If we really want to discuss the difference between hard control and aggro control, we need to agree on terms like 'disruption' and 'threat'. Lava Spike is pure threat, where Fog Bank is pure disruption. Most cards have both disruptive and threatening applications, though some are better suited for one or the other.
Snappy is a cool card. In UR Delver it is primarily aggressive, but in Unexpected Miracles it is mostly defensive. In Blade it is more 50/50.
I believe the more your cards can be used as threats, the more aggro the deck. The more your cards are valuable as disruption, the more "control" your deck is. To be considered pure aggro or hard control, you need a pretty heavily skewed deck.
@Zombie, that deck looks like it plays control very nicely and is well suited for it. As you say, it is more on the control plan than 4Goyf control. Also worth noting it is more capable of coming up with a threat than ItsUnfair's Topless Miracles list.
Snappy and Strix are not particularly efficient threats, but they do have some value as threats. I used to play Enchantress, and while Humility is a great card it is totally possible to lose to 1/1s!
I see control and aggro on a scale. UR Delver is more of an aggro deck than Thresh, but more of a control deck than Zoo. Hard control and linear aggro are on the ends of the spectrum (and naturally there will be borderline cases).
Edit - if the terminology is controversial, it's not really important. I (and others) like to see defensive decks with very few sources to reduce the opponents life total. I don't care what you want to call them, but I am happy they are showing up in the preliminary rounds of the new meta.
Last edited by Crimhead; 05-25-2017 at 08:21 AM.
Supremacy 2020 is the modern era game of nuclear brinksmanship! My blog:
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http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...lara-lands-dec
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PM me if you want to contribute!
Originally Posted by TsumiBand
About a month of topless data now in.
Lousville SCG Classic, 147 players, 8 rounds, May 21
Jund Depths, Infect, Food Chain, U/B Landstill, Grixis Tempo, Belcher, Team America, Grixis Tempo, Maverick, Sneak & Show, Elves, Shardless BUG, Aggro Loam, Sneak & Show, Eldrazi, B/R Reanimator
Saint-Petersburg Legacy Open, 48 players, 6 rounds, May 20
Aggro Loam, Team America, Dark Lands, Eldrazi, Grixis Tempo, Grixis Tempo, R/G Lands, Sneak & Show
Pharaoh’s Shop | Novo Hamburgo, 46 players, 6 rounds, May 7
Sneak & Show, Elves, Team America, Shardless BUG, Infect, Splinter Twin, Grixis Tempo, Wish/Knight Lands
Legacy Lucerne, 37 players, 6 rounds, May 21
U/B Tempo, Eldrazi & Taxes, Eldrazi, TES, R/W Death & Taxes, Aggro Loam, UWR Control, UWR Delver
Following TCDecks/The Source's system, decks get 1 point for each round of the tournament, plus 1 point for each top 8 match won
2225 total points
63 different placing archetypes in 6+ round tournaments from April 24 to now
DTB ≥ 4.6% of total, so 102.35 points
Post-Top DTBs so far: Grixis Tempo, Sneak & Show, ANT, Infect
Grixis Tempo: 235
Sneak & Show: 146
ANT: 125
Infect: 106
Death & Taxes: 99
Team America: 93
Elves: 91
U/R Delver: 89
Eldrazi: 88
OmniTell: 82
Bant Deathblade: 68
B/R Reanimator: 64
Lands: 60
Aggro Loam: 49
Grixis Control: 47
Esperblade: 44
Burn: 41
Food Chain: 40
UWR Stoneblade: 38
Czech Pile: 37
Aluren: 36
Jund: 31
Shardless BUG: 29
Eldrazi & Taxes: 28
27 Points: Dredge, Maverick
U/B Reanimator: 22
UWR Delver: 21
Dragon Stompy: 20
19 Points: Merfolk, Nic Fit, U/R Control
16 Points: Esper Delver, Tin Fins
15 Points: BUG Leovold, Reanimator Depths
Belcher: 14
13 Points: Splinter Twin, TES
Jund Depths: 11
4c Delver: 10
9 Points: Canadian Thresh, Imperial Painter, Mono-Red Sneak Attack, Slivers, Tezzeret Control, U/B Landstill, U/B Tempo, UWR Landstill
8 Points: Junk, U/R Standstill
7 Points: Dark Depths, Pox
6 Points: 12-Post, Big Eldrazi, BUG unclassified, BWG unclassified, Devoted Maverick Combo, Doomsday, Esper Deathblade, Oops, All Spells, U/W Blade Control, UWR Control
Where do we stand a week before Grand Prix Vegas?
The new Legacy metagame is moving quickly. Looking at May summaries is incomplete, as you get older results from early May, and miss out on June data. Looking at June data so far is too limited.
So, I present every 6 round+ tournament I could find from May 20th on, sorted newest to oldest. 3 weekends of results, and I'll add anything from this coming weekend.
Following TCDecks/The Source's system, decks get 1 point for each round of the tournament, plus 1 point for each top 8 match won.
DTB cutoff would be 69.644 out of 1,514 total points, with Grixis Tempo, Death & Taxes, Elves, and Lands making the provisional cut.
June 4th, Hareruya Challenge, 298 players, 9 rounds
Sneak & Show, R/G Lands, Dragon Stompy, Esper Delver, U/R Delver, Grixis Tempo, Jund, Grixis Tempo, U/W EldraziBlade, Sneak & Show, Elves, Grixis Tempo, Miracles, Death & Taxes, Infect, Tin Fins
June 4th, Quest for Power, 7 rounds
4c Cascade, Maverick, Esper Deathblade, Team America, Team America, Dragon Stompy, Aggro Loam, Grixis Tempo
June 4th, GP Manila Side Event, 45 players, 6 rounds
B/R Reanimator, Miracles, ANT, Death & Taxes, U/W Blade Control, Eldrazi, Imperial Painter, Shardless BUG
June 4th, Fire & Dice, 43 players, 6 rounds
Dragon Stompy, Grixis Tempo, Burn, Team America, Bant Deathblade, Grixis Tempo, Grixis Tempo, Maverick
June 3rd, Ovino Main Event, 108 players, 7 rounds
ANT, Grixis Tempo, Elves, Grixis Tempo, Death & Taxes, Grixis Control, Dragon Stompy, Dark Depths
June 3rd, レガシー神トライアル, 91 players, 7 rounds
Grixis Control, Infect, OmniTell, Jund, U/R Delver, Infect, 4c uncategorized, Affinity
June 3rd, Ovino Side Event, 61 players, 6 rounds
Maverick, Sneak & Show, Team America, Grixis Control, Esperblade, R/G Lands, Infect, ANT
May 29th, Black Gold GPT, 50 players, 6 rounds
Miracles, Czech Pile, Belcher, Death & Taxes, Dark Lands, Bantblade Standstill, Elves, Aggro Loam, Grixis Tempo, Grixis Tempo, Burn
May 28th, GP Kobe Side Event, 108 players, 7 rounds
Elves, Death & Taxes, Shardless BUG, Golins, Bant Deathblade, Jund, Death & Taxes, Death & Taxes
May 28th, ChannelFireball $4K, 98 players, 7 rounds
ANT, Elves, Lands, Maverick, Bant Deathblade, Elves, Food Chain, Dredge
May 28th, Circuito Legacy Catarinense, 49 players, 6 rounds
TES, Dark Depths, Burn, Elves, Bant Deathblade, Burn, Manaless Dredge, Sneak & Show
May 28th, 21º Alpha, 42 players, 6 rounds
Grixis Tempo, Esperblade, Eldrazi, Grixis Tempo, Grixis Tempo, UWR Delver, Team America, Jund
May 28th, Belgian Legacy Cup 2017 - Trial I, 33 players, 6 rounds
U/R Control, Team America, U/R Delver, U/R Delver, Death & Taxes, Eldrazi, TES, BUG uncategorized
May 27th, $1K/Vegas GPT @ MBH Seattle, 72 players, 7 rounds
R/G Lands, Burn, UWR Stoneblade, ANT, Death & Taxes, Elves, Grixis Tempo, Grixis Tempo
May 27th, 晴れる屋レガシー杯, 45 players, 6 rounds
Grixis Control, ANT, Doomsday, Grixis Tempo, Angel Stompy, Sneak & Show, Grixis Tempo, Grixis Tempo
May 27th, GPT at The Geekery HQ, 36 players, 6 rounds
Death & Taxes, R/G Lands, Canadian Threshold, ANT, B/R Reanimator, Grixis Tempo, Death & Taxes, B/R Reanimator
May 21st, Louisville SCG Classic, 147 players, 8 rounds
Jund Depths, Infect, Food Chain, U/B Landstill, Grixis Tempo, Belcher, Team America, Grixis Tempo, Maverick, Sneak & Show, Elves, Shardless BUG, Aggro Loam, Sneak & Show, Eldrazi, B/R Reanimator
May 21st, 6º jornada Liga Madrileña de Legacy, 43 players, 6 rounds
Eldrazi, Death & Taxes, Team America, Grixis Tempo, U/W Blade Control, Death & Taxes, Grixis Tempo, Sneak & Show
May 21st, Lucerne MkM Trial, 37 players, 6 rounds
U/B Tempo, Eldrazi & Taxes, Eldrazi, TES, R/W Death & Taxes, Aggro Loam, UWR Control, UWR Delver
May 20th, Legacy God Trial, 71 players, 7 rounds
U/R Delver, Merfolk, Big Eldrazi, UWR Delver, Elves, Grixis Control, U/R Control, U/R Delver
May 20th, Saint-Petersburg Legacy Open, 48 players, 6 rounds
Aggro Loam, Team America, Dark Lands, Eldrazi, Grixis Tempo, Grixis Tempo, R/G Lands, Sneak & Show
May 20th, Known Magicians Clan - 78th, 39 players, 6 rounds
Mono B Reanimator, Eldrazi, U/R Delver, Pox, Blue Zoo, MUD, Tin Fins, Dragon Stompy, R/G Lands
May 20th, $1K @ Top Deck Games, 6 rounds
UWR Control, Dredge, Eldrazi & Taxes, U/B Reanimator, Maverick, ANT, R/G Lands, U/R Delver
Grixis Tempo: 186
Death & Taxes: 100
Elves: 78
Lands: 74
Sneak & Show: 67
Team America: 66
ANT: 62
U/R Delver: 60
Eldrazi: 55
Maverick: 46
Infect: 41
Grixis Control: 40
Dragon Stompy: 39
Aggro Loam: 36
Burn: 35
Jund: 30
B/R Reanimator: 29
Bant Deathblade: 26
Miracles: 26
Shardless BUG: 22
TES: 22
UWR Delver: 20
16: Food Chain, U/R Control
15: Belcher, Dark Depths, Dredge, Eldrazi & Taxes, Tin Fins
14: Esperblade, UWR Control
U/W Blade Control: 12
Jund Depths: 11
Esper Delver: 10
9: 4c Cascade, Merfolk, Mono B Reanimator, U/B Landstill, U/B Tempo, U/W EldraziBlade
8: Big Eldrazi, Czech Pile, Esper Deathblade, Goblins, OmniTell, UWR Stoneblade
7: 4c uncategorized, Affinity, Canadian Threshold, Doomsday, Pox, U/B Reanimator
6: Angel Stompy, Bantblade Standstill, Blue Zoo, BUG uncategorized, Imperial Painter, Manaless Dredge, MUD
Final update before tomorrow's Grand Prix, adding to the previous post.
Three new 6 round+ tournaments added, which bookend the results we have for the four weekends immediately before the GP, starting on May 20th.
Following TCDecks/The Source's system, decks get 1 point for each round of the tournament, plus 1 point for each top 8 match won.
DTB cutoff would be 80.546 out of 1,751 total points, with Grixis Tempo, Death & Taxes, Elves, U/R Delver, and Lands making the cut.
June 11th, Knight Ware Eternal Weekend Trial, 74 players, 7 rounds
Elves, Dredge, Sneak & Show, Death & Taxes, Grixis Tempo, Death & Taxes, Dragon Stompy, Grixis Tempo, Death & Taxes, Infect, 12-Post, Lands, B/R Reanimator, Grixis Tempo, Aggro Loam, Death & Taxes
June 10th, 晴れる屋レガシー杯, 57 players, 6 rounds
U/R Delver, OmniTell, Death & Taxes, Esperblade, U/R Delver, Dragon Stompy, Death & Taxes, Miracles
Liga Argentina de Legacy (1st Semester), May 27th, 78 players, 7 rounds
U/B Reanimator, Esper Deathblade, Death & Taxes, U/W Control, BUG uncategorized, U/R Delver, Esperblade, B/R Reanimator
Grixis Tempo: 207
Death & Taxes: 150
Elves: 88
U/R Delver: 82
Lands: 81
Sneak & Show: 75
Team America: 66
ANT: 62
Eldrazi: 55
Dragon Stompy: 52
Infect: 48
Maverick: 46
Aggro Loam: 43
B/R Reanimator: 43
Grixis Control: 40
Burn: 35
Miracles: 32
Jund: 30
Esperblade: 28
Bant Deathblade: 26
Dredge: 24
22: Shardless BUG, TES
UWR Delver: 20
17: Esper Deathblade, U/B Reanimator
16: Food Chain, OmniTell, U/R Control
15: Belcher, Eldrazi & Taxes, Dark Depths, Tin Fins
UWR Control: 14
BUG uncategorized: 13
U/W Blade Control: 12
Jund Depths: 11
Esper Delver: 10
9: Merfolk, 4c Cascade, Mono B Reanimator, U/B Landstill, U/B Tempo, U/W EldraziBlade
8: Big Eldrazi, Goblins, UWR Stoneblade, Czech Pile, U/W Control
7: 12-Post, Canadian Threshold, Doomsday, Pox, Affinity, 4c uncategorized
6: Angel Stompy, Manaless Dredge, Imperial Painter, MUD, Blue Zoo, Bantblade Standstill
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