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Thread: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

  1. #61

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Caleb D plays Wb!

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/xB3En1-OHEY

    Bob looking pretty dope here!

  2. #62

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns View Post
    Caleb D plays Wb!

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/xB3En1-OHEY

    Bob looking pretty dope here!
    I was the "viewer" he references in the beginning of the video that suggested he play the bob version

  3. #63

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Anyone tried a As Foretold Bomberman?

    Easily to counter than Bob version, harder to remove. Can be faster, but need more pieces

  4. #64

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by procobrito View Post
    Anyone tried a As Foretold Bomberman?

    Easily to counter than Bob version, harder to remove. Can be faster, but need more pieces
    You might want to shoot up a list; this seems interesting, but a bit tangential to what these current lists are looking to do. Could be neat tho, As Foretold/AV is an interesting draw engine for Stompy decks nonetheless.

  5. #65

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns View Post
    You might want to shoot up a list; this seems interesting, but a bit tangential to what these current lists are looking to do. Could be neat tho, As Foretold/AV is an interesting draw engine for Stompy decks nonetheless.
    I've been tinkering with an Oath of Scholars list that's been pretty tight. Stack the delayed draw triggers ATBOYU, draw three cards, draw card(s) off the Baubles and then for turn. Pretty gross and doesn't require bottlenecking the deck with added chaff.

    It also plays Gustha's Scepter - which has been shockingly good with LED.

    I'll post it up later.

  6. #66

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns View Post
    You might want to shoot up a list; this seems interesting, but a bit tangential to what these current lists are looking to do. Could be neat tho, As Foretold/AV is an interesting draw engine for Stompy decks nonetheless.
    Not only the draw, but the ramp with lotus bloom. Unfortunately, we can't do the loop with lotus bloom.
    Restore the balance can be useful and blue have good defensive cards

  7. #67

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by procobrito View Post
    Not only the draw, but the ramp with lotus bloom. Unfortunately, we can't do the loop with lotus bloom.
    Restore the balance can be useful and blue have good defensive cards
    AF is solid, the problem is that the card requires a lot of pseudo-clunky other cards to truly maximize its brokenness. If the deck is already facilitating zero-drops, is it worth relegating 8-12 slots for? Granted, you can fire it off quickly, but you need to weigh its value when architecting a deck.

  8. #68

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    [QUOTE=Michael Keller;1016472]AF is solid, the problem is that the card requires a lot of pseudo-clunky other cards to truly maximize its brokenness. If the deck is already facilitating zero-drops, is it worth relegating 8-12 slots for? Granted, you can fire it off quickly, but you need to weigh its value when architecting a deck.[/QUOTEhello

    Hello Michael, I followed a lot of your work and results with some decks (manaless dredge, u/r delver and dephs in mystical games). Iam Ansious too see your job with bomberman !

  9. #69

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    I'm tinkering with the lists; I'll refine and post when I can.

  10. #70

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Tanaka Mikito wrote how he build the uw bomberman in KMC website. Unfurtunetly he wrote in Japanese !! It's in the following link http://mtgkmc.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-500.html

    Can someone translate it ?


    He has already tested the bob version ! And going to test a
    Monowhote verison in the following KMC events !

  11. #71
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    I've put in a translation from Google translate here. A lot of sentences don't make sence, I think I'll pause my effort for now. Please do message, or post, about your interpretations of some strange sentences. I've added a couple here at the start for those who like a puzzle. :)

    ...
    Maiden Mage
    > This refers to some creature, probably with toughness 1. Or it could be Meddling Mage.

    This ability is extremely useful, and even with the board surface where manafrads after the midfield, where combos are not complete, together with Salvager's body can occur, you can turn that mana into an advantage, so it is strong in long-term warfare.

    Also, I may be unable to write that the echoes are thin, so I am waiting for a comment.

    If there is a problem on the scale, the next one will be in playing relationship. I will summarize it if it is summarized next time.

    It is a bit painful as I am using it now because the solo music that played an important part in a ban was forbidden.
    (Since the library shuffle can be almost arbitrarily arbitrarily used by "instinct of instinct", the value of use of the solo piece is very high)

    > Is this referring to Sensei's Divining Top?

    Somehow, I thought that I could not build a deck with a single Salvager, wisdom guild, "Mana cost as seen by score: 1 or less" "Card type: Artifact" "Construction range: Legacy" "Prohibition / Restriction: Exclude "and continue to search the days.

    Pitch cemetery pair "surgical removal" also begins to use width, and there are lots of high-speed and high-stability combo decks in the first place than Monkey Bear combo. . .

    Mana cost seen by points: 0 or less" "Card type: Artifact" "Construction range: Legacy" "Prohibition / restriction: Excluding prohibited cards"
    The first thing I saw was the "chimaeric hordes" and "ovine incubator".

    Anyway, the soap which is contained in a large amount from the main is painful (at the time Miracle the heyday). There is almost no way to deal with being eliminated at the timing when the hand is missing with the LED.
    Pitch cemetery pair "surgical removal" also begins to use width, and there are lots of high-speed and high-stability combo decks in the first place than Monkey Bear combo. .


    Monkey bell combo
    > I assume this is a literal translation from Japanese equivalent to Bomberman combo, I think we can leave it for some extra Japanese touch.


    ...

    Monkey bell combo in legacy

    By Atelier

    This entry explains latest Salvagers Combo Deck that I create.
    The list adopt Chalice of the Void and Walking Ballista and more.
    I wrote a sentence in English because I want people from all over the world to read it.
    I expect translation by volunteers.

    Hello nice to meet. It is Atelier of the godfather Ama's. English at the beginning is an advertisement for foreign countries and a pale expectation (laugh)

    Dear Mr. KMC, who is always indebted to us,

    "Would you like to write an article in a minute? (Always take care of yourself Gola? Do you think you became famous at our tournament?

    Because it was said, thankfully I will write a commentary on the deck.
    (Kansai people talk quickly for laughter)


    This time, it will be a commentary about the monkey jar combo that is part of the topic as a result of being picked up in various media after having used it for the competition of this KMC and won the second prize.

    Although it is a minor deck, it is a deck that makes funny movements (it does not understand well).
    Recently I am interested and it is as long as I am thankful for those who actually use and using it.
    I think that it would be good to increase such people, I will do my best to write it.

    However, in fact,

    "Oh! I saw the article! You can win if you do this, right?"
    There are many people who go backfire, but that is it (laugh)

    First of all, let's put a list on each article that will be the most famous.

    Articles that took up this list
    Mr. MTGGOLDFISH
    The reporter of this article, Sean Brown seems to have liked this deck, and the person himself also uses it while making various adjustments.
    I want to take contact once.

    A sunny day, like you
    Weekly deck watching vol.114.
    Earlier I had another Monkey Bay Jacket taken up, but I was allowed to appear for the second time. (Previous minutes are described below)

    THE SOURCE
    According to Mr. ChemicalBurns, a thread based on this list was launched as New and Developmental Decks, Chalice Bomberman / Bomberman Stompy.
    Discussions on various cards and lists have been made, and many participation results etc. of the convention are reported.

    CHANNEL FIREBALL MESSAGE
    It is a simple commentary and a matchup video posted by Caleb Durward. Finally up to the channel.
    Even so, he says he is building the latest version of Bob type he is about to explain in the next article.
    that? Did you write less? · · · I'm not at peace! I already used it at some events! Is it?

    ※ The order of the description is in the order of the publication date as far as I know, and I make it clear that there is no other.



    <List description>

    Salvager combo is a method of recovering Lion's Eye Diamond (hereinafter referred to as "LEDs") from the graveyard by Auriok Salvager (hereinafter referred to as Salvager), incrementing by 1 mana at a time, infinite After winning the mana, I will refer to a combo that sticks with a "suitable card".

    The innovative part of this list is that it adopts the Chalice of the Void (hereinafter referred to as "Chalice"), which greatly increased the deck power and combo success rate.
    Indeed, it is a big breakthrough to put a chalice in this monkey jar combo, it is no exaggeration to say that it is no longer a paradigm shift.
    Until then, it turned out to be the best partner from the former paradigm "Chalice is the enemy" (recognize it as recognition, thinking, common sense), it became the best buddy, it is not limited to the result of this one tournament, It is just a paradigm shift as you are considering examining at.

    Chalice X = 0 is still an enemy as usual. Really, fucking (laugh).

    (Oh yeah, I decided to make a paradigm shift on deck name, I have not been able to decide so far.What is my birth parent, can I name it? The problem is that there is a card with the same name ...)

    (I wonder if this card can do something wrong ...) [Edit: Paradigm Shift]

    Also, the ability to reuse artifacts from the cemetery is a great advantage in environments where the current legacy is highly dependent on countermeasures and cemetery control by death rituals.
    At the counter, it is impossible to stop cards that can be cast from the cemetery many times, and as a measure against the deck using the cemetery, the death ritual that is causing the reduction of the number of measures for the cemetery from the sideboard is also , It is helpless against artifacts.
    We also believe that such factors have led to considerable attention in the spotlight.

    Well, it is a deck of Bombermann 's alias, since Pyrite Spellbomb was used in "the suitable card" of the past year.

    * Correctly, the variant of Salvager combo becomes Bomberman.
    Notice that the number of necessary combo parts of the monkey jar combo is small (since there are no effective cards to substitute for, it is small (crying)), search cards in the direction to establish a combo for vacant frames Bomberman is a deck that shifts to control rather than counters and other obstacles.
    In Japan, Bomberman is very famous for its name itself (bata throat), but it tends to be equated, but for the time being, we are aware that it is a deck that originally has a different direction.


    Well, the story deviated slightly sideways, let's talk about "suitable card" = "finisher".

    <Selection criteria of finisher>
    The criteria for selection of the finisher in Salvager combo can not simply use infinite mana, but it is actually diverse. Let me explain one by one.

    (1): Although you can use infinite mana, the greatest merit of the monkey jar combo is the occurrence of infinite mana, so it is better to use it.

    (2): Since it is possible to infinitely repeat a series of actions of recovering, casting, and activating LEDs that can take advantage of cast induction of artifacts in hands, cards that operate with casting artifacts are also candidates for finishers .
    It may be stormy or bold, it is classified here.

    (3): The artifact can use triggering on the battlefield as above, this time it uses the triggering when you go into the battlefield. Although it is somewhat different, the type that utilizes artifacts on the battlefield is also included here in substance.

    (4): Because of the nature that the hand is lost with the LED which is a tenon, the finisher must be placed in the battlefield beforehand or prepared by another means.
    So, the first thing that attracts attention is the ability of Salvager.
    It is the quickest because you can collect artifacts of less than 1 mana, in short, tenons from your graveyard to your hand.
    The tenons that can survive themselves satisfy the condition of (1) at the same time.

    (5): Casting from the Graveyard If you could originally be played from the graveyard, keep it or leave it in the graveyard in advance.
    Flashback and aftermath correspond to this.
    Of course, it is not necessary to satisfy all of these, but by satisfying many, the ease of combo alignment improves.
    Also, the deck called Salvager Combo is not a type of deck to offer everything to decide a combo's one-pass, but a deck that fights with the overall strength of the whole.
    So, because we meet a lot of criteria, a weak card by itself is not very favorable.
    Based on that, I will write a detailed comment on the finisher that I am adopting.



    · Walking Ballista

    The latest and most powerful creature in the finisher world of Salvager who descended at Kaladesh.
    It is an inconvenient, convenient and strong finisher that made all past finishers in the past.
    The selection criteria are (1) and (4).

    Let's improve the compatibility of Ballista and Salvager.

    As a condition of Salvager's finisher which is a tenon of 1: 0 mana, being a tenon is one of the big conditions.
    And ballista keeps the role of the finisher even if you drop it to the graveyard beforehand because it is variable mana cost (X) (X) while mana cost seen by points is 0 mana, + 1 counter and player and creature You can defeat the player directly by the ability to be able to convert to 1 point damage to.

    2: Because it is a colorless artifact which is colorless, you can receive the benefits of 2 Manaland greatly.
    Because Salvager itself costs (3) (white), 2 Manaland is absolutely necessary to use, it is compatible, even if you use touch color as a list, it does not get in the way.

    3: The ability to convert the +1 counter that can be used as a creature removal to 1 damage to a single point damage with no cost will be the finisher of the monkey baker combo, but this ability can be actively used from the early stage.
    To Delver before turning over, Thalia and Phyrexian Revoker, toughness such as Young Pyromancer, Vendillion Clique and "Maiden Mage" 1 [Edit: Meddling Mage?], to counter troubles with multiple counters for multiple creatures, etc. (I have used the ballista cast at X = 1 in the official game and have dropped "tomb shinobi" without infinite mana) ).

    4: Pay mana, Pump up possible
    You can put a +1 counter by paying (4).
    This ability is extremely useful, and even with the board surface where manafrads after the midfield, where combos are not complete, together with Salvager's body can occur, you can turn that mana into an advantage, so it is strong in long-term warfare.
    Also, in the face of the opponent's cemetery limited to creatures (especially death ceremony [edit: Deathrite?]), cast it with X = 1 before, generate infinite mana, pump up with this ability, turn it into firepower It is also a very effective means to avoid cemetery pairs, so remember, there is no loss.


    Due to the nature of the cards, put it on the opening early, set creatures with hatebears and clocks at hand in the ability, stay in the graveyard, give it out with a slightly larger X designation in the middle and become a useful clock, the final stage will appear in finisher size, It appears as the last part of the combo as it is, hand over the guidance.

    I think there is no gap in the beginning, the middle stage, the final stage.



    · Monastery Mentor

    The MtG world's strongest monk appeared in fate reforged.
    Hold bold and bald.
    As a standard, it falls under (2).

    With the mentor in the battlefield, when the monkey jar combo is decided, infinite tokens, infinite bumps will be triggered by the cast LED.
    Afterwards, if you have a monk without summoning sickness, you can hit as it is, game set, if you all are summoning sick you can not help it. In the next turn countless monks will inflict your opponent.

    Because mentor only satisfies Selection Criterion (2) only with compatibility of Salvager Combo, advance preparations are necessary and it can not be said that it is that good.
    However, there is card power that is too much to compensate for it.
    It is important that you also have bold tokens that come out as bald and even one keyword that is bold can be a finisher of Salvager Combo so even if the main body is removed, the remaining tokens There are many scenes that inflict pumps to defeat opponents.

    Also, because you do not need mana as a combo finisher, it is possible to go infinite by ignoring one increase in cost caused by Thalia or Thorn of Amethysts.

    Other than that, we often decide not to decide combo simply by this alone,

    1st turn: tomb tomb + from mental to mental to bauble, bauble, Opal
    2nd turn: additional extra draw, additional draw, draw. LED, Chalice X = 1 with bold 2 points 13 points
    3rd turn: 7 barely 20 points without bravery.

    How it happens. The starting point is only a bald.

    Turn 1: Tomb Chalice X = 1
    2nd turn: Mentor from the cave of the soul

    Is fatal to most decks except Combo.


    In the final stage, when combined with Salvager, as long as there is mana, as long as it can tolerate token generation, the game may end at the next turn as soon as it is issued.
    Especially when there are two petals or two Opals, it is extremely efficient as it can tolerate token generation with 1 mana.

    List of manacosts required for bold and token generation with Salvager + major artifact

    -1: LED
    1: Lotus petal, Mox Opal (2 in total in battlefield, cemetery, or hand, only if you have achieved metal surgery)
    2: Urza's Bauble, Mishra's Bauble, Tormod's Crypt
    3: Lodestone Bauble
    5: Engineered Explosives (It is necessary to cast with X = 1 so as not to flush the token)


    Also, let's remember the damage calculation, which is called Mentor calculation if possible.
    Normally it is a technique required only with vintage, but this deck requires its calculations as quickly as possible.
    Especially vs. combo. There is a high possibility that Kirutan will change when playing sloppy. An irregular draw called Bauble is improving the calculation difficulty, but let's do our best.



    Lodestone Bauble

    Originally, the finisher of this list that was originally created in this world. At last the human beings (or perverted as Ateliel ), Chalice + Salvager + LED + Lodestone, caught up with this combination.
    In the end, Salvager was born in the end, but it was 2004. It was a combination that was not amusing even if it was completed 13 years ago.

    Ballista, mentor, followed by the third arrow.
    The selection criteria are (1) and (4).
    Ability is as follows.

    "(1), (T), Sacrifice Lodestone Bauble: Put up to 4 basic land cards in a player's graveyard and put them on top of that player's library in the order you want. That player draws a card at the beginning of the upkeep of the next turn."
    The difference with other bauble is that you can draw directly to the opponent instead of one mana.
    This route is not affected by players' impossibility such as "sacred power lines" [Edit: Leyline of Sanctity?], and will not accept attack restrictions on the basis of Ensnaring Bridge as a representative.

    Also, considering the roles other than as a finisher, it is a draw source that can be used in a charismatic environment, a mentor's boldish seed, and when a combo is not established where there is a Salvager, it can be used repeatedly.

    In a single unit, it may seem subtle because it is weak, but its role as a lubricant to supplement it is very powerful.


    That's it for the finisher.
    Let's pick up another one and explain it.



    Cavern of Souls

    Even if a finisher gets back from the graveyard, it is meaningless if Salvager is canceled in the first place.
    Basically, it is the strength of the counter that you can only deal with the counter at the counter, but if it is, it will not be canceled in the first place.
    Cavern of Souls makes it the easiest and sure to do it.
    In order to designate humans, its benefits can be received not only by Salvager but also by mentors and Trinket Mages, part of the side hatebear.
    Especially the side hate bear is important, Petal and Opal also join, if enough other than white mana can be suppressed to a single symbol, casting is enough.



    This is the end of the 1st round.
    Even if you skip ahead from here, there is nothing wrong with you, it will be a step of yourself and the monkey jar combo.
    Next time I'd like to summarize the variations of the list and the cards under consideration.
    If there is a problem on the scale, the next one will be in playing relationship. I will summarize it if it is summarized next time.
    I hope it will be short for the next time or later (lol)
    Also, I may be unable to write that the echoes are thin, so I am waiting for a comment.



    << Meeting with Salvager >>

    About two and a half years ago.
    It is the list that I used for the first time a monkey jar combo. I was able to win a prize and it was picked up by a sunny evening shop, so the list was firmly left.

    At the time, in order to go with a single Salvager, we are hybridizing Painter Combo, because all of combo ease of arrangement, speed, coping with difficulty was not enough.
    It is a construction that tried to cover the area by setting up a large number of instant death.
    This is not bad, it is not bad, the inherent gimmick is a rundown list, personally I like it.

    <Gimmick that is difficult to understand>
    · Salvager + LED + Engineered Explosives + Grindstone = infinite library out. If you start it you can go to find other spell bomb and other parts

    · Salvager + LED + Engineered Explosives + spin-off [Edit: Sensei's Divining Top?] = infinite draw

    Such.

    It is a bit painful as I am using it now because the solo music [Edit: I think this may refer to Sensei's Divining Top] that played an important part in a ban was forbidden.
    (Since the library shuffle can be almost arbitrarily arbitrarily used by "instinct of instinct", the value of use of the solo piece is very high)


    Even with this list, I was working fine, such as 16th in the eternal party, but I always felt that I wanted another breakthrough.




    <Aiming at the deck of Monkey Bay jury only>

    Somehow, I thought that I could not build a deck with a single Salvager, wisdom guild, "Mana cost as seen by score: 1 or less" "Card type: Artifact" "Construction range: Legacy" "Prohibition / Restriction: Exclude "and continue to search the days.

    Anyway, the soap which is contained in a large amount from the main is painful (at the time Miracle the heyday). There is almost no way to deal with being eliminated at the timing when the hand is missing with the LED.
    Pitch cemetery pair "surgical removal" also begins to use width, and there are lots of high-speed and high-stability combo decks in the first place than Monkey Bear combo. . .

    Something. What? . . .

    So I caught my eye for the Chalice of the Void.

    "(I always get infatuated with X = 0, but .... that, if you set it with X = 1, are not the above problems mostly resolved?)


    It was the moment light came in.



    (*: It is an image image) [edit: I believe Gleam of Battle was added for illustrative purposes]

    Fine hope that was born by not turning his eyes away from an unpleasant reality (Chalice X = 0).
    In this way the next action changes like this.
    "Mana cost seen by points: 0 or less" "Card type: Artifact" "Construction range: Legacy" "Prohibition / restriction: Excluding prohibited cards"

    The first thing I saw was the "chimaeric hordes" and "ovine incubator". [Edit: maybe he refers to Chimeric Mass or Chimeric Coils]

    However, because of its characteristics, Monkey Bayer Combo has infinite mana only at sorcery timing, so the above 2 pieces will receive the influence of summon sickness perfectly.
    In addition, although Chimaera barely functions even on a single unit, the serpent is truly severe. Furthermore, as a fatal defect, "never falls into a graveyard" on its own and "never become an outlet for infinite mana in a battlefield".
    This will not be decided well.

    I do not like it conveniently ....

    At that moment when it was being swallowed by deep despair the dazzling flash pierced through the body of an adult with no idea ...

    Bauble: Awake me ... (ry)

    That's so illegal. Although it is a slow trip, infinite draw is possible.
    If it is premised that it can be drawn into the hand, the above two types will function sufficiently as a finisher!


    However, actually it turned out to be a shape determined from the top of the charism if it goes well, but it takes 1 turn with a slow trip, 1 turn by summoning sickness, so put out infinite mana with Salvager combo It is a fatal slow to take two turns from, and it did not take shape because too many cards were needed.

    Atelier "If you do not rely on a bauble, increase the amount of chimaera obediently, and even put a trinket mage further, you can manage it somehow ...?"

    L "Hey"

    Atelier "Yeah?"

    L "Can not you do it with me?"

    Atelier "Oh, Oh, 0 In the rest of the mana galacta series, Alliances that produced the famous Force of Will, Lodestone Bauble forbidden to rerecord recorded as a rare card of rareness over that Will? , Baseline topography can not be broken so much, if it is supposed to start with 0 subjects, it will not cost you 1 mana to start up costs, and use Urza or Mishra with attached effects "




    Lodestone "But, can I choose a partner?"

    Ateliel "Well, if it works , it may well be able to decay the draw of several turns, but it's legacy and there is almost nothing like that in such a scene."

    Lodestone 'No, I want you to look closely at the drawing'

    Atelier "What?" That player draws a card at the beginning of the upkeep of the next turn ... ... that player?

    Lodestone "Yeah"

    Ateliel "If you start as 0 in your graveyard, what about the draw?"

    Lodestone "myself"

    Ateliel "If you start as 0 in your opponent's graveyard, what about the draw?"

    Lodestone "opponent"

    Atelier "Do you repeat indefinitely?"

    Lodestone "Win in library out"

    Atelier "a fb f f じ ぁ gf ふ ぁ g fa fu fa fa fa fa f f"


    Well, well, like this, if you speak from the card, it is easy to think about and to think and build (laugh)

    That's why it was the moment when Charisma berger became a form.

    However, at this stage, the second plan was not established and it was still difficult to go with this one, so it was not possible to get results with the competition and so on.


    <Time of restructuring>

    Since then it lacks a deciding factor, the day we will continue to stare with the Wisdom Guild will continue.
    One day, the rotation in standards was done, and Fate Reforged fell to the stan.
    By the way, what kind of card was there?
    Is it? Is it? Is it? Searching? Is it? Is it? Searching? Is it? Is it? Searching? Is it? Is it?

    Bingo!?

    So I am a mentor and a monaster.
    I know about active in vintage, sometimes even in legacy sideboards, occasional bald that was in the main of Miracle.
    Although I was concerned for a long time, I was not considering it because it was expensive, but when I think about it well, when the LED is recasted, the ability is triggered, infinite pump + infinite token!
    Besides, although it is necessary to prepare in advance, there is no need to increase mana, so combos are not disturbed by Thalia or a single Thorn of Amethyst.
    Even if the prowess of the body is killed, monk token also has prowess, so infinite pumping is possible!

    And the completed deck is here.

    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Ancient tombs
    4 Cavern of Souls
    2 Plains
    1 City of Traitors
    1 Karakas
    1 Island
    1 Tundra
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    - Land (20) -

    4 Auriok Salvager
    4 Monastery Mentor
    3 Trinket Mage
    - Creature (11) -

    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Mox Opal
    2 Engineered Explosives
    4 Lodestone Bauble
    3 "Contraindicated Alchemy"
    3 Impulse
    2 "Distorted Mourning"
    1 "rainbow-colored fragments"
    - Spell (29) -


    4 Leyline of the Void
    3 Magus of the Moon
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 "sincere witness"
    1 "Summoning Herquil"
    1 Disenchant
    - Sideboard (15) -
    I brought this to the Grand Prix.
    However, the result fell on the first day. It was drunk by the wave of Eldrazi.

    In addition to forcibly using the meta-compatibility besides forcibly, there are few cards that can be touched on the board surface, overall that the cards are heavy and the tempo is bad, some factors have not been able to win It was.


    In the year after that, I fell into a slump and it is impossible for this deck anymore, so I thought that I would like to retire from legacy now and play alone with a commander.


    Meanwhile, it was the walking ballista I saw with Kaladesh 's spoiler that I met.

    In a good way, I thought what hard work was to date until now, it was a card that I am addicted to Salvager perfectly.

    From there we considered the number of baubles, the type of land, the number of sheets, etc. We examined the change and made it through the adjustment, it is the first list.

    Completed with such feeling.
    The hardship was long, but I was glad that I could see the eyes of the day.
    I am going to continue my research in the future.


    <Last>


    It is a creative play movie that you used this list as a theme. I got permission to publish from my friend Short P (Hankoku).
    It seems that this list was actually assembled, and the way of winning and losing is very well characterized.
    It is perfect for the introductory part of Salvager Combo.
    Often there are many other interesting decks picked up, and surely those who read this article up to this point will enjoy it.
    Last edited by pettdan; 07-11-2017 at 05:12 PM.

  12. #72
    Well, Attempted Rationalism at least.
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    I kind of want to play this with Magus of the Wheel.

    It is often immunized from the opponent's instant speed interaction, it dumps its hand, wheel effects have great synergy with LED, its combo pieces can sit on the battlefield instead of the hand, and he's an R2 human.

  13. #73
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Monastery Mentor. He's bald and bold.
    -rob

  14. #74

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    a WR version with Leave // Chance looks nice too.

  15. #75

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Has anyone played with the deck lately, I feel as though the thread has gone a bit stale.

    I saw Anuraag Das (twitch and mtgo AnziID) stream the deck playing the legacy challenge a couple weeks back, you can see the VOD on his twitch page.

    Unfortunately he played it super poorly and it killed me to watch, also he was playing 4 city of traitors and zero artifact lands which I think is straight wrong. Also (and rightfully so because MTGO) he was playing G probe over Lodestone Bauble which is wrong in paper but probably correct online.

    My current List:
    4 auriok salvagers
    4 monastery mentor
    4 dark confidant
    4 walking ballista

    4 chalice of the void
    4 mishra's bauble
    4 urza's bauble
    2 lodestone bauble
    4 Mox opal
    4 lotus petal
    4 lion's eye diamond

    4 cavern of souls
    4 ancient tomb
    2 city of traitors
    2 ancient den
    2 windswept Heath
    2 plains
    2 scrubland

    Sb:
    2 orzhov pontiff
    2 containment priest
    2 engineered explosives
    2 disenchant
    3 swords to plowshares
    3 tormods crypt
    1 karakas

    Haven't had another opportunity to play lately but its an understatement to say that I've been chomping at the bit to monk-smash again soon!

  16. #76

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Apologies for the delay not getting back sooner. Not only have I been playing the deck lately, I've been having some good success with it at my LGS in the two tournaments I've ran it in (cashed in the two, for what it's worth). I basically took the skeleton that everyone's basically been working with and made some functional adjustments and tweaks to accommodate new card choices. My list is still fluctuating a bit, but it's starting to take shape.

    Here's what I've played, for reference:

    Chalice Bomberman

    4 Auriok Salvager
    4 Monastery Mentor
    3 Walking Ballista
    2 Trinket Mage

    4 Mox Opal
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Urza's Bauble
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Oath of Scholars
    3 Lodestone Bauble
    2 Gustha's Scepter
    1 Mox Diamond

    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Ancient Den
    3 Seat of the Synod
    2 City of Traitors
    1 Inventors' Fair

    3 Leyline of Sanctity
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Holy Light
    2 Disenchant
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Preacher
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Zuran Orb


    As you can see, there are some card selections that I made that would indefinitely raise some eyebrows. I'm not going to waste anyone's time here and go over the obvious choices, so what I'll provide is an aggregate of the matchups I've played against in the last two tournaments, results and some notes:

    vs. The Epic Storm [L: 1-2, Bryant Cook]
    • Games two and three he has the turn-one kill that beats Leyline of Sanctity. I mean, nothing you can do there.

    vs. Jund [W: 2-0]
    • I accelerate into turn-one Oath of Scholars in game two and draw twelve (12) cards over four turns. Tip: You stack the Oath trigger with the Bauble triggers so you have a hand of five (+) cards at the end of your draw step. Pretty gross.
    • Gustha's Scepter into LED, Mox Opal, City, hide Salvagers (from his Thoughtseize) on his turn, crack LED for WWW on my turn, activate the Scepter to bring back Salvagers and win (I think with Urza's Bauble drawing 50 cards).

    vs. Maverick [W: 2-1]
    • Game three I find LED on the turn he has double Knight (with only one active), activate the Salvagers, he tries for Bog, I activate again and punch through with a few astronomically-huge Monks.

    vs. The Epic Storm [L: 0-2 Bryant Cook]
    • He gets there game one after I mull hard.
    • Game two I have the Leyline and he has a turn-one kill through it again.

    vs. Grixis Delver [W: 2-0]
    • Chalice on one baits out the Force, but Scepter and LED work overtime to accelerate (and protect) into the win the next turn.
    • Holy Light gets some action here and wipes away a True-Name and some tokens. Monk beats get there.

    vs. Sneak and Show [W: 2-1]
    • I stall the board out with a Chalice on one, and Preacher holds down the wild west from there.
    • I mull again. Oath of Scholars draws me 15 cards this game after resolving it on turn two preceded by a Chalice on turn one. I'm able to combo out with Urza's Bauble and draw a massive amount of cards with Cavern and Mox up for Containment Priest.

    vs. B/R Reanimator [W: 2-1]
    • Game one I die.
    • Game two he dies to Chalice and Tormod's Crypt.
    • Game three I mull again, but this time good old-fashioned beats get there. Trinket Mage gets Crypt to stall his plays.

    An explanation of some cards:



    This card is disgusting in this deck. With so many people watching over my shoulder while this was in play, its intrinsic power was evident as I was able to empty my hand and accelerate into a power-play. This card compliments that plan, as it rewards you for emptying your hand with zero-cost artifacts. In two separate games, I was able to draw a total of 27 cards. That's really good and I feel bests Probe in this deck. I tried Probe in dozens of games and just didn't like it at all; it felt out of place. Sure, you draw a card, get info and maybe a Monk - but in the face of Chalice of the Void and Ancient Tomb which hits you for two, this card just wasn't cutting it for me.

    Oath, on the other hand, was really fucking good.



    This card I've been tinkering with a lot lately. Back in 1999, one of the best plays in the Academy deck was to leverage this card in conjunction with LED. I think that combination has been lost over time. This card does a huge amount of work:
    • It protects your hand from discard spells and effects.
    • It allows you to keep a hand so LED (2) is an (effective) win with Salvagers. (LED, LED, hide Salvagers, crack for WWWWWW, Scepter it back to hand, cast and activate Salvager generating arbitrary mana.)
    • It can sandbag hate cards against Storm, which I've entertained. Storm has a tendency to attack hands before comboing off, so you can hide something like a Mindbreak Trap and, when they attempt to win it, bring it back to your hand. It creates a "sub-hand" of sorts that they can't hit.
    • It enables Metalcraft at zero mana.
    • It lights up Oath of Scholars to trigger by hiding the cards.
    • As mentioned, it eases the stress of aggressive mulligans because it turns Lion's Eye Diamond into a true Black Lotus.

    Interesting note: all of the cards that get exiled from the Scepter go to the graveyard if Scepter leaves play. So worst-case scenario that happens - you still have those cards in the graveyard that you can possibly bring back with Salvagers.

    The rest of the deck is self-explanatory, including the sideboard which is obviously in flux. Some other notes:

    • Zuran Orb should be played in all sideboards at minimum of one, as facing down an Eidelon or Pillar is lights-out without this in play to juice your life total.
    • Holy Light is Holy Light: it wipes the board, fits the curve and protects your own Monk tokens. It kills True-Name, of course. It also compliments Chalice against decks like Elves.
    • Preacher is a one-of because I have some big creature decks in my meta. Priest is usually fine for that, but Preacher buffers the plan nicely. Not a big-tourney sideboard card, just local.
    • Leyline of Sanctity is fine for this deck, but I'm entertaining a pair of (Mindbreak) Traps. That with Leyline and Chalice is great against fast combo, which this deck has a hard time dealing with. The synergy with Scepter is very powerful, as well.
    • The mana base is still a work in progress. I haven't had too many issues with it, but I think a pair of Tundras would be fine. They aren't 100% necessary I don't think, but I could be wrong. Metalcraft early is so important, so I'll keep testing.

  17. #77

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    An explanation of some cards:



    This card is disgusting in this deck. With so many people watching over my shoulder while this was in play, its intrinsic power was evident as I was able to empty my hand and accelerate into a power-play. This card compliments that plan, as it rewards you for emptying your hand with zero-cost artifacts. In two separate games, I was able to draw a total of 27 cards. That's really good and I feel bests Probe in this deck. I tried Probe in dozens of games and just didn't like it at all; it felt out of place. Sure, you draw a card, get info and maybe a Monk - but in the face of Chalice of the Void and Ancient Tomb which hits you for two, this card just wasn't cutting it for me.

    Oath, on the other hand, was really fucking good.



    This card I've been tinkering with a lot lately. Back in 1999, one of the best plays in the Academy deck was to leverage this card in conjunction with LED. I think that combination has been lost over time. This card does a huge amount of work:
    • It protects your hand from discard spells and effects.
    • It allows you to keep a hand so LED (2) is an (effective) win with Salvagers. (LED, LED, hide Salvagers, crack for WWWWWW, Scepter it back to hand, cast and activate Salvager generating arbitrary mana.)
    • It can sandbag hate cards against Storm, which I've entertained. Storm has a tendency to attack hands before comboing off, so you can hide something like a Mindbreak Trap and, when they attempt to win it, bring it back to your hand. It creates a "sub-hand" of sorts that they can't hit.
    • It enables Metalcraft at zero mana.
    • It lights up Oath of Scholars to trigger by hiding the cards.
    • As mentioned, it eases the stress of aggressive mulligans because it turns Lion's Eye Diamond into a true Black Lotus.

    Interesting note: all of the cards that get exiled from the Scepter go to the graveyard if Scepter leaves play. So worst-case scenario that happens - you still have those cards in the graveyard that you can possibly bring back with Salvagers.

    The rest of the deck is self-explanatory, including the sideboard which is obviously in flux. Some other notes:

    • Zuran Orb should be played in all sideboards at minimum of one, as facing down an Eidelon or Pillar is lights-out without this in play to juice your life total.
    • Holy Light is Holy Light: it wipes the board, fits the curve and protects your own Monk tokens. It kills True-Name, of course. It also compliments Chalice against decks like Elves.
    • Preacher is a one-of because I have some big creature decks in my meta. Priest is usually fine for that, but Preacher buffers the plan nicely. Not a big-tourney sideboard card, just local.
    • Leyline of Sanctity is fine for this deck, but I'm entertaining a pair of (Mindbreak) Traps. That with Leyline and Chalice is great against fast combo, which this deck has a hard time dealing with. The synergy with Scepter is very powerful, as well.
    • The mana base is still a work in progress. I haven't had too many issues with it, but I think a pair of Tundras would be fine. They aren't 100% necessary I don't think, but I could be wrong. Metalcraft early is so important, so I'll keep testing.
    Thanks for your report, I love the exploration you're taking to the archetype, couple points:

    Regarding Oath of Scholars, I see the obvious card advantage aspects of the cards and the general appeal, my only problem with it is that it is a non-cavern color-restricted cost which I've found isn't real consistent in the deck and the 4 casting cost just bugs me a bit (salvagers being 4 sometimes is restrictive enough). Just feels to me as a giant daze target. With that being said, I just picked some up on tcgplayer (for like .15 each lol) and will give it a whirl!

    Sceptor - card disadvantage as it doesn't replace itself, yes I know it synergizes with oath ^ and also LED, which cannot be understated but it just seems like turn 2-3 are crucial for the deck and Mishra's bauble being another slowtrip wouldn't just be better. Again, I haven't played with the Sceptor, just asking the question that is begging to be asked.

    I think if you're going blue splash and playing trinket mage then Thoughtcast is the better card to play for card advantage

    I think playing less than 4 walking ballista is a mistake plain and simple. Our worst matchup is D&T and ballista is absolutely a HOUSE in that matchup. Also it keeps delvers at bay and just grows out of control quickly which helps in matches where plan A and B have been hated out.

    I very much prefer the black splash with Bob as it allows for an uncounterable card advantage engine (its pretty tough to lose when you play a T1 Bob). Also, it may seem negligible but being able to play Pontiff in the sb over holy light is a huge boon. It can be uncounterable with cavern, gets around Thalia tax (the matchup it really matters the most) and can double up with the haunt. Also its never dead as it can just pump your team.

    I am totally on board with the artifact lands though and would like to make room for a third in my list

  18. #78

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Capi5681 View Post
    Thanks for your report, I love the exploration you're taking to the archetype, couple points:

    Regarding Oath of Scholars, I see the obvious card advantage aspects of the cards and the general appeal, my only problem with it is that it is a non-cavern color-restricted cost which I've found isn't real consistent in the deck and the 4 casting cost just bugs me a bit (salvagers being 4 sometimes is restrictive enough). Just feels to me as a giant daze target. With that being said, I just picked some up on tcgplayer (for like .15 each lol) and will give it a whirl!
    You won't regret playing it. Daze is just as applicable to any other card in the deck that doesn't use Cavern. The same can be said for any other CMC=4 card; you can't really use that as a means to not play it. With a deck that accelerates incredibly fast, getting to four mana with LED is very easy - and five isn't much harder.

    Sceptor - card disadvantage as it doesn't replace itself, yes I know it synergizes with oath ^ and also LED, which cannot be understated but it just seems like turn 2-3 are crucial for the deck and Mishra's bauble being another slowtrip wouldn't just be better. Again, I haven't played with the Sceptor, just asking the question that is begging to be asked.
    Mishra's Bauble and Scepter have two completely functional differences. Gustha's Scepter enables broken turn two plays that Mishra's Bauble cannot. You don't want to be cantripping all the time into Baubles; it's just bad. The deck can have many bad top-decks, because let's face it: it's a Chalice deck. But it can have very strong plays, and this card is much more intrinsically powerful than a Bauble on turn one or two when you want to A.) protect your key cog in the wake of a lead-off discard spell, and B.) enable it in conjunction with LED to blow the game open on turn two.

    I think if you're going blue splash and playing trinket mage then Thoughtcast is the better card to play for card advantage.
    I've tried Thoughtcast and found it to be decent. I just think Oath synergizes better with the deck holistically. Thoughtcast is fine, but with cards that find themselves in the graveyard quickly (Baubles, LEDs, etc.), it can be awkward at times. I like the card, don't get me wrong, I just think Oath has more power and sustainability over the course of the mid to late game.

    I think playing less than 4 walking ballista is a mistake plain and simple. Our worst matchup is D&T and ballista is absolutely a HOUSE in that matchup. Also it keeps delvers at bay and just grows out of control quickly which helps in matches where plan A and B have been hated out.
    I had four in the sixty, but wasn't impressed. With Trinket Mage, you have an additional body. Death and Taxes can be addressed in the sideboard if it needs to be; I just feel that having three main and access to finding it two other ways is sufficient.

    I very much prefer the black splash with Bob as it allows for an uncounterable card advantage engine (its pretty tough to lose when you play a T1 Bob). Also, it may seem negligible but being able to play Pontiff in the sb over holy light is a huge boon. It can be uncounterable with cavern, gets around Thalia tax (the matchup it really matters the most) and can double up with the haunt. Also its never dead as it can just pump your team.
    Holy Light has instant-speed applicability where Pontiff doesn't. The Cavern bonus is nice, but really what match-up are you bringing it in against where you already have Cavern to make your Salvagers and Mentors uncounterable? Pontiff can't stop a swarm of Empty the Warrens when you draw off a Bauble in your opponent's upkeep and they're ready to swing for lethal that turn. Holy Light can do that, and can also stop Elves dead in its tracks as it tries to combo off. The same can be said for Infect at EOT, and other decks that rely on x/1 creatures.

    Honestly - it's not a card I want to tap mana for in my main phase.

    Dark Confidant would be great in this deck, no doubt. He's a card that is worth a slot, but changing and tweaking the mana base to support black is a whole other discussion. I don't think it's worth it, personally.

  19. #79

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    I will definitely be trying Oath and Sceptor my next time playing the deck though, the synergies are tantalizing I will admit...

    My next tournament with the deck won't be until 7/30 unfortunately but hopefully you get another one in before then and can report back?

    Is Inventor's Fair worth it? I get the appeal just don't think its necessary especially in a Trinket Mage build

    I think you're better off with a Tundra in that spot

  20. #80

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Just keep in mind that this is still a Chalice deck, so it's got the ability to get incredibly powerful starts, and also duds. The key is making the deck sustainable and redundant.

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