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Thread: Thought Experiment

  1. #1
    Bob Ross
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    Thought Experiment

    So this idea came to me when I finally got around to updating my Vintage Wheels deck after the Gitaxian Probe restriction.

    I was wondering how much of a favorite I would be at GP Vegas if I were allowed to play this deck, when everyone else was preparing for the Legacy GP as if it were a normal GP.

    Basically I'm just curious about the following: Someone comes up to you and says "Hey, you can play in the Legacy Main event and you are allowed to use the Vintage B&R list, but you have to win the entire thing or insert whatever bad scenario you choose happens to you. (I figured the pure Vintage BR would be better than a weird hybrid combo BR where probe/brainstorm/ponder unrestricted since it would keep your deck full vintage).

    What Vintage deck would perform best for the Legacy meta? What do you decide to play and why?
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    Re: Thought Experiment

    Either Dredge of Shops, I guess. Legacy doesn't have enough hate for either.
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  3. #3
    Bob Ross
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    Re: Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Either Dredge of Shops, I guess. Legacy doesn't have enough hate for either.
    Probably true. Both are broken as fuck I'm just curious if they would be the best choice to have to go 13-2 (or better) to make top 8. My initial thought was something like TPS or some storm/gush deck that supports forces. Mainly because I could see both decks getting randomly screwed by non-blue variance or even not be able to race a t1 delver once or get stomped by a skilled Ant pilot

    Although Vintage dredge knowing it only has to really prep for deathrites and surgicals as the hate would probably be laughable
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    Re: Thought Experiment

    Oath is probably best since it would have less chance to die to oops all cheese and other t0 wins. I'd personally play 4 top predict miracles just to trigger legacy players PTSD

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    Re: Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by contra View Post
    Oath is probably best since it would have less chance to die to oops all cheese and other t0 wins. I'd personally play 4 top predict miracles just to trigger legacy players PTSD
    Nah, just play Dredge with Forces and Missteps.

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    You'd probably be about 90% versus the field.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Thought Experiment

    I am biased as all fuck, but likely Shops. There are few decks that can match Shops once the spheres start locking the game down.

    If you told me I had to play a deck though and where not threatening me with something terrible, I would likely play Kevin Cron's Paradoxical Storm. Mentor, Paradoxical Outcome and Force backed up with Mental Misstep. I think that could hold its own in Legacy without much of a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Nah, just play Dredge with Forces and Missteps.
    I have built that before, it's very boring to play.
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    Re: Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Nah, just play Dredge with Forces and Missteps.
    nah, gy hate is just as strong in legacy as vintage, and maybe even more prominent.

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    Re: Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by contra View Post
    nah, gy hate is just as strong in legacy as vintage, and maybe even more prominent.
    No, it's not. In Vintage it's common to start at 6 pieces of grave hate and move up from there. Vintage Dredge, expescially with the Dark Depths transformational sideboard, would be outrageously broken in Legacy.

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    Re: Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    No, it's not. In Vintage it's common to start at 6 pieces of grave hate and move up from there. Vintage Dredge, expescially with the Dark Depths transformational sideboard, would be outrageously broken in Legacy.
    no doubt it'd be broken, but legacy has the same gy hate available as vintage. Leyline hits just as hard coming from 1.5 as it does from vintage.

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    Re: Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by contra View Post
    no doubt it'd be broken, but legacy has the same gy hate available as vintage. Leyline hits just as hard coming from 1.5 as it does from vintage.
    I agree that the access is the same, but the penetration is not. I can sit down across from someone in Vintage and expect that their sideboard has 10 cards set aside for Shops/Dredge and then the rest. They will have hate for Dredge. Everyone will.

    Legacy, you have the same access to cards, but the amount of cards you would expect to face will be significantly lower. Sure, Leyline exists, but I would be suprised if 1 deck in 15 has a playset in their 75 in Legacy. Would would be suprised if that number is lower than 1 in 4 in Vintage.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
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    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
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    Re: Thought Experiment

    I don't think Dredge or Shops would even drop a game in a legacy event.

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    Re: Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by contra View Post
    nah, gy hate is just as strong in legacy as vintage, and maybe even more prominent.
    2-3 pieces of interaction is not enough to beat dredge.

  13. #13

    Re: Thought Experiment

    What's Squee for in that Dredge list?

  14. #14

    Re: Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by contra View Post
    nah, gy hate is just as strong in legacy as vintage, and maybe even more prominent.
    I guess you have never seen what a turn 1 Bazaar does.
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  15. #15
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    Re: Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by Moosedog View Post
    I don't think Dredge or Shops would even drop a game in a legacy event.
    That was my initial thought as well, but when I started thinking about it more I'm not entirely sure how well either could handle Show and Chimp. Mainly because yea dredge is impossible to interact with, but every turn 1 is still only laying down a bazaar and passing. That's why I guessed that a more traditional "broken" deck that was playing discard and fow like a tendrils list might work best in a purely legacy tourney.
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    Re: Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    That was my initial thought as well, but when I started thinking about it more I'm not entirely sure how well either could handle Show and Chimp. Mainly because yea dredge is impossible to interact with, but every turn 1 is still only laying down a bazaar and passing. That's why I guessed that a more traditional "broken" deck that was playing discard and fow like a tendrils list might work best in a purely legacy tourney.
    Yeah but you could run a build that runs unmask maindeck and have turn one interaction

  17. #17

    Re: Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by Rampart View Post
    Yeah but you could run a build that runs unmask maindeck and have turn one interaction
    Dredge actually has a ton of free slots that they can use to tune what they want to be best against. Unmask, Force of Will, Mental Misstep, and Leyline of the Void are all played in various lists (some maindeck, some sideboard).

    I'd probably play dredge, but I'd be sorely tempted to run Burning Oath. I'm a sucker for Yawgmoth's Will. While not a current tier 1 deck, I think it's actually better suited to the metagame than something like a DPS without probe or Paradoxical Storm. For that matter, I don't know many decks that can reliably beat a handful of tutors, Oath of Druids, 4 Forbidden Orchard, and Forces/Thoughtseizes/Missteps. The highest win percentage would probably be something that minimizes the likelihood of dropping games to a stray belcher deck.
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