Intentionally creating an infinite loop

[Beatusnox]

I know that an infinite loop that can be broken by a player who's cards are involved in the loop must eventually be broken by choosing a different choice if possible.

I could have sworn that something in the rules stated that if an infinite loop is commenced, the player who caused the loop would have to make a different choice.

This came up regarding Stuffy Doll targeting it's controller and Pariah on the stuffy doll.


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[Megadeus]

I believe the player who created the loop must say how many times he or she wants to do it, then must choose another target if there is one. If there isn't then it's infinite and the game ends in a draw

[thefringthing]

719.3. Sometimes a loop can be fragmented, meaning that each player involved in the loop performs an independent action that results in the same game state being reached multiple times. If that happens, the active player (or, if the active player is not involved in the loop, the first player in turn order who is involved) must then make a different game choice so the loop does not continue.

719.4. If a loop contains only mandatory actions, the game is a draw.

719.5. No player can be forced to perform an action that would end a loop other than actions called for by objects involved in the loop.

[Beatusnox]

Right I get the fragmented loop part, but what I mean is, once you play the doll, targeting yourself, and then pariah it, are you allowed to initiate the loop by tapping the doll? I may be misremembering but as I said in the OP I thought there was something against intentionally creating an infinite loop.

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[MaximumC]

Right I get the fragmented loop part, but what I mean is, once you play the doll, targeting yourself, and then pariah it, are you allowed to initiate the loop by tapping the doll? I may be misremembering but as I said in the OP I thought there was something against intentionally creating an infinite loop.

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There are several different kinds of loop in the game. It depends upon how the loop is being executed. If it is a completely voluntary Loop, which involves one player making decisions which lead back to the same board state then once that player has demonstrated the loop, and can prove that the loop is deterministic, then the player must propose a shortcut explaining exactly how many times they wish to execute the loop and what the resulting bored state will be.

If the loop involves multiple players each making a decision (for example if one player has the ability to put -1 -1 counters on a creature as much as they like and another player has the ability to put +1 +1 counters on a creature in response as much as they like) then you are in a fragmented loop. As I recall, a fragmented requires the active player to make a different choice to end the loop.

If the loop is being executed automatically, for example, you cast animate dead on worldgorger Dragon with no other creatures in any graveyard, then the game will end in a draw. That is, if all parts of the loop execute without any player making a decision, the loop will never end and the game can never continue.

I this is a very abbreviated discussion, and I've been tinkering with a longer article on the subject for a while which I may post later. The short answer to your question is you are allowed to and to cause any of these kind of loops. In even in the case of the infinite mandatory Loop that causes a game to draw comma it is perfectly legal to it cause this Loop and, indeed, it's a functional fall back measure in the world Gordon dragon deck

The only place you're going to get into trouble using Loops is if you involve indeterminate Loops in the process that is, you tried to execute or shortcut a loop where you cannot deterministicly explain exactly what the resulting board state will be and how many times you want to execute the loop. For some fairly complicated reasons, in this situation you cannot strictly apply the shortcut rules in a way that is fair to both players and all cases and there is a portion of the slow-play rules that specifically prohibits a player from continuing to execute a loop without cutting it every time this comes up people wrinkle at the suggestion that an indeterminate Loop is is slow play but you have to bear in mind that this particular rule doesn't suggest the player is playing slowly it's just the place in the rules where repeatedly executing a game action that would interfere with your ability to finish the tournament happens to reside.

[cdr]

Great answer MaximumC.