At least when I started as a teenager I pretty much just insta-devoured any descriptions of how game rules interactions worked and liked cards doing cool stuff (Granted, starting during Time Spiral / Lorwyn era prooobably has something to do with it). Chances are damn good you wouldn't have to teach the rules for long.Originally Posted by nedleeds
Snip - Clean it up and repost if you want. Hostile posts (direct or indirect) will not be tolerated. -J
Last edited by Jander78; 03-07-2017 at 10:57 PM.
^ sums up my thoughts in harsher language than I would have used. It's about being on an equal level with those around me. Legacy is an MTG rite of passage, not a guarantee that everyone who's ever cracked a pack of Theros is entitled to. And the format, while small in playerbase size, has much more quality to it because of this. We all know what it takes to save up for that final dual. Because of that, we all have a deeper respect for the format. I don't want to play against someone who bitched their way to owning Grixis Delver and then quit the format because they're bad at Magic. One of the reasons why I enjoy going to the occasional Legacy event is to catch up with players that I haven't seen in a while due to adult circumstance. I form friendships with the Legacy players I'm matched up against. But (when I was playing Modern) I rarely had such a connection with my opponents.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
I talked to my LGS owner. He says that the amount they're getting is only a small increase compared to the previous Modern Masters.
I've actually played against a lot more 13 year olds (or people roughly around that age) playing Legacy than I have playing Modern.
I also started just before Time Spiral and it was an absolute feast for me. I loved that block and its many rules and references.
Every single set since then feels bland and I'd love to see a little bit of a return to that kind of mechanical-focus and clear love-of-the-game. Wotc was brave to make Time Spiral block and they've been playing it safe ever since. Even though it was a set full of in-joke references it still had appeal to new players and I think the people designing those cards were expressing their love for the game while referencing their favorite old cards and it came through to players.
Those weren't actually reprints though. Wotc either included Power 9 that they had held onto or bought P9 on the secondary market to include in packs. They were also radically more rare than Masterpieces.
Unfortunately, wotc already tried to outsmart the RL with foil reprints and they stopped doing it. I definitely think they were pressured into doing so. Masterpiece-rarity white-borded duals would be reasonable imo but it breaks the RL.
Proxies, proxies, proxies! Almost none of us care about whatever sanctioned tournaments are tracking anymore. If local game store tournament attendance is falling then it's time to go un-sanctioned and allow a few proxies.
That must be an anomaly then because the vast majority of Legacy players are mid-to-late 20's and older.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
I think legacy wise I've played against maybe one person under 18 in years. And that was the brother of someone who had basically every card in existence (he played 4 tabernacle mono green lands one week for fun). But I do remember playing against more than enough high school or middle school kids in standard that I really didn't want to interact with for multiple reasons. It's just a matter of maturity, not riff raff. And understanding of the game. I already have to explain how things work with people who play regularly, I don't want to explain every single card and how they all work together on my off night
It was rare, but it did happen, and more so than in Modern. I don't remember playing against a 13-year-old even once in Modern, but in Legacy? Yeah, it happened a few times.
That's on him. My LGS owner said he was getting something like 160 cases of MM3. He told the distributor he'd take as much as he could get, while others seem to play it safe.
He's sold out of MM2 and EMA, so there's no reason, even before spoilers showed the set is legit, he wouldn't want to get as much as possible because, no matter how bad it might be (MM2), it still sells.
I've been to more than one game store where they allowed you to drink beer during the event. I had no idea that WotC was against it. back in the old days, getting back to the trainstation from the gaming store took me twice as long as arriving from it on an FNM draft evening on more than one occasion. It's true, no kids there either.
I have literally never been to an event where beer wasn't on the card.
Well to be really honest there was GP Utrecht were Heineken was sold on the venue, but Dutch folks are crazy anyway.
Heineken? Talking Duvel here, at 2 euro per bottle. Those were the days.
That, to me, is an issue - how do we ensure that the former happens without the latter coming to pass?
And that's why the success of EMA was so important - it demonstrates that there is an economic incentive for WotC to relax the Reserve List policy (which most decidedly affects stupid cards, and is somewhat arbitrary in its nature). So here would be my p[roposal for the change, and I'd like some feedback into this:
1) Modify the Reserve List to affect only the sets affected by Chronicles and Alpha and Beta;
2) Reinstate the 'Premium' loophole;
3) give a hard timeframe for such a change to be effective from (for example, first block of 2019);
In my opinion, that would settle most of the complaints regarding the Reserve List, whilst preserving, as much as possible, the concerns of the collectors.
Thoughts and critiques are, as always, appreciated for such a monumental idea.
As much as I like the idea about fading out the list, it is just not something WotC wants.
This is the reason why WotC does not bother to care. The price of the on-list cards is more affected by its playability than collectibility. Having a look at the recent history, SCG popularising Legacy, WotC popularising Commander, and MO popularising Vintage (and Legacy/Commander) are the main reasons behind the price creep. One notable exception is the 9394 elitism which plays only on the collectible axis. Note that none of the format will be supported by WotC in paper form. WotC could make money otherwise, sure, but only limited unless they let the format grow steadily. As much as we want to see the format grow, it may not be in the best interest for WotC (see Modern).
Back to topic, paper Legacy is a grown-up child now. The parent will no longer buy us toys, but we can make our own toys or at least proxies. Sure, they are illegible for sanctioned tournaments, but why attend sanctioned tournaments in the first place? The success of Commander is a good lesson. As long as there is an online Legacy scene, the paper format will survive worldwide.
On the Sep 2011 Ban List Updates,
Maybe we need to talk about valuing cards so we're all on the same page. I feel maybe the schism of our views might be sourced there. Take for example Mox Diamond: in my eyes I see the relevant rules text stating If Mox Diamond would enter the battlefield, you may discard a land card instead. If you do, put Mox Diamond onto the battlefield. If you don't, put it into its owner's graveyard. Tap: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. It seems like perhaps others instead read This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private. Which in this moment has some merit to it. But if that's your basis for value, then I recommend locking that sucker in and stopping by your local shop and trading in your art by Dan Frazier for art by Joseph Duplessis and putting that into your sleeve instead. Sharpie MoxD on it just so everyone is clear what it is. But I'm here for the game, and my basis of value will never change. Dual lands are good cards, that's why I buy them, so I can play a game with good cards. If the bottom falls out on me, my collection doesn't spontaneously combust. My 75 is just as playable as the day before, and I'll still have 100% of the fun I had playing it. Playing it more often? Gawrsh.
And then for all those talking about investments and tossing around stock trading lingo, let's grow up. Because here of all places we should be honest with each other. You can't slide in that "you're fiscally responsible" into claims that you "spent thousands of dollars on cardboard". We've all dug ourselves into comically deep holes for a children's game. The only way to come out of this looking like a responsible adult is if you got played the game on the schoolyard early nineties or just randomly inherit some godly collection. But they're lucky, and any advice from then is as Bo Burnham said, "is like a lottery winner telling you, ‘Liquidize your assets, buy Powerball tickets, it works!'". But for the rest of us, who even if like myself bought my blue duals for $100 each back in the day, I won't attempt to claim that wasn't silly thing to do. But I'll tell you, I enjoy this game more than the money I spent on it, that's why I bought it. That's got to be the reason you buy anything. If you're "investment" is in Magic cards, that's a joke. Go out into the real world without big daddy WotC protecting you from failure and invest there. If you can't cut it there, then come to grips that you're just not a successful investor, and piss off from this game.
Last edited by Dice_Box; 03-08-2017 at 10:44 AM.
Do any of the people defending the RL own cards like goyf, Liliana, Imperial Recruiter, Rishadan Port, Imperial Seal, Mana Drain? Why do you own these cards because tomorrow they could be massively reprinted!!
If you are only buying Duals because you trust in WoTC not to reprint them anymore rather than for playing Legacy, how do you go about reprintable expensive cards than?? Or are you only playing 93/94 format?
Price obviously has some effect on who's playing Legacy, but don't forget:
- Younger players probably want to grind and be semipros, which Legacy doesn't really lead to.
- Younger players probably don't have any nostalgia for old cards. When I got back into MtG in 2014, I picked Legacy because it let me play the cards from when I was a kid. If you're 18, you shouldn't have any attachment to cards like Wasteland & Force of Will.
I also prefer playing against opponents my age, though that's more because they're just the guys I want to hang out with. Our scene happens to have a few mature, skilled high schoolers who I regularly lose to. There's nothing inherently bad about younger people playing Legacy; you just don't want unsociable grinders showing up.
The power to choose what happens to the RL does not sit in our hands, sadly, and it appears even if it did we would again look at the same kinds of debates we have for things like the B/R suggestions. People are not all clones of one another, they will disagree at times and as long as we can stay on the topic at hand will produce reasoned debate. I think that debate has happened and while more may be said of relevance the conversation has come to its end. We are now at the point where we are talking in circles, getting nowhere and we are not doing anything constructive. This is not the first time this thread has become a political conversation and that does not really surprise me. I see it repeating with no benefit to the site as a whole and it is for this reason I am now going to close this thread.
I would like to thank those of you who disagree with me on the List. I know your views are not popular and thus I am sure you knew you were likely going to be on the receiving end of some uncomfortable discussion. I still do not agree that the list should stay, but I am glad to see this was not an echo chamber.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
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