I ran a two-of in a mono-white list and thought it performed well. It was an annoying card for a lot of decks to deal with, it pumped up Karn tokens, and I found that running Karn as a four-of is overkill. Maindeck hate for other combo matchups is always nice.Originally Posted by Rebelwithapen216
I think there might be room to split the difference between the Unclaimed Territory and normal lists. I don't think playing Mono-W really gains you much (although having basic plains to search for off Trophy is nice) since most mono-w builds are only running 2-3 plains. A great as Karn is (and man, he's great), I think running 4 of a legendary at the top of the curve is a pretty bad plan and that slot could be served better by almost anything else. Sai has been amazing for me and I think he's well worth playing if you have the mana for it in your list.
The list I've been testing with recently is as follows:
Mana:
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Spire of Industry
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Ancient Den
4 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Petal
2 Lion's Eye Diamond
Creatures:
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Dark Confidant
3 Walking Ballista
3 Monastery Mentor
2 Sai, Master Thopterist
Draw:
4 Urza's Bauble
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Lodestone Bauble
Other:
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
Sideboard:
2 Containment Priest
2 Kitesail Freebooter
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Cast Out
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Trinket Mage
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Engineered Explosives
This build can theoretically support any color splash (as long as that color is 'Human'). I don't know why people keep having this argument about plaing bob or playing Karn. They're both absolutely absurd; play both. Sai functions as a Mentor that doesn't end the game as quickly but is harder to kill and also draws cards (plus the flying on the tokens is massively relevant) at the downside of being legendary, which is why I replaced the 4th mentor with the second Sai. Having so much draw power helps a lot with the consistency issues and having the 'fifth' mentor makes all the air feel way less noticable.
If I was going to play more land (I play about 4 less than most of you seem to) I'd probably drop some combination of lodestones/ballista for Inventors' fairs and maybe more true rainbow lands. Activating Salvagers is occassionally awkward with the current mana base and his power as a midrange grind card or to pump out tokens with mentor or Sai shouldn't be underestimated or forgotten.
I like trinket mage far more than recruiter, although I'm aware I seem to be in the minority there. Part of that is that I feel you can validly substitute LED slots for trinket mages (which is great because LED is the most 'air' card in the deck), but part of that is that Recruiter always felt painfully expensive and slow when I played him. Trinket Mage is also a positive hit for Sai/Mentor when you draw him, whereas Recruiter is a subpar body and a card stuck in your hand for next turn. Maybe he's better in builds with more lands and I just didn't have the mana desity to make good use of him when I tested it.
I'm mostly happy with the sideboard. I still admantly believe that Leyline is significantly better than Crypt as far as graveyard hate goes. I've been liking Cast Out as a good general-purpose answer, although I just saw someone's post earlier about Hostage Taker and I may very well try him out in that slot. The trinket mage package used to be in the mainboard, time will tell if it stays in the side now that Sai's taken that slot, though thus far it's still good. The new Linvala looks dope and I'm excited to try her.
For those of you on the mono-w builds with more than one Karakas, have you tried Mangara at all? I feel like there must be a decent Mangara/Karakas list out there somewhere and mono-w bomberman seems like it'd be as good as anywhere else to try it.
My buddy on the other side of the country finally picked up the missing pieces to try out the deck - he played my 75 from Dec 15 (https://www.mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=773&f=LE&meta=39) and I wrote up a sideboard guide for him. He had one loss in the swiss - to another Chalice deck (Aggro Loam), and then made it to the finals before facing another Chalice deck (MUD) and finishing 2nd -- good for a Tropical Island! He was also the feature match for each round of the top 8 if you wanna check out the VOD on twitch.tv/fadgames
I figured I'd share the sideboard guide I sent him, for the specific matchups he asked about:
Death & Taxes
We have to take out Chalice vs their Flickerwisps which means we have no protection from StP for a combo - I cut most of the combo since Mentor/Karn/Ballista are all very good vs them and they'll be bringing in Rest in Peace too. Containment Priests come in to stop instant Flickerwisps (or anything off vial) but mainly for two other reasons - first to stop their recruiter/fwisp chain since this is a really grindy matchup. second as an ambush viper for attacking revokers that are likely naming our best thing in play. I usually play around Spirit of the Labyrinth since we don't have to worry about discard. Also, Salvagers can still be very good without LED, looping Lotus Petal for Mentor triggers, drawing extra cards, or rebuying Ballista.
+2 Aura of Silence
+1 Cast Out
+3 Containment Priest
+2 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Sanctum Prelate
-3 LED
-2 Salvagers
-4 Chalice
Reanimator
+3 Containment Priest
+2 Ensnaring Bridge
+2 Tormod's Crypt
+1 Sanctum Prelate
-4 Mentor
-4 Karn
On the play I'll bring in Canonist too
+2 Canonist
-2 Bauble
Grixis Control
+2 Aura of Silence (slows strix, stops EE, and in case they have null rod/needle/bloodmoon/counterbalance)
+2 Tormod's Crypt (good vs Snapcaster, KCommand, and Angler - i'll pop in response to a fetch just to slow an angler, so be mindful of gy count)
-1 LED
-1 Salvagers
-1 Urza's Bauble
-1 Walking Ballista
Dredge
+3 Containment Priest
+2 Tormod's Crypt
-4 Karn
-1 Mentor
Chalice on 1 is good to stop therapies and discard outlets. Keep them off 3 creatures to stop Dread Return by shooting ichorid's/narcomeobas in their draw step. Exile bridges with your ballista to their face, or to a monk
GB Depths
vs other fast combo you'll want to combo them because it's your fastest way to win, so other win-cons are cut to bring in cards that buy you time to combo, and Auras for their needles.
+2 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Cast Out
+2 Ensnaring Bridge
+2 Tormod's Crypt
+2 Aura of Silence
-4 Mentor
-4 Karn
-1 Urza's Bauble
Miracles
vs control it's important to have Aura to stop an EE on 0, and Karn and Cavern are also very important cards. Because of their sweepers, ticking down with Karn isn't great, especially along side a Mentor already creating pressure. Karn's +1 will find lots of land to let you keep playing through a Back to Basics, the Cast Out is for Jace mostly, but if they have their own Mentor it's going to out class ours by miles. They shouldn't bring in Surgical, but they do, so play around that. Also, Mishra's Babules are good for checking the top vs a counterbalance, so don't waste them on cycles unless you're digging for something you need ASAP.
+2 Aura of Silence
+1 Sanctum Prelate
+1 Cast Out
-1 LED
-1 Salvagers
-1 Walking Ballista
-1 Urza's Bauble
Stoneblade
You can't combo through a Jitte with 4 counters, so we're always happy to see them search up Batterskull - you can cancel out lifegain and jitte triggers by blocking with monks and pinging them before damage (or just blocking with Ballista). Getting Karn's tokens to 5/5's or bigger usually handles a batteskull. Also watch out for EE from them and keep your Aura's around as long as possible.
+2 Aura of Silence
+1 Cast Out
-1 Urza's Bauble
-1 Mox Opal
-1 Walking Ballista (unless they have Baleful Strixes, then shave another Urza's Bauble or LED instead)
Dragon stompy
Winning this matchup will take some luck -- either them not drawing Chalice, or playing their Chalice on non-zero, or you having an answer (that you can actually cast through Bloodmoon) for their first Chalice and them not drawing a second. Don't blow up their Chalice on 0 on-site since it is preventing them from playing a second - wait until you either have to blow it up, or you have the combo. Also make sure you don't blow your baubles if they're giving you metalcraft for your Opal, since actual white mana will be hard to come by. They'll also pump your Karn tokens which may be your only win-con if they have multiple lock pieces.
+2 Aura of Silence
+1 Cast Out
+2 Swords to Plowshares (for goblins)
+1 Sanctum Prelate (on 4 for Fiery Confluence and Chandra)
-4 Chalice
-1 Urza's Bauble
-1 Mentor (they usually have sulfur elemental post board)
Sneak and Show
Staying at 16 life or higher, especially game 1 when we have mentors and karns can let you survive an Emrakul attack and then combo them.
we bring in a bunch of hate bears for our non-combo wincons, but the bears can still present a decent clock, which is important
+2 Ensnaring Bridge
+1 Cast Out
+1 Sanctum Prelate
+3 Containment Priest
+2 Aura of Silence (they will get Game Rules Violations for playing Petals without paying tax - also slows Sneak and can pick off an Omniscience if they don't immediately have the Emrakul)
+2 Etherswon Canonist if they have Omniscience
-4 Mentor
-4 Karn
-1 City of Traitors (on the draw)
-1 Urza's Bauble (on the play)
if bringing in 11 instead of 9, then the other two shaves are probably a Ballista and another bauble or the city of traitors regardless of play/draw
Food Chain
not a real thing - but i wouldn't worry since our combo is faster and Aura of Silence is going to be really good vs them (FC, but also Strix and Relic and Library)
+2 Aura of Silence
+2 Canonist
+1 Prelate (on 3 for Food Chain and Toxic Deluge or 2 for Abrut Decay/Assassin's Trophy or 1 for cantrips/discard/fatal pushes)
-4 Karn
-1 Urza's Bauble
i guess (haven't tested or played this matchup) I don't want to shave Opal when Aura of Silence is so key, I don't want to shave multiple baubles when we're keeping all our Mentors in, I don't want to shave Ballista's vs a Strix deck, and I don't want to shave combo vs another combo deck
Delver
+2 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Sanctum Prelate
+1 Cast Out
if you see/know about Null Rod then Aura's have to come in too
I've been shaving in this matchup
-1 Karn
-1 Mentor
-1 Salvagers
-1 LED
though RUG delver is much more likely to have multiple Sulfur Elemental, so i'd just cut the mentors in that matchup
FYI we have zero instants pre-board, so using baubles on their turn by default both plays around discard, and makes it harder to miss a bauble trigger since you'll have a die on top of your deck. put the die on the actual number of triggers you'll have - it helps.
Post board you'll more often want to use baubles on your turn to draw Containment Priest/Swords to Plowshares/Cast Out that you can cast on their turn
In the interest of discussion, why are you keeping in Petal and cutting threats against control decks? The absolute weakest card against Miracles and Grixis Control, in my experience, is Petal. It also seems like you are way overvaluing using the board to avoid EE. Why not rely on Spyglass so that you don't have to bring the hardest card to cast in your deck (Aura) in for so so many matchups. It seems to me (feel to disagree) that you are spending so much time using board slots to fight a one-of in some decks. What do you think?
The major upgrade in mono-white is not just the number of plains (which do shore up wasteland matchups and help with resolving sideboard cards against moon decks) but also the number of sol lands that can be run to help with resolving our four-drops.
I doubt you are in the minority. Trinket Mage (and what it can grab) is significantly more powerful than Imperial Recruiter.
Those are really good points/suggestions. I've thought a lot about whether Aura of Silence is more cute than good because of your posit. I don't see Aura of Silence as targeted hate for Engineered Explosives, similar to the way Death's Shadow decks were running Throne of Geth for Chalice.
We have to play answers for Chalice in our Sideboard. Rather than Core Tapper and/or Surge Node, we run artifact/enchantment removal that is more versatile. We also decide on removal that has synergy with Mentor. Now we're pretty much locked into Seal of Cleansing and Oblivion Ring effects
The individual power level of Aura of Silence is so much higher than Seal of Cleansing. It does the exact same thing as Seal while also preventing the opponent from even playing things we would want to destroy with Seal. With additional corner cases of potential GRV's for our opponent, preventing the opponent from emptying their hand with an Ensnaring Bridge in play, and yes, it makes one of the best cards against us virtually impossible to cast (at X=0).
I have decided that, personally, the individual power level of Aura of Silence, when compared to Seal of Cleansing, is worth the additional difficulty to cast. And it is that difficulty to cast that also means I can't shave/cut Lotus Petals when I sideboard it in.
But Aura of Silence is not being boarded in vs matchups where Seal of Cleansing would not be boarded in (except for maybe Storm when I'm on the play). The 2x Aura of Silence in my sideboard are 1-for-1 replacements for the 2x Seal of Cleansing I used to have in my sideboard.
If the power level is not worth the potential mana troubles or sideboard limitations to someone else, I would still recommend an even swap back to Seal of Cleansing. Any Sorcerous Spyglass you might want in your 75 would come at the expense of other slots. Another personal preference, but I'm not running fewer than 3 answers to Chalice.
I like Sorcerous Spyglass and tested with it a lot. I felt the power level of Spyglass and its impact on post-sideboard games with this deck didn't warrant a SB slot over the cards I'm running. I think if you disagree and are going to have them in your sideboard, the Sanctum Prelate is the first cut. Then I'd either cut a Karn in the main to promote an Ethersworn Canonist from the sideboard, freeing a second slot - OR - just maindeck a Spyglass with the same cut, for 1x main/1x side.
Made 2-2 with monowhite bomberman.
Wins:
2-1 Burn
2-0 Miracles
Lose:
1-2 U/B ninjas
0-2 Sneak and show
List:
Mana:
4 Cavern of Souls
2 karakas
3 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Ancient Den
4 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
Creatures:
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Walking Ballista
4 Monastery Mentor
Draw:
4 Urza's Bauble
4 Mishra's Bauble
1 Lodestone Bauble
Other:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Karn, Scion of Urza
Sideboard:
2 Containment Priest
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ethresworn Cannonist
2 aura of silence
2 ensnaring bridge
2 faerie macabre
2 disenchant
1 tormods crypt
2 Swords to plowshares
I will make changes in sideboard:
-1 disenchant
-1 tormods
+1 priest
+1 sanctum prelate
Just dont know what to side in/out againt u/b faeries. What I did is -1 led, -1 auriok +2 StP
Againt Burn: -2 Karn, +2 STP (THIS IS CORRECT ?)
Miracles: -1 led, -1 auriok, +2 aura of silence
Its really dificult to beat combo decks
I agree with you about Spyglass. The reason it has remained in my board is an irrational fear of wasteland, which was a serious problem six months ago when DnT was everywhere. I have a 1k tomorrow, and you've inspired me to try something else in that slot of my U/W build.
I would recommend Sanctum Prelate in the board to help shore up combo matchups.
So I did another primer on reddit. It's been a week or two (because I can't get on to the source at work), but it's up and I'd like to think it's pretty good.
That said, it's already somewhat out of date, maybe. I noticed (shortly after posting that primer) the intuition/unburial rites package in that spicy Japanese list from (a few?) pages ago, and decided to try it out. It's pretty stupid good. It works really well with LED, intuition is still a very powerful card, and the mana costs generally line up the way you want them to for the deck.
Anyway, has anyone else done any playing around with this?
Do you have a list using the package that you like? Or are you just running the list as-is?
I played Bomberman yesterday at a tourney here in Brazil (84 players) to 2nd place finish. The deck felt great, fun and really powerful.
My matches : Rd1 vs D&T (2-1), Rd2 vs Grixis Shadow (0-2), Rd3 vs BUG Delver (2-1), Rd4 vs Burn (2-1), Rd5 vs BR Reanimator (2-1), Rd6 vs MUD (2-0) and Rd7 vs D&T (2-1) ;
Top 8 vs Goblins (2-0) ; Top 4 vs ANT (2-1) ;
There were no finals because the top 2 players get a spot in the league finals in December.
My list :
4 x Auriok Salvagers
4 x Monastery Mentor
4 x Walking Ballista
4 x Lion's Eye Diamond
4 x Lotus Petal
4 x Chalice of the Void
4 x Urza's Bauble
4 x Mishra's Bauble
3 x Mox Opal
1 x Lodestone Bauble
4 x Karn, Scion of Urza
4 x Ancient Tomb
4 x City of Traitors
4 x Cavern of Souls
4 x Ancient Den
2 x Plains
2 x Karakas
SB
3 x Swords to Plowshares
2 x Ethersworn Canonist
2 x Containment Priest
2 x Tormod's Crypt
2 x Ensnaring Bridge
2 x Disenchant
1 x Sorcerous Spyglass
1 x Council's Judgment
It's really hilarious comboing out with Lodestone Bauble...
# The Bizarro Super Powers Team - Casting Abyssal Persecutors FTW !
Congrats on the win! Explaining why someone has lost when you combo with Lodestone Bauble is probably the most fun thing you can do with this deck. I rock a Portuguese Lodestone Bauble here in the US for even more WTF reactions, but you'll need a French or German one.
Thanks f7eleven ! It's really a great feeling winning games with such a bizarre card. Keep jamming Bufarinha de Magnetita (Lodestone Bauble) at your oponents then !Congrats on the win! Explaining why someone has lost when you combo with Lodestone Bauble is probably the most fun thing you can do with this deck. I rock a Portuguese Lodestone Bauble here in the US for even more WTF reactions, but you'll need a French or German one.
About the deck, the only card that I'd change is the Council in the Sb. WW in the cost is too rough sometimes. I guess I'm swapping for a 2nd Spyglass or a Ratchet Bomb at the moment.
Two of my matches were recorded in case someone is interested :
- Rd6 vs MUD : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/400507425 at 04hs08min
- Semifinals vs ANT : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/400688970 at 01hs25min
# The Bizarro Super Powers Team - Casting Abyssal Persecutors FTW !
The Legacy Pit invited me to do a series of matchups for their YouTube channel, if you wanna check it out. The Miracles matchup is normally much tougher, but then I lost vs UR Delver, which is usually a very good matchup. We also played a match vs Eldrazi Aggro which didn't get posted, where I was able to beat Chalice on 0 twice, once with a Karn fueled Mentor, then with a Ballista that grew each turn while she flooded.
https://youtu.be/lkKpjc-8OLw
I was wondering how you 2-0'd MUD... it was by losing the die roll (and him leading on Chalice X=1).
Ow, great ! I'll be watching as soon as I can !!
About MUD, yeah, chalice for 0 would hurt as bit, but I've beaten this line of play jamming mentors and Karn (he's really awesome) against Goblins and D&T in this same tournament.
People still dont know how to properly face this deck, so they make a lot of mistakes against us.
# The Bizarro Super Powers Team - Casting Abyssal Persecutors FTW !
I really like the idea of intuition/unburial rites, but how does one protect it (and not lose too many turns in not doing so) while it seems like a strength of the deck is caverns protection for the creatures that can close the game by themselves. Any thoughts?
I'm definitely playing this in a 5k this weekend. Looking to hammer out the sideboard. As of now. I'm looking at something like this.
2 Cast Out
2 Aura of Silence
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priest
I'm a little concerned about not having enough answers to chalice on zero with that also potentially limiting my white sources. Aura will likely be swapped with Ratchet Bomb.
I really want to have Sanctum Prelate or Sorcerous Spyglass in the board but the space is so limited.
Thoughts?
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
Once you go Legacy...
Yeah, Aura of Silence WW mana cost can really be tough. Another option in that slot could be Disenchant or the Bombs like you said.
If you really want to use Prelate or Spyglass, I'd cut the Blessed Alliance for those.
# The Bizarro Super Powers Team - Casting Abyssal Persecutors FTW !
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