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Thread: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

  1. #41
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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    This is maybe somewhat of a shameless plug, and the deck itself may be too slow for Legacy these days, but BUG Intuition/Loam control (link to the thread in my sig) is a hard control deck that has some similar features to Miracles in the sense that it has a soft lock vs combo with Raven's Crime + Life from the Loam, and inevitability with either Worm Harvest or Depths/Stage.

    It has tools to fight most things, with Burn/Sligh/UR Delver being the hardest matchups, but I think the pile could be refined to be at least somewhat competitive against most of the format.

    Basically, what I am saying is, I don't believe hard control is dead in the format, but I do think that it's going to take a while before one emerges. The biggest challenge I see is with finishing games on time. Miracles had the ability to not go to time with competent pilots because Entreat/Mentor had amazing closing speed (for a Control deck), whereas something like the current suite of Planeswalkers are a really slow way to close a game out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  2. #42
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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by JDK View Post
    Not only that, but while Miracles, Delver, BGx (Decay, DRS, Leovold), Elves and WW (Cavern) all got pretty blunt and brutal tools, Landstill did not. It's a fun deck, but it got left behind...hard. It's like Cinderella without a Faerie or a happy end. A step-child in a world full of spoilt brats.
    Elves has a pretty hard time incorporating Cavern bigtime. The mana base is impressively rickety and inflexible for what is essentially a monocolored deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  3. #43

    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by JDK View Post
    Not only that, but while Miracles, Delver, BGx (Decay, DRS, Leovold), Elves and WW (Cavern) all got pretty blunt and brutal tools, Landstill did not. It's a fun deck, but it got left behind...hard. It's like Cinderella without a Faerie or a happy end. A step-child in a world full of spoilt brats.
    U/B Landstill got Fatal Push as well as things like Deluge and Flusterstorm. I like Landstill decks to be two colors only, and U/B has seemed pretty strong in the testing I've done so far.

  4. #44
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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_D View Post
    U/B Landstill got Fatal Push as well as things like Deluge and Flusterstorm. I like Landstill decks to be two colors only, and U/B has seemed pretty strong in the testing I've done so far.
    I'm still skeptical that UB is better than UW. Swords to Plowshares is a better removal spell than Fatal Push for a control deck. Lifeloss is relevant to a control deck too, and for 1 more mana, you get an uncounterable Damnation instead of Toxic Deluge. I also think Humility is a really powerful card in Legacy right now, should you resolve it (or put it into play for free via an opponent's Show and Tell).
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  5. #45

    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    I'm still skeptical that UB is better than UW. Swords to Plowshares is a better removal spell than Fatal Push for a control deck. Lifeloss is relevant to a control deck too, and for 1 more mana, you get an uncounterable Damnation instead of Toxic Deluge. I also think Humility is a really powerful card in Legacy right now, should you resolve it (or put it into play for free via an opponent's Show and Tell).
    That's a good point, I haven't tried U/W yet. I like to play Landstill with only 2 colors due to how many colorless lands you play. U/B also gets Tar Pit and Edict, but I'm not sure if that's better than just playing swords and verdict like you mentioned.

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    I also think Humility is a really powerful card in Legacy right now, should you resolve it (or put it into play for free via an opponent's Show and Tell).
    Made even better when people misunderstand how Mishra's Factory works with Humility.
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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    Elves has a pretty hard time incorporating Cavern bigtime. The mana base is impressively rickety and inflexible for what is essentially a monocolored deck.
    And yet it's a card which makes your control elements worse, unless you have access to a 1-mana Wrath or a flexible infinite counterspell engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_D View Post
    U/B Landstill got Fatal Push as well as things like Deluge and Flusterstorm.
    BUG Decks got access to those as well, in addition to the other, really busted 'new' cards. Besides, Push essentially doesn't do much more than a Bolt in most situations (and it slows down your clock).

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Made even better when people misunderstand how Mishra's Factory works with Humility.
    Or magus under humility, or layers in general.

    Agreed on the humility comment though, I think it's very very good right now considering the most played form of enchantment removal only targets things <=3 cmc.
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    My original post did that.

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    Re: [Article] MKM Frankfurt – Top23 Decklists & Conversion Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    This is maybe somewhat of a shameless plug, and the deck itself may be too slow for Legacy these days, but BUG Intuition/Loam control (link to the thread in my sig) is a hard control deck that has some similar features to Miracles in the sense that it has a soft lock vs combo with Raven's Crime + Life from the Loam, and inevitability with either Worm Harvest or Depths/Stage.

    It has tools to fight most things, with Burn/Sligh/UR Delver being the hardest matchups, but I think the pile could be refined to be at least somewhat competitive against most of the format.

    Basically, what I am saying is, I don't believe hard control is dead in the format, but I do think that it's going to take a while before one emerges. The biggest challenge I see is with finishing games on time. Miracles had the ability to not go to time with competent pilots because Entreat/Mentor had amazing closing speed (for a Control deck), whereas something like the current suite of Planeswalkers are a really slow way to close a game out.
    Well, there's a lot of space between "dead" and "not automatically favored against almost every deck"

    Miracles was the latter, and now that it's gone, control decks that aren't 60%+ vs the format will emerge. There is still plenty of room for slower decks but you aren't just going to derp into a win as often with them. Winning with a control deck will once again reward deckbuilding choices and metagame knowledge, as well as in-game play skill, rather than resolving haymaker after haymaker.

    Personally I find it a lot more rewarding and the BUG deck you're talking about sounds like a ton of fun.

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