You can erase 1 card from the game: which?

[Noctalor]

I disagree with your argument about Goyf and True name. Goyf sucks because every two drop printed now is almost completely invalid because goyf exists. And True Name is miserable just because of how fucking dumb it is. It's the Griselchimp of fair decks. Allows complete chimpanzees to just ignore their opponent completely and just ravage people like the mongoloids that they are.

That said, leotard is just fucking miserable as well. The best chains variant ever printed, in blue, but not symmetrical, that also draws you cards. Seriously what the fucking shit. Fuck you wizards. Basically fuck this whole format at this point

You could apply your logic to every single card actually relevant in legacy, the card pool is supposed to be made by the best 200ish prints out of 20000ish, and for a 3 drop to be playable it takes quite a lot of benefits apparently.

[Megadeus]

You could apply your logic to every single card actually relevant in legacy, the card pool is supposed to be made by the best 200ish prints out of 20000ish, and for a 3 drop to be playable it takes quite a lot of benefits apparently.

I mean, it's probably because I've finally been playing long enough to see 3 drops that other people thought were power creeping older stuff (KOTR to the old Terravore) out of the format now creeping things I enjoy out, but I think at least in the case of Goyf it can be said that the raw efficiency of the card invalidates most other two drops, and in his case I feel like it even makes many 3 and 4 mana creatures unplayable

[Noctalor]

I mean, it's probably because I've finally been playing long enough to see 3 drops that other people thought were power creeping older stuff (KOTR to the old Terravore) out of the format now creeping things I enjoy out, but I think at least in the case of Goyf it can be said that the raw efficiency of the card invalidates most other two drops, and in his case I feel like it even makes many 3 and 4 mana creatures unplayable

If you are looking for raw power at the moment we are stuck with Delver/Tarmo/Angler, maybe in the future even those guys wont make the cut.

But in the format there are still a lot of decks that are not looking for raw power, and there are plenty of 2 drops played over tarmogoyf, tarmo is an auto include basicly only in delver decks and BUG shells, because both those decks need a good enought punchline and BUG dont really have one (in fact you can see tarmo going away from some BUG midrange decks because you can just play the nemesis game, and leovold is good enought to fill as the other half of the punchline), most green decks that are not bug don't even bother with a vanilla 2 drop.

And for the same exact reason one could argue that plowshares is basicly going to make every single white spot removal spell not relevent for the rest of MTG, the same is true for most of the currently played cards in legacy, most of them were design mistakes in the first place, we are not getting something better than glimpse and order for example, and is not like those cards are not pushing the format in a direction in a way, order used to be played in most fair decks because it was a brainless autowin because nothing could hold a proggy back, then terminus happened, but now that top is banned i can easily see order being the top 4 drop green will ever have again.

And it's also unfair to say that kotr is dead, it is at least played in a tier1/1.5 which keeps doing fairly good, and it's not like kotr is bad or anything, the main reason why we dont see as much of it is because if you want to play GW you had to play aggro loam during those years, kotr was fine and it is a strong play for maverik as much as it is for aggro loam, but the rest of the deck couldn't keep it up with the format, yet again there is a chance that new GW based decks will rise thanks to the banning.

I don't dislike power creep when a card, supposed to do x, is outclassed because another card just does x much better, the real bs is when a card is so good at doing y that trying to do x just becomes idiotic, pretty much what terminus did to creature based decks.

[KevinTrudeau]

I'll never forget the day they printed Show and Tell. Made me quit Legacy for 2+ years. Only now does it feel like a stable format again.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Fetches, although I do like them and think they add something to the format, would be interesting to see the development of legacy without them. Is DRS still a card, is brainstorm still good, how do you make a 3/4 color
manabase, etc.

[ramanujan]

I'll never forget the day they printed Show and Tell. Made me quit Legacy for 2+ years. Only now does it feel like a stable format again.

I find this a puzzling response. Show and Tell was printed in 1998, but "Legacy" became a thing 2004. Are you saying that you stopped playing 1.5 from 1998 to 2000?

[Noctalor]

I find this a puzzling response. Show and Tell was printed in 1998, but "Legacy" became a thing 2004. Are you saying that you stopped playing 1.5 from 1998 to 2000?

I guess its point is that show and tell was printed in rise of eldrazi.

[menloe]

I disagree with your argument about Goyf and True name. Goyf sucks because every two drop printed now is almost completely invalid because goyf exists. And True Name is miserable just because of how fucking dumb it is. It's the Griselchimp of fair decks. Allows complete chimpanzees to just ignore their opponent completely and just ravage people like the mongoloids that they are.

That said, leotard is just fucking miserable as well. The best chains variant ever printed, in blue, but not symmetrical, that also draws you cards. Seriously what the fucking shit. Fuck you wizards. Basically fuck this whole format at this point

Learn it, live it, love it. Megadeus for prez.

[Bobmans]

I guess its point is that show and tell was printed in rise of eldrazi.

I can't even remember anything played SnT (or Sneak) before Griselbrand.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

[Quasim0ff]

I can't even remember anything played SnT (or Sneak) before Griselbrand.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

People played Emrakul, Progenitus, Woodfall Primus (if i remember correct) etc.

Griselbrand made it tier 1.5 status.

OT: Ancient tomb and/or gitaxian probe.

[Stuart]

OT: Ancient tomb and/or gitaxian probe.

It's interesting to me that Tomb's getting some hate. I hadn't ever really heard this until Eli Kassis called for it to be banned after SCG Worcester.

[Quasim0ff]

It's interesting to me that Tomb's getting some hate. I hadn't ever really heard this until Eli Kassis called for it to be banned after SCG Worcester.

Ancient enables every single archetype I dislike. I don't mind chalice, of it takes some serious deckbuilding constraints for examble, but 6 sol lands just means there's basically no problem is just jamming them into your otherwise stompy deck.

[Deviruchi]

I can't even remember anything played SnT (or Sneak) before Griselbrand.

There was a time when S&T was used to put Hive Mind into play. Long before Omniscience and Griselbrand.

[mistercakes]

Dream halls was played a bit too

[jandax]

I'll never forget the day they printed Show and Tell. Made me quit Legacy for 2+ years. Only now does it feel like a stable format again.

Was legacy a thing in 98? Def do not remember that

[maharis]

I disagree with your argument about Goyf and True name. Goyf sucks because every two drop printed now is almost completely invalid because goyf exists. And True Name is miserable just because of how fucking dumb it is. It's the Griselchimp of fair decks. Allows complete chimpanzees to just ignore their opponent completely and just ravage people like the mongoloids that they are.

That said, leotard is just fucking miserable as well. The best chains variant ever printed, in blue, but not symmetrical, that also draws you cards. Seriously what the fucking shit. Fuck you wizards. Basically fuck this whole format at this point

Leovold is a good design in the absolute wrong colors. As a BW card we might be talking about 1-2 other decks added to Legacy as it would've allowed another axis to fight the cantrip-consistency engine other than just Chalice. The inexcusable part is that they KNEW this card would only ever be legal for serious constructed in Legacy, Vintage, and EDH. Well, it's already banned in EDH and while I don't think its quite bannable in Legacy and Vintage, it appearing in different colors would have lent some variety to the metagame rather than just slotting into the pretty stock BUG deck. It's been long enough since Chains and Rayne, Academy Chancellor that shifting those abilities to other colors would have been more interesting.

While there are good arguments for/against TNN, Goyf, Delver, and DRS, I'd like to add the Eldrazi to all of those. Almost all of them are shit for gameplay from Emrakul down to Eldrazi Mimic.

The right answer is probably fetchlands as they break pretty much everything and render the mana system almost meaningless.

[Jander78]

Was legacy a thing in 98? Def do not remember that

Kind of. It was called Type 1.5 at the time. Up until the separation of the lists, everything restricted in Vintage (then Type 1) was banned in what is now known as Legacy. Show and Tell was garbage until probably around 9-10 years ago.

[lordofthepit]

While there are good arguments for/against TNN, Goyf, Delver, and DRS, I'd like to add the Eldrazi to all of those. Almost all of them are shit for gameplay from Emrakul down to Eldrazi Mimic.

Ding, ding, ding!

If I wanted to make the format more interactive, I would ban the following:
1. Every Eldrazi besides Displacer
2. Show and Tell
3. Griselbrand
4. True-Name Nemesis

There are no reason for those cards to exist. Everything else that contributes to occasionally miserable experiences (e.g. Blood Moon, Chalice of the Void) at least punish greedy deckbuilding.

[ESG]

Ding, ding, ding!

If I wanted to make the format more interactive, I would ban the following:
1. Every Eldrazi besides Displacer
2. Show and Tell
3. Griselbrand
4. True-Name Nemesis

There are no reason for those cards to exist. Everything else that contributes to occasionally miserable experiences (e.g. Blood Moon, Chalice of the Void) at least punish greedy deckbuilding.

I agree with your picks except, of course, for Eldrazi. How is Thought-Knot Seer not interactive?

[Nuke is Good]

I haven't played Legacy for a while but during my stint of playing competitively two cards that drew a lot of my annoyance were:

Delver of Secrets and True Name Nemesis.

Why did Blue have access to the best evasive threat and early flying threat? But I never liked the idea of blue fair decks in general. I'm sure if I was still playing more I'd hate Leovold too.