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Thread: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

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    [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates



    "The event coverage team of the MKM Series was kind enough to give me all the decklists of their 437-player Legacy Main Event that took place in Frankfurt this Sunday (since this apparently was a question a lot of people had asked me: I only got them after the event was over.) Because this was the first giant tournament following the ban of Sensei’s Divining Top I thought it would be really important to post more than just the Top8 decklists MKM usually provides, so let’s do this! It took me something like forever to type (let alone read some players’ writing..) these out but it’s totally worth it. I decided to go with all 8-2 lists instead of the arbitrary Top32 cut we often see; the latter doesn’t really make sense since it also has a lot of 7-3 players, which basically extend all the way down to 63rd place. Another thing I also want to look into is the conversion rate into an 8-2 finish or better."

    Check out the article on: http://itsjulian.com/mkm-frankfurt-a...version-rates/

    Thanks,
    Julian
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
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    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Good breakdown Julian. I really wish more bigger events did this. Would be nice to see conversation rates over a long period rather than just a single event which could be an outlier. DNT probably suffers some splash damage from elves perceived being the best deck as well as having an absolutely horrid elves match up. It also should prey on the shitty grixis and 4 color mana bases, but I'm not sure how well they can fare when those decks can run so much efficient cheap removal combined with therapy to ravage stone forge
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Asked this question on Reddit, but I'll post it here too: Did any UWR Blade or other UWR strategy based lists stand out to you at all? I'm desperate here man =P
    Quote Originally Posted by B88 View Post

    People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Minniehajj View Post
    Asked this question on Reddit, but I'll post it here too: Did any UWR Blade or other UWR strategy based lists stand out to you at all? I'm desperate here man =P
    Something else I want to point out is that Stoneblade decks (most of them of the Bant Deathblade variety; one of them Griselbrand-Blade) not only had a ton of players, but also the second-best conversion rate of all the decks in the format, greatly outperforming Death & Taxes and Elves which had a similar number of players.
    You can play some shitblade in the meantime tho.

    1 Vendilion Clique
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    3 True-Name Nemesis
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawa’s Jitte
    1 Sword of Feast and Famine
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    2 Supreme Verdict
    1 Counterspell
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Moorland Haunt
    1 Karakas
    2 Plains
    2 Arid Mesa
    3 Polluted Delta
    4 Island
    3 Tundra
    4 Flooded Strand

    SB
    1 Humility
    2 Disenchant
    2 Rest in Peace
    1 Surgical Extraction
    2 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Path to Exile
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Esper's playstyle is a bit too proactive for my tastes, but I definitely read what he said. And yeah...shitblade :(.
    Last edited by Julian23; 05-03-2017 at 10:13 AM. Reason: Don't quote people directly above you unless you're referring to specific points they made.
    Quote Originally Posted by B88 View Post

    People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    In my experience Death&Taxes has suffered a lot over the last ~6 months, eventually arriving with its current version at being borderline unplayable. People were somewhat blinded by all the new and shiny toys it got, and the deck itself has a very high skill-ceiling, allowing great players to still prosper, but in general it's much worse positioned now that it used to be ~1 year ago. Even Marius Hausmann stopped playing the deck ~2 months ago because he couldn't take it anymore.
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    In my experience Death&Taxes has suffered a lot over the last ~6 months, eventually arriving with its current version at being borderline unplayable. People were somewhat blinded by all the new and shiny toys it got, and the deck itself has a very high skill-ceiling, allowing great players to still prosper, but in general it's much worse positioned now that it used to be ~1 year ago. Even Marius Hausmann stopped playing the deck ~2 months ago because he couldn't take it anymore.
    Can't this be said about most decks in Legacy though?

    I think in general most non[blue, chalice, combo] playing decks have gotten hurt by some of the printings in the last 5 or so years of Legacy. It really feels like if you aren't playing brainstorm you absolutely either need to be playing chalice or a combo deck.

    That list isn't esper btw, I think straight UW has the tools to deal with everything in the format and that B doesn't really offer anything worthwhile minus perish/deluge and souls. It's probably quite an experience to play control decks that has weaknesses.

    edit: I think that Bant is probably the most competitive stoneblade variant right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    In my experience Death&Taxes has suffered a lot over the last ~6 months, eventually arriving with its current version at being borderline unplayable. People were somewhat blinded by all the new and shiny toys it got, and the deck itself has a very high skill-ceiling, allowing great players to still prosper, but in general it's much worse positioned now that it used to be ~1 year ago. Even Marius Hausmann stopped playing the deck ~2 months ago because he couldn't take it anymore.
    D&T suffers because it still lacks proper card filtering. Yes, Recruiter is nice and all, but you can't afford to run more than two copies due to its high price and the decks lack of acceleration. The 3cc spot is simply too crowded. The consistency issues are the main reason I'm not planning to pick up the deck again anytime soon.

    It certainly doesn't help the deck either that most hate can't come online before T2 (which means you're boned against most combo decks on the play, especially the new, faster Storm variants) and that its worst match-up (Elves) just got a major boost due to Miracles been gone.

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Wow, thank you.

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    In my experience Death&Taxes has suffered a lot over the last ~6 months, eventually arriving with its current version at being borderline unplayable. People were somewhat blinded by all the new and shiny toys it got, and the deck itself has a very high skill-ceiling, allowing great players to still prosper, but in general it's much worse positioned now that it used to be ~1 year ago. Even Marius Hausmann stopped playing the deck ~2 months ago because he couldn't take it anymore.
    I think D&T was doing very well before the ban of miracles. The ban resulted in a bunch of bad match-ups becoming more prominent again, such as fast combo, true-name aggro and elves. It's wait and see how the meta will adapt to this change and whether D&T lists can adapt in turn. The deck has gotten a lot of good tools the last few years, but none of them have seen a meta not dominated by miracles.

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Time to try the black splash again? Gives you T1 combo protection, a draw engine, and tools to fight Elves and TNN like Perish and Zealous Persecution.
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    Can't this be said about most decks in Legacy though?

    I think in general most non[blue, chalice, combo] playing decks have gotten hurt by some of the printings in the last 5 or so years of Legacy. It really feels like if you aren't playing brainstorm you absolutely either need to be playing chalice or a combo deck.

    That list isn't esper btw, I think straight UW has the tools to deal with everything in the format and that B doesn't really offer anything worthwhile minus perish/deluge and souls. It's probably quite an experience to play control decks that has weaknesses.

    edit: I think that Bant is probably the most competitive stoneblade variant right now.
    I think Lingering Souls is really good right now. No 4x sweeper decks to make your spirits disappear. Lots of spot removal that it laughs at. Flies over TNN carrying equipment. Yes, deathrite shaman, but if that hasn't eaten an STP by the time you're casting souls you're in bad shape anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    Time to try the black splash again? Gives you T1 combo protection, a draw engine, and tools to fight Elves and TNN like Perish and Zealous Persecution.
    Don't forget Kambal! One day...

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    It's kind of surprising that so few people (some number less than 9) piloted Eldrazi. Makes sense on a level, but still interesting.

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Hey Julian congrats on the top 8 bro! Great job as usual.

    Also does anyone know what the final card in the Deathblade player's SB was? http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/201...lm-stoneblade/

    I think its missing a card.

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by maharis View Post
    I think Lingering Souls is really good right now. No 4x sweeper decks to make your spirits disappear. Lots of spot removal that it laughs at. Flies over TNN carrying equipment. Yes, deathrite shaman, but if that hasn't eaten an STP by the time you're casting souls you're in bad shape anyway.



    Don't forget Kambal! One day...
    I always sneak a Kambal into every Junk deck I play. He did win me a match or two. God he would be super sick if he were 2 mana.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Que View Post
    Also does anyone know what the final card in the Deathblade player's SB was? http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/201...lm-stoneblade/

    I think its missing a card.
    I can't say for sure, but I was discussing the sb with him the day before the tournament. I think it's either a 3rd Thoughtseize or a 2nd Ethersworn Canonist.
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    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Really great to have this analysis Julian, thanks for the effort!

    And congrats on the overall WE performances, impressive!

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    D&T suffers because it still lacks proper card filtering. Yes, Recruiter is nice and all, but you can't afford to run more than two copies due to its high price and the decks lack of acceleration. The 3cc spot is simply too crowded. The consistency issues are the main reason I'm not planning to pick up the deck again anytime soon.

    It certainly doesn't help the deck either that most hate can't come online before T2 (which means you're boned against most combo decks on the play, especially the new, faster Storm variants) and that its worst match-up (Elves) just got a major boost due to Miracles been gone.
    I don't think card filtering is the issue. D&T has been good in the past without filters. Jund and Maverick had their day as kings with only GSZ and maybe a singleton Library to fix their draws. Consistency is not always better than raw power/value.

    D&T is struggling because the meta is currently flooded with combo; and combo has gotten faster (or Elfier). Things should settle down soon. Also D&T is one the more control-leaning decks in the format now. As the article suggests, a wide open format undergoing a major shift is hard for control to prepare for.
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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    I actually think actual "Control" is not viable in a format as powerful as Legacy. That's more of a pipe dream. Even when we had Landstill, one of the most controlish decks in history, it had an abyssmal combo matchup, and that was long before Griselbrand boosted combo like nothing before it.
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    I actually think actual "Control" is not viable in a format as powerful as Legacy.
    Sadly I think it's gone the way of aggro.

    I don't think it's an issue of the format's overall power level. More a question of where the power is concentrated. Legacy has been pumped up with midrange value for so many years, while control gets shit because MaRo thinks even Desert is "harsh and unforgiving"
    Supremacy 2020 is the modern era game of nuclear brinksmanship! My blog:
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    You can play Lands.dec in EDH too! My primer:
    http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...lara-lands-dec

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