Shadow of the Fluctuator

[ronco]

Very helpful, thanks!
I had Street Wraith when I was testing the deck in apprentice, then when I went to actually build it I completely forgot about it.
Totally didn't think about swampcycling for fetid pools. That might be a key move that I had overlooked, in addition to mana fixing. Ideally Id replace the swamp and plains with duals but that isn't in the budget at the current time. That would allow me to pull the ash barrens for something better as well. Maybe I'll swap out them with Irrigated Farmland, Lake of the dead, and maybe a couple other cycle comes in to play tapped lands and see what happens.

Tortured existence actually might open up other avenues. Since I'm going for living death (currently), it essentially turns every creature into a cycler for B, so I might be able to run a few other key non-cyclers that have synergy with the deck as long as the mana is good. Although you mentioned it getting shadow back, I don't really see that since it has to return a creature, but if I'm missing something please let me know.

EDIT
Tortured existence is really a re-usable/spot use restless dreams, at an overall higher mana. I'll keep it in the back of my mind but I'm not sure it makes it into this particular build. Perhaps in a deck with less cycling, more of a midrange build type thing.

EDIT 2
also, burst of speed would do the trick for haste. just need to play around with the mana base to get it. Lotus petals definitely help.

[mistercakes]

empty the catacombs
could this card have a place in the deck somewhere?

i suppose this is more of a card that could see play if you don't mind passing the turn after casting fluctuator, as it's much easier to cast then. at least it's a good topdeck when the deck fizzles.

[ronco]

I think at 4 mana I'd rather just cast living death and be done with it. Restless Dreams serves a similar purpose for 1, so I don't think it really has a place, but can certainly be kept in the back pocket in case the focus of the deck shifts. But I do see your point. Seeing this after running into a dead cycle would be a godsend as shadows would be useless at that point.

And ideally, if you cast fluctuator, you want to end the game that turn. Its a sitting duck target for removal and if it does get removed, the deck stops cold, practically.

Here's the most recent deck list:

Creatures - 20:

4 Jhessian Zombies
4 Primoc Escapee
4 vile Manifestation
4 Viscera Dragger - might switch these to twisted abomination
4 Archfiend of Ifnir

Spells - 22:

4 fluctuator
4 songs of the damned
2 enlightened tutor
4 lotus petal
2 living death
3 shadow of the grave
1 restless dreams
2 Burst of Speed

Land - 18:

4 ancient tomb
4 fetid pools
4 blasted landscape
4 canyon slough
2 irrigated farmland


This build seems to be more consistent when it goes off. That said, I don't know if it was the lower tutors or what, but it seems like I get more inconsistent on getting that cycle going in the first place. As R3ndr0c pointed out, the land cycling aspect is quite handy. But I think 22 non-cycle spells plus 4 ancient tombs is the absolute max one would want to be at in terms of cycles vs non cycles. If anyone has suggestions for reducing that I'm all ears. For swamp cyclers I have 8 searchable swamps and for island cycling I have 6 searchable island (10 total combined). That might not be enough with 8 landcycler creatures if I add in the twisted abominations, but I might try removing some spells for more creatures, or find some cycling spells to replace them with but there isn't really anything that "works" in the way the deck is currently set up. A single songs of the damned or restless dreams would be all I could see cutting for more cycle cards.

I haven't put the street wraiths in yet. I am iffy with the paying life in conjunction with ancient tombs as I tend to use those to cycle if I don't have the fluctuator out yet.

This may be obvious, but my general strategy is to dig as aggressively as possible to get the fluctuator out. I've had to hard cast vile and archfiend in playtesting and it just isn't the same lol. Plus its god awful slow. But little changes here and there are making the deck slightly better each time I feel. Just need to keep testing and tweaking. I think hitting the magic number on # of cyclers and tutors will help make a good template for other variants of the deck (milling with Sphinx's Tutelage, comboing with laboratory maniac, for example).

This may seem crazy, But I was also toying with the idea of some unmask in the main as well. unfortunately that just adds to the cycle/non cycle mix in a negative way. but would sure be nice to make sure the living death/burst of speed/shadow of the grave gets through.

EDIT
Igneous Pouncer has swamp/mountain cycling and haste. Could be a consideration here too. The cycle lands come into play tapped which is a huge pain so maybe having a one off of swamp/mountain (like originally planned) might be worth it with these to make sure I have the mana fix to cast a songs/burst. Although with 4x 5/1 with haste I might not need the burst of speed after all. macetail hystrodon has haste and cycling for 3.... being able to open up 2 slots by removing the burst could be something to look into.

[rufus]

...
EDIT
Igneous Pouncer has swamp/mountain cycling and haste. Could be a consideration here too. The cycle lands come into play tapped which is a huge pain so maybe having a one off of swamp/mountain (like originally planned) might be worth it with these to make sure I have the mana fix to cast a songs/burst. Although with 4x 5/1 with haste I might not need the burst of speed after all. macetail hystrodon has haste and cycling for 3.... being able to open up 2 slots by removing the burst could be something to look into.

~~A challenge with pouncer is that fluctuator doesn't zero out the cycling cost. Maybe there's some fluctuator-less plan where it can really shine.~~ Edit: This is wrong.

An alternative to Burst of Speed is to use Rites of Initiation with the viscera dragger.

[ronco]

A challenge with pouncer is that fluctuator doesn't zero out the cycling cost. Maybe there's some fluctuator-less plan where it can really shine.

An alternative to Burst of Speed is to use Rites of Initiation with the viscera dragger.

Actually, I believe it does work with landcycling. From the oracle:
"Landcycling is a form of cycling. Any ability that triggers on a card being cycled also triggers on a card being landcycled. Any ability that stops a cycling ability from being activated also stops a landcycling ability from being activated."
more specifically:
"702.28e Typecycling is a variant of the cycling ability. “[Type]cycling [cost]” means “[Cost], Discard this card: Search your library for a [type] card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.” This type is usually a subtype (as in “mountaincycling”) but can be any card type, subtype, supertype, or combination thereof (as in “basic landcycling”).
702.28f Typecycling abilities are cycling abilities, and typecycling costs are cycling costs. Any cards that trigger when a player cycles a card will trigger when a card is discarded to pay an activation cost of a typecycling ability. Any effect that stops players from cycling cards will stop players from activating cards’ typecycling abilities. Any effect that increases or reduces a cycling cost will increase or reduce a typecycling cost. Any effect that looks for a card with cycling will find a card with typecycling."

So I think that counts as a cycling ability that gets reduced. Unless you meant the macetail, in which case you are correct, it doesn't zero out unless two are in play.

Rites might also work faster than living death. Just when I thought the red mana need was removed, haha. More to test, thanks!

[rufus]

...
So I think that counts as a cycling ability that gets reduced. Unless you meant the macetail, in which case you are correct, it doesn't zero out unless two are in play.

Rites might also work faster than living death. Just when I thought the red mana need was removed, haha. More to test, thanks!

Fluctuator definitely works with landcycling. For some reason I thought pouncer was an {r/b} cycler.

[ronco]

No worries Rufus!

Another possibility to drop white altogether is shred memory or dimir infiltrator and using the transmute ability to get the fluctuator into hand from your deck.

Pros: Goes to the hand instead of the top of your deck. Doesn't require a second/third color. Can search for Shadows. Has fringe graveyard hate in a pinch.
Cons: 2 additional mana. sorcery speed. requires BB or BU (so ancient tomb doesn't help much).

This eliminates a first turn tutor, second turn fluctuator play. But, it also prevents the "waiting for a W mana source" game and can give more useful cards depending on the game state (ie it isn't necessarily a dead card after the flux is in play). Granted, the waiting for a W can be mitigated with all the land cyclers in the deck now, but this prevents it from ever happening in the first place.


More testing! I feel like this might slow the deck down but make it more consistent. we shall see.

EDIT
Transmute counts as a discard so it comes back with shadows and can also tutor for a 2cc cycler (vile manifestation), as long as I have the mana to spare for it. Might be more useful than originally thought.

updated list

Creatures - 22:

4 Jhessian Zombies
4 Igneous Pouncer
4 vile Manifestation
4 Viscera Dragger
4 Archfiend of Ifnir
2 twisted abomination - might make these Primoc escapee if the landcycling comes in too high.
[/cards]
Spells - 20:

4 fluctuator
4 songs of the damned
2 shred memory
4 lotus petal
2 living death
3 shadow of the grave
1 restless dreams

Land - 18:

4 ancient tomb
4 fetid pools
4 blasted landscape
4 canyon slough
1 irrigated farmland
1 Lake of the dead


Total Cyclers: 35
Total Non-Cyclers: 25

2 non cyclers have been removed (burst for speed), and 2 have been added (twisted abomination). Starting with 2 shred memory to see how that goes. May bump it to 3 and pull restless dreams. Lake of the dead seems to work on turn 2. First turn tapped swamp, second turn tap for mana, drop the lake then tap lake to play something (or cycle). Turn three drop a tapped land and get BBBB from it. Should be enough to get the engine going. 3 for a transmute leaving 1 for a songs or just 2 for the fluc and 2 for a shadows or something. Or play the lake on 3rd turn and get BB + BBBB for all of the above. IF the transmute works well, I may be able to pull a few more non cyclers out and squeeze in some unmask to make the deck a touch stronger. Inching along here but still getting a little better I think.

The ideal play here is to get 4 igneous pouncers in the yard with at least one archfiend while keeping viscera draggers in hand. Then living death them back and cycling the draggers to -1/-1 any of the opponents creatures to death. Then unearth them with my songs mana (at that point there should be plenty) and attack for 20-32 damage with haste with no blockers, or however much is needed.

[R3ndr0c]

A few things that are wrong with the deck, and it's partially my fault.

Lake of the Dead is only good with lots of Swamps and this deck may not have enough consistently.

Tortured Existence ONLY gets back creatures... I had brain fart.


In regards to how many Cyclers and non cyclers should be in the deck, I don't know the exact answer, but for reference, this New Perspectives deck has 31 Cyclers.

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/..._ben_frie.html

@Ronco
You don't need the Irrigated Farmland if you aren't running Enlightenend Tutor.
On that note, Transmuting seems a bit clunky with 1BB casting cost, and it's expensive, but because there is no W/B Cycling land yet printed, which makes Tutor even harder to run, maybe it's necessary. I have a single Scrubland so I think it's going to be ok. Maybe I can replace Shoreline Ranger with Pouncer but I didn't have he Scrubland before so my only white source needed to be fetched with Islandcycling.

Here is my list so far: the sideboard is not finely tuned and I haven't tested the deck much


// 60 Maindeck
// 8 Artifact
4 Fluctuator
4 Lotus Petal

// 22 Creature
4 Street Wraith
3 Viscera Dragger
4 Jhessian Zombies
4 Archfiend of Ifnir
4 Vile Manifestation
3 Shoreline Ranger
// may be replaced with Igneous Pouncer

// 10 Instant
3 Shadow of the Grave
4 Songs of the Damned
3 Enlightened Tutor

// 17 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
1 Swamp
4 Fetid Pools
4 Blasted Landscape
1 Irrigated Farmland
1 Scrubland

// 3 Sorcery
1 Restless Dreams
2 Living Death


// 15 Sideboard
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Faerie Macabre
4 Unmask
4 Thoughtseize

31 Cyclers

[ronco]

I haven't gotten to the sideboard yet, still kind of tinkering with the main. I like the direction it is going though.

Its funny, I was getting on here just to say I think the Lake and Transmute ability both seem to work well. There aren't a lot of swamps for the Lake (8) BUT there are lots of land cyclers that fetch them. The irrigated farmlands are just there as cycle lands that can be fetched by island cyclers and then cycled after that. Doesn't seem to be the problem now as they aren't really used for mana. In testing it has gotten me a shadow, a flux, and a cycler. The BB is a bit of a pain in the cost, 2B would be much better but it seems to work so far. The current build with the Transmute seems to be much better but my sample size is small (3 games) but so far its more consistent with just a couple more cyclers. Still working on the strategy as I seem to mana screw myself by not leaving myself one open so i can keep going.

I don't think more than one lake really does anything since i don't really want it right away but if i cycle into it, depending on my land play yet, it can be good.

I don't have city of traitors so I can't put those in just yet.

I'm going to keep on cycling and testing to see how it turns out and see if the deck remains consistent.



Also still don't have the wraiths in yet. I only have four and they have a nice home in my manaless dredge. But I can appreciate a free cycle. Although if one wants to ditch a couple, then play shadows and ditch while using ancient tomb... that 2 life hit adds up quick. How is it going in your deck? I've only tested in apprentice and that was my experience but with fewer cyclers initially.

[ronco]

I have the current above build from two posts up but swapped out the twisted abominations for hollow one (any vanilla cycler will do, perhaps this should be the street wraith spot) and mmay have pulled out a blasted landscape for another irrigated farmland. Crystal vein or ebon stronghold was posited as a budget alternative to the ancient tomb or city of traitors so if anyone wanted budget options that may work.

the deck runs fairly well most of the time. it plays like a fearless combo deck as there is currently no disruption although i'm having a real hard time finding a way to fit that in. Raven's Crime was initially in there but i found its pretty easy to play around on the other side. it really needs an unmask/duress/thoughtsieze/inquisition type card in it to really make sure the key spells get pushed through. The main win con here is living death for the pouncers, and if all 4 aren't in there should be a couple draggers one can leave in the hand and use song's mana to cycle then unearth after living death (and cycling them should spit out -1/-1 counters from the archfiends). It can go off surprisingly fast given that i don't think this version will ever be super competitive. It will steal games every now and then and catch people off guard, which is probably the key point to this deck.

more comments, thought i feel like a broken record but at least I am an educated one with lots of testing lol.

Lake of the dead continues to work for me. I don't know that a second one will fit though.

In my previous post I think i said 35 cyclers. That number works real well and you can bet your top dollar if cycling colored mana lands come out that don't come into play tapped they will go immediately into this deck and make it that much faster. The landcyclers seem to work well to keep the cycle going too. I think the balance is pretty good with 8 land cyclers and 11 (I think) fetchable lands. The only downside is this lessens the effect of songs as we are not dumping lands into the graveyard instead.

Transmute, while clunkier, seems to be marginally better to me than the tutor. neither is faster, inherently, but if there is enough songs/lake of the dead mana available it gets the card a turn faster. it has also on occasion pulled up a shadow of the grave when needed when my cycle ran dry. So i think therre is some merit here. Plus it is uncounterable, although that doesn't stop the opponent from countering the spell that gets tutored with it. I wonder if defense grid could find some spots in here? It can also be tutored too. If nothing else it will likely take a counter as bait.

As you can imagine the game plan hinges on getting the fluctuator out quickly OR having a handful of creatures to dump and get a hard casted living death out early and earn three the hard way. a couple creatures can be played for 2 and hollow one can come in cheaper in a pinch. Obviously it isn't the preferred way but if you don't get the cards you don't get the cards. I find vs burn or normal aggro decks if a flucs hit the field, this deck should win. It appears to be resilient, to a degree, to discard. Counter and faster combo are the chinks in the armor outside of shuffling variations where you just don't get what you need.

Long story short, we are into minor tweaks/individual preferences at this point i think as far as this particular build is concerned. I did pick up a few abandoned sarcophagus so that I can potentially test out other versions of the deck. Basically I was thinking a blend of the above plan but be more interactive in a control sense. Creatures could be cast from the yard as well as counters played or cycled (complicate, miscalculation, forsake the worldly, etc). Another avenue that someone else brought up was laboratory maniac who doesn't need to attack and can also win the turn it hits. it can be slightly more difficult to cast but with lotus petals it should be doable. This would negate the need entirely for living death and may give an extra slot or two for protection/disruption. Maybe i just need to sleeve that version up and see what happens lol. Anyway, it is definitely a fun casual combo deck if nothing else for its novelty.

[ronco]

going to try and re-work this deck a little bit. Going to work in git probes and cabal therapies and hollow one (mainly just to cast for free to flash back therpy). This gives us SOME protection and the probes act as cyclers for 2 life anyway. The challenge I think is going to be getting enough creatures in the yard for songs to work. in theory with therapy if the deck is a turn slower it may be enough protection to make it still work, and could definitely do it as it's going off. Maybe.

[Seraphim_ID]

Almost half a year passed since last update here.

Recently I've decided to visit local Legacy event with some "rogue" deck. Fluctuator was a "nice to play deck" for me since Urza Block (18 years ago, OMG!).

My result: 5-2

Decklist:


// 61 Maindeck

// Artifact [8]
4 Fluctuator
4 Lotus Petal

// Creature [25]
4 Viscera Dragger
2 Jhessian Zombies
2 Archfiend of Ifnir
4 Vile Manifestation
4 Igneous Pouncer
4 Cloud of Faeries
2 Pendrell Drake
2 Keeneye Aven
1 Laboratory Maniac

// Instant [5]
2 Shadow of the Grave
2 Songs of the Damned
1 Enlightened Tutor

// Sorcery [5]
1 Restless Dreams
1 Living Death
1 Exsanguinate
2 Unearth

// Lands [18]
4 Canyon Slough
4 Fetid Pools
4 Blasted Landscape
4 Irrigated Farmland
2 Polluted Mire

// Sideboard [15]
3 Duress (Should be 3 Thoughtseize for sure!)
2 Silence
1 Dispel
1 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
2 Hydroblast (The only useless here I think)
1 Shattering Spree
1 Dread of Night
1 Massacre


What can I say: first of all that was really fun. Not only for me but for most of the participants. Crowd around the table was almost every round.
Magic should be for fun. At least sometimes, isn't it?

Now few words about the build: I was scouting this thread for a long time, so thank you all for your thoughts and ideas! That was really helpful :)

The main point: I WANT Fluctuator ON STARTING HAND!
Here can (again) be the start of discussion about Enlightened Tutors, but our meta contains a pack of Chalices and Portents. Which makes this spell useless 80% of matches.
In my list there are 44 cyclers, BUT I fizzeled 4 times during the tournament. Too much I guess. And I want to reduce non-cyclers (MORE!).

I performed all the possible scenarios to win in this deck:
1. Vile Manifestation 28/4
2. Exsanguinate: -21 / +21
3. Living Death + 4 Igneous Pouncer
4. Laboratory Maniac + cycle, cycle, cycle

Just use the one you have first. And be ready to perform the second if the things will go wrong (FoW, removal etc).

Unearth+Cloud of Faeries gices you access to the needed color (yes, sometimes you need to play tapped land for this) if you are rolling the cycle and need to protect your victory almost righ now. Also you can discard your Laboratory Maniac and then return it back to draw the last card (may be 3-5 times in response to opponents actions).

If you are going to win with Laboratory Maniac -- be careful with the cards left in your library.

Basiclang cycling: even 6 might be too much. I often was in the situation when I found nothing. But that's not the point not to cycle Igneous Pouncer as it is the part of one of win conditions. All the tyme swampcycled Igneous Pouncer and islandcycled Jhessian Zombies.

First turn kill possible? Yes.

Won:
Burn 2-0
EldraziPost 2-1 (Story of the lost match: on the draw, Turn1: challice on 0, challice on 1; Turn 2: TKS, Turn3: challice on 2, GGs)
Miracles 2-1 (Lost to 3 FoW and 2 Counterspells in a row)
MonoBlack Myr Retriever combo 2-0
DnT 2-0 (First turn kill + Massacre)

Lost:
4c-Delver 1-2
4c-Delver 1-2

Have no idea how to play around huge hand desruption. Just ignore may be :)

[mistercakes]

curious about some card choices:

61 cards, why if the main goal is to opening hand fluctuator?

pendrell drake and keeneye before maximizing archfiend or hollow one? was casting the flyers relevant?

other than that, congrats! always happy to see fringe decks do well. i think the deck should probably be running 4 hollow one over the 4 blue guys. at worst you can just cycle them.

[Seraphim_ID]

61 cards, why if the main goal is to opening hand fluctuator?

Was unable to step over the wish to leave at least one Enlightened Tutor in deck.
But as the result -- he was always to side out.

pendrell drake and keeneye before maximizing archfiend or hollow one? was casting the flyers relevant?

In one game it gave me one more turn. It didn't helped, but still.
Archfiend of Ifnir is good when you need to clean the board. But if it is on the table there are only two scenarios:
1. You fizzled (again) and opp has a creature board (I.E. no Belcher, but goblins are on)
2. You resolved Living Death and no matter there is only one Archfiend of Ifnir or three.

Hollow One -- I just do not have them. And had not much time to get them. This is a step to upgrade the deck I guess.

other than that, congrats! always happy to see fringe decks do well.

Thanks!
Surprise effect worked well. Opponents had no idea about sideboarding options as they had no idea about win conditions.
Gravehate? Ok. Silence, Fluctuator, Lab.Maniac (+pray).
Disenchant? I can cycle in response and then other options (including new Fluctuator)
So some of the Opponents prefered to keep their MB as it is (instead of inserting bad cards) :)

[Seraphim_ID]

Made some soft tests with Hollow One.

Additional choice appeared: if the Hollow One is the last card with cycle in hand should we continue or not?
4 out of 5 times: Play Hollow One and provoke your opponent was the best option.
As I mentioned before: sad to be fizzled (and draw three Fluctuator in a row).

Deck became more agressive.
Now we can perform additional alpha strike with a couple of Hollow Ones and a pack of Viscera Draggers.

Idea to think over: 1-4 Serum Powder replacing Enlightened Tutors. They are also cards without cycling, but allow to dig deeper to get Fluctuator in starting hand (almost like "Raging Goblin, Shoal, Shoal" did long time ago).

[Michael Keller]

I always believed that Fluctuator decks should run Serum Powder. I mean, it’s nowhere near on par with the power level of something like Vintage Dredge, but on the flip side, that deck relies heavily on Bazaar as an engine to facilitate the deck. Fluctuator is really the same thing in that regard, and you always want one in your opening hand.

[mistercakes]

i was looking at that list again that seraphim posted and you also probably want to test street wraith. if you can't manage to find a fluctuator, you can at least use this to cycle and hope to find one sooner.

[Seraphim_ID]

Street Wraiths were last cards with cycling I removed from the deck.
The reason was quite simple: Burn.deck

If we do not make the wheels turning early on against Burn, I do not want to cycle for the cost of hp.
2hp -- zone of huge risk at turn 2, 4hp -- we are almost dead before we can resolve any of the options we are going to win with (All of them are on sorcery speed).

Unfortunately in our local meta there are too much of Burns, so I have to deal with that.

[mistercakes]

if anyone still likes playing a bit of a glass cannony tier 2 deck, i've got my list and i'm pretty happy w/ the numbers on it.

the only card i'd prob change is a wander in death for a 4th vile manifestation


// 60 Maindeck
// 8 Artifact
4 Fluctuator
4 Lotus Petal

// 17 Creature
4 Twisted Abomination
3 Vile Manifestation
4 Hollow One
4 Viscera Dragger
2 Street Wraith

// 12 Instant
4 Songs of the Damned
4 Shadow of the Grave
4 Dark Ritual

// 18 Land
4 Blasted Landscape
4 Fetid Pools
4 Canyon Slough
4 Polluted Mire
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Ancient Tomb

// 5 Sorcery
3 Dark Petition
1 Temporal Extortion
1 Wander in Death


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Creature
SB: 2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// 4 Land
SB: 4 Shelldock Isle

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 4 Doomsday
SB: 1 Duress


strategy is pretty standard.

Innovations

• dark petition: finds fluctuator and/or shadow of the grave. requires 2 instants/sorcs in graveyard to get BBB post resolution, which is why the singleton wander in death is played over a 4th vile manifestion.
• temporal extortion: actually is a win con that will win the "same turn". costs BBBB. any player may pay half their life rounded up. (20 --> 10). If they pass the turn, you can just cast your guys that you've returned to your hand and attack for 20+. if they pay half their life, unearth 4 viscera draggers and attack for 12.

sb:
4 doomsday + package + discard.
dark petition already works really well with doomsday. you will not win the same turn with this package. it's a pretty straight forward pass the turn pile.

again, this is still a pretty low tier 2 deck, but it can be very fun.

hope people will find some of these innovations to be helpful if they care to play this deck.

if you want you can run a laboratory maniac in the sb for a same turn doomsday, but the mana requirements are very difficult and you need fluctuator + several cards in hand with cycling.


-Rob

[R3ndr0c]

The new Mausoleum Secrets could be a straight up 2 mana tutor in this deck. Do ya'll think this could be a great new addition?