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Thread: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

  1. #201
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Great list thanks! You wouldn't happen to have any sideboarding guide you use with this list? Going to play almost 1:1 list tomorrow and I'm so confused about what to take out and so on.

  2. #202
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    In the meantime I left the imperial Recruiter behind for the time being and tried some Monastery Mentor and I must say I am hooked. I played WB and I guess Dark Confidant and especially the plan B that Mentor provides are exactly what this deck needs IMHO. I would like to squeeze in 2 Recruiters, but I guess watering down the Mentor plan should not be the first step.

    Here is Caleb's list from long ago with my own manabase and sideboard:

    2 Ancient Den
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 City of Traitors
    3 Spire of Industry
    1 Vault of Whispers

    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Infernal Tutor
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mishra's Bauble
    4 Mox Opal
    4 Urza's Bauble

    4 Auriok Salvagers
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Monastery Mentor
    4 Walking Ballista

    Sideboard
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Engineered Explosives
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    2 Oblivion Ring
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Magus of the Moon
    1 Karakas

    The sideboard is a hot mess and I would really like to play Recruiters as they open up so many convenient sideboard options. I think that with Cavern/Spire/Opal we also have the mana to play non-BW spells consistently by maybe laying the fourth Spire of Industry.
    Chalice on 1

  3. #203
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    I have been experimenting with this UWB list for the last month, making various tweaks along the way, and wanted to share it in case anyone else wants to take it for a spin.

    Creatures:19
    4 Walking Ballista
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Monastery Mentor
    3 Trinket Mage
    4 Auriok Salvagers

    Spells:23
    4 Chalice of the Void
    1 Engineered Explosives
    3 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mishra's Bauble
    3 Mox Opal
    4 Urza's Bauble

    Lands:18
    2 Ancient Den
    3 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    2 City of Traitors
    1 Inventors' Fair
    3 Marsh Flats
    1 Plains
    1 Scrubland
    1 Tundra

    Sideboard:15
    2 Containment Priest
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Kitesail Freebooter
    1 Meddling Mage
    1 Devout Witness
    1 Orzhov Pontiff
    2 Recruiter of the Guard
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Ensnaring Bridge

    A couple notes:
    • I have played a UW list, but not having access to pure card advantage is a problem, as is losing Pontiff and Kitesail from the board. Playing UWB provides a bunch of maindeck play, particularly because Trinket Mage can help to protect the combo by finding another Chalice or just finding a needed LED or Ballista. Being able to cut a LED for a maindeck EE and having three ways to tutor for it has worked great. Trinket Mage is also especially fun with an LED in play because it can be used as an uncounterable artifact-Infernal Tutor, such as by resolving Trinket, putting the trigger on the stack, tapping mana and sacrificing LEDs and then putting that mana into a searched-up Ballista.
    • Playing Recruiter of the Guard in the board for a tutor-package has been fantastic. It helps a great deal in finding the right hate at the right time and in a grindy matchup can just be used to go find another Mentor. Overall, Recruiter of the Guard effectively satisfies most of the argument for running Imperial Recuiter in terms of SB flexibility, which is great because it decreases the need to run yet another color.
    • The two Ensnaring Bridges feel like a necessary concession to decks like Lands, SnS, Turbo Depths and Eldrazi because it is necessary to buy time. This slot has been all over the place--from Cast Out to Swords--but Bridge ultimately feels like the best option. Obviously each of these decks that bridge comes in for can get rid of it, but at least it provides a defense to aggro decks trying to smash face.
    • Some of the SB cards are somewhat weird but so far have worked. Michiko has been wonderful against aggro and delver decks. Devout Witness provides an out to a bunch of hate, including Leyline and RIP. It is also just great against DnT. Meddling Mage is just another uncounterable human that can disrupt an opponent (and provides one of the few ways to interact with the casting of creature spells that are not turned off by Chalice).
    • So far the manabase has felt sufficient to support all three colors. There are seven non-white spells in the maindeck and four Caverns, three Opals, four petals and three fetches to find the right color at the right time. I understand the appeal of Spire, but the idea of taking even more damage than what is dealt by Ancient Tomb feels like a problem, particularly against Delver. Certainly Spire as a rainbow option is great, but so is being able to fetch a basic when all of the deck's colors are online. I could see the argument for another Opal, but it's a terrible card in multiples, particularly when the deck is one short of metalcraft early in the game and the only other artifact in hand is a second Opal.
    • Lastly, there is no Lodestone Bauble in the list for a couple of reasons. Its capacity as an alternate win-con is very narrow. If an opponent has a chasm in play, it will still be possible to shoot them if they ever get rid of it in order to attack, unless for the unlikely instance in which they also have K Grip and there is only a single Ballista in play after going off. If an opponent is generally hexproof, EE provides a means to destroy whatever is enabling that hexproof ability. If Lodestone Bauble is there for when Ballista is surgical-ed then it is not that necessary because Mentor still provides an alternate win con. If they have gotten rid of Ballistas and Mentors but for some reason not LEDs, then the deck has probably already lost anyways. The only argument I see for Lodestone is just to play another Bauble (which is fair) but the idea that an opponent will get rid of Mentor and Ballista but somehow still let this deck keep LED and Salvagers is very unlikely. Plus in those cases it is still possible to draw most of the deck without Lodestone in order to play out a bunch of threats.


    I would love to hear if anyone else has or will give this a go and how it turns out.
    Last edited by cosmiccoil; 04-20-2018 at 01:00 PM.

  4. #204

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Anyone gotten any significant testing in with the new karn, scion of urza? He's been petty fantastic for me, wondering if anyone else has results yet.

  5. #205
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    I have done some theoretical testing. Did you replace the Dark Confidants with him?

    He is great as he offers yet another good alternative win condition playing with all those crappy baubles and then generating multiple big token beaters.

    Coming from this colored list:
    2 Ancient Den
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 City of Traitors
    1 Inventors' Fair
    1 Karakas
    2 Spire of Industry

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mishra's Bauble
    4 Mox Opal
    4 Urza's Bauble

    4 Auriok Salvagers
    4 Dark Confidant
    2 Imperial Recruiter
    4 Monastery Mentor
    4 Walking Ballista

    Sideboard
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Engineered Explosives
    2 Sanctum Prelate
    2 Oblivion Ring
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Devout Witness
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Palace Jailer

    For a Karn version I took Chemicalburn's monowhite approach and came to this similar list:

    2 Ancient Den
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    3 City of Traitors
    1 Inventors' Fair
    1 Karakas
    4 Plains

    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Engineered Explosives
    3 Karn, Scion of Urza
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mishra's Bauble
    4 Mox Opal
    4 Urza's Bauble

    4 Auriok Salvagers
    4 Monastery Mentor
    4 Walking Ballista

    Sideboard
    3 Containment Priest
    2 Sanctum Prelate
    2 Oblivion Ring
    1 Orzhov Pontiff
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Devout Witness
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Palace Jailer

    Basically I replaced 4 Dark Confidant & 2 Imperial Recruiter by 3 Karn and 2 EE and a land.

    Please generally disregard the sideboards as there is a lot of Sneak and Show, Reanimator and Elves played in my LGS. In general I would try and play one more Pontiff and maybe even some humans like Warpriest of Thune or Manic Vandal.

    Things I am unsure of:
    1. do we have enough gas?
    2. Is EE good with such a monowhite manabase?
    3. How good are splashed humans like Manic Vandal or Magus of the Moon?
    4. Is the benefit of a few plains worth the loss in raw power of Dark confidant and Recruiter?
    Chalice on 1

  6. #206
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    I think you can run the Lodestone Bauble instead of the extra land. The fact that you get to run so many basics means there isn't as must of a need to have an additional land to defend against wasteland. I have found Recruiter of the Guard to be great in the board in my esper build; she seems particularly great in a mono-white build because it would give you more access to your sideboard hate cards. Just a thought.

  7. #207

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    4 Monastery Mentor
    4 Auriok Salvagers
    4 Walking Ballista

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Mox Opal
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mishra's Bauble
    4 Urza's Bauble
    1 Lodestone Bauble
    1 Engineered Explosives
    3 Karn, Scion of Urza

    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Ancient Den
    1 Karakas
    1 Inventors' Fair
    2 Plains

    Sideboard
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Seal of Cleansing
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Engineered Explosives

    A solid 3-1 with Bomberman tonight. Here's the report.

    Round 1: Turbo Depths

    Game 1: On the play, I Chalice him on 1 off Den and Petal and play some trinkets, he passes, I crack trinkets, draw City, Opal and can cast a Chalice for two. Nothing in his deck works except natural combo (though he does natural Bog away my trinkets). I combo him on turn 3 anyway with Inventors' Fair - make Salvagers, make infinite mana with LED, then crack Inventors' Fair and Ballista his face.

    +3 Swords to Plowshares
    +2 Seal of Cleansing
    +2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    +1 Engineered Explosives
    -4 Chalice of the Void
    -4 Walking Ballista

    As amazing Chalice was in g1, g2 on the draw I'm less enamoured. I'd adjust my sideboard in game three, if it comes to that.

    Game 2: Ships passing in the night. He has land, I have Tomb, trinket, go, he EoT Crop Rots for DD, then next turn plays Urborg, Hexmage - we're going to die! I EoT crack trinket. Next turn, I play Lotus Petal, LED, City, Salvagers. Make infinite mana and then realise I can revive my Petal, upkeep draw my whole deck and then Plow his Marit Lage. I do that, then Lodestone Bauble him for the kill next turn.

    Round 2: Death & Taxes

    Game 1: Disgusting. I win the roll. Turn one Chalice, turn two Mentor + make three Monks, he t2 Stoneforges (gets Batterskull), I find an EE off cracked trinkets, have two Petals to Sunburst two and kill SFM in the same turn and smash in for a billion.

    -4 Chalice of the Void
    -2 Lion's Eye Diamond
    -1 Lodestone Bauble
    -1 Karn, Scion of Urza
    +3 Swords to Plowshares
    +2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    +2 Seal of Cleansing
    +1 Engineered Explosives

    Note sure about this boarding. Chalice is an obvious out, and I like trimming LEDs and going for the grindy beatdown in this matchup. I think we really want Karn since he's all about our grind plan so... Maybe cut a deader card like an Opal? Not sure.

    Game 2: He has t1 Vial, I have t1 land, go, he's screwed on mana, I play t2 Mentor and make some more Monks off trinkets and an Opal. He Vials in Mom, starts establishing a board with Thalia, but eventually I drop Karn and tick him up. He finds an Opal and an EE! I get given the Opal, but eventually the EE wipes the Mom and Vial, I Plow Thalia, Pontiff wipes my board, but Karn creating an artifact leads to Metalcraft reoccuring and then a Salvagers able to legend-loop Opals until my opponent dies to a sea of Monks. Neat.

    Round 3: Grixis Delver

    Game 1: Disgusting. On the play, Chalice into turn three Salvagers with double LED on the table and a Ballista in the bin. GG.

    -2 Lion's Eye Diamond
    -1 Karn, Scion of Urza
    +2 Swords to Plowshares
    +1 Engineered Explosives

    Maybe cut an additional Karn for the fourth Plow? Seems a bit clunky, and counterable unlike out other powerhouses.

    Game 2: He starts on land, go, after Probing me. He sees my Chalice, Ballista and Salvagers. I smell a Spell Pierce! So I turn one Ballista, which he Brainstorms then actually Forces! Turns out (he tells me afterwards) he needed to preserve his Pyromancer. Fair enough. Next turn he still holds up Pierce, so I don't play into it again and play (off a Cavern) a freshly draw Mentor. I play Opal after that which he burns his Pierce on. Next turn I Chalice him, cast a Petal, smash in with Monks and the game soon ends.

    Round 4: Infect

    Game 1: On the draw he casts an Elf. I turn one Chalice him. He plays a Hierarch into it to test me, pokes me for one and plays an Inkmoth. I play a Mentor on turn two, he then activates Inkmoth and double Invigorates me. Okay then.

    Boarded like this:
    -2 Lion's Eye Diamond
    -3 Karn, Scion of Urza
    -1 Lodestone Bauble
    +3 Swords to Plowshares
    +2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    +1 Engineered Explosives

    Actually should've boarded in Seal of Cleansing over the Spyglasses. As we'll soon see.

    Game 2: I turn one Chalice. Yeap. Then turn two, Cavern on Construct, Ballista on one. He then turn two... Null Rods me. My hand (and the Ancient Den in play) soon do nothing. I die to a slow death by Inkmoth and Blighted Agent. Sad.

    I think the Infect matchup was very unlucky (Game 1 I think my hand is very good, my opponent's was just absurd and Null Rod is just generally very unlucky) but otherwise the deck works like a charm. Especially against most of the fair decks. I think my sideboard needs a bit of work, so I'll be looking to honing in on that. The Recruiter of the Guard sideboard sounds a bit exciting... Not sure how I'd construct it, but I'll give it a think in the weeks to come.

    Also will repost the benefits of this list over splash versions I feel that I posted on reddit:

    I think this is a GREAT Karn shell. And slimming down Bomberman to mono-White provides us with so so much. Firstly:

    - Mox Opal has always been a bit of an issue as a repeatable mana source in Bomberman. Now with room for Ancient Den, the Opals are almost always on.
    - With Opal on more often, I've bumped up the number of sol lands. This is great for a few reasons. Ideally, you can get some disgusting turn two Karn action going, or just the usual busted Mentor stuff.
    - Speaking of Karn, this deck makes some disgustingly large tokens with all the cantrip rocks lying around. Also, the deck is incredibly redundant - hitting a cantrip rock is very serviceable.

    I can't wait to keep testing him. The card is great. It only suffers in unfair matchups, obviously, but at least you can beat down with a big token there too.

  8. #208

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    I took @ChemicalBurns' exact list to a local three-rounder this past Saturday, though with a tweaked board that looked like this:

    3 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Containment Priest (lots of Reanimator/Tin Fins/Sneak in the local meta)
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Seal of Cleansing
    1 Unexpectedly Absent (Wanted to test this out due to the uptick in Depths decks; never came in, and the color requirement is too high, so I'd probably swap to another Spyglass)

    I went 2-1, beating Dredge and Mono-Blue Painter each in two games, then losing to my buddy on Grixis Delver in a close three. (I kept a very questionable hand game three that I wouldn't keep again in hindsight; he quickly figured out my deck and played tight the whole time to keep me off mana and get a much-deserved win.)

    I played a couple W/B lists with Dark Confidant last year and had some success, but I shelved it due to poor Sneak & Show and Blood Moon Stompy matchups. While I didn't face either of those matchups here, overall I found this version of the deck to run much smoother due to the reduced color requirements.

    Also, I never lost when I resolved a Karn. Card is an absolute house, but since he brings the deck's average CMC up, it's more important than ever to protect your mana base. Not sure if it's worth going up another land, and I definitely wouldn't want to cut down from 9 baubles. For what it's worth, Inventor's Fair also performed well, fetching up LEDs to combo out and even a timely Tormod's Crypt vs. Dredge. Remember you can sack LEDs in response to the ability to create mana for things like Ballista if you're looking to push through the last couple points of damage.

    I'll be playing this deck more in the coming weeks as my schedule allows. Excited for the potential here.

    Edit: I also played a couple practice matches versus Grixis Delver (different player) before the tournament began. I think the matchup is significantly in Bomberman's favor Game 1, but most Delver lists these days have a lot to bring in against the deck (Ancient Grudge being great and Cabal Therapy being especially effective, since it's pretty easy for us to get payoff cards like Salvagers and Karn stuck in hand for a turn). I think that evens out the matchup considerably for them, though I want to test more before drawing a big conclusion and seeing if we need to modify as a result.

  9. #209
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by maxtopig View Post
    I took @ChemicalBurns' exact list to a local three-rounder this past Saturday, though with a tweaked board that looked like this:

    3 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Containment Priest (lots of Reanimator/Tin Fins/Sneak in the local meta)
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Seal of Cleansing
    1 Unexpectedly Absent (Wanted to test this out due to the uptick in Depths decks; never came in, and the color requirement is too high, so I'd probably swap to another Spyglass)
    Why do you both play Seal of cleansing, when Oblivion Ring/Cast Out is a lot better vs. Sneak and Show?

    I also got the impression that Karn is the real deal, as most of the time he makes tokens, those are 6/6 or 7/7 and even the lowly -2 into -2 the next turn is often game winning.

    I really like the rest of the deck even though I still play a BW variant with Karn. Unfortunately we don't play this week, but I will play an Angelbaka derivation like this:
    //Lands
    2 Ancient Den
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    3 City of Traitors
    1 Karakas
    2 Scrubland
    1 Vault of Whispers

    //Spells
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Karn, Scion of Urza
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mishra's Bauble
    4 Mox Opal
    4 Urza's Bauble

    //Creatures
    4 Auriok Salvagers
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Monastery Mentor
    4 Walking Ballista

    //Sideboard
    SB: 2 Containment Priest
    SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
    SB: 3 Swords to Plowshares
    SB: 2 Oblivion Ring
    SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
    SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
    Last edited by hofzge; 05-07-2018 at 08:19 AM.
    Chalice on 1

  10. #210

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by hofzge View Post
    Why do you both play Seal of cleansing, when Oblivion Ring/Cast Out is a lot better vs. Sneak and Show?
    Great question. Four reasons:

    1. Mana is very, very tight in this deck (hence why I'm considering going up to 20 lands). The extra mana costs of Oblivion Ring and especially Cast Out are prohibitive IMHO. This is a combo deck with an alternative gameplan, and removal normally functions to take out opposing lock pieces or anything on the board trying to stall you from comboing. I think our answers should be lean.

    2. Not a knock against Cast Out, obviously, but being able to remove something at the end of opponent's turn is often very important.

    3. Seal of Cleansing doesn't need a target on the opponent's board to be played, meaning it can be an effective way to trigger prowess when you need more and bigger Monks. In testing the deck last year, this came up more often that I thought it might, as one of your "combos" is just assembling a critical mass of non-creature spells to play with a Mentor on board.

    4. When I kill something with this deck, I generally want it dead. Though it's not common, the other enchantment-based removal mentioned can be removed, leaving you back at square one.

    Of course, Ring and Cast Out are both more flexible as far as their ability to remove opposing threats and locks pieces, so there's certainly a tradeoff. Because of the above, I just happen to think Seal of Cleansing is the superior board card (for now).

    Other card I might try testing as a one-of maindeck: Mind Stone. Some mana acceleration that also triggers prowess, makes Karn tokens bigger, and potentially digs a card deeper. Might be way too off the wall/too slow in this format, but I might try slotting one in to see how I like it.

  11. #211

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    First appearance of Bomberman (to my knowledge) in an MTGO Legacy Challenge!

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nge-2018-05-07

    Never thought I'd see this one online since playing takes a nearly prohibitive number of clicks (at least that's my impression).

    Interesting list with no artifact lands, and I guess I wasn't the only one considering Mind Stone main. May give this a whirl, though I think I'd immediately miss the Ancient Dens for turning on Opal. And Inventor's Fair has just been too good for me to cut.

  12. #212

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by maxtopig View Post
    3 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Containment Priest (lots of Reanimator/Tin Fins/Sneak in the local meta)
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Seal of Cleansing
    1 Unexpectedly Absent (Wanted to test this out due to the uptick in Depths decks; never came in, and the color requirement is too high, so I'd probably swap to another Spyglass)
    Just a note about the sideboard moving forward - we need to play Sanctum Prelate over Canonist. Losing to Hurkyl's is so, so, brutal and we also need a fair bit of help in the S&S matchup where Canonist is very medium and Prelate can be game-winning.

    Also, Spyglass has been stellar for me. There have been times where I've Inventors' Faired for it too.

    About Seal...

    Quote Originally Posted by maxtopig View Post
    Great question. Four reasons:

    1. Mana is very, very tight in this deck (hence why I'm considering going up to 20 lands). The extra mana costs of Oblivion Ring and especially Cast Out are prohibitive IMHO. This is a combo deck with an alternative gameplan, and removal normally functions to take out opposing lock pieces or anything on the board trying to stall you from comboing. I think our answers should be lean.

    2. Not a knock against Cast Out, obviously, but being able to remove something at the end of opponent's turn is often very important.

    3. Seal of Cleansing doesn't need a target on the opponent's board to be played, meaning it can be an effective way to trigger prowess when you need more and bigger Monks. In testing the deck last year, this came up more often that I thought it might, as one of your "combos" is just assembling a critical mass of non-creature spells to play with a Mentor on board.

    4. When I kill something with this deck, I generally want it dead. Though it's not common, the other enchantment-based removal mentioned can be removed, leaving you back at square one.

    Of course, Ring and Cast Out are both more flexible as far as their ability to remove opposing threats and locks pieces, so there's certainly a tradeoff. Because of the above, I just happen to think Seal of Cleansing is the superior board card (for now).
    Agree on all these points. Seal also is very valuable against Stompy by coming down on t1 before a Moon/Chalice/whatever screws your ability to cast things. I think the biggest reason is being able to trigger Mentor, too. Sometime you just need one non-creature spell to win.

    I like Cast Out quite a bit though as a slow but reasonable answer to Marit Lage in addition to other things, of course. Any grindy matchup I will bring it, since it can always be cycled too. I've been playing it as a consistent one-of flex in my SB.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxtopig View Post
    Also, I never lost when I resolved a Karn. Card is an absolute house, but since he brings the deck's average CMC up, it's more important than ever to protect your mana base. Not sure if it's worth going up another land, and I definitely wouldn't want to cut down from 9 baubles. For what it's worth, Inventor's Fair also performed well, fetching up LEDs to combo out and even a timely Tormod's Crypt vs. Dredge. Remember you can sack LEDs in response to the ability to create mana for things like Ballista if you're looking to push through the last couple points of damage.
    Ancient Den making our Mox Opals more consistent also sort-of adds to the mana, in my mind, as older lists did not have it as a consistent mana source (it was more like a Lotus Petal effect). I think 19 lands (with the one-of Fair as a split between tutor and land) is perfect. Original lists actually used to play eighteen!

    Quote Originally Posted by maxtopig View Post
    First appearance of Bomberman (to my knowledge) in an MTGO Legacy Challenge!

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nge-2018-05-07

    Never thought I'd see this one online since playing takes a nearly prohibitive number of clicks (at least that's my impression).

    Interesting list with no artifact lands, and I guess I wasn't the only one considering Mind Stone main. May give this a whirl, though I think I'd immediately miss the Ancient Dens for turning on Opal. And Inventor's Fair has just been too good for me to cut.
    I think not playing Dens is a mistake, it really adds consistency to your Opals. I do like the idea of Horizon Canopy though, but does add to the pain of an already suffering mana base.

    Anyway, updated list:

    4 Monastery Mentor
    4 Auriok Salvagers
    4 Walking Ballista

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Mox Opal
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mishra's Bauble
    4 Urza's Bauble
    1 Lodestone Bauble
    1 Engineered Explosives
    3 Karn, Scion of Urza

    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Ancient Den
    1 Inventors' Fair
    4 Plains

    Sideboard
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Sanctum Prelate
    2 Seal of Cleansing
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Warping Wail
    1 Cast Out
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Swords to Plowshares/Blessed Alliance

    Changed the mana around a little (died to Dragon Stompy's Moon's too much, which seemed silly for a Mono-White deck, but Chalice on Zero turning off rocks into Moon is real). I'm playing around with the idea of Warping Wail after realising our Storm and S&S matchup is suffering a bit, while also having cross utility against Delver and D&T. The last slot is really additional removal that can also deal with Marit Lage. Blessed Alliance I think is interesting since I also found us very weak to TNN.

    I'm not really set on the Mind Stone, but I guess it does have a similar power level to a Signet which I've considered playing in multi-colour versions. Sacrificing MD EE for it though is not where I want to be - EE is one of the best Fair tutor targets and natural draws.

  13. #213
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    hofzge's Avatar
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns View Post
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Ancient Den
    1 Inventors' Fair
    4 Plains

    Changed the mana around a little (died to Dragon Stompy's Moon's too much, which seemed silly for a Mono-White deck, but Chalice on Zero turning off rocks into Moon is real).
    I can see that you want to play as many white sources as possible, but I really don't like cutting the 3rd City as T2 Karn is so strong. Moon Stompy is a poor matchup anyways with Trinisphere, Chalice on 0 and Moon ruining our day, so that I would not sacrifice percentage versus other decks where an early Karn is devastating.
    Chalice on 1

  14. #214

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Is EE that good with only access to limited colours ?

    Tempted to just play 4x Karn card seems busted in this deck.

  15. #215

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by themtgzealot View Post
    Is EE that good with only access to limited colours ?

    Tempted to just play 4x Karn card seems busted in this deck.

    Thanks

    Pete
    It really is a great flex slot. It:

    • Kills really frustrating zero drops (importantly, Chalice when cast for X = 1 but Sunburst zero) that appear in people's main.
    • Kills creatures, particularly vs. Grixis Delver can clean up Deathrite and Delver or sweep away Pyromancer tokens.
    • Can be re-bought with Salvagers. This is also important when you get into weird spots where you can generate infinite mana but not be able to kill through things like Solitary Confinement + Leyline of Sanctity etc. Just make all the colours with LED and loop EE until the world blows up.
    • Is a really easy way to not only clear the way for Mentor, but also trigger Mentor, typically for free.
    • Excellent Inventors' Fair target to clear away whatever rubbish is stopping you from comboing.
    • EE for two is very achievable with Petals and Opals, and doesn't come as needed as much as you'd think. EE for 3 is a stretch but can occur often in Blood Moon matchups.


    Karn is very good, but it is a very slow, mana-intensive card. When you combo quickly you'll find Karn is the card that rots in your hand and gets discarded to LED. I think 4 may be a little too many, but give it a shot and see how it goes. I'm willing to be wrong, coz the card is very, very good.

  16. #216

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns View Post
    It really is a great flex slot. It:

    • Kills really frustrating zero drops (importantly, Chalice when cast for X = 1 but Sunburst zero) that appear in people's main.
    • Kills creatures, particularly vs. Grixis Delver can clean up Deathrite and Delver or sweep away Pyromancer tokens.
    • Can be re-bought with Salvagers. This is also important when you get into weird spots where you can generate infinite mana but not be able to kill through things like Solitary Confinement + Leyline of Sanctity etc. Just make all the colours with LED and loop EE until the world blows up.
    • Is a really easy way to not only clear the way for Mentor, but also trigger Mentor, typically for free.
    • Excellent Inventors' Fair target to clear away whatever rubbish is stopping you from comboing.
    • EE for two is very achievable with Petals and Opals, and doesn't come as needed as much as you'd think. EE for 3 is a stretch but can occur often in Blood Moon matchups.


    Karn is very good, but it is a very slow, mana-intensive card. When you combo quickly you'll find Karn is the card that rots in your hand and gets discarded to LED. I think 4 may be a little too many, but give it a shot and see how it goes. I'm willing to be wrong, coz the card is very, very good.
    Yea good point does some have valid uses and I have been on board with Sanctum Prelate for some time as Chalice 5-6 - very nice with cavern on human.

    Probably 4 karn would require going up to 4 cities to maximize the potential turn 2s - which increases the chance of awkward hands.

    I'm considering taking a list very close to this to GP Birmingham - how bad is the Mono R prison MU ?

    Got put off Eldrazi as it just can't beat Mono R which I am expecting a lot of.

  17. #217

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by themtgzealot View Post
    I'm considering taking a list very close to this to GP Birmingham - how bad is the Mono R prison MU ?

    Got put off Eldrazi as it just can't beat Mono R which I am expecting a lot of.
    It's pretty miserable. Easily the worst MU for the deck, I think.

    At a big event, I wouldn't really worry about it and just hope to dodge. Locally when we do manage to fire events mono red is super popular for whatever reason - we allow infinite proxies, so it's not a price thing. Very unfortunate.

  18. #218

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by aromaticity View Post
    It's pretty miserable. Easily the worst MU for the deck, I think.

    At a big event, I wouldn't really worry about it and just hope to dodge. Locally when we do manage to fire events mono red is super popular for whatever reason - we allow infinite proxies, so it's not a price thing. Very unfortunate.
    It's our worst mmatchup by far. You can get through sometimes with a busted Mentor draw (and then see Bridge, ugh), but almost never expect to combo between Chalice, Leylines, 3Ball etc. Karn really helps out in this matchup though to find EE or other artifact/enchantment destruction, especially with Chandra and Confluence unable to pressure him.

  19. #219

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    I've been trying out @ChemicalBurns sideboard with Sanctum Prelate, and I agree the card seems like the real deal. It most definitely deserves its spot as a two-of.

    The big issue I've been facing in recent testing is STILL the Sneak & Show matchup, which inevitably seems to take Game 1 (barring a FAST combo on our part, which they can normally stop with plenty of counter magic) then fights through at least one hate piece post-board. I'm still running a single Karakas main, and that's far and away the best draw we have against them, it seems. I may consider going up an additional one in the board, though the numbers are already feel pretty tight!

  20. #220
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    hofzge's Avatar
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by maxtopig View Post
    The big issue I've been facing in recent testing is STILL the Sneak & Show matchup, which inevitably seems to take Game 1 (barring a FAST combo on our part, which they can normally stop with plenty of counter magic) then fights through at least one hate piece post-board. I'm still running a single Karakas main, and that's far and away the best draw we have against them, it seems. I may consider going up an additional one in the board, though the numbers are already feel pretty tight!
    This has been exactly my experience. Locally we have multiple people who sometimes play S&S and that is why I still have 2 Oring in the board despite them being worse than seal of Cleansing in most other matchups. Sanctum Prelate is nice, but against many decks he is slow due to WW in the casting cost. I lost to storm last week and I feel there he is a mediocre replacement for canonist even if once he is in play a lot is good (the way to get there is very hard especially with a perceived change to more TES).
    Chalice on 1

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