Page 67 of 69 FirstFirst ... 175763646566676869 LastLast
Results 1,321 to 1,340 of 1373

Thread: The current state of Magic

  1. #1321
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Apr 2014
    Posts

    950

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  2. #1322

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    They're just missing Fadoras.

  3. #1323
    Hymn-Slinging Mod
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    3,413

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    You're trying to have it both ways, though.

    "It's important that we call each thing what it is, because the definitions of the words matter, and they are different."

    "There's no difference in legitimacy between sports and games, play what you like."

    The point of branding it as "eSports" is that it acknowledges the level of skill and dedication required to play on that stage. As fans of games, you and I understand that these streams are high-stakes and not just anyone can be on there, but there are still people who don't understand it isn't just random nerds in their basement. If those properties want to expand their audience, and capture some of the people who might watch the NFL but not the OWL, they might find it useful to take cues from franchises that are already successful.
    I'm not trying to have anything "both ways" though. The nomenclature and the "legitimacy" are not one thing. Sports might be considered by many people more "legitimate" but that is not an intrinsic quality, that is a cultural valuation. The "problem" is that no one really would take a game that as arbitrarily been renamed a sport "more seriously" because calling something doesn't make it so.

    I am willing to speculate that no one, and almost certainly almost no one, would consider a game more legitimate simply because someone slapped a label that says "sport" on it. You either feel like games have intrinsic value, as such, or you don't. Some people find that sports, even traditionally defined, have no intrinsic value, as a matter of fact. Some one these people are the same ones who value games, as such. So, no, it isn't just an issue of nomenclature that gives us the valuation, it's our personal values.

    So, marketing thinks it can put the cart before the horse and go on it's merry way, but it doesn't work like that. People who have a contempt for games do so, not because they aren't called sports, but because the intrinsic valuation of the constitute defining elements. They don't value sports because they are called sports. That is absurd. So, attempting to "rebrand" something as such is absurd as marketing deciding that chocolate cakes sell better than vanilla ones, so let's just call both chocolate and they'll be equal in the eyes of consumers, right? I mean, what is the flavor of chocolate anyway, but a mere sensation we can't define with objective certainly. So, here at Nonsese Cake Factory, we want you to know that all flavors take skill and effort to make and we don't want your intrinsic valuation to cloud you in thinking that one might have intrinsic properties the other doesn't.

    It's also nonsensical to think that people like traditional sport solely for the fact that they require skill. Although could be a part of some people's enjoyment, another part of sport that appeals to people is the simplicity, prima facie. The world's most popular sport, football (AKA soccer for us more contemptible), is fantastically simple. Just kick this here ball into that there net and don't use your hands doing so. Out of that rises a much more interesting game (for most people, not us Yanks). And that is a key to it's success. The same reason why people decry so-and-so's "terrible" play, despite that fact that there is essentially a zero percent chance the arm-chair commentator could have been on the field in the first place, let alone been able to make the "right call" in the moment.

    Why doesn't Magic have the same appeal? Because it is much less intuitive, much harder to conceptualize and with it's fantasy styling, seems "childish" to people. Again, you can rail against that, but it is what it is. And none of that is mitigated by simply calling something a sport. It goes the same for any other game that people attempt to "rebrand" as a sport. In fact, the very need to "reband" tells you all you really need to know about it's very nature. No one "branded" football as a sport, it just is. If Magic was a sport, it would be, there wouldn't be a need to rebrand it, any more than you'd rebrand flavors of cake.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  4. #1324
    Hymn-Slinging Mod
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    3,413

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    They're just missing Fadoras.
    I own a fedora, and then idiots had to cavort and ruin it. Not that I was going to wear it often, but now there is no way to wear it ever.

    Not to mention, Call of Duty 4? When I told our kids the last call of Duty I played was 2, they looked at me as if I told them I worked the Pyramids in Giza.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  5. #1325

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I own a fedora, and then idiots had to cavort and ruin it. Not that I was going to wear it often, but now there is no way to wear it ever.

    Not to mention, Call of Duty 4? When I told our kids the last call of Duty I played was 2, they looked at me as if I told them I worked the Pyramids in Giza.
    Unless you're over 55 the fedora was ruined before you were born.

  6. #1326
    Hymn-Slinging Mod
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    3,413

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Unless you're over 55 the fedora was ruined before you were born.
    Yeah, likely, I just didn't know,
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  7. #1327
    plays Mountains
    Ace/Homebrew's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2011
    Location

    Philadelphia Area
    Posts

    2,257

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    Ugh... I guess I'm this kind of gamer:



    - Super Mario Bros 3
    - Mega Man 2

  8. #1328
    Member
    Barook's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    Germany, Germering, Munich
    Posts

    7,490

    Re: The current state of Magic

    eSports is horribly overused anyway. Hasbro even called D&D an eSport, for fucks sake.

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Why doesn't Magic have the same appeal? Because it is much less intuitive, much harder to conceptualize and with it's fantasy styling, seems "childish" to people. Again, you can rail against that, but it is what it is. And none of that is mitigated by simply calling something a sport. It goes the same for any other game that people attempt to "rebrand" as a sport. In fact, the very need to "reband" tells you all you really need to know about it's very nature. No one "branded" football as a sport, it just is. If Magic was a sport, it would be, there wouldn't be a need to rebrand it, any more than you'd rebrand flavors of cake.
    Obviously, the solution to the whole "Magic is not a sport" is motorcycles. Card games on motorcycles.



    On a more serious note:

    WotC dropped the MSRP

    You can fully expect price hikes rather sooner or later. Hasbro needs to whore out MtG some more considering the rest of their core business is horribly failing ever since Toys"R"Us went belly up.

  9. #1329
    Hymn-Slinging Mod
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    3,413

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    eSports is horribly overused anyway. Hasbro even called D&D an eSport, for fucks sake.
    This is largely my point. If the criterion for sport gets lowered so far that we use it for any activity, of what use is the word?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Obviously, the solution to the whole "Magic is not a sport" is motorcycles. Card games on motorcycles.
    Well, that would certainly be something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    On a more serious note:

    WotC dropped the MSRP

    You can fully expect price hikes rather sooner or later. Hasbro needs to whore out MtG some more considering the rest of their core business is horribly failing ever since Toys"R"Us went belly up.
    Well, I am definitely not knowledgeable enough to say, so what are the overall effects of this in the long term? Was MSRP really holding the price?
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  10. #1330
    A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.
    PirateKing's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2011
    Location

    BEST JERSEY
    Posts

    1,731

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Well, I am definitely not knowledgeable enough to say, so what are the overall effects of this in the long term? Was MSRP really holding the price?
    Worst case is it will let them distribute direct to Amazon and Walmart for different a different price point than smaller local shops, pushing their margins even narrower.

    MSRP is really only an American thing, so more likely their aim is it'll let them distribute better in Europe and stuff. But it's not like any of the limited edition products were sold at MSRP anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  11. #1331

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    My point with this is that whatever distinction you choose to make between them is wholly arbitrary
    It's not, there are lines between what words mean. Just because you like using the phrase 'professional sport' more than 'professional gaming' doesn't change the meaning of the words themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    and things like high-level shooters and MOBAs demand exceptional physical abilities, even if the specific list of them doesn't include "running."
    Again, I used several very specific traits that encompass the words 'Athletic' and 'Sport'. Right from a dictionary.

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    It's important to increase the legitimacy of it, even if you think it's distinct from sport, because there are people that deride it for no reason other than, "oh it's just video games, lol @ nerds."
    Why is important? To who? I personally could care less This, frankly, sounds more like you projecting your insecurities onto others, as most here with real input haven't reduced it to 'running good gaming bad'

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    Hand eye coordination? Teamwork? Communication? Dexterity?
    Again, I provided very specific examples of things that constitute athleticism. From a dictionary. Not that these things don't require skill, of course. But they are not athletic in nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    There's clearly physical prowess there, even if it's not "aerobic." That distinction is arbitrary.
    It's not arbitrary...again, it's directly from the dictionary.

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    Yes, in the case of Magic, I think "Sport" is a stretch. However, "eSport," in the sense of, "competitive game you can watch online," is perfectly legitimate, and not an abuse.
    They have the same word in it. The phrase 'eSport' is an abuse anyway. To hark back to the same example, no one calls competitive poker an e-sport even though it's also a 'competitive game you can watch online'


    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    I don't think [the legitimacy of a competitive gaming enterprise] is [questionable], and that is the crux of my argument. People still making arbitrary disctinctions about competition are why professional games are still looking upon with derision - my coworkers can't perceive the parallels between watching the League finals and watching the NFL, despite the fact that they are both teams of dudes playing a game. Just because some of the dudes are big and run doesn't mean the other guys don't dedicate themselves, train, etc and provide entertainment.
    I meant legitimacy in more of a financial sense. The enterprise as a whole seems to make money. Nothing like a monster like the NFL/MLB or the like, but it seems to support itself at least. I also don't think people look upon 'pro gamers' with derision, at least I don't get that impression. And no one says that professional gamers don't "dedicate themselves, train, etc, and provide entertainment". I mean, I'm just gonna point at South Korea in general and leave it at that.

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    my coworkers can't perceive the parallels between watching the League finals and watching the NFL
    this bit I wanted to touch on specifically, partially because the following is much more opinionated than the rest.
    Frankly, I can't blame them. Professional gaming in general is boring as all fuck to a layman. Unless one is deeply invested/involved with most of these games, if you've never played them before they're borderline impossible to understand. Add to this the fact that games like League, Overwatch and friends change month-by-month? Insanity to someone involved with professional sports. Please note that I'm not much of a traditional sports strategist, but I don't think that strategies get invalidated as often as they do in competitive games due to the rules of the game changing. Football (hell, American and otherwise) likely has strategies that have been good for decades, and yet the game doesn't get stale.

  12. #1332
    It's not easy being green

    Join Date

    Jul 2010
    Posts

    1,635

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Not to mention, Call of Duty 4? When I told our kids the last call of Duty I played was 2, they looked at me as if I told them I worked the Pyramids in Giza.
    I was just going to ask if my hobby's prehistoric: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9tv_-8sBkY (Super Street Fighter II Turbo, or ST for short)


    Quote Originally Posted by niv View Post
    this bit I wanted to touch on specifically, partially because the following is much more opinionated than the rest.
    Frankly, I can't blame them. Professional gaming in general is boring as all fuck to a layman. Unless one is deeply invested/involved with most of these games, if you've never played them before they're borderline impossible to understand. Add to this the fact that games like League, Overwatch and friends change month-by-month? Insanity to someone involved with professional sports. Please note that I'm not much of a traditional sports strategist, but I don't think that strategies get invalidated as often as they do in competitive games due to the rules of the game changing. Football (hell, American and otherwise) likely has strategies that have been good for decades, and yet the game doesn't get stale.
    There's probably a reason Counter-Strike stays popular. Simple enough to understand and teams have room for self-expression so game-overhauling patches are very rare.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  13. #1333
    Member

    Join Date

    Aug 2015
    Location

    The woods again
    Posts

    1,096

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Nobody remembers Total Annihilation. Nothing more satisfying than the old "ARM VERMIN HAVE BEEN EXTERMINATED."
    All Spells Primer under construction: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...Tl7utWpLo0/pub
    PM me if you want to contribute!
    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    Just in time for Valentines Day 💝

    Roses are red, violets are blue
    Omae wa mou shindeiru
    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Quick question, are you also still waiting for the great pumpkin it did you finally pick it in once December hit?
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  14. #1334
    Some dipshit of a Moderator.
    Dice_Box's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2013
    Location

    A Tabernacle in some random Valley.
    Posts

    4,843

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Well, I am definitely not knowledgeable enough to say, so what are the overall effects of this in the long term? Was MSRP really holding the price?
    No idea, I think the better question is "Who here buys sealed product"? Outside of draft I don't.

    On that topic, this set has been sweet for draft.

    I love that image. What about those of us who's thought was "System Shock, Halo CE and Golden Eye"? Hell Alex Kid anyone? Duck Hunt. Wow I am starting to feel old.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  15. #1335
    Member
    Matsu's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2016
    Location

    Forever dark woods
    Posts

    203

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    No idea, I think the better question is "Who here buys sealed product"? Outside of draft I don't.

    On that topic, this set has been sweet for draft.

    I love that image. What about those of us who's thought was "System Shock, Halo CE and Golden Eye"? Hell Alex Kid anyone? Duck Hunt. Wow I am starting to feel old.
    I love Duck Hunt. Jack Nicholson's joker should have Super Mario, Contra, Duck hunt, Zelda, Castlevania... come on best games ever.
    Now i use a real gun to shoot duck btw.

    Boys are boys, they just change their toys ;)

  16. #1336
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

    Join Date

    Jan 2013
    Location

    French Riviera
    Posts

    1,209

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Ugh... I guess I'm this kind of gamer:



    - Super Mario Bros 3
    - Mega Man 2
    What about Eye of the beholder / dungeon Master / Some bitmap brothers' games?? :) (Yeah i started early).

  17. #1337
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

    Join Date

    Jan 2013
    Location

    French Riviera
    Posts

    1,209

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    Nobody remembers Total Annihilation. Nothing more satisfying than the old "ARM VERMIN HAVE BEEN EXTERMINATED."
    Who remembers Dune II which was the precursor of real time strategy games?

  18. #1338
    Member
    Matsu's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2016
    Location

    Forever dark woods
    Posts

    203

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Lands of Lore anyone?
    Warcraft 1 or C&C and the one and only Kane!

  19. #1339
    It's not easy being green

    Join Date

    Jul 2010
    Posts

    1,635

    Re: The current state of Magic

    RA1 DOS installer
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  20. #1340
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

    Join Date

    Jan 2013
    Location

    French Riviera
    Posts

    1,209

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
    Lands of Lore anyone?
    Warcraft 1 or C&C and the one and only Kane!
    Good times!

    My first real video game experiences were on CHoplifter, load runner and spy vs spy on Apple 2c. It's incredible to imagine that i had such a good time on those games which were graphically speaking horrible :)
    But I can compare it to my first game of magic with a deck playing Sea Serpent, Basilisk and Sengir vampire, back in 1994.... Mostly crappy cards, but good times :)
    Last edited by Tylert; 02-19-2019 at 08:41 AM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)