I like how people keep mentioning Stradivarius as if it defends the RP when really it stands as an example of the arbitrary nature of what we as humans deem of value. Trained violinists will fail blinded tests on identifying the Strad vs a modern instrument, either by sound or feeling, time and again - it is literally just a status symbol and is in no way a requisite for playing any particular genre of music in a meaningful way.
Now maybe if the world had gotten together and decided to falsely limit the number of violins ever made, there might be an argument there.
If you don't think that Magic: the Gathering has certain key printings of cards that have a value which is recognized beyond their intrinsic value to the game itself *without the Reprint Policy in place* then you have to concede the point that eventually the investment you perceive in your collection will come to mean absolutely nothing. Magic is not a game that is designed to persist in perpituity with a limited number of pieces like Poker or Chess. The emphasis on Standard over all other formats acknowledges this. The RP exists as a means to maintain this status quo, in concert with the Pro Tour to generate interest in Standard in the first place. If Standard can't stay relevant or profitable then the rest of the game tanks, and the new cards quit coming, and the RP means nothing because the game is dead. At that point, the value of the cards as they apply to historical interest will become apparent, and to continue the metaphor, we will then see who has a Stradivarius and who has a First Act.
Originally Posted by Dissection
Even if the WotC didn't make some promise quarter a century ago, I wouldn't be playing painlands instead of duals, and I wouldn't limit my gaming experience and the hundreds of hours of playing to some kind of casual attempts with Llanowar Wastes and Coastal Tower. Definitely not. Btw, the duals did cost 10 DM back in 1996, and the ppl already bitched, and rightfully so, as the game was already kind of expensive, considering that it's just cardboard. As WotC needs to sell packs (and thus the Standart tournaments), it's understandable that duals and stuff were excluded from the 4th Edition, but I still hate that. RL leaves no scrubs behind, trust me, I saw a few lgs. What the RL have done for me, and that's the only thing that matters to me, as we're living in a competitive world of personal interests, is that the game is expensive.
Everybody who's not blind to the world around him, and who's still clinging to his expensive cards, is delusional. I expect the scene to crumble for two reasons:
1) overall trends in gaming/MtG do not favor the anachronism that TCGs present, and namely Eternal is an uncertain affair; I may be wrong on this, though.
Seeing what the usual gaming is centered about, I'm less than happy that I should be paying insane amount of money for it. And translating the price of cardboard in the necessary work, I came to a conclusion that the only way I can afford, justify and play MtG, is if the prices fall well below the 1996 levels. The only way how I'd be willing to own and play a Tier1 Legacy Blue deck is if it would cost somewhere around 100 USD. That's the appropriate price for a dozen of 1:2 drops/year in a hipsters-stoners settings.
The nowadays MtG is worse in some aspects then it was two decades ago (especially the gimmicky Legacy gaming that turned into Joker, in response Joker, in response my Joker...) so I sold most of my stuff while it was still expensive. Granted, I could have waited a year or two longer (I had some expectations and they were not correct), but I didn't want be the one to virtually burn hundreds of bucks. Now I'm finishing (albeit slowly, as I depend on middleman to avoid the stink-pits) the butchering with a hopeful result to not have a single card by the end of the year (or the next one; it's all about middleman's tempo and control)
2) overall trends in geopolitics make me sure that it's much more reasonable to convert the cardboard into some heavier and reliable kind of treasure; I'm correct on this one.
I could be paranoid, and yes, I was wrong two or three years ago when my expectations about the near future of Europe were not fullfilled, but this erroneous estimate of mine doesn't really matter, as the general tensions are more and more visible with every passing day, and the continent is heading for the catastrophe. I'm not against having MtG-fun even in the trenches, but seriously, what's happening in past few years reminds me of Titanic and Dunkirk 44/45 scenarios.
I pretty damn know that once the shtf the last of my troubles would be the fate of my playset of Goyfs, but on the other hand, this quadriga is already unsuitable to move me into job, and the less waste I'd be having around, and the more real valuables I'd be having in my hand, the brighter the future will be for me and those around me.
It won't be RL abolishment (mainly as nobody's going to follow it with massive reprints, least of all WotC) that will devalue your collection/stocks, but an hybrid war that's about to start in five years and that will devastate the whole world as we know it now, inflated hobbies included.
And verily I say unto thee: a people that permit what happened in past 2.5 millenia, deserve no less than their Library of Alexandria burnt.
When your Eurabian RL cards start being devalued you can ship them to the US.
I totally understand the Reserved List and I'm behind it about 95%. There's a huge about of absolutely terrible cards on there that nobody wants reprinted. WOTC is clearly experimenting with a more flexible and well-thought-out reprint policy, with annual Masters sets, Masterpiece edition cards, etc. I feel that this may lead them to becoming more flexible on the list, and being willing to reinstate the "premium-only" loophole.
They would have to be very careful with this. Perhaps that they would use the Masterpiece series exclusively (no FTV, Duel Deck, Judge printings like before), where cards are inserted into packs at a roughly 1.5 per case rate. Imagine a standard set with Dual Land Masterpieces. I can't think of anyone who wouldn't be excited to buy those packs, and they've shown that the Masterpiece series does not hurt the value of original cards at all. A Masterpiece-only change to the Reserve List would generate massive profits for WOTC in booster sales and keep the collector values of original ABUR printings intact, all while releasing more copies of RL cards into the world and promoting format accessibility by giving newer players the chance to open a Masterpiece and trade into a real deck.
I can get behind this.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
And Expeditions are so ugly that most people probably still will want to play their revised, hence not really tanking demand for these
The whole argument that was being discussed was that Stan said he purchased these cards a certain price based on the premise that their value wouldn't tank. If this was truly the only issue, that of protecting the money one put into the cards, then the only value reference point one is interested in (and doesn't want to dip too much under) is the one at the time of the buy, and any up or down variation above this level is then absolutely no basis for arguing for or against anything. This is of course if that is indeed the only issue at hand.
It'd also be great if you could stop referencing Stradivarius when it has been demonstrated numerous times how inadequate and misguided this is (answers that on the other hand you have conveniently ignored).
This is one those moments where I'd be wanting to reference the "not sure if trolling" futurama meme.
Aside from that, you don't really have to answer personal questions that were asked to someone else. Or if you do, at least have the courtesy to check and follow the previous discussion and the context they were asked. Otherwise, just expect to be ignored next time.
That's great. Abolishing the RL definitely does not, in absolutely any way, mean "mass printing said cards until their circulation is that of basic lands". Absolishing the RL just means that - WotC saying they'd be willing to *some day* reprint *some amount* of *some of these cards*. That's all. If you'd be fine with this, then we agree.I can get behind this.
My point is, let's not 100% kill an idea just because there's a way to imagine it being done stupidly - that's true of every idea, every solution, to every problem.
Last edited by ParkerLewis; 03-06-2017 at 05:22 PM.
Too bad people who would be okay with "expeditions" duals are vastly outnumbered by the entitled GIMME MUH DUALS FOR $10 BUT EVEN THEN THAT'S TOO EXPENSIVE BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE $40 TO AFFORD A PLAYSET BUT LEMME GO DRAFT FNM EVERY WEEK FOR A YEAR crowd.
WotC would also need to adjust the drop rate so that they can have them in every set, but at a lower drop rate so not too many enter the market and then crash the price of the existing RL examples.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
What do you guys think would happen to the meta if tomorrow, instead of ending the RL policy, they just banned every card on the RL for Legacy?
I think you should take your shitty idea back to Seth Olive.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
The important point is that caps lock posts on internet forums are of no effect on anyone or any company. I personally doubt there'd be such a huge crowd anyway (after all, we're talking product not directed at their main market which is Standard), but even if there was, its existence would be as significant as pissing in the wind. No reason to worry here.
I don't think they'd need to have them in every set, but so be it. Any number is feasible.
Wouldn't this be the best of both worlds? Those of us looking for new blood in the format and a more moderate reprint policy get what we want and those who support the current policy because it keeps out the hoi polloi get what they want. No one here (as myself and others have pointed out multiple times) seems to be in favor of massive reprints that render the Reserved List cards worthless, just that they become affordable enough to breath new life into the format.
This, 100%.
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is NOT a Legacy deck.
I'm sure that even WOTC will realize that they don't want to crash prices but just decrease them. Seems like a win/win all around, casuals get a chance of getting dual lands for their EDH decks, people who want to buy into legacy get cheaper cards and existing players can extend the number of decks that they can play and ideally there will be more events. Even stores without a large collection of duals get to make some $ selling people packs. I guess the larger stores which may have a large supply of ABUR duals might lose out on it a bit, but I think that is for the greater good. The point is that the ABUR duals and any of the other valuable RL stuff will retain it's price to some degree.
The "investments" that some people consider their cards to be might even grow in price since the original RL stuff will be kind of a premium product. Although i'm not sure why these people are choosing to put their stock into cards rather than 401ks, stocks, property, etc like many of the older players that they enjoy playing against do.
I never even proposed it as an idea. I mainly posed the question as a thought experiment.
Would it tank RL prices? (Intuitively the answer is yes but Vintage being dead didn't really hurt power; although that might be an exception)
What would the meta look like? Obviously it would cause a shift to the land bases seen in Modern. Seems like it would kill some fringe decks like MUD. Some decks would lose some interest one-ofs.
Edit: found an interesting article on the subject: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...ed-list-legacy
Probably a midrange hellscape, why not just play Modern at that point? Even if Modern is not a fun format for some Legacy players it at least gives those people something to play. If you hate Brainstorm, Counterspell, and faster combo decks then people can just play Modern and let Legacy players enjoy their format with fewer creatures and its own flavor interaction (on the stack instead of in combat)
Vintage isn't dead either, by the way.
Umm...Counter Spell and Brainstorm (and FOW, Daze, Wastland, Rishadan Port and a whole host of other cards for that matter) aren't on the reserve list.
I don't think it would really be Modern. That article broke it down pretty well. Mana bases switch from duals to shocks. MUD and Aluren die. Some decks lose some non-essential toys here and there. It really wouldn't change things all that much. Besides killing off two really fun decks I kind of like slowing down combo by a turn/half-turn which might actually give real aggro decks a chance. As it stands now Legacy "aggro" is really combo and traditional aggro decks are tempo/mid-range that play a lot of disruption. Not that there's anything wrong with that setup.
That being said, I'm not exactly in favor of doing a mass RL banning but its an interesting idea to solve a looming and existential problem.
I really don't think Legacy is facing any existential crisis. Over the next few years there may be less tournaments but even Vintage has tournaments and I think it's a much less popular format than Legacy. When Legacy tournaments start allowing proxies that will be a sign that things have changed but that doesn't seem to be happening yet.
I see proxies as a better answer than begging wotc to break their promise.
The format was trialled for a while, known as "Eternal" when Eternal Masters was announced. It's reddit subfourm is dead and from all reports I have been given it turned into DnT the format.
In short it was not something the Legacy players wanted to move too, what's the point in playing a stripped down version of the format you already play, and the Modern players didn't want to buy into something with absolutely zero support. It was DOA. Though there was one event run out of my local store. I didn't go, but from what I am today it was 3 DnT and a Fish deck in the top 4. All legacy decks straight ported over.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Why not just ban every card in rotation?
Good for sales and new players can buy a new set booster and be right up there with the veterans, collection-wise!
The first 6 months of the format will be 1-booster sealed deck only.
They can change the RL wording to their liking whenever they want. A new iteration could easily become "never to be reprinted again with old frame or art", maybe Foil only, to make them Masterpieces.
If expeditions could make the PoS Battle for Zendikar was the best-selling set of all time, just imagine what Masterpiece Duals would do to the sales. IIRC, somebody has done the math regarding the number of Masterpieces - they're suprisingly low. For the print run of a current Standard in-print set, each specific Masterpiece might only have ca. 7000-8000 copies. So the increase in actual duals isn't even that high as one might suspect.
I don't think we're far from that point, given how much WotC has fucked up Standard & player numbers are stagnating. Modern Master 2017 is clearly a new direction in terms of reprints, both in terms of what gets reprinted and the rumored significantly increased print run. The new CEO Chris Cocks might be responsible for this new direction, but who knows. Fun fact: According to the interview he gave for the MTGO Championship last weekend, he started playing Magic in 1993. As an actual Magic player of the first hour, he might have a different view in the RL than other CEOs.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
