Hour of Devastation [HOU]

[Mr. Safety]

I guess I don't see the point in a 3 mana Wrath where you spend the next turn handicapped too badly to maintain the tempo swing

THIS, all day long. Even Pox players can play, you know, POX, and get a lot more for one card.

[Megadeus]

Wheel or twister at 4 are fine. Diminishing return already exist.

Bontu's reckoning is decent but deluge is better in too many cases, life total matter less than losing a whole turn of tempo in like 90% of cases in legacy, then add the fact that deluge can be asymmetric and it's easier to cast. Unless burn become a significant part of the metagame, and even then, losing a turn of tempo is deceptively backbreaking a lot of times.

Yeah but at 4 it's probably not a playable effect

[Sylphnir]

I have no idea what Marvel is, outside of a wonder creator of fantastic movies and comics.

Just in case you really don't know and feel the desire to change that:
It's proclaimed the strongest standard deck atm, designed to spin Aetherworks Marvel to slam some Ulamogs (with cast trigger) from turn 4 upwards.
It took the place of the Saheeli+Felidar Guardian deck post ban as the defining combo deck of the format. The rest of the deck is 3-5 color goodstuff and energy producers.
It works reasonably well but people really don't like the RNG aspect of it.


On topic: for a character whose defining trait is speed and whose combat style is associated with dancing, Samut sure is super clumsy.
I actually checked the collector number to make sure she isn't the PW Deck version...

[Megadeus]

Just in case you really don't know and feel the desire to change that:
It's proclaimed the strongest standard deck atm, designed to spin Aetherworks Marvel to slam some Ulamogs (with cast trigger) from turn 4 upwards.
It took the place of the Saheeli+Felidar Guardian deck post ban as the defining combo deck of the format. The rest of the deck is 3-5 color goodstuff and energy producers.
It works reasonably well but people really don't like the RNG aspect of it.


On topic: for a character whose defining trait is speed and whose combat style is associated with dancing, Samut sure is super clumsy.
I actually checked the collector number to make sure she isn't the PW Deck version...

I looked yesterday and Marvel is almost 40% of the standard meta apparently

[tescrin]

I looked yesterday and Marvel is almost 40% of the standard meta apparently

They really need standard sets again. A needle effect (new or old) would give decks an adequate hoser to both this AND the banned strategy (saheeli cats) and badda-bing; things are interesting maybe?

I really think that's about their only issue in standard. They don't want people to have answers that were readily available to standard formats before. Even when Bolt got nerfed, Shock was evergreen. Black always had a good, 2 mana, instant speed removal. White always had a 4-5 mana sweeper. And answers that were less flavorful could be stuck in the standard set. I can understand the tension of escalating boardstates, but then effects like this become difference-makers. Hell, even just putting Bind in would be great, and probably good for modern too.

[Darkenslight]

It seems that Wizard's has learnt that wraths need to be both in Standard and playable. After all the recent shit that happened, that is a good sign for the direction of the game. Also I like it, lowering the cost to cast but effectively doubling the cost. That spell is in effect 6 mana at its lowest but you don't notice that at first. Good design.

It may also be a preview to a non-keyworded mechanic, as it's basically exert for your lands.

[Claymore]

I think the Wrath is playable, especially in control decks that utilize mana rocks (UB Tezz). A turn 4 board wipe is often too slow now. Doesn't force your life total low like multiple Deluges. And you can T3 Bontu, T4 drop a land and have 1 mana interaction.

I think it's harsh but playable. The 'exert your lands' design is very interesting.

[Megadeus]

I think the Wrath is playable, especially in control decks that utilize mana rocks (UB Tezz). A turn 4 board wipe is often too slow now. Doesn't force your life total low like multiple Deluges. And you can T3 Bontu, T4 drop a land and have 1 mana interaction.

I think it's harsh but playable. The 'exert your lands' design is very interesting.

It would be cool if it were like give -2 -2 or "exert your lands" destroy all creatures instead

[tescrin]

It would be cool if it were like give -2 -2 or "exert your lands" destroy all creatures instead

Something else interesting about it is that this is the second black wrath (Yahenni's Expertise gives -3/-3) in a couple sets. Sounds like they're accepting that (with downsides) as more of a thing again. IIRC they strayed from that for awhile since it's more of a white characteristic. I could be way off

[Barook]

If they go back to cheaper Wraths, can we please go back to quality 1-drop mana dorks as well? I really miss them.

It's still funny how all of their recent design decisions backfired hard and now they're backpedaling everywhere.

[MorphBerlin]

No sir. Deluge is great, but if you draw it when you really need a wrath to save your life, you'll often run into times where you cannot cast it because it'll kill you. This bad boy never has that problem. You can literally ALWAYS pay tempo in exchange for a 2-for-1 (or better!) if you have to.

Oh gosh, people freaking out in spoiler season again... What I read in this threat of what will take over legacy is so funny^^

Wann take a bet on this? Seems totally great when you play this on t3 and get time walked while your opponent rebuilds his board

[Crimhead]

If they go back to cheaper Wraths, can we please go back to quality 1-drop mana dorks as well? I really miss them.

What?

We have Hierarch & DRS. I think we are okay for 1-drop mana dorks.

Meanwhile, ~25 years into the game we can't get a discount on Wrath without a serious drawback. WotC sure love creatures.

[Barook]

Meanwhile, ~25 years into the game we can't get a discount on Wrath without a serious drawback.

*cough* Terminus *cough*

[Darkenslight]

*cough* Terminus *cough*

That's not a wrath, that's a broken-ass interaction with the top of your deck. Plus, it tucks your DRS to bed.

[Crimhead]

*cough* Terminus *cough*

In a post-SDT environment, it has yet to be established that the restrictive alt-cost condition is not a significant draw-back.

@Darkenslight, I feel we should at least wait for Terminus to prove itself competitively viable before we start thowing around terms lime "broken".

[Secretly.A.Bee]

This "Bontu's Damnation" will see play somewhere, but its likely not in legacy unless its in Pox, which, lets face it, isn't really on the map right now. Sure its fast, but do you really want to spend six mana on it? Early, its a time walk for your opponent. Late, its only better than Deluge/Damnation if you play Sword of Feast and Famine or if your life is really low, and even then, its still just a wrath effect that Damnation would have been equal to at that stage of the game anyway. Its decent for modern 8Rack. Thats where ill play it, anyway.

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[Ace/Homebrew]

Its decent for modern 8Rack. Thats where ill play it, anyway.

You think?
Against any opponent going wide, Flaying Tendrils is better (exiles, dodges anti-black, AND let's you untap).

I think this card will see Standard play because of a lack of alternatives.

[s&s]

3 mana unconditional wrath. Um.

This card is really, really good ya'll.

No its not.

Other formats have superior sweepers such as deluge and damnation, meaning this card will (might) see play in standard, where sweltering suns is a stronger option, hitting 95% (99%?) of the creatures Bontu's does in the early game, without timewalking yourself and offering cycling as additional benefit.

Looking at the standard metagame, this card is bad against Mardu vehicles (heart of kiran and gideon will have a laugh at you), bad against temur energy (swipe board on T3, watch them play their bristling hydra, get timewalked), blue red control (not enough creatures), you want to board it out against temur marvel... standard decks generally have 0-3 creatures with thoughness > 4, so if you can do RR and want a sweeper, you want sweltering suns over Bontu's all day long.

[s&s]

I think the Wrath is playable, especially in control decks that utilize mana rocks (UB Tezz). A turn 4 board wipe is often too slow now. Doesn't force your life total low like multiple Deluges. And you can T3 Bontu, T4 drop a land and have 1 mana interaction.

Tezzeret decks don't play 1 mana interaction. You know, since they run 4 chalices and all that.

[frafen]

The new wrath looks good, In my opinion its power level is close to deluge and damnation.