Yeah, restless dreams is a sort of half-price - half-power shadows. It also works as a discard outlet for lab maniac, and restless dreams doesn't care when the creatures were discarded, so you get better fizzle recovery.
Hey Gibsonjunkie that was me that directed you towards this form. I've been playing it a lot lately and did some changes from Barry Egan's list. I keep going back an forth on either Lab Maniac or Tendrils as a only 1 condition win card. As of today, here is the decklist that I've been playing on MTGO.Originally Posted by gibsonjunkie
4 Blasted Landscape
4 Canyon Slough
4 Fetid Pools
4 Irrigated Farmland
4 Polluted Mire
4 Remote Isle
3 Sheltered Thicket
4 Lotus Petal
2 Mox Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
1 Unearth
2 Noxious Revival
1 Lab Maniac
2 Cloud of Faeries
4 Miscalculation
4 Shadow of the Grave
4 Fluctuator
4 Rescind
1 Swat
The one thing that frustrates me about the deck is, its consistency and sometimes just drawing dead cards. I've been racking my brain to find something that improves the consistency of the deck, doesnt cost mana and isnt a dead draw when you're trying to go off. I added 2 Noxious Revival to the deck and to me its been amazing. Its gotten me out of situations like having 1 black mana but not enough to cast Shadows of the Grave while I have cyclers in my hand and a Dark Ritual in the graveyard. Its also allowed me to put Fluctuator back on top of my library if it got countered / hit with an abrupt decay / Thoughtseized etc etc. Its also not a dead draw because you can use it to guarantee a cycler is on top of your deck if you're trying to go off.
Last edited by Jander78; 05-05-2017 at 06:53 PM. Reason: added tags
I don't really look at it as a Shadow it plays a slightly different role and its bonkers in combination with Shadow. If you have a dead hand of 5+ non-cycling cards (which is quite common in my testing) but have Winds and Shadow and can cast them you will almost assuredly draw your deck so long as you have cycled a few times already that turn.
I honestly didn't know that was a card. I think it's probably better than Tolarian Winds provided that you're running enough cycling creatures (which you should be for Songs anyway). Gonna have to pick up some copies.
I'm actively working on the standard version of this deck w/ new perspectives.
Has anyone mentioned the interaction with cast Shadow of the Grave, hold priority, crack my Lion's Eye Diamond? I assume shadow of the graves checks upon resolution much like infernal tutor? :-)
Is it good enough to net 1 mana?
-rob
Yeah, Shadow does not target.
You can also stack up cycling and then pop the LED.
All things considered I'd rather cast Tolarian Winds and Shadow of the Grave and double my hand size - 2 rather than net 1 mana. Granted that does cost 4 mana to play but you can make that on turn 2 and if you're getting the god hand turn 1.
consider also Emrakul, 15/15
It can be hardcast with a final Song and takes back all your deck if discarded (anyway you discard it) if something fizzled
Trying to think of a 1 card combo for an alternative version of this deck.
Original idea was doomsday, because if you cast Fluctuator with two cycling cards in hand with Fluctuator out you can win for just the mana cost of doomsday.
Any thoughts? Might be total crap but wanted to pitch the idea.
this is my initial list, it's a bit slow, trying to compensate w/ counters + discard.
//combo 13
4 fluctuator
4 doomsday
2 lion's eye diamond
1 meditate
1 three wishes
1 laboratory maniac
//protection 26
4 cabal therapy
4 force of will
4 miscalculation
4 gitaxian probe
3 rescind
3 daze
2 swat
2 thoughtseize
//lands 21
4 canyon slough
4 fetid pools
4 polluted mire
4 irrigated farmland
4 underground sea
1 remote isle
open to suggestions, this is just a draft.
daze + fluctuator + new duals is pretty sweet. couldn't fit dark ritual in the list, so it's a bit slow. likely looking like a turn 4 kill likely as a consistent early one. even then maybe turn 5 is more reasonable.
fluctuator in play. (2 cycling cards in hand. could also have probe + 1 cycling card or 2 probes, but that requires life as well).
cast doomsday:
cycle first draw LED,
cycle second, cast 3 wishes with led mana.
lab man, led, probe (maybe you can use a cycling card here? weird how 3 wishes is worded. maybe someone can correct me on that if i'm wrong)
also was considering 1-2 dark petition, but this might require some more speed. this way if you have fluctuator in play and resolve dark petition you just win on the spot given you have the 2 cycling cards in hand.
Last edited by mistercakes; 05-09-2017 at 08:17 AM.
-rob
This has always been a card I considered - but from my perspective, if the card isn't (1) necessary for the combo (accel, win con, search), (2) protection, OR (3) takes the places of at least 2 cycling cards (like restless dreams) then it shouldn't be included.
Noxious Revival is versatile and gets you out of jams, but it's hard to justify it over just more protection.
Pretty curious how that would work?
Problem with Emmy is that (1) you can just win with Lab Man AND (2) if you discard Emmy you can't get back your cyclers with Sahdows and Dreams.
That's more of a two card combo (Fluctuator + Doomsday, and not including the cycling cards you already need in your hand). I think Doomsday decks are pretty optomized on their own threads - do they need cycling tech? I'm going to guess not.
If you can start the engine, then Vizier of Tumbling Sands and Shefet Monitor produce mana, you can produce bodies with Stir the Sands, and if you need recursion Memory + Torrential Gearhulk let's you stack a draw 7 over cycling effects so you that you can recur stuff in case shadows isn't quite enough. Gitrog Monster + Cycling lands probably also fits in the same deck.
That's pretty damn cool!
Here is a link to the deck of the day, in standard.
The deck consistently can kill on turn 5-6 and doesn't seem to brick.
https://www.channelfireball.com/arti...-perspectives/
The article basically explains the loop, but in a nutshell...
It tries to stay alive to generate 6 mana, cast new perspectives and does the following:
- Cycles Shefet monitor first to pull out basics to ramp mana.
- It uses weirding wood on a land to generate +2 mana per untap with Vizier of Tumbling Sands.
- Traverse the Ulvewald is used to demonic tutor more Viziers or the Sphinx of the Last Word to protect the combo.
- Cast Approach the 2nd Sun twice in the same turn by generating 14 mana.
Looking through cards that combine with Walking Ballista, I found Invigorating Boon. Probably too cute, but interesting nonetheless.
Been testing Spoils of the Vault it's a great card except for the times you exile Lab Maniac and lose the game. Going to be testing Intuition next. I was hoping to find a black tutor that worked because that would allow me to stay mono black. I wish Vampiric Tutor was legal. Here's my current testing list:
8 Sol Lands
4 Lots Petals
4 Fetid Pool
4 Polluted Swamp
4 Fluctuator
4 Shadows
3 Restless Dreams
3 Songs of the Damned
2 Intuition
1 Lab Maniac
2 Unearth
21 Cycling Creatures
I'd say half my goldfish games are T1 or T2 wins but there is still too big of a percentage that end in a fizzle. Not sure I can really fix the latter.
As long as you have 3-4 cyclers and can make mana for a Shadow that's usually enough to draw into something else. Restless Dreams turns brick hands into non-brick hands for one black and casting Dreams --> Shadow draws the whole deck 99% of the time. Definitely a must play because it lets you lower the amount of cyclers by a ton since you can essentially 'trade out" non-cyclers for cyclers. Unearth is really there incase Maniac gets countered because hard-casting it is never a problem once you have the deck in hand.
My goal is to stabilize this list and then figure out what cuts I need to make for 4 mainboard Duress. I will also run FoW sideboard I think.
How about -1 Unearth, +1 Laboratory Maniac to facilitate spoils? The chance of exiling both is roughly 1/16.
If you run run Canyon Slough instead of polluted mire, and swampcycling creatures, it might change the fizzle characteristics. (I haven't done the math.)
You're fizzling because to go off turn 1, and assuming you're running 2 restless dreams you need at least 32 cycling cards, half of which must be creatures. (In order to get a second a Shadows/Dreams). And that also doesn't take into account that if you're aiming to go off turn 1, not only do you need to get (1) a SOL land, (2) A fluctuator, (3) draw into a 2nd shadows/dreams using your cycling cards, AND (4) 1 or 2 accel cards to even cast the 2nd shadows/dreams.
That's why I don't think this deck is buildable as a 1-2 turn deck. 3 is pushing it. 4 is the sweet spot in terms of speed, protection, consistency and affordability. 5 is "why bother" territory.
My current thought process is let's build this as fast as possible and then slow it down as little as possible while arriving at a sweet spot.
You're right about T1 wins needing to have a nut draw. But it happens a decent portion of the time. FWIW, my current list is 31 cyclers; so one off your recommendation.
IMO, here is the "core"
4 Fluctuator
3-4 Cards to Search for Fluctuator
4 Shadows
2-3 Restless Dreams
7-8 "Accel"
1 Lab Maniac
19-28 (depending on how fast you want to go off) Cycling cards (half of which must be creatures, the other half lands to help with your numbers)
4 Blasted Landscape
So the "fasted deck" I can imagine would end up something like:
4 Fluctuator
4 Cards to Search for Fluctuator
4 Shadows
2 Restless Dreams
8 Accel
1 Maniac
14 Cycling duals
4 Blasted Landscape
14 Cycling creatures
5 SOL Lands
The most "protection" turn 4 deck I can imagine would end up something like:
4 Fluctuator
3 Cards to Search for Fluctuator
4 Shadows
2 Restless Dreams
7 Accel
1 Maniac
11 Cycling duals
4 Blasted Landscape
12 Cycling creatures
4-5 Other lands (Duals, fetch or maybe even sol lands?)
6-7 "Protection"
So something like:
4 Fluctuator
4 Spoils of the Vault
4 Shadows of the Past
3 Restless Dreams
2 Chrome Mox
2 Songs of the Damned
4 Mox Diamond
2 Unearth
2 Laboratory Maniac
4 Fetid Pools
4 Canyon Slough
2 Polluted Mire
4 Blasted Landscape
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Viscera Dragger
2 Wasteland Scorpion
4 Jhessian Zombies
4 City of Traitors
1 Ancient Tomb
I'll see about automated testing with a list like that this weekend.
The Viscera Draggers can do a lot of damage. Does something goofy like Syphon Life make any sense with that as an alternative wincon?
Edit: Maybe Raven's Crime to eat their hand and then some bloated toad beats to close out the game.
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