Can't lose Gideon

[mistercakes]

Wanted to start a new thread as it looks like it's taking up a bunch of space in the new set thread.

Original thought process: Cards that have conditional: "lose the game" can be ignored with Gideon's 3rd ability. (like platinum angel)
http://mythicspoiler.com/akh/cards/g...thetrials.html

This prompted immediate use of Pact cycle, but other cards like this exist as well.

Final Fortune (instant) and its portal copies Last Chance and Warrior's Oath (albeit sorceries) take an additional turn, but lose at the end of the next turn.

after proposing this idea @noctular came up with the first list:

// 60 Maindeck
// 3 Creature
3 Snapcaster Mage

// 22 Instant
4 Final Fortune
4 Pact of Negation
4 Pact of the Titan
2 Angel's Grace
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

// 19 Land
2 Plateau
4 Arid Mesa
2 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Island

// 4 Planeswalker
4 Gideon of the Trials

// 12 Sorcery
4 Last Chance
4 Warrior's Oath
4 Gitaxian Probe




I'd like to propose another variation on this:


// 60 Maindeck
// 2 Creature
2 Snapcaster Mage

// 24 Instant
4 Final Fortune
4 Pact of Negation
4 Pact of the Titan
4 Angel's Grace
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

// 2 Artifact
2 Isochron Scepter


// 17 Land
1 Plateau
2 Arid Mesa
2 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Island

// 4 Planeswalker
4 Gideon of the Trials

// 11 Sorcery
4 Last Chance
4 Ponder
1 Warrior's Oath
2 Temporal Mastery


Still hasn't been tested yet! But will run a few games over the next week or two. Would love to have some other input from other players as well.

[Julian23]

Spoils of the Vault for additional recklessness. 12 Time Walks, 4 Demonic Tutors in Legacy, ezy pzy.

[mistercakes]

damnit, spoils is great here. better than demonic consultation! i feel like a deck with so many colors wants something like mox diamond or at least lotus petal.

[Noctalor]

The first problem I noticed while testing is that casting a spell and then chaining walks is a pain, I think this deck needs a manabase closer to Team America, rather than one close to Miracles in order to support our plan properly.

More real cantrips are surely needed, so is safe to say that Ponders should replace the Gitaxian Probes in my list.

I also think that 8 walks is more than enought already, we can save 100 bucks and say godbye to Warrior's Oath, snapcaster are going to provide us with the last walks needed in order to close the game.

I am not sure if the deck should go completely on the Gideon route or play less suicide cards, a list I was trying is

// 60 Maindeck
// 5 Creature
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

// 23 Instant
4 Final Fortune
3 Pact of Negation
2 Pact of the Titan
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Snare

// 20 Land
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
2 Plateau
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Island

// 5 Planeswalker
4 Gideon of the Trials
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

This list is covering most of the points I made previously, and it's running "only" 11 suicide cards, packing also some form of disruption in order to survive the early game if a fast chainwalk is not possible.

Is also reasonable to try a list without blue, it would greatly improve the manabase problem, and Blood Moons could be added, if we do so the best ways to ensure we get a Gideon are:
- Running graces for redundancy, maybe also shepters
- Running Call the Gatewatch
- Running cards able to fix our draws, WR can still play top, nahiri, scroll rack (land tax?)

An example could look like:

// 60 Maindeck
// 13 Artifact
4 Mox Diamond
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Scroll Rack
1 Isochron Scepter

// 4 Enchantment
4 Land Tax

// 14 Instant
4 Final Fortune
4 Pact of Negation
4 Pact of the Titan
2 Angel's Grace

// 20 Land
4 Arid Mesa
2 Plateau
4 Plains
4 Mountain
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
2 Rugged Prairie

// 5 Planeswalker
4 Gideon of the Trials
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

// 4 Sorcery
4 Last Chance

[morgan_coke]

You still need ways to find Gideon. Intuition is on color, cheap, and useful for finding win cons/time walks after you've got him.

[Whitefaces]

I wouldn't really call Intuition cheap, 3 mana is a lot.

As boring as it is, maybe this deck could benefit from a SDT/CB and Terminus/StP shell? These buy you time, filter and protect Gideon.

[Julian23]

I don't think you can afford to play post-board Intuition in Legacy anymore. Especially not when it's for the make-it/break-it card of your deck.

[mistercakes]

i do like the idea of running spoils. maybe a BRW shell would be effective. You could also run dark confidant as a win condition since life total is only partially relevant and you would give yourself discard backup too. will brew another shell a little later.

[filln]

I've been brewing together something closer to a Mono White Parfait build, leaning more heavily on Isochron Scepter:

4 Gideon of the Trials
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Orim's Chant
4 Isochron Scepter
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Rest in Peace
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Faith's Shield
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Chrome Mox
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
10 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb

Mana base is still in flux. I'm not sure whether I should take out some of the mainboard hate, like Leyline of Sanctity, Ensnaring Bridge, and Rest in Peace, but I like the idea of potentially stealing some Game 1s and also overloading an opponent's non-creature permanent removal. Maybe I'll swap out some for Terminus or a catch-all answer like Council's Judgment or Oblivion Ring. I really like Faith's Shield here as it helps protect both Gideon and the Scepter. Besides the obvious Scepter+Chant route, a Scepter+Faith's Shield combo isn't too bad either.

Sideboard could have additional protection for Scepter such as Apostle's Blessing, but maybe something more flexible like Nevermore. Humility is another card I'm weighing putting main too.

I'm concurrently brewing some Mardu configurations too that make use of Final Fortune, Spoils of the Vault, etc. as mentioned above. I like my list above but I feel like it doesn't fully make use of Gideon's "can't lose" emblem. I think Gideon's place will be in a faster combo deck.

[RobNC]

Honestly I think you need more Gideons. Cut the Force (you have so few blue cards to pitch) and replace with 4x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar.

The emblem doesn't care which Gideon it is as long as it's Gideon. He's also a great win condition.

Extra turns is also a cute effect but you should probably replace some with more disruption.

[mistercakes]

i think the deck should be tried in multiple directions. for the non-"cute" versions, then the best is probably just to play in a miracles shell, as suggested earlier. hoping to have a little more fun than with that deck!

[Michael Keller]

Since we're talking Spoils, does Phyrexian Unlife get any love here?

[bruizar]

I'd lose the time walks and keep the pacts, perhaps even running slaughter pact.

[rufus]

Final Fortune + Day's Undoing is a good time, and can find Gideon in a 'pitch long' way. Sundial of the Infinite is a more durable enabler.

As mentioned in the other thread, Stifle has a different utility profile than Angel's Grace, but can do a lot of the same things.

[Claymore]

I think the deck loses to awkward things like turn 2 TNN or Goyf. I feel like the time walk effects are needed to punish an opening, or enable a win in the early game before the opponent can establish their board. If you cut Force then you lose a lot of protection, and without the extra turn effects you're just a deck that tries to win with a 4/4 Walker and elemental token.

[TLK]

These types of decks make me so happy. I'm going to try to brew something up as well.

[morgan_coke]

Do you want Jeweled Amulet, Lotus Petal, or some other kind of acceleration so you can get Gideon down turn 2? Both, especially Amulet, would also help get the WW or RR needed for Gideon and the timewalks.

Another option is to run Green for Birds of Paradise and Eternal Witness or Regrowth.

[Hanni]

I've been brewing together something closer to a Mono White Parfait build, leaning more heavily on Isochron Scepter:

4 Gideon of the Trials
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Orim's Chant
4 Isochron Scepter
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Rest in Peace
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Faith's Shield
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Chrome Mox
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
10 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb

Mana base is still in flux. I'm not sure whether I should take out some of the mainboard hate, like Leyline of Sanctity, Ensnaring Bridge, and Rest in Peace, but I like the idea of potentially stealing some Game 1s and also overloading an opponent's non-creature permanent removal. Maybe I'll swap out some for Terminus or a catch-all answer like Council's Judgment or Oblivion Ring. I really like Faith's Shield here as it helps protect both Gideon and the Scepter. Besides the obvious Scepter+Chant route, a Scepter+Faith's Shield combo isn't too bad either.

Sideboard could have additional protection for Scepter such as Apostle's Blessing, but maybe something more flexible like Nevermore. Humility is another card I'm weighing putting main too.

I'm concurrently brewing some Mardu configurations too that make use of Final Fortune, Spoils of the Vault, etc. as mentioned above. I like my list above but I feel like it doesn't fully make use of Gideon's "can't lose" emblem. I think Gideon's place will be in a faster combo deck.

Why not steal some Eskimo tech and run Snow Plains and Scrying Sheets instead of the fetchlands?

[TLK]

Now we have Glorious End as well!