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Thread: Quellblade

  1. #81
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    Re: Quellblade

    BUG delver is a natural rough one. Thankfully its not too popular around here. Grixis, which is more popular, is easier to handle.

  2. #82
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    Re: Quellblade

    1 ponder, 1 snap, 3 waste, 1 curfew
    sb absolute law over chill

    3-2

    R1 burn 2-1
    G1: kept hand with 2 blossoms and a sfm. He goes t1 goblin guide and t2 swiftspear guide. I never came back from there.
    G2: on the play. T1 I keep mana up and then plow a t1 monastery swiftspear. T2 I keep mana up and then spellstutter a chain lightning. T3 he plays monastery swiftspear and lava spike. I curfew (making him return the prowessed swiftspear and my spellstutter) and then counter the lava spike. T4 I play sfm, T5 play and equip jitte and he doesn't have the smash.
    G3: I have an early T2 sfm for batterskull -> planning to T3 batterskull but he has the T3 sulfuric vortex which I can't do anything about (weird that he didn't burn my sfm, I like to search for batterskull when I want opponents to waste removal on sfm because I have something better to do). Very well, race is on and i drop batterskull anyway. I force of will a smash to smithereens (now i see why he didn't burn my sfm). I found a Dsphere, Dsphere the vortex, and start gaining life which he doesn't recover from.

    R2 BR reanimator 1-2
    G1: he has the nuts and i don't have fow
    G2: T1 i drs. he T1 unmask me taking my only fow, then goes land -> FOUR dark ritual -> griselbrand. (wut) anyway i lose

    R3 elves 2-1
    G1: I get caught with pants down keeping a grindy fowless hand and he goes t3 natural order into progenitus (maindeck lol) so i lose
    G2: T2 I Spellstutter a wirewood symbiote. T3 I spell queller an elvish visionary. I bring the beats on while he tries to assemble some elves and then dies to ZP.
    G3: Pretty long grindy game (to my surprise), where I got to ZP and he still didn't die (thanks to a combination of wirewood symbiote and a post ZP glimpse), so I SCM back the ZP at some later point to finally put the nonsense away.

    R4 show and tell 0-2
    G1: T2 show and tell, I fow and he fows back. OK next game.
    G2: Mull twice but I keep a hand with 2 land, containment priest, humility, spellstutter. He goes for t2 show and tell and I play containment priest in response. It doesn't get countered. I don't put anything in, which was a mistake because he brings in omniscience, plays emrakul, and kills me anyway (slapping myself for this one)

    R5: death and taxes 2-0
    G1: I won the game of "who gets the jitte counters first"
    G2: T3 Dsphere wipes out 2 vials, and that was a problem for him because he was stuck on 1 land, a karakas (at least he managed to put a mother of runes and a stoneforge into play). Now he has a stoneforge he can't activate and a he tries to fragmentize but unfortunately I have the fow. I topdeck wasteland and now he is on 0 land. I land a blossom and he finally gets a land, unfortunately though, its a rishadan port, still no white sources. I amass a few faeries while playing draw go, then I find ZP and put him out of misery.

    Still haven't found a way to address show and tell decks. This is a problem that requires attention.

  3. #83
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    Re: Quellblade

    Hey guys, I'm really interested into this archetype. Played a Bant list with Thalia, Nemesis and Collected Company for some time, but the Esper approach intrigues me - mainly because more cantrips, Snappy and maindeck FoW seem like fun :)

    One thing I'd like to know: How do you guys fare against Food Chain?
    On paper, Walking Ballista and high CMC spells look like a Nightmare for this deck :/ In my old Bant Version, my only chance of winning anything was Nemesis.

  4. #84
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    Re: Quellblade

    Bad matchup because they have the inevitability. Stifles are pretty bad but necessary to wreck havoc on their mana, plows are bad on griffin and so is queller. You'll have to be the aggressor, and in general we are pretty bad at doing that.

  5. #85
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    Re: Quellblade

    1 snap 1 ponder 4 wasteland 3 stifle
    sb absolute law over chill

    3 rounder, 1-2

    round 1 show and tell 0-2
    G1 weirdest game with no plays on either side for 3 turns, and then he goes show and tell, he puts omniscience while i put in dsphere, so we are back to square one. Eventually he does what he does (we have a bad MU with show and tell)
    G2 always an uphill battle and I didn't get my silver bullets this time. sneak attack resolved and from there it was just a matter of finding gas for him and he found the griselbrand to chain into tentacles

    Extra game: having already lost we played another game and I won this one after surviving sneak attack -> emrakul. I sacrificed down and after the dust cleared it was just land and a drs. and after that i found via my topdeck another land and another drs and somehow I won.

    still a bad MU

    round 2 merfolk 1-2
    G1: sword of fire and ice stuck and equip it to spell queller and ride it to a win
    G2: too many lords, tried a Dsphere which got FOWed and it was quite defining
    G3: play errors might have cost me here (perhaps poor sideboarding as well, will have to rethink this one), but in general spellstutters are rather sad in this matchup (not sure if we keep them though since they still wear equips well)

    round 3 grixis 2-1
    G1: I lose a game of drs dominance
    G2: absolute law is absolutely fabulous
    G3: t2 absolute law resolves and then after that it becomes a drubbing

    conclusion: absolute law is great. show and tell still sucks. merfolk makes bitterblossom and spellstutter look beyond bad.

  6. #86
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    Re: Quellblade

    I've almost posted a few times but I keep writing a book and then deleting it as I stew. I will be waiting another two weeks before I can play again, but I'm now more seriously looking at patriot, and I believe I'm inching closer to a non-Esper list (to movingtonewao's dismay I imagine as he said he was here for the Blossom :) )

    The Patriot list has gone through a lot of arm-chair iterations but I think I have on that I like. It'll boost D&T, Merfolk, and things like that, still be bad against Eldrazi, and be (quite a bit) better in Fair MUs, while not giving much up to combo (but probably small percentages against Reanimator variants), and probably being a bit weaker to miracles. While I have a couple weeks to stew on it, this is approximating what I think I'll run next time:


    -18/10-
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    2 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Spellstutter Sprite
    4 Spell Queller
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    0-3 Goblin Rabblemaster
    0-2 Sulfur Elemental

    -2-
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice

    -20/13-
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Ponder
    3 Stifle
    3 Punishing Fire
    4 Force of Will

    -21 Mana-
    2 Chrome Mox
    1 Gemstone Caverns
    4* Flooded Strand [this will be something else for me, because I own 3 for some reason]
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Plains
    1 Island
    2 Tundra
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Plateau


    While I am still stewing on it, Red gives an advantage of running one less basic, opens up a Pfire plan to put fair games away and ensure hits with Equips, and if the main Beater is red, it gives an out to Blood Moon decks by simply clocking them when they combo off.

    This version has 3 fast-mana cards (Caverns, 2x Mox) that I think would work well with Stutter and SFM, or just giving Daze-protection in Delver MUs. It has a massive recurring removal suite of Pfire, Grim, and the equips, on top of the old 4/2 Plow/Snap plan. The mana is theoretically much stronger/stable and because the mana is also theoretically faster in ~5/8ths of the time we would've had DRS, it means that we should be mildly better against Combo, since a T1 Stutter is possible.

    I still have a couple weeks to theorize on it, but I suspect that its Combo MUs are mostly similar, that its fair MUs mostly go up a tad due to higher CA density, but that it loses points to Control (Tabernacle is mean here, Miracles has more answers for Rabble than they do for Blossom.)

    I'm really interesting in moving to red right now; in part due to Moon strategies, and in part because Grim is quite the T1 play. I believe the main Combo MU this would improve is Infect; while it should improve all Delver MUs and I think D&T will be easier; though Rabble is notably very mediocre/bad against them where Blossom is pretty good. Stutter loses some points, true, but it mostly hit 1-drops anyway. Stew on it for a day and let me know what you think.


    EDIT: Interestingly, Gemstone also opens up T0 Stifle on the draw, and potentially Brainstorm against Force-check hands. T0 Plow is also pretty relevant against Fair decks. The T0 stifle improves Storm ever so mildly, and the ability to punish a greed Fetch->Ponder keep seems OK. It'll only come up in like.. 2% of games or something, but it's pretty nifty potential.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  7. #87
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    Re: Quellblade

    I'm not sure what happens here but having red over black changes the makeup of the deck completely. Would it be prudent to share the same thread? I believe that it would be better to open a separate thread for the jeskai version (and bant version), considering how different the gameplans are.

    Regarding your proposal, you are right in that it would take A LOT to convince me to give up deathrite shaman (and lines like T2 spell queller, or T2 spellstutter + brainstorm or plow) and bitterblossom (which I have conceded is why I am here YES, but ultimately this is the card we build our little pillow fort around that makes sprites and quellers shine, and the power level here is undeniable). While I'm not saying I would never give up playing bitterblossom, I don't think punishing fire and grim lavamancer are the cards to make me do that :)

    I believe there are better shells for these cards, and the punishing grove engine just doesn't seem to fit in with what the deck is trying to do. T1 grim isn't as scary as a T1 DRS ime. You could try it out, but I imagine this doesn't fix the hairy matchups that the esper version had. We didn't even have a serious problem with blood moon (except a t1 moon that we don't have a force of will for, but then again so many decks get rekt by an unanswered T1 moon too), as long as you fetch basics and don't get caught with your pants down. The red splash might work, but maybe you'll need to refine the card choices with more testing.

  8. #88

    Re: Quellblade

    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post
    I've almost posted a few times but I keep writing a book and then deleting it as I stew. I will be waiting another two weeks before I can play again, but I'm now more seriously looking at patriot, and I believe I'm inching closer to a non-Esper list (to movingtonewao's dismay I imagine as he said he was here for the Blossom :) )

    The Patriot list has gone through a lot of arm-chair iterations but I think I have on that I like. It'll boost D&T, Merfolk, and things like that, still be bad against Eldrazi, and be (quite a bit) better in Fair MUs, while not giving much up to combo (but probably small percentages against Reanimator variants), and probably being a bit weaker to miracles. While I have a couple weeks to stew on it, this is approximating what I think I'll run next time:


    -18/10-
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    2 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Spellstutter Sprite
    4 Spell Queller
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    0-3 Goblin Rabblemaster
    0-2 Sulfur Elemental

    -2-
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice

    -20/13-
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Ponder
    3 Stifle
    3 Punishing Fire
    4 Force of Will

    -21 Mana-
    2 Chrome Mox
    1 Gemstone Caverns
    4* Flooded Strand [this will be something else for me, because I own 3 for some reason]
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Plains
    1 Island
    2 Tundra
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Plateau


    While I am still stewing on it, Red gives an advantage of running one less basic, opens up a Pfire plan to put fair games away and ensure hits with Equips, and if the main Beater is red, it gives an out to Blood Moon decks by simply clocking them when they combo off.

    This version has 3 fast-mana cards (Caverns, 2x Mox) that I think would work well with Stutter and SFM, or just giving Daze-protection in Delver MUs. It has a massive recurring removal suite of Pfire, Grim, and the equips, on top of the old 4/2 Plow/Snap plan. The mana is theoretically much stronger/stable and because the mana is also theoretically faster in ~5/8ths of the time we would've had DRS, it means that we should be mildly better against Combo, since a T1 Stutter is possible.

    I still have a couple weeks to theorize on it, but I suspect that its Combo MUs are mostly similar, that its fair MUs mostly go up a tad due to higher CA density, but that it loses points to Control (Tabernacle is mean here, Miracles has more answers for Rabble than they do for Blossom.)

    I'm really interesting in moving to red right now; in part due to Moon strategies, and in part because Grim is quite the T1 play. I believe the main Combo MU this would improve is Infect; while it should improve all Delver MUs and I think D&T will be easier; though Rabble is notably very mediocre/bad against them where Blossom is pretty good. Stutter loses some points, true, but it mostly hit 1-drops anyway. Stew on it for a day and let me know what you think.


    EDIT: Interestingly, Gemstone also opens up T0 Stifle on the draw, and potentially Brainstorm against Force-check hands. T0 Plow is also pretty relevant against Fair decks. The T0 stifle improves Storm ever so mildly, and the ability to punish a greed Fetch->Ponder keep seems OK. It'll only come up in like.. 2% of games or something, but it's pretty nifty potential.
    Just 2 stoneforge mystics? That seems kinda low doesn't it? 3 seems to be the floor at least IMO.

    No batterskull seems kinda strange too. Sounds dumb, but both your equipments need to be equipped to do anything. And they need to be equipped at sorcery speed. With quellers, spellstutters, and SCM it seems like you want a lot of mana open on your opponents turn. Batterskull seems great in your list since you can EOT it, then protect it.

    My $.02

  9. #89
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    Re: Quellblade

    it is also for this reason that i will never drop batterskull from the list. Also, sometimes you need lifegain in a pinch and batterskull is your bastion against decks like burn and UR delver. if you want your sfm to eat removal (for example so that something else can live), then searching for batterskull draws out removal as well.

  10. #90
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    Re: Quellblade

    0 ponder 0 snap 4 wasteland 4 stifle 0 dsphere 1 misd, sb has moat in it (testing)

    3 rounder

    2-1

    R1 4c leovold 2-0
    G1 stifle + wasteland means he doesn't get to do anything
    G2 resolved a t2 bitterblossom through a force of will, and spell queller x2 (1 on TNN and 1 on Leovold), his attempted toxic deluge gets hijacked by spellstutter sprite.

    R2 Sneak show 1-2
    G1 they do their thing
    G2 played a game of "lets keep my t2 containment priest alive", and succeeded
    G3 they do their thing again

    R3 burn 2-1
    G1 they go on the play and have t1 guide into T2 double guide. what.
    G2 they go t1 swiftspear into t2 double swiftspear and on my t3 i dsphere. 3 for 1.
    G3 t2 absolute law, t3 sfm into jitte, and things go south very quickly for him.

    Unfortunately moat didn't really do anything, need to try more games.

  11. #91
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    Re: Quellblade

    Been a bit since I've been able to play or get on, looks like the DTBs shook up a tiny bit; and probably in a good way? I may go back to something close to the original list if I get the chance to play tomorrow or the next day; though I have a Mentor build sleeved up that I may just run with. Glad to see Movington was still playing around with it recently.

    @First Revenge (I realize this is a really late reply)
    I remember running Junk for a long time with 2 SFM + Jitte/SoFaI and it's a configuration you'll still see floating around in Mav/Junk threads on occasion; because BSK is bad in those decks. It's mostly my roots/origins in non-blue midrange decks coming through. The main reason it looks weird IMO, is that it's normally a 2/3 split, where you have another utility equip like SoLaS to boost SFM's reliability in those decks, though I think BS can mitigate that.

    SFM is a requirement with mediocre bodies and it really boosts your ability to win against Burn by simply going "jitte swing, gg" too often to not include, among the free wins against fair decks that a Jitte/SoFaI can provide. IMO, the non-BSK equips are usually what win the games in the deck, and the BSK is more of a stalling card until your draws figure themselves out. Replacing that with Anglers or another proactive card that races or beats goyf is something I'm interested in, especially since BSK rarely beats threats; merely says "neither of us can attack."

    I do agree (and designed it that way) that BSK is a good fit in terms of how the activated ability floats your mana for optional countering; but the opposite is true as well; BSK can't be reasonably equipped or casted if your SFM dies without also blocking your ability to counter opponent's spells. What's worse is that this pressures early SFMs. This is why i'm really looking to expand into either proactive Flash threats, or cheap proactive threats (the list of viables being Clique, Angler, Snaps, and Mindcensor) in order to instead make the game about countering your opp's stuff when they do stuff, and proactively screwing with them when they don't.

    ____________

    With all of that, not sure what I'll run tomorrow , but if it's relevant to the thread and it performs better than "real bad" I'll report :)


    EDIT:
    R1 4c leovold 2-0
    G1 stifle + wasteland means he doesn't get to do anything
    G2 resolved a t2 bitterblossom through a force of will, and spell queller x2 (1 on TNN and 1 on Leovold), his attempted toxic deluge gets hijacked by spellstutter sprite.
    LMAO. Oh man. That is exactly why I love the deck. When the draws line up and every thing they try to do punishes them with an even faster clock; brutal. I had one that backfired last month that was sad: Guy casts massacre, I Sprite it for the win, he Darkblasts the sprite pushing the number of Fae back to 3. Balls.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

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    Re: Quellblade

    Quote Originally Posted by movingtonewao View Post
    0 ponder 0 snap 4 wasteland 4 stifle 0 dsphere 1 misd, sb has moat in it (testing)

    3 rounder

    2-1

    R1 4c leovold 2-0
    G1 stifle + wasteland means he doesn't get to do anything
    G2 resolved a t2 bitterblossom through a force of will, and spell queller x2 (1 on TNN and 1 on Leovold), his attempted toxic deluge gets hijacked by spellstutter sprite.

    R2 Sneak show 1-2
    G1 they do their thing
    G2 played a game of "lets keep my t2 containment priest alive", and succeeded
    G3 they do their thing again

    R3 burn 2-1
    G1 they go on the play and have t1 guide into T2 double guide. what.
    G2 they go t1 swiftspear into t2 double swiftspear and on my t3 i dsphere. 3 for 1.
    G3 t2 absolute law, t3 sfm into jitte, and things go south very quickly for him.

    Unfortunately moat didn't really do anything, need to try more games.
    Hey, new to the thread. I can't seem to find the list that you're basing those changes off of. Do you have your current version? I'd like to try it out in a league.

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    Re: Quellblade

    Quote Originally Posted by itrytostorm View Post
    Hey, new to the thread. I can't seem to find the list that you're basing those changes off of. Do you have your current version? I'd like to try it out in a league.
    Use the list in the first post with:
    + 1 Wasteland
    + 1 Stifle
    + 1 Misdirection
    + 1 Plow (he never goes below 4)

    This results in:
    -16-
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Spellstutter Sprite
    4 Spell Queller

    -6-
    3 Bitterblossom
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Batterskull
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice

    -17-
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Stifle
    4 Force of Will
    1 Misdirection

    -21-
    4 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Marsh Flats
    3 Flooded Strand
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Tundra
    1 Scrubland
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Swmap
    1 Plains
    1 Island
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  14. #94
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    Re: Quellblade

    Yeah he got it right. Pm me if you have any other questions. I just won a fnm fatal push with this, beating grixis delvers and a dnt

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    Re: Quellblade

    I still haven't really been playing for some months now, but I see that Search for Azcanta may be a good fit. Ramps, filters, provides an instant speed ability, accrues CA without drawing cards. Of Note: it actually digs for Force pretty well in response to losing. This may not be an ideal deck for it since we don't have grave recursion much; but it may be good enough without needing that.

    If I get the chance, I may start heading to Thursday legacy a bit again. For awhile it's been pretty obnoxious to get down there so I just haven't been able/willing to play. The fact that Elves is coming into its own again though is good news for the deck, and as the other Stoneblades get pushed down, it opens the opportunity for this guy to eat the Elves players up.

    I'll probably run something really close to the original list with an extra piece or two of S&T hate in the side somewhere. It seems like the decks' worst matchups have subsided a bit (opposing control decks, BUG Delver.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  16. #96
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    Re: Quellblade

    Giant wall of text, it's been a couple years!

    I spent a bit brewing in Bant recently and while i initially ran a more tempo'd approach (Noble, VClique, no top end) I ran into a lot of issues drawing Nobles and found that Delver just beat me up; while so did Miracles most of the time. This last week I've hit the concession that KotR isn't what I'm looking for either.

    Bringing me all the way back to here; here is what I think I'll be running next week:


    -16/12 Creatures-
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Spellstutter Sprite
    4 Spell Queller
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Venser, Shaper Savant

    -8/2-
    3 Bitterblossom
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Batterskull
    2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria

    -17/13-
    3 Ponder
    2 Stifle
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Force of Will

    -20-
    3 Wasteland
    3 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Scrubland
    2 Tundra
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Karakas
    2 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Plains

    Sideboard:
    2 Collective Brutality
    1 Zealous Persecution
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Rest in Peace
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Tsabo's Web
    1 Detention Sphere or Engineered Explosives
    If I perform well I'll probably start a new thread. One will notice going down to 2 Stifle, the odd choice of main'd Vensers (what is this, Legend miracles?!), the Teferis, and the Karakas. Well, the Karakas and Vensers are a concession to Sneakshow to help slow them down (or give me free wins), Karakas as an extra out to reanimator and mild assistance with D&T (and synergizes well with Venser if deep in the grind); while Venser and Teferi are concessions to late-game permanents keeping us from winning (such as EBridge, eating a JMS, or similar.)

    Choices explained:
    * Teferi - Gives a nasty game-ender for miracles and is a suitable answer to Jace. Essentially costs 3 mana and *also* answers Choke, Winter Orb, and other obnoxious permanents that try to keep you tapped down (even without using his -3.) Helps give a reason for Blossom to drag the game out as well. Also a node to obnoxious permanents like EBridge and psuedo-removal. All around has felt awesome when he resolves and is a great card to pitch to force haha.

    * Venser - A nod to Sneakshow and another answer for obnoxious permanents. Is somewhere between a real-answer and VClique in that he's relevant late game against many combo decks and can be used as a "tempo" play (despite his high cost) when you want a proactive permanent at instant speed. Doesn't die to Lily-Hope either. I'm more preparing for Miracles/Control MUs in G1 since you want to win G1 so you don't go to time without your wins. Being in G2 with a loss just sucks since the other guy may be playing more leisurely.

    * Karakas - Another nod to Sneakshow, Reanimator, and similar. The fact it plays nice with Venser (like legend miracles did) is fine. We'll see how often it screws me but I've been keeping the mana heavily focused on UW with reasonable basic counts. If I removed it it would probably become a fetch.

    * Ponders - While I doubt anyone questions them, we're now a Stoneblade variant instead of a Deathblade variant. You need these to give good T1 plays, set up the rest of your game, make SCM more relevant, and find your lands. Note: ponders drastically improve mulligan hands (especially with the current scry rule) since a 1-lander mull to 6 will basically give you a free mull to 5 if you have a ponder (ponder sees 4, scry sees 1) allowing you to have similar (actually better) chances of finding more lands than a second mulligan.

    * Snapcaster - another card no one would question, but it's worth pointing out that it's much better against Delver (due to natural daze protection) than VClique or similar. Aside from helping grind out games via CA; the natural daze protection and versatility of SCM makes him an obvious choice (especially post DRS.)

    * Down to 2 Stifle - When you draw multiple stifles, often it becomes less relevant; and if you find three it's usually a game-loss or a desperate brainstorm. I feel like, since Snapcasters are back in, they can shore up the Stifle numbers; and if I need them badly (for storm let's say) the Ponders can help find them. If Storm becomes an issue I can always up the number again.


    and the sideboard:
    * Collective Brutality is an experiment for Red-based delver decks and extra interaction for Combo. I like that it can fill Plow's role when Storm does something strange like bring in YPyro, while still being relevant discard against them if they didn't do anything dumb. For R-Delver variants, the fact is you can drop your garbage for extra tempo/information; such as simply killing a delver and pitching an extra Equip or Land to hit their hand.

    * Tsabo's Web - While Lands and similar are naturally positive MUs; D&T is not. The SB plan was always about Revoker + CPriest shutting down Vial in order to turn on the rest of our deck; but realizing that Web can also be a thorough lock-piece on their mana intensive deck was interesting enough to warrant inclusion. It's been reasonable "Land Destruction" against the Turbo-depths decks and similar; but I haven't gotten to grind against any D&T.

    * DSphere/EE - One of these is necessary IMO for Empty the Warrens + Tutor. Tutor gives you an effective three copies while also being relevant for a lockout by fetching Canonist/Revoker. DSphere is better for Sneakshow/Miracles and EE is better for Delver/D&T/(elves)/etc.

    * I've been considering a Sideboarded SoFaF just because it counters Choke, B2B, etc while being relevant for Loam/Depths decks. That said, those MUs are positive so it's probably not worth my time.

    ______________
    So far I've only had limited testing to make sure the deck is playing properly. I went ahead and tested out the Burn MU due to the Vensers, Tefs, and Blossoms being terrible; and the fact that DRS helped shore it up before.

    Played 10 rounds (no SB games) and had the burn list being an amalgamation of the top8's I searched up; going with a 2-sulfuric vortex variant without the spectacle cards, cutting Fireblast #4 and Rift Bolt #4 for Grim Lavamancers; since Sulfuric and Grim are both much better against Stoneblade variants than they are against the field. I believe this hedges the Burn to be more favored against me.

    Despite this got 7-3 in rounds leading me to believe the MU is 55-45 or 60-40. As I hypothesized, since Stutter and Queller *always* eat a card (they either kill it or you sit on a card) they are tremendous in the MU; especially Queller eating any threat you don't have a spare plow for. The SFMs are amazing. The four basics and straightforward mana of the deck make it very easy to dodge Pop (though it's still good to be ready to wasteland your self.) The SB game would look like:
    -3 Blossom, -2 Tef, -2 Venser
    +2 CB, +2 Canonist, +2 CPriest, +1 Revoker

    since Canonist is brutal, and it turns our various irrelevant cards into threats on the ground; and of course Brutality is insane in the MU.

    I've designed a SB guide for a lot of MUs which I've attached, if only since this is already a wall of text. Will report here in the short term, and if I find success i'll make a 2.0 thread. Here's the guide:

    Dredge -
    -2 Venser, -2 Tef, -3 Bitterblossom, -2 Stifle
    +2 Tutor, +2 CPriest, +1 Cage, +1 Rip, +1 DSphere, +2 CB (kill your own dude > stifle)

    D&T - Turn their Vials and Ports off; try and make them play into counter-dudes. NOTE: if they're running THC you should not bring in Webs, keep your stifles instead or go for Brutalities for extra removal (but it's not that good here.)
    -2 FoW, -2 Stifle, -2 Venser
    +2 Web, +1 Revoker, +2 CPriest, +1 ZP

    Burn - Lower the curve, cut bad cards, gain tempo where possible, don't kill yourself
    -3 Blossom, -2 Tef, -2 Venser
    +2 CB, +2 Canonist, +2 CPriest, +1 Revoker

    R-Delver decks: lower the curve, be able to answer more threats, create tempo
    -2 Venser, -2 Tef
    +2 Collective Brutality, +1 Zealous Persecution, +1 Engineered Explosives

    Lands/AggroLoam: lower the curve, add threats and Grave answer
    -1 Jitte, -2 Tef, -1 FoW, -1 Plow(?)
    +1 RiP, +1 Tutor, +2 CPriest (sometimes run GSZ?), +1 Revoker
    -> if running maze/port, +2 Web

    Turbodepths: no small dudes to ping, add Revoker to answer HMage, lower curve
    -1 Jitte, -2 Tef, -2 Venser
    +1 Revoker, +2 CPriest (lean forward) (sometimes run GSZ?), +2 Web

    Miracles: Add loads of threats; more answers to Jace, make removal more versatile
    -4 Plow, -1 Jitte, -2 Stifle, -1 Force of Will
    +2 Canonist, +1 DSphere, +1 Revoker, +2 CB, +2 CPriest
    (CB does what Plow does, but also can provides info and hand interaction)

    Storm - More relevant removal cards, don't hurt yourself, lower the curve, become more proactive (Canonist, Priest)
    -2 Tef, -2 Equips, -4 Plow, -3 Blossom
    +2 CB, +2 Tutor, +2 Canonist, +1 Revoker, +1 DSphere, +1 Cage, +1 Rip, +1 EE

    S&T: more interaction, lower curve
    -2 Tef, -2 Equips, -1 SFM, -4 Plow
    +2 CB, +1 Tutor, +2 Canonist, +1 Revoker, +1 DSphere, +2 CPriest

    Elves: Lower to the ground, more removal, break their deck
    -3 Blossom, -2 Tef, -2 Venser
    +2 CPriest, +1 Cage, +1 Revoker, +1 ZP, +2 CB

    Grixis Control: Be able to answer non-creatures, watch CDA
    -2 Force, -1 Plow
    +1 ZP, +1 Revoker, +1 DSphere
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  17. #97
    Is Cancer

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    Jul 2014
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    1,146

    Re: Quellblade

    Went ahead and bought into MTGO again last night and have been having a lot of success in Tournament Practice (which is to say; I haven't started doing leagues again yet; but will start soon.) I'm mostly trying to get the interface working well for me (auto-yield to things, get the hotkeys down), figuring out the pitfalls of the terrible interface (Snapcaster is very annoying to use, F.E.; set up which phases I care about), and make all my mistakes in practice (accidentally passing, getting stuck with tapped mana, playing the wrong land, etc) so I clean up my act a bit before it costs me any money :p.

    So far it's been going very well with the below results:
    1-0 Burn
    2-0 Miracles
    0-1 Storm
    2-0 D&T
    1-1 Pheonix
    1-0 UR Delver
    1-0 Nic Fit
    0-1 Elves
    1-0 Zombardment
    1-0 Aggroloam
    (10-3)

    Interestingly:
    * it's my first lost to Elves with this archtype (in either color set) ever; so I lost to it's best MU (so the arch is still like 12-1 or so)

    * Funny enough on the other side; I beat D&T and Miracles all four times; so those are better than they used to be. I think Miracles is positive since DRS basically became Vensers and Teferis; and the maindeck Karakas+Venser combo has come up a couple times in these specific matchups; making it very easy to get obnoxious things off the board and keep them off.

    Other notes:
    * The venser + teferi thing has been hugely relevant for obnoxious permanents as expected. Bouncing a germ felt really good next to Karakas, knowing that I could screw with another equip. Additionally, it feels good to know you have outs lying around in the deck. Jace on 11 is still just a cantrip away from being reset/removed. Venser sure looks mediocre on paper; but he's a lot better in the game than he should be haha.

    * Bitterblossom is still amazing and SoFaI has been really good. The deck curves out now better than with DRS; since you never awkwardly wonder if you should keep 3 mana open or cast a 2-drop bomb. Just lay Blossoms and SFMs until they stick; protect them (or stall the game) with Stutters and Quellers while the tokens/BSK do all the work.

    * I remembered Faerie Macabre. I sold my Surgicals since they're so high right now, but I can easily see going for a Faerie or two in the side; likely replacing RiP and something else. In all reality; the main thing this deck has troubles with seems to JUST be super early all-in strategies; since they often start off with Cabal Therapy.

    * Been a lot more willing to go for no-value Snapcaster beats this time around. Certainly nice for if you play an equip out early. Haven't missed Vendi much even though it was a painful swap for me to finally make.

    * Brutality hasn't done much yet. Not sure if it'll stick around since Burn seems positive.


    Posts like this in the future will continue to tally the total wins and losses (quite likely) as it may be too obnoxious for me to track when I do postings.

    Still, that's a hugely positive set of matches, going 10-3 (not counting the random crap you fight on MTGO practice; which I mostly won against as well unsurprisingly.)

    My only change I'd consider at the moment would be finding room for the third stifle again and some sideboard config; just to edge up my Storm game a little. Also strange, the Pheonix I lost to (same guy, but different SB?) did a sideboard Tendrils plan and went off with multiple dark rituals, infernal tutors, etc, getting a natural storm 9 with no graveyard (and 10th as I successfully quelled 3+ mana and he couldn't use his LED) This seems like a fluke to me as that's at least 6 mana he was cut off of; so I attribute that to variance.

    The D&T MUs have been interesting; I think these were improved by the loss of DRS as well; since you don't have a host of your dudes turned off by Revoker. Their only targets seems to be the equips (side out Teferi you dingus!) and they really only have Jitte as an out to Blossoms unless your life total is pressured. Main issue to watch out for is it's easy to screw your mana if you fetch basics, but you have to start the game assuming you'll get Wastelanded/Quartered; but it definitely makes their ports better.

    Also, haven't seen Web against them yet; here's hopin'!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

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