No one should be happy about Top.

[s&s]

Slow players will be slow, be it with Library or Guile or Scroll Rack or Top or fetchlands.

Sure but none of those cards have the potential to be activated multiple times per turn.

[lavafrogg]

Wizards bans the enabler and I appreciate them being consistent with that approach.

Don't ban Hulk, ban Flash.
Don't ban Vine, ban Survival.
Don't ban Terminus, ban Top.

Good job Wizards.

[Tantarus]

This is the best day ever. I have not been so excited for legacy in some time. Never thought it was going to happen.

[Machinus]

Wizards bans the enabler and I appreciate them being consistent with that approach.

Don't ban Hulk, ban Flash.
Don't ban Vine, ban Survival.
Don't ban Terminus, ban Top.

Good job Wizards.

Your analogy is false. Flash Hulk and the Survival deck performed much too well, and the tournament evidence of their power level made a case for action.

There was no power level problem with Miracles.

[Dice_Box]

No one should be happy about Top.

Sorry, can't be happy, too exhausted from dancing.

[Noctalor]

I believe this is another example of bad decision making.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ent-2017-04-24

Im gonna masturbate, in the meanwhile.

[owerbart]

Slow players will be slow, be it with Library or Guile or Scroll Rack or Top or fetchlands.

Or just reading the same card over and over again xD

Terminus should've been the card to go. Now a whole deck is dead and 12Post and Painter (and storm to some extent) suffer the consequences :(

[Richard Cheese]

It was a form of non blue filtering used best by blue decks, and the decks hurt by it make up possibly a 1% of the format

It certainly sucks for those decks but I would argue some (Imperial Painter and Nic Fit) probably gain more from the lack of miracles.

Would you not get the same effect on the meta by banning Terminus, without also hurting a bunch of fringe decks? And why should we care how popular or good the other decks hurt by this are? The reality is that there are other decks affected by a Top ban where as Terminus would have hit exactly one.

I'm definitely glad Miracles has been weakened, I just think there was more than one way to achieve that goal.

I kinda buy the time argument, because it is durdley as hell. Still, you nerf Miracles in some other way and suddenly Top isn't 20% of the room anymore.

[Barook]

3/17: #1
4/17: #1

There was no power level problem with Miracles.

[Machinus]

Misunderstood statistics and random numbers

Yes, my original post was correct. Legacy has had significant diversity in tournament top8s, and reasonable relative performance of decks at all large tournaments.

You can give facts to whiners, but you can't make then analyze formats rationally.

:)

[Dice_Box]

4/17: #1

It gets a victory lap next month too if the numbers hold out.

You can give facts to whiners, but you can't make then analyze formats rationally.

We would try, but we don't have to educate you anymore, it's over. So you can delude yourself everything is fine, I have a nice cup of tears here to last me a month. I will just add yours. It's simpler than debating with fools.

[Machinus]

Babbling nonsense.

I can't say I've ever learned anything from you to begin with. Who are you, again?

[danyul]

I can't say I've ever learned anything from you to begin with. Who are you, again?

I'm prepping my delicious breakfast and am missing some salt. Could I bother you for some of those tears?

[Dice_Box]

I can't say I've ever learned anything from you to begin with. Who are you, again?

[guillemnicolau]

I'm not happy... (JUST KIDDING, THIS IS AWESOME )

[The_Dingo]

I think top was the incorrect ban as well. I always kind of thought that the problem with miracles was that it broke the normal predator prey cycle of legacy by being simultaneously good against both aggro and combo, and therefore being the best deck regardless of what the metagame looked like. I had hoped for terminus or counterbalance to be banned in order to make it vulnerable to half of the cycle. But instead WOTC decided to just flush the deck down the toilet. Oh well.

[Boompuffboom]

Not sold on the time argument, but im happy this might (re)open the door again to more deck varieties.

For real thou, this was bbbbbbbound to happen. Not recognizing sdt as a game-changing (and overly abusable) enabler is hypocrisy, and frankly Miracles is beyond stupid to play against. Absolutely 0% fun. I get all the butthurt thou, i would be pissed too if all of a sudden i couldnt be #1 forever.

Times change. If this change makes you quit magic, good fkn riddance, LOL.

[Kanti]

I believe this is another example of bad decision making.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ent-2017-04-24

Obviously the wrong decision, but it really depends on how you look at it. This is like Survival of the Fittest all over again for me. You have SotF, and Top out for many years. Great cards, both enablers to different archetypes, and both very Legacy, if that is even a thing, by the sense that they introduce another level of decision making to the game-state.

But then Vengevine came around, and then Miracles. Vengevine breaks SotF, so do you ban Vengevine to keep SotF around, but then limit design, or have to keep banning cards cards in Legacy because you want Survival? Same goes for Top, do you limit design space and/or have to keep banning future cards, or ban Top?

I love Legacy, so for me the answer is to close my ears, sing lalala, and say ban Vengevine and ban Entreat or some crap so I can keep my amazingly flavorful, decision-tree growing, badass art having cards.

[Machinus]

Obviously the wrong decision, but it really depends on how you look at it. This is like Survival of the Fittest all over again for me. You have SotF, and Top out for many years. Great cards, both enablers to different archetypes, and both very Legacy, if that is even a thing, by the sense that they introduce another level of decision making to the game-state.

But then Vengevine came around, and then Miracles. Vengevine breaks SotF, so do you ban Vengevine to keep SotF around, but then limit design, or have to keep banning cards cards in Legacy because you want Survival? Same goes for Top, do you limit design space and/or have to keep banning future cards, or ban Top?

I love Legacy, so for me the answer is to close my ears, sing lalala, and say ban Vengevine and ban Entreat or some crap so I can keep my amazingly flavorful, decision-tree growing, badass art having cards.

I addressed above how this is a bad comparison. The Survival deck, using the appropriate and relevant metrics, was doing too well. It was only around for a short time because it accumulated very strong evidence in a short time period. This never happened with Miracles. It's not too powerful.

It's typical DCI bullshit to try to combine two weak arguments and hope the audience buys it as a whole. In this case, as you can see from the very low post quality above, there are a lot of people who whined about this card for bad reasons who are supporting the ban. So WotC gets their "feedback" in this case.

[s&s]

It's not too powerful.

15% of the field plays it cuz they like the art on tundras I bet.