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Thread: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

  1. #121
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    whienot's Avatar
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Capi5681 View Post
    What streams have had it played? I saw Calebs stream with it like a month back and Anuraag attempted to play it during a legacy challenge (was tough to watch honestly). Anything else I'm missing?
    There is one match from the SCGATL team event

    What a beating.
    Tusk up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Just fucking ban the 600 pound gorilla and be done with it. FFS

  2. #122

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by whienot View Post
    ah ya I saw that too, that was awesome and against a top-tier deck as well!

  3. #123

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Hi there. This deck has become my secondary deck. Just tried it out and I'm liking it. Here's my list....I have no Mishra's Baubles atm. Which is why you don't see them there.

    4 Walking Ballista
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Monastery Mentor
    4 Auriok Salvagers

    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mox Opal
    4 Urza's Bauble
    1 Lodestone Bauble
    1 Engineered Explosives
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Unexpectedly Absent (a lot of lands players where I am, especially where I am testing this deck out, no Wonder I can't find a Tabernacle)

    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Scrubland
    2 Plains
    1 Karakas
    1 Inventor's Fair
    2 Ancient Den
    4 Cavern of Souls

    Sideboard
    3 Leyline of the Void
    2 Helm of Obedience
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Cast out
    1 Selfless Squire
    1 Orzhov Pontiff
    2 Disenchant
    1 Blessed Alliance
    2 Pithing Needle

    Notes: I tried list with and without Ancient Den and it's very key in gaining early Metalcraft. Playing Deadguy Ale, I already know the awesomeness of playing turn 1 Dark Confidant.
    -Going to be getting Mishra's Baubles for sure. Not sure if I can find a spot for 4 of them
    -I'm going to have to remember I can still get rid of an opposing Chalice on 0 with Explosives by only paying colorless mana for it. Found out playing Eldrazi and game 2 and 3 vs lands, that Chalice on zero is super annoying.
    -went with Leyline of the void/helm combo as another win con. You know, a plan c. I've killed one game with Helm and another with Salvagers combo. lol.
    -the one Inventor's Fair has been really good in finding the missing piece I need to win.
    -my version does play a lot of lands. I find hands to be very awkward, especially in terms of even being able to cast anything relevant. I tried 19 lands (and no Ancient Dens) and found myself mana screwed often. Now by going to 20 lands, with 2 of them Ancient Den (and therefore, should be able to turn on Mox Opal a little better), i'm hoping it's better. Deck doesn't mulligan well from my testing.
    -Blessed Alliance was great. I do have a ton of Dark Depths and Lands decks so having a way to deal with Marit Lage is crucial. Plus, the added bonus of gaining life is nice.

  4. #124

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Inventors fair doesnt seem that bad. The life gain is irrelevant 75% of the time, but sac'ing it to find LED? That doesnt sound too bad either, though I'm running 2 Karakas', one main and one side. I'm saving up to buy in paper, and preparing for what's in my area.

  5. #125

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy



    Has this card been considered at all, or is this not impactful enough? I think it might be decent as a way to turn Baubles into Bolts, which puts pressure on opponents in longer games.

  6. #126

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkin View Post
    Hi there. This deck has become my secondary deck. Just tried it out and I'm liking it. Here's my list....I have no Mishra's Baubles atm. Which is why you don't see them there.

    4 Walking Ballista
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Monastery Mentor
    4 Auriok Salvagers

    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mox Opal
    4 Urza's Bauble
    1 Lodestone Bauble
    1 Engineered Explosives
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Unexpectedly Absent (a lot of lands players where I am, especially where I am testing this deck out, no Wonder I can't find a Tabernacle)

    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Scrubland
    2 Plains
    1 Karakas
    1 Inventor's Fair
    2 Ancient Den
    4 Cavern of Souls

    Sideboard
    3 Leyline of the Void
    2 Helm of Obedience
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Cast out
    1 Selfless Squire
    1 Orzhov Pontiff
    2 Disenchant
    1 Blessed Alliance
    2 Pithing Needle

    Notes: I tried list with and without Ancient Den and it's very key in gaining early Metalcraft. Playing Deadguy Ale, I already know the awesomeness of playing turn 1 Dark Confidant.
    -Going to be getting Mishra's Baubles for sure. Not sure if I can find a spot for 4 of them
    -I'm going to have to remember I can still get rid of an opposing Chalice on 0 with Explosives by only paying colorless mana for it. Found out playing Eldrazi and game 2 and 3 vs lands, that Chalice on zero is super annoying.
    -went with Leyline of the void/helm combo as another win con. You know, a plan c. I've killed one game with Helm and another with Salvagers combo. lol.
    -the one Inventor's Fair has been really good in finding the missing piece I need to win.
    -my version does play a lot of lands. I find hands to be very awkward, especially in terms of even being able to cast anything relevant. I tried 19 lands (and no Ancient Dens) and found myself mana screwed often. Now by going to 20 lands, with 2 of them Ancient Den (and therefore, should be able to turn on Mox Opal a little better), i'm hoping it's better. Deck doesn't mulligan well from my testing.
    -Blessed Alliance was great. I do have a ton of Dark Depths and Lands decks so having a way to deal with Marit Lage is crucial. Plus, the added bonus of gaining life is nice.

    Once you get your Misrha's baubles you can go back down to 18 lands as essentially you add more air to your deck and will find your lands faster. I find that most opening hands look the same with mulligans not being super obvious as even a no lander could be a fine keep depending on play/draw and the other cards in your hand

    Not sure how I feel about unexpectedly absent in the md. I see it being inconsistent to cast and a unnecessary defensive card G1. If you are tuning your deck to be good in the local FNM meta because of lots of other chalice stompy decks that make you cold to chalice=0 then going up to 2 explosives would be your better

    Quote Originally Posted by AceOfJacks View Post


    Has this card been considered at all, or is this not impactful enough? I think it might be decent as a way to turn Baubles into Bolts, which puts pressure on opponents in longer games.

    Well its not really turning baubles into bolts because a bolt to the face isn't as effective as a bolt that can tag delvers, DRS or Thalias.

    a) I would imagine this being inconsistent to cast (while the deck does have a one color splash off white, the splash still relies on the "human" subtype to work nicely with cavern)
    b) taking your T2 to play this over a mentor/bob or something else seems bad. You really need to be adding to the board every turn in legacy and I feel like taking a turn off to play a 3-mana enchantment that doesn't win the game is not what you want to be doing.

    If I were to play any 3 mana do nothing enchantment in the deck it would be a sb Ghirapur Aether Grid or two but even that, it makes strong matchups (fair creature decks) better which shouldn't be the focus of the sb

  7. #127

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Sorry for the double post

    So yesterday I got 2nd at our monthly legacy sunday event (win-a-judge flusterstorm)

    Not really a tournament report but more of a MU report

    R1 vs. Grixis delver (4 young pyro version): 2-0

    So in this match I dont like to overboard considering we are already very strong vs. grixis delver. I prefer to just shave some LED (worse part of the combo). This is how I sb:
    -1 Mox Opal
    -1 Lodestone Bauble
    -2 LED
    +2 Engineered Explosives
    +2 Orzhov Pontiff

    R2 vs. odd affinity list: 1-2

    unfortunately this match was a total dud. G1 he mulled to 3. G2 was a good game, he had an early chalice on 0 that I dealt with. I had a chance to draw a land in 2 draws to combo and win but didnt and lost to a cranial plated vault skirge. G3 I mulled to 5 and kept a near unkeepable 5. No real sideboard notes here just took out the chalices and brought in all my removal and disenchant effects

    R3 vs. Merfolk: 2-1

    Won through a chalice on 0 like it was nothing. G3 my opponent had just assembled true-name nemesis + Jitte but I ripped salvagers off the top and combo-ed for the win just in the knick of time!
    same sb strat as last match, basically took out chalice and shaved some stuff and added all the removal and disenchant effects also containment priest I think?

    R4 vs. Lands: 2-1

    Definitely some really good grindy games. Won through a defense grid one of the games and a tabernacle the other.

    Top 4 R1 vs. Elves: 2-1

    Hilariously easy MU. They dont interact with the combo at all and theyre just too slow and not really doing anything we care about. Also, chalice on 1 is even better than usual!

    Top 4 R2 vs. Lands (same player): 1-2

    Combo-ed T1 game1 on the draw that went like this - LED, Mox, Petal, Urza's Bauble; play city of traitors; tap 2 from city, 1 from opal, crack petal to play salvagers. Make infinite mana and draw 40 cards during opponents upkeep. Win on T2. I like to call these T1.5 wins haha
    Overall the lands deck did its thing better the other 2 games and I ended up losing

    I love this deck. Play it, its fun

    Decklist again for ref:

    4 auriok salvagers
    4 monastery mentor
    4 dark confidant
    4 walking ballista

    4 chalice of the void
    4 mishra's bauble
    4 urza's bauble
    2 lodestone bauble
    4 Mox opal
    4 lotus petal
    4 lion's eye diamond

    4 cavern of souls
    4 ancient tomb
    2 city of traitors
    2 ancient den
    2 windswept Heath
    2 plains
    2 scrubland

    Sb:
    2 orzhov pontiff
    2 containment priest
    2 engineered explosives
    2 disenchant
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 swords to plowshares
    3 tormods crypt
    1 karakas

  8. #128

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Report for a small local tournament where I managed to punt the quarters. List here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bw-bomberman-3/

    R1 vs. a budget fluctuator deck: 2-0

    My opponent came to the tournament basically to check out cool Legacy decks. I think he cast all of one spell in two games. I combo'd quickly both games. Ended up boarding in TKS for a Lodestone Bauble G2 just for kicks and to get more information on what opponent was playing. My opening hands in this match were unfortunately the best I had all tournament.

    R2 vs Grixis Delver: 2-1

    G1 my opponent is able to bolt my Confidant and Force my Salvagers since I didn't have Cavern. I lose pretty quickly to Angler beats. I ended up with a chance at a really sick Mentor turn on my last turn alive, but unfortunately I was DOB to DRS activations at that point.

    I think Grixis Delver is a pretty great matchup because essentially their only relevant card is Force and we have 4x Cavern. Unless they're running Null Rod, they usually only have surgical to stop the combo post-board, which is fairly easy to play around. I ended up boarding out 1x LED 1x Lodestone for 1x EE and 1x Pontiff, I believe. I could board in more removal, but it kind of doesn't feel worth weakening our main plan.

    G2 I get sort of lucky because my opponent misplays twice due to unfamiliarity on how the combo works. I think I traded a Ballista for Delver and had a Mentor + token that got answered immediately. My opponent has DRS and Angler. I find another Mentor and can chump for a bit but am soon dead to DRS. I draw into Salvagers + LED the turn before I'm going to die. I play Salvagers and then cast LED and my opponent dismembers my Mentor, mis-remembering how Salvagers worked. They could have also eaten Ballista from my GY with DRS, but only on the first activation. The Mentor token would have given me one more turn but I was pretty dead unless the top of my deck was a second Salvagers.

    G3 I don't remember much of other than I combo'd for the win, but this time from a position where I wasn't as far behind.

    R3 vs D&T: 1-2

    G1 is a long grind fest where I just don't draw enough gas to match my opponent. I T1 Confidant but know my opponent is drawing STP thanks to a Mishra's Bauble. I have a Ballista threatening to take over the game, but my opponent finds a Flickerwisp the turn before it would have wiped his board. He gets to 4x Jitte counters before I can find a Salvager and I scoop.

    I side out 4x Chalice, 1x Lodestone, 1x LED and something else for 2x Seal, 2x STP, 1x Cast Out, 1x TKS and 1x EE. I ended up cutting Cast Out after G2 because it's a bit ambitious to cast against them.

    G2 I get a quick Mentor, which gets plowed. The second Mentor plus his army of monks gets there fairly quickly.

    G3 I end up answering my opponent's first Vial with my opponent stuck on two lands, but they find a second. I know from baubles that they have a Crusader to kill me fast and a Jailer to answer anything I get going. I kept a pretty bad reactive hand which I most certainly should have mulliganed. The game goes on for a long time but I was on the back foot the whole time. Once Crusader connects with Jitte it's over.

    R2 vs Grixis Delver: 2-0

    This match went much better than the one in R2. I believe I combo'd my opponent quickly in G1 and also had T1 Chalice. G2 I have an unanswered Bob and Ballista. I end up trading my Bob + some Ballista counters with an Angler, which in hindsight I think was a poor play. My opponent is draining me with DRS every turn, and although taking 5 is scary, my ballista is going to be a 5/5, possibly a 6/6, the next turn. Anyway I ended up with another Bob which flipped Mentor to put me in lethal range to DRS, but I was able to kill the DRS and my own Confidant with Ballista and win with it plus Mentor.

    I ended up third seed in the T8.

    Quarterfinals vs Lands: 1-2

    T1 Chalice for 1 shuts off the majority of my opponent's hand, and I kill him a few turns later.

    I want to win ASAP here. I ended up cutting 4x Bob and 1x Walking Ballista for 1x Cast Out, 2x Tormod's Crypt and 2x Seal of Cleansing. I think there's a good argument for just not having answers to Sphere of Resistance and keeping some Bobs in over the Seals.

    G2 I end up with Chalice on 2 with my opponent having a Molten Vortex, GQ and Mox Diamond. They play a Dark Depths, Gamble and discard the RG cycle land and have one card in hand. In hingsight, them gambling for Stage should have been very, very obvious, especially since they failed to GQ me. On my turn, I had the option of playing a Ballista for 2 or playing Cast Out on their Diamond. Figuring they were short on mana and wanting to play Ballista for 3 against the opposing Vortex, I decided to Cast Out. The big mistake was not using my Urza's Bauble beforehand to confirm that their one card in hand was Stage. The reasoning was that I needed the bauble for Metalcraft, but I drew a Mishra's bauble that turn. I just wasn't thinking clearly here. My opponent plays Stage, draws into a land to activate it and wins since I don't draw exactly Karakas. I feel like I was 99% to win had I kept Cast Out for Lage - my opponent would be down two depths (Diamond) and would only have Diamond and GQ in play with no way to Loam. It's possible I could lose to them waiting and trying to GQ me, but I was drawing into lands and I don't think there's any world where you play around Cast Out. They also showed me in G3 that they were just going to go for it every time, which makes sense.

    G3 I mulligan into a somewhat sketchy hand - it has no pressure, but has T1 Chalice on one with a decent shot of a quick Chalice on 2. Unfortunately my T1 land is City of Traitors, so I need to draw into another sol land, a petal or an Opal to chalice on 2 before starting to play my other lands. This causes me to scry a Lodestone Bauble to the bottom - I want to find one of the aforementioned cards ASAP, and I feel like the Lodestone costing 1 to draw might be too slow since I can't crack it T1. Turns out I miss on my first draw anyway, get there on the second and then have Salvagers + LED the turn before I die to Marit Lage but with no baubles or ballista to win with. I think my reasoning for scrying bottom wasn't terrible, but I do think I undervalued having a bauble in my GY.

    Going forward I'm excited to test out the version of the deck that was mentioned in this week's This Week in Legacy - a red heavy build with Burning Wish, Imperial Recruiter, Chandra and P&K Nalaar. No Mentors! Seems like it would be better against fair decks as it has less air and more gas, but worse against unfair decks since you don't have a secondary fast wincon in Mentor. Recruiter helps there, tutoring up Salvagers or Ballista.

    The TKS in the board replaced a Canonist last minute. The reasoning was that I wanted a higher threat density post-board against some fair matchups. Not sure if it was really worth. It wasn't really relevant against anything I played at this tournament except possibly D&T. I don't want it in vs Grixis because our mainboard plan is plenty solid and I don't want to weaken it too much with sideboard cards.

  9. #129
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    Mr. Headshot's Avatar
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Congrats for your top8. Very nice report. A pleasure to read! ;-)

    Have you tested infernal tutor? I run 2 of them for the moment.

  10. #130

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Hi aromaticity,

    I play the same maindeck except an extra ancient den over the karakas (the den helps to much getting mox opal online).

    This is my side:
    2 Disenchant
    2 Containment Priest
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Engineered Explosives
    2 Orzhov Pontiff
    1 Karakas

    Of course, with the Karakas main, you have an extra slot in there. I recently shaved the 2nd Ethersworn to include the karakas. I have some players at my LGS that play TES or ANT, so I always want to be prepared. But now that I'm going to play it at a bigger tournament, I might shave that one off as well.

    I saw that you always keep 1 lodestone in the main, were I usually cut, since normally it doesn't make that of a difference. But it makes sense to keep 1 in. (only bite me in the butt once)

    Also, this if how I would normally board against Grixis, the plows are dead with CotV on 1, but if you don't land it, or they remove it, you have an immediat answer to YP or Angler (of course WB can also do some work against YP)

    +2 Swords to Plowshares
    +2 Orzhov Pontiff
    -2 Lion’s Eye Diamond
    -2 Lodestone Bauble

    Might just shave 1 Pontiff and keep 1 lodestone in.

    Against Lands, instead of boarding Bob out, I board Walking Balista out. Bob will find answers, WB does not.

    Saw that you replaced Disenchants by Seal of Cleansing. Was thinking to find all the cons to use Seal, but found more pro's that I will probably also exchange them.

    The cast away, I tried briefly, but moved away from it because you want to board it in frequently and was mostly to do the same job (although worse) that disenchant does. But thinking it through, it might be really good against SnT variants and Land/Depth decks. Plus it's a catch all against troublesome creatures (although the only hatebear I see hitting with it, would be Spirit of the Labyrinth and Thalia, and even then, WB can hit does, and played around it before)

    Why did you include it in the deck?

  11. #131

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Karakas was main over Den because I knew people were packing Null Rods at the event, so I figured I'd kill two birds with one stone by running Karakas main and freeing up a sideboard slot. I can obvious still just make that swap post-board, though. Boarding into 19 land is also pretty good sometimes, so in general I'd rather have a copy in the board, maybe even the second copy depending on metagame.

    Against Grixis I feel like our Combo game is good enough and hard enough to interact with (Force on LED isn't great, obviously) that I didn't really want to trim down to 2 LEDs. Trimming two Lodestones is probably fine, though. I could be underestimating our ability to beat them on the grind plan and perhaps should be boarding a bit more, idk.

    I don't think Ballista is super good vs Lands or anything, but I don't want to cut too many combo pieces against them. Basically I used the same reasoning I use vs Reanimator decks and stuff like that: keep as much combo in as possible to race, maybe -1 win condition (usually ballista in these MUs). Cut Confidants because they're slow and replace with hate pieces/anti-hate.

    Cast Out is pretty good against Show and Tell decks as you pointed out and against Lands/Turbo Depths. Basically functions as an extra anti-hate pieces and a general removal spell and a hate pieces vs specific decks. Theoretically I could trim down on answers to stuff like Chalice when playing it but tbh we don't have that many great sideboard options anyway. I typically want to be boarding in as little as possible unless 1. we can cut chalice 2. our combo plan isn't good 3. our grind plan is particularly good.

    Regarding Infernal Tutor, I plan to test it eventually. Probably will test with 2x but I feel like I wouldn't want more than one.

  12. #132

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Hey guys glad to see the conversation kicking back up again!

    I have since switched to seals over disenchants in the sb and like them a lot better. Against lands you can get one out pre-defense grid, its nice to be able to play it to enable prowess even without a target, and its nice to get the initial investment out of the way to be able to save the mana for a critical later turn.

    My sb is the exact same as Xod (or his is the exact same as mine? hehe) just switching those seals for the disenchants

    I have since switched to 1 lodestone bauble / 1 infernal tutor. I did win a game with infernal tutor last weekend but its not like it was game changing or anything. I would never want to go above 1 as drawing multiples is bad bad bad.

    I do like to always keep in 1 lodestone bauble post-board especially against grixis as they will often try to surgical your ballista early, even before you could have a salvagers on board to try and double-buy.

    Im def not opposed to finding a spot for the Karakas mb but am having a hard time finding room in the tight manabase:

    4 cavern
    4 tomb
    2 city
    2 ancient den (I honestly think these are a MUST)
    2 plains
    2 scrubland
    2 fetchland

    In my last tournament I played, didn't have the best luck as I lost against UR delver and grixis pyromancer which should be plus matchups but I did continue my streak against UW not-miracles to 4-0. Its crazy as it appears the entire game you are behind on cards and then a cavern of souls just single handedly wins you the game! My miracle opponents claim that it feels like an un-winnable matchup for them, seems a bit far fetched BUT ILL TAKE IT!

    So against lands, which I've played against recently, I liked to shave 2 chalice, 1 ballista, 4 Bob and 1 Cavern for:
    2 seal of cleansing
    2 StP
    3 tormod's crypt
    1 Karakas

    This is my side:
    2 Seal of Cleansing
    2 Containment Priest
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Engineered Explosives
    2 Orzhov Pontiff
    1 Karakas

    Chalice is tricky here, on the play with an aggressive hand play it on 1 to slow down exploration, gamble, crop rot. If your hand is slower or you are on the draw you need to play for the long game and play it on 2! I repeat, PLAY YOUR CHALICE ON 2! You want it to counter Loam, punishing fire, thorn, defense grid, etc.

    Keep up the conversation, I love this deck!

  13. #133

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Will probably switch one Pontiff out for an Cast Out (and exchange the Disenchants by Seal of Cleansings)

    What I don't get, is siding out Bob's. (unless you are playing against Burn, and even then) He is a threat (although a slow one) that will get you your remaining combo pieces (or more mana to cast them, or baubles to find them faster) or your sideboard pieces. I still think he is the most valuable asset we have in this deck, so I have a very hard time siding him out.

    Think of it this way, if he survives one turn, he replaces himself, every turn after that is value. It might sound 'slow' but in this deck going through your deck with Bob and baubles will get you your answers or pieces. Against (non-land) decks, he might eat removal, (if not already protected by CotV) that 1 less removal for Salvagers and/or Mentor.

    I do understand not siding out all of your combo pieces, but I think people are underestimating the win with Mentor. Half of the games I win with mentor going bonkers with 1000 tokens. (ok that's part of the combo) sometimes as soon as turn 2 or 3 (turn 2 is mostly a god hand of solland, petal, mentor and a couple of baubles)

    Even without the infinite combo, Mentor + Bob, will ALWAYS make the kill. Bob will help you draw baubles or other shenanigans to trigger Mentor and secure the win on grind (or find the combo).

    I'll try to post a sideboard list vs most decks, and we can discuss it, (or if somebody has a list like this already for BW Bomberman).

  14. #134

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Xod View Post
    What I don't get, is siding out Bob's. (unless you are playing against Burn, and even then) He is a threat (although a slow one) that will get you your remaining combo pieces (or more mana to cast them, or baubles to find them faster) or your sideboard pieces. I still think he is the most valuable asset we have in this deck, so I have a very hard time siding him out.

    Think of it this way, if he survives one turn, he replaces himself, every turn after that is value. It might sound 'slow' but in this deck going through your deck with Bob and baubles will get you your answers or pieces. Against (non-land) decks, he might eat removal, (if not already protected by CotV) that 1 less removal for Salvagers and/or Mentor.

    I do understand not siding out all of your combo pieces, but I think people are underestimating the win with Mentor. Half of the games I win with mentor going bonkers with 1000 tokens. (ok that's part of the combo) sometimes as soon as turn 2 or 3 (turn 2 is mostly a god hand of solland, petal, mentor and a couple of baubles)

    Even without the infinite combo, Mentor + Bob, will ALWAYS make the kill. Bob will help you draw baubles or other shenanigans to trigger Mentor and secure the win on grind (or find the combo).
    I do agree with this in the general sense but you have to think about it at a higher level and just kind of tell yourself its the right move and run with it.

    In combo matchups - Storm, Reanimator, Belcher: Bob is an obvious side out as you need combo or mentor to be your T1-3 plays and you just don't have the turn to play Bob.

    matchups like Sneak/show and Lands are a bit tricky because they are really combo/control decks and I could see the argument to keep all/some/none of your Bobs post sb depending on your strategy, play/draw, what strategy your opponent is siding into (ie. opponent bringing in blood moon or sweepers?)

    I'm not a "shaver" when it comes to sideboarding, I feel that's a trap that too many people fall into when they are afraid to make changes in strategy and instead trim here and trim there, all-the-while weakening the core of their deck. Against lands, where they have punishing fire and other creature taxing effects I would rather just have those 7 cards in my opening hand be the actual cards I need rather than have Bob draw into those cards because you're not winning the long game against Lands 9 times out of 10 once they get their engine going... This is my take and strategy on the matchup (and sideboarding in general), not saying its right.

    You also mention sideboarding out a portion of combo and utilizing the mentor plan. This is absolutely true and I think in any non-combo matchup it is often correct to side out some number of LED, an opal (as you're typically lowering your artifact count post-sb) and one of the 5-6 ballista/lodestoneBauble pieces depending on matchup. I win wayyyy more often with mentor/monk beatdown than with combo.

  15. #135
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    bob2008's Avatar
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Hello Bombers,

    After watching Calebs videos I kinda felt in love with this „new“ aproach on bomberman.
    So here is my contibution: a short writeup from the MKM-Series in Hamburg last weekend.
    I would like to share my impressions of this sweet deck after 9 rounds.

    I played wb-bomberman for the first time ever. Got the missing cards a few hours before the tournament started. So my preparation for this event was mostly theory-based. Special thanks to my friend Steffen who helped me to get the missing cards right on time. Due to family and work I did not play a lot of magic the last years so please do not expect a Top-8 report here... Final result was 4:5

    list (thx capi5681)

    4 auriok salvagers
    4 monastery mentor
    4 dark confidant
    4 walking ballista

    4 chalice of the void
    4 mishra's bauble
    4 urza's bauble
    2 lodestone bauble
    4 Mox opal
    4 lotus petal
    4 lion's eye diamond

    4 cavern of souls
    4 ancient tomb
    2 city of traitors
    2 ancient den
    2 windswept Heath
    1 plains
    2 scrubland
    1 karakas (last minute change, as I expected a lot of SnT)

    Sb:

    3 containment priest
    2 engineered explosives
    2 seal of cleansing
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 swords to plowshares
    3 tormods crypt
    1 Umezawas Jitte


    Round 1/ GRIXIS DELVER 0:2

    No chalice both games. Fist match T1 BOB (cavern protected) got forked. Early balista and the follow up mentor did some work befor mentor got bolted. My opponent however had a VERY creature heavy draw and finaly managed to overload on my balistas...

    SB:
    + 2 plow
    -1 L.-Bauble, -1Mox

    Game 2 my oponent mulls to 5. I keep 7 - my hand is mostly air + T1 BOB . In retroperspective I should have mulled this I guess. Bob got forced and the redraws from my baubels were not good. He had T1 wasteland but misses on the next landdrops. Due to my lack of pressure he finds his way back in this game and wins on two life (grim lavamancer did some serious work on me here)...


    Bad start I guess... This MU should be OK in theory



    Round 2 / DEATH AND TAXES 2:0

    He had no idea what deck he is up against. Balistas hold him down and mentor just did his thing very quick and dirty in G1.

    SB:
    +2 plow, +2 EE, +1 Jitte
    - 4 Chalice, - 1 dark confidant

    Game 2 he starts very good with mother into Thalia and SFM. Karakas showed up and bounced Thalia two times. Like in G1 Mentor + Balista are just too much for his deck. I win the game with 2 plow + 1 EE in hand.


    Round 3 / STORM 0:2

    Reading Carstens name on the pairings I try to remember which deck is related to him. I had read some articels from him in the good old days but could not remember exactly. Keep a solid hand against anything with creatures ( no chalice ). I immediately regret as it turns out that he (of course) is playing storm. Not much to say about G1

    SB:
    + 3 Crypt, +2 Canonist
    - 1L.-Bauble, - 4 dark confidant

    I keep my 7 with a crypt and a T2 mentor (+ 3 triggers). Playing the crypt on my T1 might have been the wrong move. ANT killing on T1 is not that common and it would have gave one more monk on the following turn. My T3 monk-assault is meet by an abrade (BTW he told me later that he had three copies of that card in hand). On his turn 3 he brainstorms into the nuts and kills me through my crypt with a tutor chain. Carsten was a very nice opponent.


    Round 4 / STORM 1:2

    G1 he goes of on turn 2 but had some very bad reveals to his nauseam. He correctly stops and kills me on the following turn.

    SB:
    +3 Crypt, +2 Canonist
    - 1 L.Bauble, -4 dark confidant

    G2: Keep a hand with canonist and Chalice but no fast mana. Land, go. He probes me, thinks for quite some time and then deciedes to go for ad nauseam with no mana floating and 2 petals used already. His reveals were (again) not great so he stops at low life. T2 Canonist backed up by a chalice on 2 on turn 3 take him down.

    G3 I keep my 7 with a turn 1 Salvager + LED. My thoughtprocess was that there was a good chance of drawing „something“ to combo of with. I am not an math expert on but 4 balsita + 9 Baubels ( + hate pieces) seemed like a good chance. He did ponder, shuffel for 2 turns in a row, while i brick on my draws...

    I would realy like your guys thoughts on this, would you have keed the T1 infinita mana too? Chances for hitting a balista or bauble were not bad...



    Round 5 / TEZZERATOR 1:2

    Plains, go. He plays swamp. I kill him Turn 2 with infinite mana and Lodestone bauble.

    SB: I have no ide what he is playing, so i just bring in 2 EE for 1 Mox and 1 L.-bauble

    He starts with leyline of the void. After a few turns there is an Ensnaring bridge on the table and he is empty handed. I load up my balistas as fast as i can ( Sacing LED etc.). He is at 17 life. With the two balistas at 7 counters each (!) he topdecks his helm of whatnot and we go to G3

    I bring in the 2 seal of cleansing

    G3 was a grindfest including 2 Kolagands comand on his side and a bunch of plainswalers cerating CA for him. I have the salvagers ready with balista in the yard, rebuying baubels to find LED. He drops chalice on zero the turn befor i draw LED... Sad! I have two more draws to get rid of the chalice but fail to find an EE or seal. Die to his 5/5 beatdown


    Hmmm.... 1:4 after 5 rounds. Nice performance one might say. I do not consider droping because the deck feels good and it felt like I was just missing a bit of luck here and there.


    Round 6 / STORM 2:1

    This time with chalice on my side. Mentor takes him down real quick.

    G2 I already had canonist in play while he struggels to find his secound land. I made a mistake here an played my chalice on one (did not have enough mana to play it on two and was afraid of gettig it discarded). He finds his land, plays recall at my eot and comboes of on his turn...

    G3. Another quick chalice, he has no answer this time


    Round 7 / REANIMATOR/DEPTHS 2:0

    I have T1 Chalice into t2 Mentor She shows me wamp and stage. a bauble shows a dark depths on top of her deck. She makes a token only to get it bounced followed by beeing overruned by monks.

    SB:
    +2 Swords
    - 2 ?

    She keeps 7 and passes without a play. Her next turn she binns this masked white -2/-2 monster. On her next turn she exhumes trough my chalice on 1. In the meanwhile i however drew my combo, lay down the shrinked salvagers and kill her with balista


    Round 8 / STONEBLADE 2:0

    Not may memories here. He gets steamrolled both games. Fist game is combo, secound is mentor beats. Cavern was good here!


    Comming from 1-4 I should have stopped here... But like I said, the deck i realy fun to play so off to the last round...



    Round 9 / STONEBLADE 0:2

    … did not work as expected. My opponent played way more aggressive then the guy from round 8 and his t2 SFM was very hard to deal with.

    G2, he mulls to 5, I keept a hand that I probably should have mulled I guess. No t1 play but two copies of chalice to follow it up. He pierces my first chalice and plays surgical on it, taking my 2nd
    copy. Game becomes very grindy and I am slowly going down from baterskull beats. 3 lands in play, balista in the yard and LED on the field. 3 Salvagers in hand. On 6 life I draw my 4th land, slam salvagers but he has fow. Next turn I am down to 2 and try again (he has 2 cards in hand), this time salvagers resolves. But he has a timely sword to plowshares to stop me.



    So thats my report from last weeks tournament. The 2 Lodestone Baubles were more or less my flex slots. Might change them to more impactful cards like Jitte or Infernal tutor. Hopefully I get time to test some more in the future...

    I wanna say THANKS to all the contributors here that helped to brainstorm about this deck and contribute to the further development. I realy hope to see some more discussion about this deck

  16. #136

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Just picked up the last few pieces for this deck and played it in a 66-person tournament this past Sunday.

    Finished 3-4 with a couple tough losses off Dark Confidant flips, including one game in which I took 21 off just confidants and fetch lands; something that seems extremely unlucky with only 13 cards with a CMC above 0.

    The deck is a blast to play. I figured out pretty early that it can be right to wait a turn to combo off so that you can play around graveyard hate w/ multiple salvagers activations.

    I also think I was probably too hasty in firing off Mishra's Baubles to see what the opponent is about to draw, and should have instead used them more strategically with fetches and stacking confidant/bauble triggers to minimize self-damage.

    I couldn't resist playing a single Magus of the Will in the main (over the 2nd Lodestone) as a kind-of Salvagers #5. I did get to activate him and play 6 baubles from the graveyard with a Mentor and a couple tokens already in play, which was so fucking cool (I miss Yawgmoth's Will).

    I also REALLY liked Sanctum Prelate out of the board as Chalices 5-6, which I haven't seen elsewhere - and it was my best SB card for the tourney.

    Other than that, I played a pretty stock list, squeezing a Karakas into the main and side, and some Sorcerous Spylasses in the side too.

    1 Ancient Den
    4 Ancient Tomb
    1 Arid Mesa
    4 Cavern of Souls
    1 City of Traitors
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Karakas
    1 Marsh Flats
    2 Plains
    2 Scrubland
    1 Windswept Heath
    4 Auriok Salvagers
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    1 Lodestone Bauble
    4 Lotus Petal
    1 Magus of the Will
    4 Mishra's Bauble
    4 Monastery Mentor
    3 Mox Opal
    4 Urza's Bauble
    4 Walking Ballista

    Sideboard:
    2 Containment Priest
    1 Engineered Explosives
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Karakas
    2 Orzhov Pontiff
    2 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Seal of Cleansing
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Swords to Plowshares


    Looking forward to playing it again. I think the EE will become another Seal of Cleansing. I could also see a Spyglass finding its way into the main, but don't know what I'd cut.

  17. #137

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    I played the list above in a 3-round local weekly, going 2-1.

    Beat NicFit round1; game1 on the back of Monk tokens, then a quick combo game2.

    Beat RUG Delver round2 after a non-game1 with an early scoop to Chalice. Game 2 I baited out removal with Mentor and Prelate, then drew my deck with an unanswered Salvagers, winning the following turn.

    Lost to BR reanimator when he shredded my hand game1. Game 2 he showed a Chancellor, and a bauble sacrificed itself so I could cast LED and some petals turn1 (I kept a zero-land 6 of 3x petal, LED, Salvager, bauble). When he Exhumed a Griselbrand on his first turn, I sac'd the LED to get Salvagers into play, and was able to win from there, though that was just lucky since he didn't put a Chancellor into play to shut off my combo. Got ROFLstompped game3 anyway.

    I still lose both those games even with Crypts in the board, so still not sure if they're worth it.

    As I mentioned above, I like how Sanctum Prelate boosts the stompy-ness of the deck, and have wanted to emphasize that aspect even more. So I've been tinkering with a mono-white list that basically swaps Bobs for Thalia 2.0 and includes some Tsabo's Webs to make her way more brutal (against fetches). Will be testing it out this week, but I'll be playing one version or another of this deck at SCG DC this weekend!

  18. #138
    Member
    bob2008's Avatar
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Sanctum prelate looks interesting here - I will try to get some of them and try it out the next time. nice find !
    I am also on mono white now. Mana base gets a bit more stable which is good. I also play a 2nd karakas in the deck.

    So far I think the deck has sometimes difficulties to come bake from an unfavoured boardposition (mostly hoping to draw the missing combo piece) this is why i currently try a set of SFM in place of the bobs and the 2 flexslots. Thalia 2.0 is a cool card but - imo - she does not do much when you are behind on board .

    Not sure if this dillutes the deck to much but the grindpower of sfm might make the deck more stable overall. In the limited testing i did against ( mostly against bug) it was good.
    What do you think?

  19. #139
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    paradigm72's Avatar
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Agree on Sanctum Prelate being a promising find. Seems like it can help both the fair plan providing virtual card advantage, and the combo plan providing critical protection against removal.

    I've been tinkering with the idea of running Ensnaring Bridge main. It just seems so powerful against the fair-heavy metagame right now (and against Sneak/Reanimator out of the combo decks). Not sure how bad the anti-synergy with Mentor is, or if there's a board strategy to work around that.

  20. #140

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    You need some draw engine though, without black you’ve taken out Bob I’m assuming and he is how you grind and re-fuel. If you’re off the Black than I think Blue is required for thoughtcast or some sort of card advantage engine. The deck plays too lean to not have a source or card advantage.

    Also a bonus of Bob, since our combo is creature based (yes mentor is a ‘combo’) he acts as almost a “Coalition Honor Guard” insulating our combo creatures against the limited removal that legacy decks play
    Last edited by Capi5681; 10-27-2017 at 09:21 AM. Reason: Additional thoughts

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