No one should be happy about Top.

[Machinus]

I believe this is another example of bad decision making.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ent-2017-04-24

In Legacy, Miracles—a deck that is focused on combining Counterbalance and Sensei's Divining Top to control what opponents can or (mostly) cannot resolve—has been the best deck in the format for some time. We were hopeful that this would change over time, but it has not. That alone is not necessarily enough to move to ban a card from the deck, but Sensei's Divining Top comes with its own host of issues that center around the timely conclusion of matches in a tournament setting. The necessity of repeated Top activations to play the card slows down match play and leads to tournament delays. Coupled with the power of the Miracles deck, this is reason enough for us to take action on Top. Therefore, Sensei's Divining Top is banned in Legacy.

[danyul]

I am excited as fuck!

[DrPepper836]

I completely agree with OP. Miracles was the only competitive blue control deck in the format. Sensei's Divining Top was a powerful, skill intensive card that helped define Legacy as a format. If I wanted to watch people bash tarmogoyfs into Liliana of the Veil's, I'd go play Modern. And I say this as a TES player...

[Humphrey]

now brainstorm and i finally will play legacy again

[Hanni]

I think Top was the wrong card to ban. Banning Top kills the entire archetype.

[non-inflammable]

I think Top was the wrong card to ban. Banning Top kills the entire archetype.

as much as i hate miracles, i want it in the format; AND... i just bought into painter/stone w/ 3 tops!

[s&s]

happy its gone, some people just far to slow with it

[UnderwaterGuy]

happy its gone, some people just far to slow with it

Ban (or just penalize) the slow players, not the card.

Fetchlands would be next to go if wotc is actually applying this thought process to Legacy. I don't think they are though and the time-saving argument is just an excuse to ban a non-creature deck that was powerful.

[Dr_D]

Glad I've spent years learning how to cast Doomsday :'D

[Richard Cheese]

I loathe Miracles. Like, haven't played Legacy in ~2 years because I got so sick of seeing it, and I still think Top was the wrong card.

Terminus was the real problem. We had very good control decks in this format that weren't completely oppressive with Top and Counterbalance legal. Now they've taken away the best/only non-blue consistency tool from the format. I can think of a half dozen other decks that are really hurt by this.

[CutthroatCasual]

Ban (or just penalize) the slow players, not the card.

Fetchlands would be next to go if wotc is actually applying this thought process to Legacy. I don't think they are though and the time-saving argument is just an excuse to ban a non-creature deck that was powerful.

People should start taking 30 seconds to resolve fetchlands, see what happens then.

[tescrin]

EDIT: I missed Dice's ask to lay off. I am editing this to be empty now.
Sorry!

That said, I voted "good that it's gone" or w/e in the poll

[CutthroatCasual]

CounterTop is skill intensive? Let's not go crazy. I believe Joe Lossett was one of the people who said something like "The most frustrating part of losing to miracles is you can't tell if the opponent is good or not."

Regardless, you can create blue control that isn't CTop based. We've seen BUG Walkers (usually a form of Nic Fit), we've seen RUG Lands, we've seen Tezzerator, we've seen Cloudpost, all in the last few years. The problem is that they were all worse than CTop's utter dominnace; specifically because CTop has no weaknesses. Tezz needs a strong start, BUG Walkers is weaker to combo/grave hate, Cloudpost is weaker to combo, RUG lands is weak to grave hate.

The manabase, the sweeper, the CTop CA, etc.. was all the best you could do. It ignored every viable version of a counter to it. I don't care about what argument it took to get this monkey off of legacy's back. How many decks had to die to the grind of hour-long rounds where G2's strategy was always "lol.. just stall until we draw Derp!"

Thank. God.


Bring all the salty tears! Combo will be back in force. Elves will be a top deck again. Lands will be the premier control deck again. D&T will still be an aggro/control weird thing that annoys people. And blue? Blue will be shifted back to Anti-Combo and Consistency rather than Every-Deck-Is-BUG[x]

Decay? Will see less play for once. It's still good, but the Edrazi, Gurmags, Leovolds, and Mirran Crusaders will chase it out as a ubiquitous 3-4 of.

Patriot. Bant. Grixis. Esper. RUG. Maybe even Junk, Jund, Maverick, etc..
All these decks that homogenized around Decay will be released from captivity.

TES will get to be a thing again. RUG Delver will have to fight DRS, but it did that before with great success. Patriot won't be locked out for not being BG. Grixis will probably un-splash.


All the salt will not make up for the salt of the literally dozen or more decks that have been utterly squashed by the inability to run more than one creature on the board at a time. All of the decks that were covered in creature-based CA getting pwned by a lucky draw of a Terminus. All of the Grave-recursive creatures get a new lease on life.

Salt in this case will lower my blood pressure. Salt here is a healthy alternative to the frustrating garbage format that had been flattened into BUg[x] vs. UWr CTop.

I can't hardly type enough praise of the unexpected relief that will probably push me back into playing regularly.

Man the rose-colored glasses are thick with this one. Aside from Dark Bant Blade and Grixis Delver/Control (all decks already currently seeing play), none of the decks you think are coming back will come back. BUGr's meta share just gets wider. News flash: bad decks are still bad. Lands wasn't being pushed out by Miracles; Storm was killed by Leovold; SnS was already making a comeback but that deck barely cares about the metagame.

[Tormod]

Feelings are so confused today. My beloved Maple Leafs lost and are out of the play offs, but then they Ban top today.

I haven't played a major legacy event since the debacle that was GPNJ. Having an event run 3 hours over time each day was really put off.

Future looks bright!

[Doishy]

RiP Doomsday :'(

And also just as I was planning on building Painter or Bomberman next!

Should have been Terminus that went.

[Whitefaces]

Storm was killed by Leovold

Oh man, this is a good one.

[Noctalor]

I believe this is another example of bad decision making.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ent-2017-04-24

Im gonna masturbate, in the meanwhile.

[Kanti]

I believe this is another example of bad decision making.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ent-2017-04-24

Obviously the wrong decision, but it really depends on how you look at it. This is like Survival of the Fittest all over again for me. You have SotF, and Top out for many years. Great cards, both enablers to different archetypes, and both very Legacy, if that is even a thing, by the sense that they introduce another level of decision making to the game-state.

But then Vengevine came around, and then Miracles. Vengevine breaks SotF, so do you ban Vengevine to keep SotF around, but then limit design, or have to keep banning cards cards in Legacy because you want Survival? Same goes for Top, do you limit design space and/or have to keep banning future cards, or ban Top?

I love Legacy, so for me the answer is to close my ears, sing lalala, and say ban Vengevine and ban Entreat or some crap so I can keep my amazingly flavorful, decision-tree growing, badass art having cards.

[Machinus]

Obviously the wrong decision, but it really depends on how you look at it. This is like Survival of the Fittest all over again for me. You have SotF, and Top out for many years. Great cards, both enablers to different archetypes, and both very Legacy, if that is even a thing, by the sense that they introduce another level of decision making to the game-state.

But then Vengevine came around, and then Miracles. Vengevine breaks SotF, so do you ban Vengevine to keep SotF around, but then limit design, or have to keep banning cards cards in Legacy because you want Survival? Same goes for Top, do you limit design space and/or have to keep banning future cards, or ban Top?

I love Legacy, so for me the answer is to close my ears, sing lalala, and say ban Vengevine and ban Entreat or some crap so I can keep my amazingly flavorful, decision-tree growing, badass art having cards.

I addressed above how this is a bad comparison. The Survival deck, using the appropriate and relevant metrics, was doing too well. It was only around for a short time because it accumulated very strong evidence in a short time period. This never happened with Miracles. It's not too powerful.

It's typical DCI bullshit to try to combine two weak arguments and hope the audience buys it as a whole. In this case, as you can see from the very low post quality above, there are a lot of people who whined about this card for bad reasons who are supporting the ban. So WotC gets their "feedback" in this case.

[s&s]

It's not too powerful.

15% of the field plays it cuz they like the art on tundras I bet.