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Thread: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

  1. #441
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    If you can do that many wishes, just get a removal for the opposing karn and slam the lattice. (I mean, why else didn't you slam the lattice already?)
    I'm more talking about if you were against something like Dredge, where them casting spells is not really important but their graveyard contents are.

    Also, it could be the case that they just answered your Lattice. My comment was not intended to be an idea in lieu of playing Lattice, just pointing out a possible interaction that plausibly be relevant in some cases, and/or potential future design space cases.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  2. #442

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I'm more talking about if you were against something like Dredge, where them casting spells is not really important but their graveyard contents are.

    Also, it could be the case that they just answered your Lattice. My comment was not intended to be an idea in lieu of playing Lattice, just pointing out a possible interaction that plausibly be relevant in some cases, and/or potential future design space cases.
    Fair enough.

  3. #443
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rationalist View Post
    So I went 4-0 8-0 in the Cardkingdom event last night with the list in the post above.
    Nice! Congrats. You have the Midas touch with this deck. I was pretty seriously considering going in on Bomberman a few months ago, but in testing I couldn't get the matchups against Chalice decks to be favorable. How often do you run into a Chalice deck at the weeklies? And if you've been to some of the recent 1Ks, did you face more/fewer Chalice decks there?

  4. #444
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rationalist View Post
    Looking forward to getting to run New Karn in paper for the first time.

    For tonight, I think I'm going to go with a main-60 along the lines of

    Creatures (8)

    4x Auriok Salvagers
    3x Monastery Mentor
    1x Walking Ballista

    Walkers (9)

    3x Karn, The Great Creator
    3x Karn, Scion of Urza
    3x Teferi, Time Raveler

    Artifacts (22)

    3x Lion's Eye Diamond
    7x Baubles
    3x Mox Opal
    1x Azorius Signet
    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Chalice of the Void

    Spells (2)

    2x Intuition

    Lands (19)

    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Cavern of Souls
    4x Skycloud Expanse
    2x Ancient Den
    1x Plains

    In a deck with so many "I win's", I can't resist another "must force" that also cantrips and interacts. Skycloud Expanse really does not seem like a problem in a deck with this many mana-sources and that so rarely casts anything below 0 < CMC < 3.
    List looks sweet, 'gratz on the result!
    Care to share your sideboard aswell? Planning some changes after this first run?

  5. #445
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Nice! Congrats. You have the Midas touch with this deck. I was pretty seriously considering going in on Bomberman a few months ago, but in testing I couldn't get the matchups against Chalice decks to be favorable. How often do you run into a Chalice deck at the weeklies? And if you've been to some of the recent 1Ks, did you face more/fewer Chalice decks there?
    Hello ESG.

    I've run into fewer Chalice decks since WAR than I rightly should have, but in outside testing Chalice itself has not been a huge problem with 3x Karn and 3x Teferi, both which serve as main deck answers, plus the Intuitions to find either. 12-Post though remains a pretty solidly bad matchup. Moon Stompy isn't wonderful, but so far it feels nowhere near as bad as it used to, again thanks to the interaction.

    I have not been to any of the 1ks in quite a while, but they have me scheduled to teach a Monday-Night/Wednesday-Night evening astronomy course this fall so I feel like I'll inevitably have to start going to them again if I want to play much Legacy during that 3 month stretch.

    Most Recent Showing:

    Anyways, last night was a pretty mediocre 2-2 showing. 2-0'd two of the matches pretty quickly, but got turn-2 combo'd out of the game twice in a row vs Depths while being a turn too slow in game 2, and kept mediocre 6's against Grixis Control and flooded. A lot of those losses felt like 'variance out of my control', but I did identify two potential shortcomings in the construction that may have contributed, particularly board v. depths which is a good segway into ...

    Quote Originally Posted by spartan117 View Post
    List looks sweet, 'gratz on the result!
    Care to share your sideboard aswell? Planning some changes after this first run?
    So two changes; one definite sideboard change and one potential maindeck change.

    After some consideration, I believe my current sideboard should look something along the lines of:

    2x Tormod's Crypt
    1x Lion's Eye Diamond
    1x Mycosynth Lattice
    1x Walking Ballista
    1x Wurmcoil Engine
    1x Sorcerer's Spyglass
    1x Ensnaring Bridge
    2x Containment Priest
    1x Sanctum Prelate
    2x Oblivion Ring
    1x Negate
    1x Perilous Voyage < ----- This would be the new element

    The wish-board leaves the sideboard fairly weak to Depths, so the Perilous Voyage is an attempt to include a multi-purpose piece of interaction that has play in this matchup, and the Scry 2 seems to feel fairly potent in a deck of this nature.

    The other change I've been considering is switching out one Teferi for an Intuition, which is a fairly big deal so I want to give it some thought.

    Here's the thought process:

    The deck is a pile of Haymakers that synergize well but represent fairly different plans. The natural problem with Bomberman is often that the deck is filled with too much air, which has long been my incentive to try to reduce the Ballista and Bauble count to a minimum (yes, I realize that Ballista isn't 'air' in the same way baubles are, but its still doesn't represent the kind of threat as the others on its own merit). Intuition to just "pick a haymaker" has been great at simply increasing the effective threat density, especially when it can also grab a Teferi and, say, bounce a Trinisphere if it really comes to something like that. Having 3x Teferi just makes Intuition an even better card.

    The issue is, however, that Intuition is already a better card than Teferi in most matchups, so is it worth making Intuition a weaker card to play with one more copy of it? I think at the very least I want to play around with 3x Intuition, 2x Teferi, just to inch up the threat density one notch higher. I mean, I'd take out another Bauble but I want to keep the Mox Opal Metalcraft count up.

    If I make that change (3x Intuition 2x Teferi), I'd also want to run a quick hyper-geometric calc on the manabase to make sure I'm not supposed to turn one of the Ancient Dens into a Seat of the Synod. I don't think I'm supposed to in that scenario, but I can't do math like that at any reasonable speed in my head, and I think the simplified version of the calc I'd want to know is

    Looking at #1-hand out of #2-library what is the chance

    A) (1+) of [3] <representing Intuition> WITHOUT (1+) of [12] <representing 'no blue source'>

    vs

    B) (1+) of [7] <representing Auriok / Mentor> WITHOUT (1+) of [18] <representing 'no human white source', with the other 2 mono-colored lands remaining mono-white>

    Naively, I'd assume if B > A for the most relevant range of #1-hand and #2-library, the manabase is fine as is, if A > B for a relevant range of those numbers, I'd want to consider 1x Seat of the Synod.

  6. #446

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    hi
    I can't use English, so this is machine translation.

    In my community, many players use 4C Bomberman with Intuition.
    my current list:
    3 Walking Ballista
    3 Auriok Salvagers
    1 Sharuum the Hegemon
    1 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Sundering Titan

    4 Thirst for Knowledge
    3 Intuition
    2 Unburial Rites
    2 Cast Out
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Mox Opal
    1 Lodestone Bauble
    1 Talisman of Progress
    1 Talisman of Dominance
    1 Teferi, Time Raveler
    3 Karn, the Great Creator

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Spire of Industry
    3 Glimmervoid
    3 Seat of the Synod
    2 Cavern of Souls
    2 City of Traitors
    1 Ancient Den
    1 Inventors' Fair
    1 Vault of Whispers

    Sideboard
    1 Walking Ballista
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Wurmcoil Engine
    2 Abrupt Decay
    2 Rest in Peace
    1 Seal of Cleansing
    2 The Antiquities War
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Teferi, Time Raveler

    I have 2 Unburial Rites in addition to the combo.
    Sharuum has synergy with LED and Sundering Titan is effective for most legacy decks (especially Miracle!).
    Also, sometimes I want to bring 2 Unburial Rites by Intuition.

    Karn, the Great Creator:
    The deck was reinforced by Karn, the Great Creator.
    Mycosynth Lattice is a good example of this.
    You can cast this by activating two LEDs.(If they don't counter Karn, they don't have a counter.)
    If opponent control creature to beat Karn, we can cast Karn and Ensnaring Bridge with LED in the same turn.
    After the sideboarding, LEDs are often placed in the exile by Surgical Extraction.
    but it can be added to the hand by Karn.

    Teferi, Time Raveler
    This card is more useful than it looks.
    Opponent cannot cast in miracles or cascades.
    If these are not in your area, replace here with Karn or other card.

    Cast Out:
    WAR is not all that you get.
    Karn, the Great Creator played by opponent is a very threat.
    Unfortunately, this was the only card I could find that could handle a turn for a Karn.
    It is effective for Show and Tell that I dont like.
    If you want to use a different card for the same purpose, I recommend Goblin Cratermaker.

    RIP:
    Many people would question this.
    If I use this, throw away the graveyard plan.
    Because only Walking Ballista can win against the opponent who has to insert this card.

    Abrupt Decay:
    It's the only green, but without it I can't win Miracle.
    BtB can't be destroy without this.

    There's more I want to write, but it's going to be longer, so I'll finish here.
    Using Intuition seems difficult, but it's not.
    This card is easy to use because it has all the necessary parts for the combo.
    This Bomberman is also fun, so please try it.

    gl hf

  7. #447

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by crobee View Post
    hi
    I can't use English, so this is machine translation.

    In my community, many players use 4C Bomberman with Intuition.
    my current list:
    3 Walking Ballista
    3 Auriok Salvagers
    1 Sharuum the Hegemon
    1 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Sundering Titan

    4 Thirst for Knowledge
    3 Intuition
    2 Unburial Rites
    2 Cast Out
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Mox Opal
    1 Lodestone Bauble
    1 Talisman of Progress
    1 Talisman of Dominance
    1 Teferi, Time Raveler
    3 Karn, the Great Creator

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Spire of Industry
    3 Glimmervoid
    3 Seat of the Synod
    2 Cavern of Souls
    2 City of Traitors
    1 Ancient Den
    1 Inventors' Fair
    1 Vault of Whispers

    Sideboard
    1 Walking Ballista
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Wurmcoil Engine
    2 Abrupt Decay
    2 Rest in Peace
    1 Seal of Cleansing
    2 The Antiquities War
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Teferi, Time Raveler

    I have 2 Unburial Rites in addition to the combo.
    Sharuum has synergy with LED and Sundering Titan is effective for most legacy decks (especially Miracle!).
    Also, sometimes I want to bring 2 Unburial Rites by Intuition.

    Karn, the Great Creator:
    The deck was reinforced by Karn, the Great Creator.
    Mycosynth Lattice is a good example of this.
    You can cast this by activating two LEDs.(If they don't counter Karn, they don't have a counter.)
    If opponent control creature to beat Karn, we can cast Karn and Ensnaring Bridge with LED in the same turn.
    After the sideboarding, LEDs are often placed in the exile by Surgical Extraction.
    but it can be added to the hand by Karn.

    Teferi, Time Raveler
    This card is more useful than it looks.
    Opponent cannot cast in miracles or cascades.
    If these are not in your area, replace here with Karn or other card.

    Cast Out:
    WAR is not all that you get.
    Karn, the Great Creator played by opponent is a very threat.
    Unfortunately, this was the only card I could find that could handle a turn for a Karn.
    It is effective for Show and Tell that I dont like.
    If you want to use a different card for the same purpose, I recommend Goblin Cratermaker.

    RIP:
    Many people would question this.
    If I use this, throw away the graveyard plan.
    Because only Walking Ballista can win against the opponent who has to insert this card.

    Abrupt Decay:
    It's the only green, but without it I can't win Miracle.
    BtB can't be destroy without this.

    There's more I want to write, but it's going to be longer, so I'll finish here.
    Using Intuition seems difficult, but it's not.
    This card is easy to use because it has all the necessary parts for the combo.
    This Bomberman is also fun, so please try it.

    gl hf
    ^This

    The Japanese crew working on Bomberman are incredibly impressive in that they've freed themselves from what see as sacred cows - Mentor and the Bauble package. Once you cut Mentor, there's little need for the Baubles and you can focus on alternate ways of assembling the combo (ie. Intuition + Unburial Rites). Makes us a fair bit more graveyard dependant, but it's certainly a very exciting way to take the deck.

    The mana base is also crazy, but I've seen it look very fluid in reality and actually capitalises on the power of Glimmervoid/Spire of Industry in ways that Legacy hasn't typically seen.

    List looks crazy, but I trust a lot of their decisions and there's a lot of smart, experienced Bomberman players working on this Intuition-based list.

    (Also if you have LINE I can invite you to the secret Japanese Bomberman group hehe)
    Writing:

    Also podcast with Stevestamopz and Speedbump_NZ on The Salt Mine.

  8. #448
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    thanks for sharing!
    -rob

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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Yes, thank you very much for sharing crobee. I'm thrilled to see more people playing around Intuition in Bomberman builds, and to reply to what ChemicalBurns said, Japan probably deserves most of the credit for contemporary legacy Bomberman if we're interested in doling out credit. The whole reason we're here is because we decided to toy around with a Hareruya list that was popularized by Caleb D.

    One question about the list you shared though; what exactly does Talisman of Progress cast that Azorius Signet wouldn't? It cycles your 2x cast-out better if you don't also have a spell to cast, casts your 1x teferi worse, and you seem to be taking extra damage for this. In an incredibly narrow case where you cast your 1x sideboard ethersworn canonist on exactly two lands the other of which is one of of your 2x cavern of souls it casts it slightly better because it retains the uncounterability clause, but the three things I've outlined here seem to be the only apparent differences between what Talisman of Progress is doing for you, which doesn't feel like it's worth the damage.

    Just an immediate point of feedback / inquiry about optimizing the manabase of the list you shared. If you could share a justification for Talisman > Signet I'd be happy to hear it, as someone who is working on an Intuition Bomberman list with Signet currently any aspect I'm missing could be ... relevant education for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by crobee View Post
    Teferi, Time Raveler
    This card is more useful than it looks.
    I'm definitely with you there.

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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Huh; so I believe I may have been wrong on an assumption earlier about Seat of Synod / Ancient Den.

    If I move to 3 Mono-Blue cards and 7 Mono-White, with 19 colored sources, I think the 19th colored source wants to be blue.

    Simplified Hyper-geometric calculation

    Here were my assumptions

    58 Card Pool; 6 in hand.

    Calculations are Probability N > 0 in 6 for the first criteria and N = 0 in the remaining 5.

    Looking at the 19th colored source with 18 other white sources for creatures and 12 other blue sources for non-creatures

    [Human but no other white source](1 of 7) 0.555051249 x (NOT 1 of 18) (0.143603523) = 0.0797073148
    [Intuition but no other blue source](1 of 3) 0.283769769 x (NOT 1 of 12) (0.299153055) = =0.08489059331 [SLIGHTY MORE LIKELY]

    So it would seem that if the 19th colored source is in hand, it is slightly more likely that it needs to bear the burden of producing blue for a 3x Intuition than a 7x Creature.

    However, this is close enough that it really is just one Ancient Den. Shifting the colored sources by 1 results in

    [Human but no other white source](1 of 7) 0.555051249 x (NOT 1 of 17) (0.163548457) = 0.09077777533 [SLIGHTY MORE LIKELY]
    [Intuition but no other blue source](1 of 3) 0.283769769 x (NOT 1 of 13) (0.266636419) =0.07566335503

    Which means, based on previous notes, I think I'm going to be testing

    Creatures (8)

    4x Auriok Salvagers
    3x Monastery Mentor
    1x Walking Ballista

    Walkers (8)

    3x Karn, The Great Creator
    3x Karn, Scion of Urza
    2x Teferi, Time Raveler

    Artifacts (22)

    3x Lion's Eye Diamond
    3x Mox Opal
    1x Azorius Signet
    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x Urza's Bauble
    2x Mishra's Bauble
    1x Lodestone Bauble

    Spells (2)

    3x Intuition

    Lands (19)

    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Cavern of Souls
    4x Skycloud Expanse
    1x Synod Sanctum
    1x Ancient Den
    1x Plains

    Sideboard (15)

    2x Tormod's Crypt
    1x Lion's Eye Diamond
    1x Mycosynth Lattice
    1x Walking Ballista
    1x Wurmcoil Engine
    1x Sorcerer's Spyglass
    1x Ensnaring Bridge
    2x Containment Priest
    1x Sanctum Prelate
    2x Oblivion Ring
    1x Negate
    1x Perilous Voyage

    For the time being I'm still going to refer to this as "Intuition Bomberman" as a shorthand since UW as a color combination already has some history in this thread, but if crobee's Japanese Esper all-in graveyard combo list without Mentor or Scion of Urza become popular I think that title might be contested.

    Sideboard still probably needs a good amount of work, so any critiques of the board would be welcome.

  11. #451

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rationalist View Post
    Yes, thank you very much for sharing crobee. I'm thrilled to see more people playing around Intuition in Bomberman builds, and to reply to what ChemicalBurns said, Japan probably deserves most of the credit for contemporary legacy Bomberman if we're interested in doling out credit. The whole reason we're here is because we decided to toy around with a Hareruya list that was popularized by Caleb D.

    One question about the list you shared though; what exactly does Talisman of Progress cast that Azorius Signet wouldn't? It cycles your 2x cast-out better if you don't also have a spell to cast, casts your 1x teferi worse, and you seem to be taking extra damage for this. In an incredibly narrow case where you cast your 1x sideboard ethersworn canonist on exactly two lands the other of which is one of of your 2x cavern of souls it casts it slightly better because it retains the uncounterability clause, but the three things I've outlined here seem to be the only apparent differences between what Talisman of Progress is doing for you, which doesn't feel like it's worth the damage.

    Just an immediate point of feedback / inquiry about optimizing the manabase of the list you shared. If you could share a justification for Talisman > Signet I'd be happy to hear it, as someone who is working on an Intuition Bomberman list with Signet currently any aspect I'm missing could be ... relevant education for me.



    I'm definitely with you there.
    The use of Tarisman or Signet is often discussed.
    In my case, I use Talisman when I use Lodestone Bauble.
    Because it can be activated if Tomb (or Traitors) is destroyed on the 2 turn. (This is also narrow case,)
    But if I use Teferi, it's better to use UW Signet as you say.

    thx Rationalist

  12. #452
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Not a problem, crobee =)

    Anyways, so I played another feature match this Monday. I thought these were some pretty good games.

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/427671166?t=03h00m20s


    Current List:

    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Cavern of Souls
    4x Skycloud Expanse
    2x Ancient Den
    1x Seat of the Synod

    4x Lotus Petal
    3x Mox Diamond
    1x Azorius Signet
    3x Lion's Eye Diamond
    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x Urza's Bauble
    3x Mishra's Bauble

    4x Auriok Salvagers
    3x Monastery Mentor
    1x Walking Ballista

    3x Karn, Scion of Urza
    3x Karn, The Great Creator
    2x Teferi, Time Raveler

    3x Intuition

    -Sideboard-

    1x Mycosynth Lattice
    1x Wurmcoil Engine
    1x Ensnaring Bridge
    1x Sorcerer's Spyglass
    1x Lion's Eye Diamond
    1x Lodestone Bauble
    2x Tormod's Crypt
    1x In The Eye of Chaos
    2x Containment Priest
    2x Seal of Cleansing
    1x Oblivion Ring
    1x Perilous Voyage

    The only individual games I lost on Monday were to Jeremy Edwards on Eldrazi. Trinisphere + Quick Clock.

    I will edit in some comments in a little bit, but I promised someone on reddit I'd make this post last night so I just want to get the key portion of it up there, and I don't want to hog two-posts.

  13. #453
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Bomberman seems to be on the rise! What people think about the Ranger-Captain of Eos from Modern Horizon, could it see play in our deck? Also spotted a great Unofficial-strategy-guide by: Max Gilmore from reddit.

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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Avez View Post
    What people think about the Ranger-Captain of Eos from Modern Horizon, could it see play in our deck?
    I think if you're on a classic Mono-White list but want some protection that can also double as disruption in a combo race, he's a fine candidate. You have to commit to when you use him which is more of a drawback than it appears when it comes to protecting things like Planeswalkers, but his cost is minimal. This came up on reddit a couple days ago. I think one of the real things to keep in mind about him though is his ability to be on the other side of the table, given the resources you often have to commit to begin to combo. I think if he becomes prominent it might be more incentive to run alternative threat out of the board.

    Another topic from reddit of that same day; there was some disagreement about what the optimal monk token is. For my money, I believe the optimal monk token is the Aaron Miller 'Bodhi' Monk token, which I will justify as an Ainok from Tarkir. (Your mileage may vary)



    Particularly in the face of Plague Carrier potentially becoming a thing, making it immediately obvious that the tokens are not human I think could avoid a potentially unfortunate situation in organized play.

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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy



    Cards like this do not make me feel happy about my choice of Artifact Lands.

    They do however make me happier with Teferi, as I doubt this would be in a list with Aether Vial as well. The Maverick matchup just got harder though.

  16. #456

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    if that ouphe lands, is there no way to deal with it? it blanks ballistas, but not teferi. But it's a bit tight having to rely on a card that we're not likely to mise and isn't tutor-able.

    is it worth running something like a pyroclasm just to deal with stuff like this? or unexpectedly absent? swords?

    I've been thinking about building bomber man, but seeing all these main-deckable hate cards being printed, i'm a bit wary.
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  17. #457
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rationalist View Post


    Cards like this do not make me feel happy about my choice of Artifact Lands.

    They do however make me happier with Teferi, as I doubt this would be in a list with Aether Vial as well. The Maverick matchup just got harder though.
    however cards like this should help prevent people crying about bans :)
    -rob

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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    if that ouphe lands, is there no way to deal with it? it blanks ballistas, but not teferi. But it's a bit tight having to rely on a card that we're not likely to mise and isn't tutor-able.

    is it worth running something like a pyroclasm just to deal with stuff like this? or unexpectedly absent? swords?

    I've been thinking about building bomber man, but seeing all these main-deckable hate cards being printed, i'm a bit wary.
    Yes, after Modern Horizons hits you definitely want to be running something to deal with things like this. It's likely coming in exclusively in matchups that creature removal is good in and in which Chalice is mediocre, probably just post-board, so it doesn't seem overly hard to adapt to.

    Part of playing any deck in the Synergy to Combo range is coming to terms with the fact that hate exists; in Legacy that happens to also be true of playing 1-cost spells, playing islands, and using non-basic lands. Also I don't know how main-deckable he is as a card that is often actual Grizzly Bear.

  19. #459

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    if that ouphe lands, is there no way to deal with it? it blanks ballistas, but not teferi. But it's a bit tight having to rely on a card that we're not likely to mise and isn't tutor-able.

    is it worth running something like a pyroclasm just to deal with stuff like this? or unexpectedly absent? swords?

    I've been thinking about building bomber man, but seeing all these main-deckable hate cards being printed, i'm a bit wary.
    One of the advantages of running cast out over disenchanted etc is that it kills annoying crap like this.

    It's annoying mostly in that it gives GSZ decks an effective toolbox card against us; elves, maverick and 4c loam are the only real gsz decks I know of right now (sorry to the ten of you on sylvan plug); of those, I think maverick is the only one we really care about, since elves is hugely favorable and 4c loam is both a punishing fire AND a chance deck (bleagch). Maverick is also the only one that would feasibly main deck it; elves can't stomach the synergy loss main and 4c plays Diamonds. All that said, I think we just don't really care; everyone already had access to this effect at this cmc (null rod) and the creature type isn't relevant, so the only thing this adds is access through GSZ.

    I've gotten to get some testing in with both KGC and the intuition package. Karn's fucking bonkers, I have no idea why play design thought that was an ok thing to print. I can't imagine why anyone on any variant of Bomberman isn't playing at least three. Intuition is powerful, flexible and fun, especially with a fun-of unburial rites, and was everything I've ever wanted from any of the creature tutors and more - except not cavern-able. Fortunately, people have the whole lotus-petal mentality going on with it and tend to not counter thinking they'll counter the tutor target even when you have cavern out, so that's cool. Both make LEDs suck much less outside the combo, which is also cool.

  20. #460

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Just posted this over on reddit, but will also post here for posterity:

    CFB 3k Tourney Report - 15th with Mono W Bomberman

    Hey all,

    It's been a hot minute since I've written a tournament report (or even done well enough in a large field to write something), so hopefully I can do a decent enough job. This is all from memory, I didn't take any notes because I didn't expect to go too far.

    Event: CFB 3k on June 2, 2019
    Total players: 90+ (I forget the exact number), enough to make it a ~3.9k

    I had myself 95% convinced to take a version of Eldrazi Post I have been tinkering with, and I only settled on a list around 11 pm the night before. But once I got to the venue some of the other CFB locals convinced me otherwise. I ended up playing 74 of 75 of Max Gilmore's (u/Maxtortion) of Mono W Bomberman posted on the mixmaxblog. I thought about running 3 Dens and 2 Plains, but ultimately decided I'd just hope to dodge opposing Null Rod effects. The only change I made was a second Bridge in the board over Spyglass. The last time I played this deck was right after the printing of Karn, Scion of Urza, so all I had to go off of was some goldfishing I'd done with MTGForge.
    I set a goal for myself before starting—get at least one kill of each way with the deck today, that being:

    - Mentor beatdown
    - Salvagers + Mentor
    - Salvagers + Ballista
    - Karn + Lattice
    - Karnstruct beatdown

    (sad this version doesn't play Lodestone Bauble ;) )

    Anyway, let's dive into the games.

    R1 v. Aaron on 4c Loam

    G1: On the Draw.
    I keep a 7 with T1 Chalice and T2 Mentor. He plays some fetch and passes, I drop Chalice and next turn he drops Bob. Instead of making Mentor I opt to Ballista for 1 and kill the Bob. He follows up with second Bob. I drop Mentor and spew two tokens. He offers a trade with an attack from Bob, which I decline and then drops second Bob and Wastelands my Sol-Land. I play a Bauble and swing with the team, no blocks. His Bobs keep revealing more lands, including Wasteland. He's at 9 so one spell is lethal if he attacks so he opts to pass and just Wastes my last land. I don't draw second spell (I think a land), but I have lethal over this turn and next if I drop a Chalice for 0 and he either double blocks Mentor or blocks two tokens + removal/creature.

    G2: On the Draw. I bring in two Disenchants.
    I think I keep a 7 with a few lands/cheerios plus the full combo. He opens with Land + Mox Diamond into Bob. I play land + cheerio and pass. He Wastelands my land, attacks, and I crack the Bauble. The next few turns play out the same with him drawing (I cannot remember if he Loamed this game?) three wastelands and beating down with two Bobs. He gets me to 4 (I was DOB), has Mox + Scrubland and opts to cast Scooze, I proceed to cast a Petal, go to two off the Tomb, and combo off with extra mana to fight through Surgical. One of his Bobs revealed a PFire earlier, so I think a combination of nerves, not paying attention to my life total, and not really knowing what my deck did made me get off lucky.

    Result: 1-0 (I'm a Phantom Tiger) (2-0 in games)

    Kill list:
    - ☑️ Mentor beatdown
    - Salvagers + Mentor
    - ☑️ Salvagers + Ballista
    - Karn + Lattice
    - Karnstruct beatdown

    R2 v. Joaquin on Pox
    Joaquin was super friendly and apologized in advance saying that he's just coming back into the game. I knew he was on Pox because I happen to watch part of his R1 game.

    G1: On the Draw
    I keep a 7 with Salvagers, double KGC, Pants Karn, lands and Bauble. He opens with IoK and takes a Bauble. I drop land and Bauble, and proceed to get Hymned (it takes land + Pants Karn). The game gets to a state where he's hellbent with Cursed Scroll and The Rack in play. I drop KGC and wish for something (I don't quite remember, I have mana for Lattice next turn so I didn't want it to get stripped). He plays something into a Chalice I'd dropped a few turns prior, then I lock him out. He continues for a few turns before he realizes that he can't do anything and is going to die to Animated Lattice beatdowns.

    G2: On the Draw. I think I bring in some combo of Disenchants/Cast Out.
    I keep a hand with Mentor, baubles, Chalice, and some lands. I don't remember the sequence of this game, but he may have dropped Cursed Scroll or the Rack T1. I drop Mentor and spew some tokens. He drops his second land, but I don't remember his game action, since he got stuck on two lands and died to a Chalice on 2 and an a Monk army.

    Result: 2-0 (I'm a Zombie Mob) (4-0 in games)

    Kill list:
    - ☑️ Mentor beatdown
    - Salvagers + Mentor
    - ☑️ Salvagers + Ballista
    - ☑️ Karn + Lattice
    - Karnstruct beatdown

    R3 v. The Storm Man Himself, Cyrus Corman-Gill
    I've never played Cyrus before, but have made brief small talk with him at these before the player's meeting. I will say he was the most polite opponent I played today, and was very pleasant to chat to about MtG and other stuff before and after the match.

    G1: On the Play
    I mull to 6 and get a hand with some combo of Salvagers, Baubles, Sol Lands, and something else. I scry KGC to the top. Sol land, baubles, and pass. He plays Trop and Ponders. I crack the baubles to get some cards and proceed to make T2 Karn, wish for Tormod's Crypt and pass. He Brainstorms into three lotus petals and concedes.

    G2: On the Draw.
    Per Matt's suggestion in his SB guide, I bring in Ballista and Crypt, take out two Pants Karn. Full disclosure: I lucksacked this game. I mull 7 and 6s that just hand lands/babules/Salvagers get a 5 with double Chalice, Mentor, Salvagers, and Lotus Petal. I risk it and get a 4 with Double Karakas, Mentor, and Salvagers. He proceeds to drop Bayou, Petal, three LEDs, use Petal to Ponder, cracking LEDs to make BRU, discarding Cabal Ritual. He wiffs. I'm able to make T2 Mentor, which takes me all the way.

    Result: 3-0 (I'm a Branchsnap Lorian with E.Plague naming Beast) (6-0 in games)

    R4 v. Max C. on Storm (ANT ft. Burning Wish)
    I know Max plays some Storm variant because he plays locally. I asked after the match about his build and he said it was "hybrid-ish".

    G1: On the Draw.
    I keep a one lander with two baubles, Chalice, Mentor, Karn, and something else. He has a slow hand and I stick a Chalice, but by the time I find mana to make Mentor three turns later I am dead.

    G2: On the Play.
    Sideboarded the same was as the previous round. But I don't remember this game at all. I think I mulled to 5 or 6 and died T2.

    Result: (3-1) (I'm a Kjeldoran Dead) (6-2 in games)

    R5 v. David on Stoneblade

    G1: On the Play
    I keep a 7 with Salvagers, KGC, some other goodies, and the means to cast them all. I play Cavern and name Human which gets me a confused look. He Island -> Ponders. I play Karn which resolves and fetch Ballista. He taps out for SFM, I proceed to make an uncounterable Salvagers and kill him.

    G2: On the Draw
    I side out two petals and an Opal, bring in Disenchants and Cast Out. I keep a one lander with baubles, and a fistful of business (Mentor/Chalice/Karn). I draw my second land too late, and run a Disenchant into a Force I new was there trying to kill a lethal Batterskull + Jitte.

    G3: On the Play
    Reverse of G2. He gets stuck on one land after pondering two (three?) times and I Lattice lock him T3/4.

    Result: 4-1 (I'm a Kami of Lunacy) (8-3 in games)

    At this point, I'm in 12th(?) and doing way better than I expected, possibly live for Top 8 if I win this next round. I kind of just would like to dodge another Karn deck...

    R6 v. Michael M. on Planeswalker Post
    Well, I had seen Michael playing earlier. I had to jinx myself. We both had a good laugh about how we didn't expect to be doing so well.

    G1: On the Draw.
    This is a game where I lost literally because of the die roll. I keep a T2 KGC into T3 Salvagers kill. He T1 goes Tomb -> Monolith, T2 Baby Ugin which keeps me off being able to wish for both Ballista and LED. T3 he drops his own KGC and I can't get out from under the Spirit army.

    G2: On the Play.
    Side out 4 Chalices for Disenchants, Swords, and Cast out. I mull to 5 with Sol-Lands and Baubles. I play land, baubles, and Lotus petal and pass the turn. He proceeds to go Tomb -> Monolith -> Key -> Dynamo -> Chalice on 0. I draw a bauble and Salvagers, make Salvagers, and proceed to die to Big Ugin. KGC would have shut him out of that game.

    Not going to lie, losing like that made me a tad tilted, but it was no fault of mine or my opponent's, just the opposite end of variance I experienced in round 3. I wished him luck as I would have liked to see a fellow Post player in the Top 8.

    Result: 4-2 (I'm a Soldevi Steam Beast) (8-5 in games)

    R7 v. Victorious C. on Elves!
    Victorious plays locally, and he loves his Elves, so I know what he's on. We're both playing for Top 16 at this point.

    G1: I think I was on the draw.
    I keep a 7 that's light on lands, but has Chalice and some other Mentor and Salvagers business. He makes T1 Symbiote and I Chalice. I eventually make Mentor and Salvagers off some combination of two lands, a City of Traitors that went to the yard, and Lotus Petal. In the meanwhile he's been bouncing Visionaries drawing a million cards, but he could never find any business. I re-buy the Petal one turn, and next turn rip a Mox Opal to cast KGC and make a Graham's number of monks.

    G2: On the Draw.
    I bring in two Containment Priests, debated on a Bridge but elected not too. I think I just need to be faster in this MU. I keep a 5 or 6 with T2 Mentor and a mess of cheerios. The game gets to a point where he has three creatures and I peeked a Natural Order via Bauble. I make a second Mentor and have 6 or 7 tokens and pass hoping he doesn't have much more to kill me. He kills me and kills me good.
    G3: On the Play.
    I keep a 6 with Pants Karn, Salvagers, double Chalice, and lands. I play T1 Chalice and he plays a Cavern to force through a Llanowar Elf. I play a backup Chalice, he plays another 1 mana elf and passes. I play Karn and go to the tank until ultimately deciding to make a token. Either EOT here or the next turn he Ass Trophies one of my Chalices, but I just re-buy and remake with the Salvagers. He can't draw anything else to deal with both Chalices and dies to Karnstruct and Salvager beatdowns.

    Result: 5-2 (I'm a Fickle Efreet) (10-6 in games)

    Final Kill List:
    - ☑️ Mentor beatdown
    - ☑️ Salvagers + Mentor
    - ☑️ Salvagers + Ballista
    - ☑️ Karn + Lattice
    - ☑️ Karnstruct beatdown

    5-2 is good enough for 15th and double my buy in, plus I hit my personal goal of killing with every way possible. All in all a good day. Deck felt great, especially with the new Karn, but I think I need to learn how to evaluate 1-landers better... :# I did dodge the plethora of D&T that was in the room today, probably for the better since I've played that MU exactly zero times.

    Hope you all enjoyed my writeup, let me know if you have any questions!

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