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Thread: Quellblade

  1. #21
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    Re: Quellblade

    @tescrin:
    From the DTB, I'd test a bunch against Grixis Tempo, UR Delver, and definitely Elves, furthermore Infect, Foodchain, and Eldrazi Stompy.

  2. #22
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    Re: Quellblade

    Starting with worst/least tested:

    I think Eldrazi Stompy is somewhere between average and really bad, based on whether or not they land the T1 chalice and/or I have the Force. Without the chalice, Plows and BSK and Blossom are fine. With the chalice, I think I'll be a turn behind where I'll need to be. I expect it's one of the negatives; especially since I don't pack answers for Chalice or Daze to punish greedy plays.

    I've just had one match with Food Chain (2-1) so it needs lots more testing. It lines up really well against Queller, so both games I won were on a Tempo approach of letting them recast Misthollow's over and over between me plowing and quelling them and just barely holding off food Chain via Canonist or repeated-countering.

    I had a few with Infect in the early stages of design and it was very positive, but it's been a bit and it's hard to say if things are better or worse now. I expect since it's combo oriented it'll be fine still, and the sideboard is fairly unkind to it (Eplague, Darkblast, 2x Needle, 2x Canonist, 1x Tutor.) If you've ever had a Canonist out against them, you'll find it's very hard to lose at that point. I'd be curious to see where G1's are at, but I think their main out is Agent and Berserk.

    IME, the non-BUG Delvers have been easy MUs (2-0 matches against Grixis, 1-0 match against UR, 1-0 against UB or Grixis; didn't find out), since they can't deal with Blossom and they walk into Spellstutter constantly. The 3x Basics and DRS don't hurt, and having my own Stifles for their lands/wastelands has been good.

    Elves has been *absurdly good*. In the last month or so I've gone 4-0 in matches, 8-1 in games vs Elves; the game I dropped they not only went nuts on board; but I also brainstormed a Sprite or something away and had no blue card for FoW . The side has a lot of hate (some of it incidental) and the main's 14 counters do alright*; though they have to line up properly. The mass of Flyers + Jitte/SoFaI makes a pretty reliable (if slow) game. If anything, I should consider finding ways to make the sideboard less hateful to Elves, and pivot towards Reanimator, Eldrazi, BUG Delver, or other oddities. I am still pretty skeptical of the Humility, but I'm hoping an uptick in Sneakshow may happen and it'll pay itself off..

    *[DCharm for GSZ/NO, Queller for Glimpse/NO, Stutter for Glimpse/Dudes (sort of like extra removal), Forces are preferably saved for GSZ X=6+ and hard-casted fat, but is really any "I'm gonna lose" spell such as GSZ getting Rec-sage for your Jitte, potentially.]
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  3. #23
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    Re: Quellblade

    Playing a bunch of MTGO but I'm finding the interface super clunky and I feel like I'm losing a lot of seconds/minutes to lag and missed priority switches. Nothing interesting to report other than I lost to enchantress, haha.

    I'm mostly posting to say I did go deep and I'm beginning to grind; but unfortunately it'll take a bit to become proficient with this interface. I lost a full minute or two to trying to get Snapcaster's trigger to work properly. It just wouldn't resolve! So yeah; being a huge noob doesn't help.

    Anyway, once that's going alright I'll be doing some Legacy Challenges. Thanks for your patience ;), I'm hoping to do a local on Thursday, and may also on Sat to make up for the downtime.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  4. #24
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    Re: Quellblade

    I need to give tescrin's build a try, but the general outline of the deck I've been running in UW is very similar and I've been getting comparable results. The deck is quite strong across the board to the point where I don't think it has any unwinnable (or even noteworthy poor) matchups. Even Lands isn't that bad since Queller circumvents all of their recursion engines.

  5. #25

    Re: Quellblade

    Any room for a 1-of Gurmag Angler/Tasigur/Tombstalker? It shouldn't make your Snapcaster and DRS too much worse, and I could see the deck using an additional beater which dodges Abrupt Decay, Punishing Fire and Fatal Push.

  6. #26
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    Re: Quellblade

    Quote Originally Posted by btm10 View Post
    I need to give tescrin's build a try, but the general outline of the deck I've been running in UW is very similar and I've been getting comparable results. The deck is quite strong across the board to the point where I don't think it has any unwinnable (or even noteworthy poor) matchups. Even Lands isn't that bad since Queller circumvents all of their recursion engines.
    MTGO is illuminating some bad MUs, but that's what I was hoping. Enchantress (with the sideboard) is pretty bad; and the chalice/moon decks aren't great, as a blue deck would expect. In MTGO I've swapped Humility and Darkblast to 2xSerenity to start with, as if I could just get them to *quit it* for a second, I think I'd have gotten there haha.

    Regular Fair MUs (4-0) - Gobbos, Esper Control/Mentor, DGA-Humans?, Grxis. Combo I've done a bit worse, but I think it's been a mix of poor sideboarding decisions, bad mana management, and the interface screwing me up: 3-3 +Infect, +Reanimator, +Doomsday, -Aluren, -Aluren, -Infect

    I don't think Aluren is bad; I think it was just bad play; which I feel I play a lot worse on MTGO atm.


    On MTGO I may swap the Stifles back to Dazes; given the number of obnoxious things that want to be countered and the lack of effectiveness in that meta. I can say, however, that while it's reasonable practice that he plethora of MUs that are just wacky and/or lame is pretty insane. While those 10 above were "normal", the other 8 were:
    * Enchantress x3
    * Blue Eldrazi (lots of tokens)
    * Eldrazi Stompy with Legends + EoUgin
    * MUD Prison with Tabernacles and main'd Winter Orbs
    * Moon Stompy (13+ lock pieces)
    * Patriot Walkers

    so 44% so far has been really obnoxious for the deck the way they line up. I still think, in a meta that plays more like Legacy normally does.. the deck seems good haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karhumies View Post
    Any room for a 1-of Gurmag Angler/Tasigur/Tombstalker? It shouldn't make your Snapcaster and DRS too much worse, and I could see the deck using an additional beater which dodges Abrupt Decay, Punishing Fire and Fatal Push.
    I've tried a Tasigur as #61 and actually liked Stifle #4 better. He (or another) may be better than Charm, a Stifle, or similar, I just haven't had good luck with them. I started out running 2x Stalker, and found it didn't help a ton due to requiring BB (which otherwise this deck avoids.) He's not bad, I can see brewing with Stalkers especially.

    I'll say that a Delve guy (or Murderous Cut in place of one Plow) would be helpful in getting rid of Blossoms in the grave.


    EDIT: tonights MUs were odd; I went 3-1
    BR Welder Reanimator Hybid 2-1
    BR Reanimator 0-2
    BR Reanimator 2-1
    BR Goblins 2-1

    On reanimator: Despite having 6 "you can't do grave stuff" cards, it wasn't until the last 2 of those 8 games that I saw any, but they were obviously quite nice when I did. BR Welder/Reanimator was mostly done via Plows, Forces, and DRS. The one I lost to the Hybrid was a fast Inkwell that I think I could've countered, but I had a Plow ready. I countered the first thing that I could've plowed, and was left with a plow against Inkwell. Derp!

    The next two losses were a "I have the perfect hand forever" G1, and G2 I lost to an Archtype of Endurance by 1 HP (he finally got a grisel up while I was swinging for 3 a turn and he was swinging into faeries.) Sad times. Had I not blocked with a faerie on his first swing (or second, i forget) I could've dropped my clock by 2-ish turns, which would've won it. I was supposed to be just slightly more aggressive I guess :(.

    Notes:
    * Animate Dead IS a trigger (I wasn't sure until today since I don't normally have Stifle nor have I cared) so keeping Stifles for that and Grisel-Draw seems fine
    * Gobbos felt solid. The game I dropped was G1 where he dropped a Sparksmith (?) who shoots your guys a lot. That was no good. Priests and Needles were good here too :D
    * I casted Brainstorms or things into Chancellor triggers each time so I could ready whatever my follow up was.
    * Countering Entomb is probably good post-board, rather than trying to "get 'em." Reason being if it was something that *wasn't* archtype he got reanimated, I was sitting on Plow for the rest of the game. Sad times.
    Last edited by tescrin; 06-27-2017 at 11:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  7. #27
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    Re: Quellblade

    Hi tescrin, I'm on board as well, I've been trying this for awhile but I've hardly visited the forums lately. I used to play BUG based decks, and messed a bit with spirit blade (judges familiar Mausoleum wandered and spell queller) before finding out that cutting flying cursecatchers and aether vials isn't a bad thing at all. So it's nice to know someone else is trying this.

    Now looking at your list my current iteration has some differences. I don't like dimir charms and cut them, they feel a little clunky. I tried the 4th stifle and the riptide lab before. Hated them both. I found myself clumping on stifles more often than not, so I'm playing with 3 now. The lab hardly did work, even in long grindy games vs control for me. I tried jamming in the 4th blossom and it didn't perform too badly, but still removed it and stuck with 3. I have a 1 of detention sphere in the main which is pretty mvp. Never upset to draw it and plenty of blowout potential. It is for problem permanents that get past our flier disruption and regularly hits 2/3 for 1, even though a 1 for 1 isn't bad.. I think swords to plowshares should be upped to 4, this is a sacred cow for me and is non negotiable. You really want to get rid of a t1 drs in a hurry, also t1 mother of runes, noble hierarch, goblin lackey, goblin guide/swiftspear and the like.

    For the sb, I would like to recommend manriki gusari because of how bad we are at equipment wars. This helps against all flavours of blade decks and dnt, and is a little more versatile than dread of night if your gripe is dnt (without hurting your own SQ and sfm). I have some decisions on sb that I'm a little iffy on. Currently it's:
    1 e tutor
    2 pithing needle
    2 containment priest
    2 ethersworn canonist
    1 manriki
    1 e plague
    1 cage
    1 rip
    1 chill
    1 humility
    2 ZP

    I used to have darkblast in there but ZP is just bonkers in a bitterblossom deck. You haven't lived if you haven't cast ZP in response to a orzhov pontiff. This also makes dread of night less necessary. One thing I'm uncertain about is whether or not to bring in humility against dnt. I usually cut 2 force of will, 2 queller, 1 sprite, 3 stifle for 2 ZP, 1 eplague, 1 manriki, 2 priest, 1 needle, 1 e tutor.

  8. #28
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    Re: Quellblade

    So is it fair to summarize as:
    -2 Charm, -1 Stifle, +1 DSphere, +1 Plow, +0-1 ? (to make 60?)

    And
    -1 Dread, -1 DBlast, -1 Tutor; +2 ZP, +1 Manriki ?


    I've really only had issues with Jitte; as BSK can be chumped until you have advantage, and their life total doesn't matter if you do round the corner. I think Needle->Jitte is a fine remedy. That said, looking for solutions to permanents seems good; but we knew that going in. I tried manriki a tiny bit, but it felt so low impact and unnecessary.

    I think swapping a DBlast to ZP is fair/good/better. I can justify swapping the second Tutor, but I really don't want to haha.
    I'll consider swapping +1 DSphere, +1 Plow, +1 ZP for -2 DCharm, -1 Stifle; and -1 DBlast, +1 ZP in the side.

    While it's true DoN loses value at that point, I really like that it beats mentor, and having 2 cards for beating mentor is good. The ZPs + DoN + Plague seems like it would definitely make D&T very good; as you only need to get that one swing with Jitte to close the game; and ZPs countering opposing ZPs is also good. The loss of DCharm against Elves (one of it's better MUs I think) is made up for by all the -1/-1 hate.


    _______________________________________________________
    I will say that the deck seems slightly heavy on 2-drops, and the early game (now that I've done a lot of matches) where you have push/pull to go for Stutter vs. Blossom vs. SFM is difficult. Blossom is normally the right call, but a Daze punishing you makes it feel terrible since Daze MUs are some where it shines. I think where I might want to fit something in is another Burn/UR Delver hate card. I got nailed pretty bad by UR Delver the other day. I find on MTGO I'm getting a lot of "1 land" hands, and I think it's just bad variance, because the math says 20% chance, and it feels like it's ~40% haha.

    Data for the last week that matters for aggro/combo:
    1-0 Affinity Control? (really close 2-1) (ballista, hangerback, tezz, jace, TKS)
    1-0 RUG or BURG Delver (he couldn't get anything going because we played a mana-screw game)
    1-0 UB Delver?
    2-0 Goblins (2-0, 2-1)
    2-0 Grixis (2-1, 2-0)
    1-0 Doomsday
    1-1 Infect (2-1, 0-2)
    1-1 Elves (2-0, like usual. This matchup is ridiculous lol)
    4-1 BR Reanimator (though the losses felt brutal. one may have been MonoB; it's hard to tell sometimes.)
    0-2 Aluren (I think greed was a factor)
    0-1 UR Delver (0-2)


    however the losses that "don't matter" but show the weaknesses of the deck:
    0-3 Enchantress
    0-1 Pox
    0-1 Rack/Red-permanents control (Eidolon, Pillar, etc..)
    0-1 Eldrazi with posts and big dudes
    0-1 Blue Eldrazi
    0-1 Eldrazi Stompy
    0-1 Big Red (or Red Stompy)
    0-1 Mud Prison


    So the deck seems pretty good against Aggro/Combo, OK against midrange/Control, and absolute garbage against permanent-based and/or anti-blue control hahah. That said, this is all MTGO online, in the "practice" room; so it only weighs so much. I'll start doing leagues in the next season (next week or so?) and I should be doing a local tonight for some more real data

    ____________________
    EDIT: I will eventually test out Collective Brutality's but they have not arrived. I don't know how good they'll be at sorcery speed, but I'm guessing they'll smooth out weird hands, or hands that line up poorly in some MUs. F.E. Queller felt quite bad against UR delver, but a Brutality pitching queller to kill a guy, take a card, and maybe gain HP, seems fine.
    Last edited by tescrin; 06-29-2017 at 05:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  9. #29
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    Re: Quellblade

    Hi tescrin,

    yes you summarized it very well. I'm 99% sure the dimir charms are wrong, and that 4 plow is right.
    61st slot cards i've tried: scion of oona (has flash, nice combat trick, protects spellstutter/bitterblossom tokens from removal, synergy with spellstutter pitches to fow, but ultimately too cute for my liking), misdirection (narrow but insane when its useful, as a one of its OK), 4th bitterblossom (pretty okay), 4th stifle (clunky), riptide laboratory (useless, this would have been good if we were a vial deck, unfortunately against a control deck where we get to 'abuse' it with sprite, they also get to 'abuse' stuff like snapcaster + counterspell and what not), 4th wasteland (correct in the right meta), echoing truth (unexciting although never really useless, there was a game i used it in a drs mirror in response to a removal on my drs, bouncing my own drs and his 2 drs, that one was funny), phantasmal image (high amusement value but not good in all seriousness), leovold (very meta dependent, dont fetch the tropical island unless you are casting leovold this turn), ponder (to smoothen draws), noble hierarch (another decent way to get a t2 SQ online, but that involves fetching a tropical island), favorable winds (this was funky but ended up being pitched to fow usually), nothing (I'm settled on this right now)

    If i were forced at gunpoint to play a 61st card it would be a close fight between the 4th bitterblossom and a 4th wasteland. Ultimately I would probably go with the 4th wasteland in an open meta. The 4th wasteland would give me extra room to wasteland aggressively against other wasteland decks. For example against DnT, they play 23 land, in a wasteland war with your 20 lander, 3 wasteland base vs a 23 lander, 4 wasteland base, things can get pretty hairy (they do have plow for your T1 drs sometimes, and we can't always rely on fow). Now if it were a 21 lander, 4 wasteland base vs a 23 lander, 4 wasteland base, it becomes a lot less risky to go after their lands etc. you also line up pretty well against some delver/drs matchups and you have a higher chance of the classic t2 dnt play that helps them be so good against greedy decks: wasteland your land, plow your drs, go (this has ended more than its fair share of games). I do face the same problems of seeing more 1 landers than I would have liked. I mulligan quite a lot, its a strange thing.

    Some lines that you might (or might not) have used:
    - Plows save your life when you're getting dangerously low on life (usually because you failed to win fast enough in a grindy matchup and bitterblossom is killing you). Plow your own creature if need be to buy a turn or two. Sometimes you're winning because your token is carrying a sword of fire and ice but you need a turn or 2 more to win before blossom kills you. In that case attack with the faerie carrying a sword, and then get ready to plow it if necessary.
    - Against dnt, if they attack with a critter holding a jitte while leaving mother of runes up and the critter doesn't need help from mother of runes to take down your blocker, chump and plow your own creature for a psuedo-stifle
    - detention sphere your own bitterblossom when you're dying to it (saved my life a couple times)

    Interesting cards I've stifled so far: Orzhov Pontiff (DnT - save your guys), Vampire Hexmage (BG Depths), Grave Titan (BR Reanimator - no free zombies), Emrakul (Omniscience - no extra turn, sneak and show, - annihilator), Snapcaster Mage (various), Ulamog the ceaseless Hunger (big eldrazi), Craterhoof Behemoth (elves), goblin sharpshooter (goblins), Engineered explosives (4c), veteran explorer (nic fit)

    Sideboard options I am thinking about (not necessarily will use them but these are on my mind):
    echoing truth (general utility spell that I didn't like in my main as a 61st, but maybe here?)
    disenchant (unexciting workhorse) / seal of cleansing (tutorable but used as a sorcery mainly)
    2nd detention sphere (loved the dsphere in the MD every time it arrived, maybe a 2nd one could shine too)
    runed halo (tutorable card that grants you protection against things like TNN, storm, delver, burn spells, eldrazi guys like TKS and reality smasher, the beauty of this card is that usually it is both preemptive as well as reactive, so for example you can cast it before your opponent lands his TNN, or after he has his TNN, the exception being tendrils of agony since you just die on the spot)
    favorable winds (thought about it after giving it a brief run as a 61st MD card, making SQ a 3/4 would mean it wins flipped delvers and is bolt proof, pitches to fow too, allowing bitterblossom tokens to trade with flipped delvers)
    solemnity (any vial deck, any planeswalker deck, any infect deck, absolutely bonkers -> not a matter of if, but when, because its not released yet)

    of these, solemnity, 2nd dsphere, runed halo are the ones I'm more compelled to try.

    whatever you do, nothing should be above 3 mana in this deck, we are already super taxed on our mana as it is.

    Drop me a PM, we should get in touch on some messaging app or something so communication is easier.

  10. #30
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    Re: Quellblade

    [pm sent]

    I think if you do a second DSphere, it may be in place of the Humility, because Humility is almost 100% for Sneakshow and I honestly haven't gotten to play against it (though I suspect it's favorable if they don't force-check us out the gate.) Plow/ZP/DSphere felt fine, it was only a couple matches though. I'll try and test online a bit with some of the ideas floating around once I compile a good list of ideas. I think the ZP will be good though.



    Tonight was just a 2-1; beat a DreadStill brew 2-0, Lands 2-1, lost to Bw Reanimator+HexDepths brew (he got a 5-0 the other day though?)

    Lands:
    G1: I never knew you could be force-checked by lands! haha. I don't have the force and his Manabond drops a perfect Marit Lage; I don't have the plow.
    G2: He keeps a slowish hand and I have Needle, DRS, fetch, and some other stuff. I get an early blossom online to stop a lage he's brewing. He sees the problem but has to deal with DRS, I quell his PFire and slow get him with Fae + Drs activations
    *Note!: Queller got to sit on that Pfire the whole game and he couldn't do anything about it hahah
    G3: I mull to Waste, DRS, fetch, waste, Blossom, Needle. He has an open waste so i play waste->needle on waste in case he'd kill the USea in response. I then play out DRS and Blossom and he assembles lock pieces. I drop another needle on Stage to keep myself safe and he has Sphere + 3Ball online. This is fine though because he loses if he can't assemble anything and he's slowing himself down. Stutters keep him from doing anything while he dies.
    One of these games I Quelled a Crop Rotation too; stopping a Lage, I think G3. Really funny since he sacc'd a land and had SoR and Trini problems.

    Bw Reanimator:
    G1: He gets a quick grisel that I kill. He gets a second one that brings Lage to the party. derp!
    G2: I don't 100% remember. I get a RiP online and a Blossom. He gets a Lage and goes for a Massacre. I cast Stutter and....! he has a darkblast, killing it and bringing me to 3 fae, massacreing my stuff and laging me. Arg.

    Dreadstill
    G1: I move to plow an early delver to curve out, and it gets dazed, but I get a blossom online for my troubles! This and a Queller or so grind him out pretty quick IIRC.
    G2: We have some exchange, but I believe I land a Priest T2 vs his unflipped delvers. I get a SFM with daze protection and fetch jitte. He gets a Lavaman online, but not in time. Priest and SFM swing with Jitte over the next couple turns, and Queller eats his only removal before he's locked out completely.


    Things felt good. I'll see if I can get to another local on Sat; but I may be lazy/drunk/tired haha. Will be gearing up for Leagues very soon and hopefully we can get a blip on the radar with a 5-0 soon! I'll update my online list with a few of these other choices.


    EDIT: Funny note on the Dreadstill guy; we're cordial but we both look at eachother's brewing funny. He's talking about all these complex interactions with Morph guys he likes with Illusionary Mask and whatnot, and I listen to a full schpeal, I talked a little about Queller and he just made faces about how mediocre it is haha; right after it helped beat him. I don't know why people hate the card so much.

    EDIT 2: Runed Halo actually seems pretty good, if possibly difficult to cast. Storm, Sneakshow (if they go Grisel), Reanimator, Lands (Lage), I will have to more seriously consider it. I like having "Must answer permanents" followed by Queller.
    Last edited by tescrin; 06-30-2017 at 11:41 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  11. #31
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    Re: Quellblade

    Quote Originally Posted by movingtonewao View Post
    One thing I'm uncertain about is whether or not to bring in humility against dnt. I usually cut 2 force of will, 2 queller, 1 sprite, 3 stifle for 2 ZP, 1 eplague, 1 manriki, 2 priest, 1 needle, 1 e tutor.
    Sorry, I never addressed this. I leave in Quellers since they are still flash guys who beat most of their guys. Whether he eats a spell or not (he does sometimes as they get greedy with Cavern) he still kills Mirran Crusader, Thaila GoT, and Wisp; which is a reasonable collection of things that kill you. I'd probably cut 2 Snapcaster (have to get to 4 mana to use his ability), 4 Force, 1 DSphere (costs 4). This gives you 1 Plague, 1 ZP (i put the second in the main after our other replies) 1 DoN (your zp#2), 2 Pithing Needle, 2 Containment Priest (has potential to be bad, but they have to cast Wisp, making it vulnerable.)

    It gives you 4 ways to turn off Vial, and 2 that can turn off Mom if she's being a pain and one of *four* sweepers aren't online. The needles are also stellar at shutting off Port or Wasteland depending on how weak your manabase is that game. Being able to turn off vial puts their stuff on the stack so Stutter and/or Queller are live again as CA. Keeping Stifles for Wastelands or SFMs/Germs is ok. Stifles are also good for keeping Wisp off your Queller or keeping their card out of play since they're expecting CA from the Wisp.

    My approach to them is to get them playing my game since it's out of their comfort zone, and reset their board here and there so it's high stakes. I think getting a Tutor in is correct, though I'm not sure where it'd be yet; possibly BSK since we're more likely to win off the other equips than by beatdown on the ground where protection is live.

    Lastly, IMO, don't bring in humility. While Blossom is decent here, Humility is very difficult to cast (WW, 5 mana), and you give up your protections (Queller/Sprite) against equips and similar. If they get a Jitte online under this lock then you just lose I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  12. #32
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    Re: Quellblade

    I get the feeling that i should be keeping in some number of FOW. I think postboard they start casting some haymakers that aren't creatures, such as Gideon AoZ, or CJ. Gideon AoZ in particular is one royal pain if you dont have a needle on the spot. Sometimes nabbing an early SFM is crucial too. Maybe the correct thing to do is to keep 1-2 FOW in when you are on the draw and cut them totally on the play. The Dsphere cut is probably correct, and costing 4 means it hardly gets to see play. I'll try your approach and see how this plays out. My gf is a dnt player so its not hard to get some games in.

  13. #33
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    Re: Quellblade

    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post
    [pm sent]

    EDIT 2: Runed Halo actually seems pretty good, if possibly difficult to cast. Storm, Sneakshow (if they go Grisel), Reanimator, Lands (Lage), I will have to more seriously consider it. I like having "Must answer permanents" followed by Queller.
    I'm going to test runed halo tonight and see how it goes. Oh yes, it doesn't work against lands because it can only name a card, not a token. Lands is pretty alright as long as you wasteland their tabernacle and queller their fire/life from the loam. I'm using it mainly because humility might be too slow against sneakshow (definitely too slow for reanimator) if you don't have it in hand when they cast the show and tell, and while its not spectacular in any one matchup it does have applications. Scenarios such as: you are dying to your own bitterblossom and your opponents 2 deathrites are aggressively shocking you, or, TNN carrying a jitte is hurting you badly, there are 1 or 2 counters on the jitte and ZP won't cut it so runed halo helps here. Lets see how it performs.

    runed halo into holding spell queller up seems like a recipe for success.

  14. #34
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    Re: Quellblade

    Tried out my first league, went 3-2; being Sneakshow (2-1), Grixis (2-0), and Maverick (2-1), losing to Storm (0-2, Bryant Cook) and Eldrazi Stompy (0-2)

    I don't think Storm is bad, I just got garbage hands and couldn't find a fetchland for my brainstorms today to save my life haha. Sneakshow's last game was close, only because it took all the way to the last turn to draw my Force, which got his S&T and I had backup for Daze/Spierce/Redblast. Didn't see anything but Pithing needles and carried both games on the back of dude with SoFaI attached. G3 he pitched most of his resources (2 mana sources, Force, blue card) for a blood moon on T1 or T2, and I just had to beat down with Snapcaster and Stutter a thing here and there.

    Maverick was super in my favor G1 (natural ZP hah!) G2 was probably winnable but I didn't counter a spell I should've and he started coming back hard. I conceded and went to G3. G3 was a grind but I pretty much wiped him with Jitte after getting a 2 or 3 for 1 with a ZP, then blocking a GSZ with Priest, then plowing or Jitting any guy who got equipped.

    Grixis I just jammed 2-mana things that end the game until he couldn't deal with one; drop a Skull or Jitte, lock it up. Super easy and had extra spells in hands each time.

    Storm: Both games I had slow hands with mulligans, no fetches, and brainlocks. Very annoying games.
    Eldrazi: Abyssmal matchup the more I play it. If you get a hand with Plows and Blossom or BSK and they don't go Smasher; you're fine probably. Anything else and it's just bad.


    I've not been liking Snap much. I'm considering going either Ponder, Baleful Strix, or similar. I can count the number of times Snap has gotten me a spell worth mentioning in my 30+ matches. A couple plows, a couple Stifles, and that's about it. Mtgo is also giving me a boatload of 1-mana hands; but I still think it's bad luck because math says 20% and I've run a lot of decks before at 20 + 4 DRS. That said, swapping a pair of ponders for Snaps would give more early game plays, allow more hands to be keepable, and synergize with BS. I've gotten brainlock'd a lot recently, so I may have to add a 9th fetch too.

    Either way, a couple ponders could go a long way in stabilizing the deck and finding outs and Snap just feels like he has no text so often; between DRS's, the lack of spells in the deck, and the mana required. Going the opposite direction may also be fine. I think with the propensity of mana-screw/flood on MTGO, the Ponders will do wonders. That said, I'll be looking for a strong (preferably flash or instant) 2/3 cost card for a bit. Maybe these two slots should be the Brutalities I was considering.



    EDIT: Did another league this morning:
    1-2 BUG Delver, 2-0 RUG Delver, 2-0 UGx Stasis, 2-1 Manaless Dredge, 1-2 MonoW D&T (close)

    BUG Delver was annoying because I got manascrewed BAD both games I lost. Oddly enough, I've been noticing that if I keep a 4-5 lander, it works out more often than it seems it should. A stifle/waste can give a couple timewalks while you wait for business; which is what got RUG today. I fetched basic Island and held, and who on earth plays Fetch->Island + Stifle!? :D Stifle! Then I durdled and wasted him once or twice until SFM won it.
    Last edited by tescrin; 07-01-2017 at 11:54 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  15. #35
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    Re: Quellblade

    more testing done today with a 61 card 21 land with 4 wasteland build.

    All these were preboard:
    6-0 against miracles - it went really well for me and I felt bad for my friend. As soon as a bitterblossom sticks it is pretty uphill for them and all we have to do is counter the key spells. In one game I even got him with the typical flashscrew wasteland + stifle combo (this would be unthinkable with old miracles, and is where the loss of SDT is keenly felt). it is interesting that if they portent into a terminus at the beginning of our upkeep when we have a blossom out, the APNAP rule means that the terminus will go off and in the wake of all that, we get a faerie token. Pretty savage for them. If you're winning with blossom, don't sacrifice your fetchland and walk into a unexpectedly absent on your bitterblossom. most of the time, make token, lay land, and saying go is the right play.
    3-1 against grixis - game i lost he was on the play and dazed both my STP on his DRS and a flashbacked STP on his DRS via snap. delvers flipped early, YP got going, and eventually gurmag sealed the deal. The other games all followed a similar theme where he played the aggressor early and then I would stabilize with sfm/equip. batterskull and sword are both scary stuff for them. don't forget that queller trades with a flipped delver, and this is important because you just have to deal with their threats and then let the equipment brigade take over. flash in spellstutter/snap to block delvers/YPs, whatever.

  16. #36
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    Re: Quellblade

    Had a 4-1 today. Lost my second game to Aluren with a back to basics I could've played around, but totally didn't consider. Very frustrating; because if I had drawn a land in the next 6-7 turns I'd have been back in the game; and of course; because I fetched duals for basically no reason; making it a very embarrassing error. Oh well, this is how we learn.

    But! Beat Moon-Stompy 2-0, Elves 2-0, Storm (Bryant Cook) 2-1, and another Elves 2-1 (almost got it 2-0, but he landed a second hoof. Yes. I beat the other and his underlings stabilizing at 1-2 life with Jitte + Queller haha!)

    This makes my Elves record 7-0 in matches. That MU seems like almost a bye. Storm felt good since he knows what he's doing. The third game was all won by Quellers and Stutters, both in terms of beatdown and all the work-horse countering. It's vindicating because he was giving me crap about Queller in the storm thread.

    I'm still riding the initial $12 to enter tournaments and I'm on my 4th due to getting 3-x and better each time; so I'm hoping to continue riding it.


    Note: This makes me 1-3 in Aluren MUs. I think I'm playing them wrong, but the problem is there's so many BUG Goodstuff decks that all look the same; so figuring out if it's Shardless, Delver, Food Chain, Aluren, Czech Pile, etc.. is difficult.



    EDIT: Got another 4-1 tonight, and I'm tracking a full record in the original post. Nothing is omitted, those are my results.

    Loss was to Grixis control (2-1) -> Unfortunately Kolaghan's and Cabal Therapy combined really piss on this deck. Especially with Snapcaster. Still, close games where I was grinding pretty well. Could've maybe gotten the last game but a Surgical screwed up a brainstorm card I saved; and that card was the difference (aside from all the therapy shit.) Blossoms are key here, as anywhere it seems, but the secondary win con of Equips is loose because of all the interaction. I didn't have Chill in the side for this and that would've probably helped with some Tutors, as the biggest problem really is all the recursive CA.

    Wins:
    2-1 Aggro loam. Highlight was G3 where I Stutter'd a Thalia and attacked killing a Liliana, Stuttere'd a Liliana next turn, and Quelled a third liliana the next turn; tempoing him from full health to dead in about that time frame ahaha! That said, games were carried by early Bitterblossoms, like one may expect.

    2-1 UWr Stoneblade. Don't remember much here.

    2-1 Turbo Depths. game loss was from a Sejeri Steppe giving Lage protection, with the win otherwise in the bag. Cool. I got him next time with Stifle though :D. Bitterblossom.dec is good.

    2-1 Storm. Got G1 off a really mediocre hand because of an early wasteland and him casting a bunch of discard before I had a FoW. He still wasted a lot of time and I beat him mostly with a Snapcaster. I believe the first time he was going off I stuttered Probe, then he went DRit, CRit, so I Forced him there so he'd be out of mana. G3 I had DRS, Cage, Canonist, Canonist, Rip haha. I just had to survive a therapy he didn't cast, and Bam, T2 he was looking for outs, T3 he had Rip 2x Canonist DRS out, swinging for 5 the next turn, and the next turn I had the cage out too and Queller backup I think to get any Meltdown problems. Beautiful


    The deck is feeling really smooth and it won me a Gaea's Cradle and Maelstrom Pulse so far in my boxes, so that's like $40! Not a bad RoI @ $12. I also have enough play points for two more entries, so as long as I don't garbage too hard I can keep going tomorrow pretty well.
    Last edited by tescrin; 07-02-2017 at 03:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  17. #37
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    Re: Quellblade

    Coming from an extensive BUG background (I played aluren at GP prague last year going 9-6, when aluren were just $5 and foil cavern harpy were just $3, and before aluren I was on food chain when food chains were just $5 each), I would recommend you look up some of the lists and try to understand the differences in how they play out. Against aluren if I have a queller I would queller the aluren right away. Queller on cavern harpy is cute but sometimes the advantage they get by emptying their hand is enough of an advantage to win although it won't be on the spot. For both food chain and aluren, go for a tempo game and force them to cast spells on our terms. For 4c, wasteland and stifle aggressively while countering/swords to plowshares their drs goes a long way. They don't play daze. Go to the late game and it is likely we lose.

  18. #38

    Re: Quellblade

    Busy thread! Cool.

    I went 4-0 at FNM. A lot of it was luck though, or more precisely, bad luck on my opponents' side. Lots of mulligans first two rounds.

    2-1 Sneak and Show
    I felt like I was stealing game 1 since my hand felt a little too slow for the matchup, but his was even slower. Tight play should have got me the win, but instead I punted by attacking with Queller (exiling S+T) into a Sneak Attack with open red mana. I had a Stifle for the trigger when it died, but it got Forced. Game 2 had a lot of hate: Needle, Priest, D Sphere. Game 3 he mulled into oblivion and missed a bunch of land drops.

    2-0 Goblins
    Game 1 t2 SFM/Jitte basically took over the game. Game 2 Engineered Plague and Chill held down the fort. He mulled to 5 both games I think, so not really a notable match.

    2-1 RUG Delver
    Game 1 I out-Delvered him for a while with Stifle and Wasteland, narrowly eked out a win with BB. Game 2 was classic Delver; t1 Delver, t2 flip, kept me just off balance enough the rest of the game to go the distance. Game 3 was a grindfest.

    Moment of the night: Game 3 went on for a long time. I mostly had everything locked up, so I shrugged and tapped out for Batterskull, already having a Snapcaster equipped with Jitte vs. an empty board. I jokingly said something like "can't wait to get punished when you rip the Ancient Grudge off the top." He did. I couldn't even be mad.

    2-1 4c Deathblade
    Game 1 was weird, I mulled to 6 and kept a 2 lander (fetch and Wasteland), got the tempo start of t1 Stifle t2 Wasteland, but then never drew another land in 8 or 9 turns. Games 2 and 3 were really grindy and really fun. Having Plague and ZP to answer TNN was key.

    My changes from the first post:
    Main:
    -1 Dimir Charm
    -1 Riptide Lab
    +1 StP

    SB:
    -2 E Tutor
    -1 Humility
    -2 Submerge
    +2 ZP
    +1 Disenchant
    +1 D Sphere
    +1 Fatal Push

  19. #39
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    Re: Quellblade

    @r00de
    I think those choices are fine; though I'd keep 1 Tutor in the board or redesign it a little. All the permanents there are because they're tutorable, not necessarily because they're the best at the job and in the right numbers. Being able to simulate having 2-3 Rip for Lands is quite good, while not having to run 2-3 Rips. That said, I also am running 2 ZP now, and just trying to figure out how to get the deck to be more consistent in the early game for combo and whatnot.


    I did a couple leagues this morning again and my first was a disastrous 0-3 drop (followed later by a 4-1 again.)

    Today's 0-3 was 0-2 Storm, 0-2 Storm, 0-2 UR Delver. Had crazy mana issues, having to Mulligan every game, often multiple times to find lands. When I didn't mulligan I'd draw no lands with a hand that was ripe except for them.. Extremely frustrating.

    I decided I keep drawing too many "three drops" so I dropped DSphere and both Snaps this morning to test out things; tried Stifle #4 again and a pair of Thalia. I got a 4-1 again by the skin of my teeth, but I think those should just be ponders.

    The 4-1 was:
    * 2-1 UR Delver with Reveler. Close games; I was still starting off every game with garbage hands and barely getting mana
    * 0-2 UWr Stoneblade -> Super grindy and he just had an answer for every answer I had I felt. No matter how much CA I got he had more. Grumbletown USA
    * 2-1 D&T -> Blossom was an all star again. I believe I just had to tempo him out every game where he'd be a turn or two from a sturdy win.
    * 2-1 D&T -> Similar deal. I believe I won the last game with like 30 seconds on the clock because of my connection, and another where we were 2 hp vs 2 hp haha! Got'im!
    * 2-0 MonoB Reanimator -> Interestingly enough, same guy I lost to in a local the other day. G1 was a mull to 5 for him and he ended up "comboing" by thoughtseizing and reanimating a DRS. I plowed that, and kill him with BSK while holding up counters. G2 I Tutor an early cage, he ramps into Grave Titan, I Stifle the zombie trigger and plow it. We each lock the other out for the most part, him having wastelands turned off, kililng my guys and discarding my stuff; me with Humility, Rip, Cage, Needle on Stage, etc.. I eventually kill him with 1/1s, but it takes a long time as he makes a Grave Titan (1/1) Lage x2 (1/1s) Hexmage, etc. I get a jitte online which, after I cast like 3 dudes, finally sticks and keeps him empty.

    I think swapping to 3 Ponders @61, or 2 @60 is wise. The mana is so shaky early game and I think Ponders are exceptional at finding the half of your hand that you didn't draw (5 chances at a land with your next draw step; ~91% chance.) Between that and getting to shuffle after a Brainstorm and just finding answers in general, I think it'll play a lot more like a blue deck. I may go back to 3 Plow, 2 Charm, then go 2 Ponder too. We'll see how jazzy I'm feeling here before the next league.


    other notes:
    * Thalia seemed bad but I really am looking for a Snap replacement. He's just seems really meh. Anyway, she didn't do anything good, and she did get bounced by a karakas almost costing me a D&T game.
    * I nearly lost to a hardcasted equip because I got greedy to block with a Priest, forgetting he had Thalia HC on the field UGH! Game went from in the back to on the wire. Leave your Queller up!
    * I think I want the Charms back in. Losing to combo feels terrible and Storm seems not in our favor. The fact that they're still hard counters is nice and having a diverse array of them makes you stronger against Cabal Therapy.
    * Every deck on MTGO seems to run Gitaxian Probes and it's super annoying to start every game revealing your hand. It's also hard to tell if you're supposed to Stutter them, but I think you are.

    I think I'll work on updating the original post with a slightly updated/honed list, a less nooby tone now that I got 50+ matches rather than 15, and better MU advise/estimations/etc.

    Thanks to you guys who are in the trenches with me! Exciting to have a couple others considering the viability of Queller!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  20. #40
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    Re: Quellblade

    I always thought queller was good. I played spirits just before switching to this variant with bitterblossom (and that's before I knew this thread existed). I would think it is more accurate to say I'm here because of bitterblossom. It's such an insane card when resolved on T2. Cutting aether vial and Mausoleum wanderer for drs and blossom was the best decision ever. Less durdles, more giggles.

    I still haven't found a pressing need for the ponders. I use my sfm as a top of the library reset that doubles up as a threat. I am comfortable playing off either 3 lands or a drs and 2 lands. Your brainstorms are live, snap + brainstorm is live, stutter and queller are live.

    I see that you really dislike snaps, play more and I think you'll miss them. Having 4 plow, bs, and 3-4 stifle means there's always some value to gain.

    Stutter the probe. Actually just stutter any cantrip. Giving them less card draw is always good especially in the early game.. If they have black up, no probe makes therapy a lot worse.

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