Hit 4-0 yesterday with the Wb build at our montly league, played the following list:
4 Walking Balista
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Dark Confidant
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Urza's Bauble
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Lodestone Bauble
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
2 Ancient Den
2 Scrubland
2 Plains
2 Windswepth Heath
Sideboard
2 Disenchant
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Orzhov Pontiff
Really happy with the deck and the sideboard. Played last Sunday as well in a bigger event, went 3-3, screwed one game over myself due to bad mulliganing/sideboarding (it's true, the deck mulligans bad) was still writing a report, but very busy at work at the moment, it will come.
I've found the same to be very true. It's a rough spot to be in where you need to rely on your baubles to dig you out of a bad hand. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't.Originally Posted by Xod
I've been playing the Imperial variant (red splash) and found that Recruiter is great at getting you out of tight spots (also I feel red has the most to offer for the SB), but Bobby seems so busted in this deck. I may have to work on picking up Bobs and Scrubs to try it out.
Have some questions about this list. What is the game plan by using Orzhov Pontiff in sideboard ?
Why using tomod's crypt in place of leyline of the void ? I mean people are playing th b/r reanimator version that has turn 0/1 grisebrand and hand disruption, that bean said, when playing tormod's crypt the chance of having a griselbrand in table is 60-100%.
Concerning tormods crypt: It is immediately on the table (metalcraft). It has zero mana cost. (Datk confidant). Most important the deck works with a lot of replacement effects. So they chance of drawing into one during the game is greater than in another deck.
Nevertheless i think leyline is stronger in that particular matchup, but perhaps not in this deck.
So I took my list (couple posts above - Wb with bobs) to a 5 round win-a-sea event today at my LGS for a perfect 4-0 draw into top-8 and clean sweep through the top-8 for the win! My fourth underground sea, not really quite sure what to do with it lol
R1 vs. BR Reanimator 2-1
so he had no idea what I was playing after I lead off with scrubland into windswept heath, I had the city of traitors and combo in hand as he takes his turn 3 (he already had a griselbrand in play, I don't really care much) but he drops tidespout tyrant bounces a land and then thoughtseizes which I scoop to so he still doesnt know what Im playing.
G2 he resolves another early griselbrand but I dont care and combo him anyway a couple turns later. G3 karakas bought me some time while ballista and mentor beatdown with a team of monks even through his grave titan and sea of zombies.
R2 vs. BR Reanimator (w/sb show & tell) 2-1
I won a lot of games today with a griselbrand in play for my opponents. This G1 was insane. Im on the play and play mentor w/2 monk triggers. He T1 entombs petal reanimate a griselbrand. T2 I play salvagers, LED and make infinite prowess triggers and win! G2 he gets an archon onboard and reanimates a fallen mentor and beats me down with my own monks :(. G3 combo after my opponent resolves a griselbrand, yet again.
R3 vs. Grixis delver 2-0
This was an absolute beating. Auriok salvagers is a complete house in this MU and pre-board he just cannot kill it once resolved and it just grinds him out as I keep rebuying ballista and shooting down delvers and DRSs. G2 he scooped quickly after a chalice on 1 T1. I felt comfortable running it out there as I had the T2 backup of mentor + a couple baubles if he used a force on the chalice.
R4 vs. "Miracles" 2-0
This match was all about Dark Confidant and Cavern of Souls. G1 I just grinded him out, yes I grinded out my UW control opponent as I played Bob after Bob after he kept dealing with them. Overall I think I drew an extra 5 cards this game alone. G2 I have a chalice on 1 and 2 and "half" combo and draw 40 cards on his upkeep, he concedes before I untap. Again, cavern of souls is the all-star in this MU.
R5 intentional draw into top seed in the top 8
Quarterfinals vs. UB Reanimator 2-1
Much harder reanimator MU as they have force of will but I combo G1 after it seemed like I was down and out with a relatively low amount of resources. With a cavern and LED in play already I draw salvagers and combo eventually. Lose G2 to a T1 Iona on white. G3 combo out of nowhere for the win
Semifinals vs. Miracles (different player) 2-1
I don't remember any of these matches super specifically (as you can see, sorry about that) but this game was the longest and hardest of the night. Early game I have a turn where I get in with 7 or 9 or so with mentor then bobs beatdown a little and get my opponent pretty low as he had a karakas and venser going and us both playing off the top of the deck. He has already gone through 2 jaces. I finally draw the salvagers and have no LED but more than enough mana to get the ballista in my GY and play it for the 3 or 4 necessary to finish him off.
G2 he "back to basics" me and then Jace on empty board and thats it.
G3 I chalice on t1 on the play and he kept a hand of surgical (not very good), 2 ponder and a swords.... he scoops a couple turns later
Finals vs. Grixis pyromancer (delverless) 2-0
Maybe the easiest MU of the night? G1 on the play (#1 seed, modified play/draw rule) I T1 bob off cavern, petal and he lives a couple turns. I actually get blown out by a K command on my mentor and mox opal and STILL manage to out attrition him as auriok salvagers (uncounterable with cavern) just runs away with the game buying back baubles and ballistas)
G2 an early chalice + salvagers combo (no wincon) drawing my 40 cards in opponents upkeep gets me the win and the Underground Sea!
This deck is awesome, definitely because of the element of surprise but even after people were watching my matches and then I would play them they still were baffled and amazed at the value and attrition game the deck can play. In my opinion this is the best version of the deck and I have tuned it quite a bit and am happy with every card in my 75.
A couple specific card choices people are curios about:
Bob - just play bob people, he's the best and a T1 uncounterable Bob will win you the game everytime (or at least it feels that way lol)
10 baubles, including mishra's bauble - really though, mid-late game the baubles are some of your best draws, why the fuck would you not play them?!
Walking ballista - shoots shit down, play all 4 you need them against thalias and delvers and revokers and such!
4 mox opal, 2 ancient den - I think the full set of Moxes are necessary to play T1 bobs and chalices consistently and I have found the 2 artifact lands give me just enough metalcraft consistency
the fetch lands - we play mishra's bauble why wouldnt we play fetch lands if we could? also its nice to be able to lead off with a fetch to avoid wasteland, you know just all the usual reasons fetchlands are great
sb:
Pontiff - really good (and uncounterable with cavern) to get rid of true-names, thalias and other D&T weeny creatures, young peezy and his minions, revokers, need I say more? Also it can just buff your team if none of the above is applicable!
tormod's crypt - was awesome for me as it allowed me some breathing room against miracles, I never got snapcastered today
Karakas was also a great 1-of in the sb and won me at least 1 game against reanimator
FYI I didnt play ethersworn canonist in my sb today, played the karakas and 1 extra tormod's crypt
EDIT: totally forgot to mention containment priest was OP in my reanimator matchups and drawing it absolutely was a big part of my success on the day
Last edited by Capi5681; 07-31-2017 at 08:46 AM.
I did the similar thing, only my opponent had a turn 1 Emrakul.
I know the reason, but I find it hard to cut the canonist. It certainly helped me stall my TES opponent long enough for me to win.
I did the similar thing, only my opponent had a turn 1 Emrakul.
I know the reason, but I find it hard to cut the canonist. It certainly helped me stall my TES opponent long enough for me to win.
What's your list looking like currently Xod? Canonist is definitely strong against storm I just rely on GY interaction (I understand doesn't apply vs. TES) in the form of Tormod's Crypt which I'll be honest I was medium on until I found myself siding it in every "Miracles" matchup and I swear my opponents did not cast a single snapcaster + plow on me all day! Considering we have relatively few impact creatures, slogging through 4 plows is sometimes tough enough in that matchup so I really wanted to hedge against the snap+plow as much as possible and I'll say it worked nicely!
I like that Wb list, but no way am I spending 80+ dollars on Mishra's Baubles,
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
http://shop.tcgplayer.com/magic/coldsnap/mishras-baubleI like that Wb list, but no way am I spending 80+ dollars on Mishra's Baubles,
They're like $20-30 USD/ea. Compared to LED's, Opals and such they're only a minor cost of the deck. No one ever said this was a budget deck lol
I've been testing the RW and BW lists, and from what I can tell, the BW is far more consistent than the RW. Yes, they're different, but have the same idea. I have been considering splashing a plateau and Nahiri in the BW version. Does this sound reasonable, or am I just a rookie?
sounds reasonable ya, I like the fact that it cleans up any pesky enchantments (ie rest in peace) that may be of annoyance
as far as ease of casting I would say it shouldn't be too hard just not sure which land I would cut, possibly a basic plains
I'll show my list when I'm not at work, and what I was planning on cutting. I personally am not a fan of city of traitors. I find myself more in need of having a colored land, like ancient den.
1-2 city of traitors are necessary to maintain a semi-consistent T1 chalice or mentor. Also it allows for more T2 kills. Its also great when you are on the ballista beatdown plan and is your best land in this scenario to painlessly pump it
I'm currently running:
Artifacts - 26
4 - Chalice of the Void
4 - Lion's Eye Diamond
2 - Lodestone Bauble
4 - Mishra's Bauble
4 - Mox Opal
4 - Urza's Bauble
Creature - 16
4 - Auriok Salvagers
4 - Dark Confidant
4 - Monastery Mentor
4 - Walking Ballista
Land - 18
2 - Ancient Den
4 - Ancient Tomb
4 - Cavern of Souls
1 - Karakas
2 - Plains
3 - Scrubland
2 - Windswept Heath
The Fifteen:
Artifacts: 5
2 - Engineered Explosives
3 - Tormods Crypt
Creature: 4
2 - Containment Priest
2 - Ethersworn Canonist
Instant: 5
2 - Disenchant
3 - Swords to Plowshares
Land: 1
1 - Karakas
If I was to play a single mainboard Nahiri, I'd make the following edits:
-1 Walking Ballista
-1 Scrubland
+1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
+1 Plateau
I'm running ancient dens because I've been in the habit of cracking/playing my baubles early, and my metalcraft count is low. Yes, getting hosed by null rod is the worst, but my wins are still consistent with this brew. If I was to put city of traitors back in, what would you guys cut?
I would shave a single lodestone bauble instead of the walking ballista but thats just my opinion. Walking ballista is pretty crucial and is what really gives you an advantage over delver and helps you hang in there against D&T (Thalia X_x)
but I would trim the karakas main or a basic plains to add a city back in (at least one)
The one posted in the 4-0 league game, on this page.
@DrDiabetes
I'd recommend against the third colour splash, and I don't think Nahiri is worth splashing for anyway. I always think of her as a "fifth" Salvagers to increase the decks ability to grind/is a wincon. But with Bob, I think she's unnecessary. The mana is shakier than it looks too! If anything, Imperial Recruiter is more reasonable because he's castable off Cavern, but then you have too many creatures and not enough of a balance of non-creatures to trigger Mentor.
I don't think MD Karakas is super necessary. I'd sooner replace that with a City or a Inventors' Fair. I find myself umming and erring between zero, 1 or 2 Cities, and honestly I feel like the proper number is 1.5. What I like for Wb is a mana base like this:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Ancient Den
2 Windswept Heath
2 Scrubland
2 Plains
1 City of Traitors
1 Inventors' Fair
Fair gives a nice payoff for running Dens.
Speaking about Dens, how do people feel about the two Dens? Are they doing enough for Metalcraft purposes?
For all of you running Disenchant, consider Seal of Cleansing so that when you are on Mentor beatdown you can still get Prowess triggers without needing a target.
Also, concerning Crypt, it's great. Turns on Metalcraft, loopable with Salvagers, triggers Mentor. It often feels like extra Urza's/Mishra's Baubles in matchups that matter. That being said, not sure if I'd bring them vs. Miracles.
Ya I think your concerns about 3c above are spot on considering Nahiri wouldn't also be castable off of the caverns. Your Wb sample manabase is good I still prefer the more consistency with the second City. I've played inventors fair before and wasn't impressed but I think it has its merits.
I have found the two ancient den to be perfect. While two cards in a 60 card deck without any selection effects doesn't seem like it would make much of a difference, what it really does is increase your T1 artifact count to 24 (T1 artifacts don't include ballista or chalice) to boost your population density and ensure metalcraft to really pay us off for playing the full set of Opals which I think is one of the most broken cards you can play (there's a reason the moxen are the most powerful cards in the history of the game). I don't have any statistic driven data to back my claims (where's Frank Karsten when you need him?!) but for me I've had it payoff a couple of times in a given tournament and that's good enough for me!
Totally agree about seal of cleansing, honestly I think I just didn't have any laying around at the time. Will definitely be making that change going forward.
So lastly, about siding in the tormod's crypts against miracles, here me out here - so my sb for that matchup is essentially... well nothing. I have a couple things I want to take out knowing that we are playing a somewhat longer game - 1 lodestone Bauble (I always trim 1 after game 1 but need to leave in one in case of ballista surgical), 1 Mox opal on the draw (game tends to go long, I keep in all 4 on the play to make sure I can play a T1 Bob if applicable), on the play I think I kept in the 4th Opal and shaved 1 ballista instead. So I wanted to bring in the Crypts because the way I lose this game is to get grinded into the dust with removal, ensuring that I only get 1-1'd with terminus and not getting plowed 8 times is how I planned on winning and not getting plowed more than 4 times meant I needed GY hate for snappy and it worked like a charm. It may seem like a corner case but our deck isn't exactly threat heavy and an EoT snap plow on a mentor untap play a Jace with a blocker is devastating, I just wanted to make sure that didn't happen and in two matches against Miracles it did not and I won both. My opponents both games said they had snapcasters rotting in their hand waiting to be an ambush viper (which I did not give them that chance to ambush my bobs).
I love all the renewed interest in the deck and the traffic in this thread now since I made the reddit post! Keep the ideas flowing peeps, Long live Bomberman! (and Bob!!)
All good points about Crypt man. I'm used to having a sideboard bomb like Gideon or Nahiri to bring and have leaned on these plus Explosives, but what you've said makes tonnes of sense.
Good to hear the two Dens are working out! I guess the Fairs' are up to preference.
And yeah good job on crushing and getting the deck more and more exposure! Pretty sure after all the streamers picking it up, it being in SCG coverage and you nailing it we'll see more interest, tuning and innovation to come. :)
Thanks! btw I appreciate all of your content, I always look forward to your weekly legacy article on goldfish.
What streams have had it played? I saw Calebs stream with it like a month back and Anuraag attempted to play it during a legacy challenge (was tough to watch honestly). Anything else I'm missing?
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