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Thread: AskNought

  1. #21

    Re: AskNought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    I had been taking some time off from Legacy because there is a large Modern event approaching and I had been gearing up for that. Also I only had two chalice of the void so I was saving up to finish my playset. Which brings us to this incarnation:

    Ask Nought, Denial Mode

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Torpor Orb
    3 Illusionary Mask
    3 Lotus Petal

    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Eater of Days
    2 Kira, Great Glass Spinner

    4 Impulse
    4 Trickbind
    4 Force of Will
    3 Misdirection
    3 Transmute artifact

    3 City of Traitors
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 Wasteland
    2 Academy ruins
    2 Seat of the Synod
    7 Island

    Added Chalice on 1 to the list of "Good opening plays" and eschewed grim monolith in favor of lotus petal. The idea being that trading the mana-intensive Wurmcoil Engine in for the more defensive Kira requires a more reliable access to blue mana. (Although, 11 Blue sources is still greedy)
    Transmute artifact was added, along with a pair of Seat of the Synods to help pay for it and to feed it. I haven't had time to shuffle it up yet but just gauging everyone's reactions first
    Ok this build was garbage. Ew. Ick. Gross.
    We'll come back later with a colorless build that can goldfish well.

  2. #22

    Re: AskNought

    How about this big mana hybrid. It has little protection or disruption, but a good threat density and is quick.

    4x Torpor Orb
    4x Illusionary Mask
    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x Grim Monolith

    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Eater of Days
    4 Reality Smasher
    4 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Steel Hellkite
    2 Sundering Titan

    4 Warping Wail
    1 All is Dust

    4 City of Traitors
    4 Cloudpost
    4 Glimmerpost
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 Wasteland
    1 Vesuva

    Ask Nought Mud Stompy.

  3. #23

    Re: AskNought

    The local legacy tournament didnt quite fire, and instead the four of us played a round robin. I got in 3 matches that went something like this:

    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Eater of Days
    4 Hunted horror
    2 Reality Smasher

    4 Torpor Orb
    4 Illusionary Mask
    4 Thoughtsieze
    4 Hymn to Torach
    4 Dark Ritual
    2 Dismember
    2 Not of This World

    4 Wasteland
    4 Ancient Tomb
    14 Swamp

    Sideboard:
    4 Leyline of Singularity
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Essene Harvest
    3 Massacre

    I ended up going 3-0 the hard way for a total of nine games.
    First against spiral tide: Hand disruption and and a clock is a good way to kill them dead. Game two I had just one Hymn, and he killed me when I played the dreadnought. 2-1
    Next against enchantress, he had a t0 leyline of sanctity, and played a humility to sea the game with me holding onto 2 thoughtseize and 2 hymns. Next game he couldn't get the second white to play it. Third game he played a moat and a leyline, and luckily I had the wasteland to prevent humility, and the eater to get around the moat. (As well as a full playset of Dreadnoughts surrounding the moat and an Essense Harvest in hand)
    Last, was manaless dredge. Game one I won with an early dreadnought and a torpor Orb (which shuts down a lot more than I thought it would. Amalgams can't come back, flayers of the hatebound can't reach for the face, and weird merfolk things can't dredge for a billion.) It was close though as he started to get Narcomeoba + bridge online (since torpor orb DOES mean I can't simply cast->sac dreadnought to exile all of them). Game two I didn't expect a force of will for torpor orb. Game three he scooped to leyline.
    Bonus, I played a match on MTGO against GW (Maverick?) Which I also won by using discard to put him into topdeck mode, and removal for the t1/2 plays (Like killing a t1 dryad arbor. Online I was using Geth's Verdict instead of dismember)
    I'm coming around to this black version of the deck where you can simply put your opponent into top-deck mode and then play the biggest threat available. When you know your opponent has nothing available to them, you can even get greedy and start skipping turns, or run creatures out as fast as you can unlike in blue and colorless versions where I'd run them straight into removal or counter magic. One thing I'd like to find is some cards. I don't want to go for Bob, because he's a creature and Areana just seems too expensive.

  4. #24

    Re: AskNought


  5. #25
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    Re: AskNought

    I question your use of 2x Sanctum of Ugin with only 5x mainboard spells to trigger it, and no Eye of Ugin to decrease cost of All is Dust. Isn't that just worse than Inventors' Fair (aside from the legendary bit). Maybe this is a misunderstanding of how Illusionary Mask actually works?

  6. #26

    Re: AskNought

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I question your use of 2x Sanctum of Ugin with only 5x mainboard spells to trigger it, and no Eye of Ugin to decrease cost of All is Dust. Isn't that just worse than Inventors' Fair (aside from the legendary bit). Maybe this is a misunderstanding of how Illusionary Mask actually works?
    This is a good point, and you're probably right. I just needed a tutor and my options are eye like you said, which I don't like because there's only five spells I can use it to tutor up and/or reduce the cost of.
    ...which is the same as sanctum, but sanctum can tap for any spell. But inventor's fair offers a lot of upside with the life gain and the tutoring so I'll look into picking one up.

  7. #27
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    Re: AskNought

    I've been messing around with different dreadnought lists locally for a while now. In preparation for wizards printing an ETB nerfing land, I'm trying to get Hymn-nought reps in. I'd be interested to hear any feedback on what you think about this list:

    2 Illusionary Mask
    1 Sundial of the Infinite
    4 Torpor Orb

    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Hunted Horror
    2 Gurmag Angler
    2 Eldrazi Mimic

    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    2 Diabolic Edict

    2 Dark Ritual
    2 Beseech the Queen
    2 Abrupt Decay
    1 Toxic Deluge

    1 Liliana, the Last Hope
    1 Sylvan Library

    2 Bayou
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Polluted Delta
    10 Swamp
    2 Wasteland

    Sideboard
    4 Leyline of the Void
    3 Choke
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Abrupt Decay
    3 Not of This World
    2 Hero's Downfall

  8. #28

    Re: AskNought

    If you're already in green and running sundial you might consider berserk. And why no unearth?

  9. #29

    Re: AskNought

    Quote Originally Posted by TLK View Post
    Ah, that make sense. Pretty cool interaction with Thing in the Ice, too. Just need to cast 1 spell to flip it.
    Does Thing in the Ice combo with both Torpor Orb and Illusionary Mask. If it combos with both, I would think it’s a great inclusion for this deck.

  10. #30
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    Re: AskNought

    It doesn't work with Torpor Orb. There isn't a trigger, Thing enters with counters on it. Even if it did enter without counters you would then have to trigger it with an instant or sorcery. Mask is confusing, and it might work there. Need a judge for that one, lol.
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  11. #31

    Re: AskNought

    Thing in the ice doesn't work with sundial or orb. I believe they changed the rules regarding DFC cards and entering face down. Before if you tried to have a DFC enter the battlefield face down it would enter face up as normal. I *think* the current rule is that it enters as a face down 2/2. So with Mask you'd have to flip it face-up, then cast a spell to trigger the transformation.
    Yes I just looked it up. Rule 711.9: if cast off mask it will be a face down 2/2 with no abilities and can't transform until you turn it face up.

  12. #32

    Re: AskNought

    Have someone tried Lazav, the Multifarious?
    I would remove Angler and add 2 Lazav and maybe Entomb.

  13. #33
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    Re: AskNought

    Illusionary Mask definitely works with Thing in the Ice. So 2/2 face-down attacks -> becomes 0/4 defender attacking [defender is more a suggestion than a keyword] -> cast an instant in declare attackers step to bounce all [non-Horror] blockers -> pretty much trample for 7.

    @Vickas Lazav is one of those cards [like Mimic*] that wasn't good enough to make it past Dreadnought theory and into testing.
    *Mimic is a little different in that it can compete in legacy as a function of occurring alongside Sol lands + Chalice on 1. The fast-mana starting point [Tomb] is foundation upon which the rest of AskNought builds from as we investigate whether or not Dread-tech can improve the premise.

    @Fallen_Empire I think your list is better discussed in the non-stompy thread [Dreadstill], which is more the home of colored Dreadnought theory.
    While we're here though, there are two large issues I see with your deck:
    1- it will win less than TurboDepths while kind of doing the same thing.
    2- Dreadnought and Hunted Horror go in opposite directions [dedicated blue vs dedicated black]. I think creative space for Horror lies more with Shadow revolving ideas of slower, deliberate life-loss strategies (perhaps heavy Toxic Deluge use) rather than Torpor Orb or Fetch/Shock/Wraith. There are also black [or black + green] mana denial themes which could be incorporated.

    When using Dreadnoughts [blue] with black, I find that the best ways to win are Lotus Petal-centric [Delver/Confidant or Reanimator, either strat tuned to maximize Last Hope x2]. An honorable mention definitely goes out to Hecatomb which goes nicely with Stifle effects. If interested in maximizing Sundial is the objective, deck design swings back towards UB (potentially Dreadnoughts + Hunted Horror) quickly. There is also latent potential in cards like Stubborn Denial and Swan Song rather than Daze builds, but I think we're still missing a few pieces for a deck's focus to be that donation of 2/2 and 3/3 tokens is no longer a disadvantage.

  14. #34
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    Re: AskNought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    If you're already in green and running sundial you might consider berserk. And why no unearth?
    Yeah I've thought about berserk I just never seem to draw it when I need it. One thing I've found is with this much discard plus the inevitable creature removal against us, it isn't hard to delve out Gurmags. Additionally, opponents are very hesitant to use removal on Gurmags rightfully fearing the 12/12 & 7/7 tramplers so they usually resolve and stick around for a bit. Yeah pumping Gurmag's to 10/10 trample seems like a legit plan B to me if I can't swing for 24. I'll consider it... I don't have a good reason for not running unearth, other than it doesn't work well if I don't have orb out. It doesn't work with Mask or Sundial though I think it is worth exploring.

    @Fox real talk I agree the deck feels like a bad depths deck.. Toxic deluge main + hunted horror feels great and I think it is worth exploring more... It feels great clearing their board- 3/3 black tokens included with the toxic d. Can you elaborate about why you think horror and dreadnought have a dis-energy together? What's wrong with artifacts in a black deck?

    As for the following card configuration:

    2 mask
    4 orb
    1 sundial

    That is just what i'm working with in paper at the moment. If I had 4 masks (i'll get there eventually if needed) I would probably run them. I don't know how much etb stopping artifacts are optimal. Probably 4 masks and 3 orbs, but there could be utility in running combos of all 3 to prevent one getting surgical'd... I used to swear by torpor orb, but I've been screwed on multiple occasions by having a dreadnought thoughtseized + animate dead only to be beaten down by my own guy with my torpor orb in play. Another hypothetical non-immediate concern is that if our opponent were also on a dreadnought list, they could use our own orb to put their own bigs into play.

  15. #35

    Re: AskNought

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire View Post
    I don't have a good reason for not running unearth, other than it doesn't work well if I don't have orb out. It doesn't work with Mask or Sundial though I think it is worth exploring.
    You're mistaken about sundial (Unearth is a sorcery, so you'll be casting it on your turn, which Sundial can end with bad spells on the stack). Unearth also cycles so it's never dead.

    Appropos of nothing, ending your turn in response to a kill spell is one of the best feelings. As is sundial-as-wasteland when they try to fetch. You usually get one free activation a match with careless opponents.

  16. #36
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    Re: AskNought

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire View Post
    In preparation for wizards printing an ETB nerfing land
    What? Why haven't I heard of this? Where did you hear of this? This will be very interesting if true.
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  17. #37
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    Re: AskNought

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrislegend View Post
    What? Why haven't I heard of this? Where did you hear of this? This will be very interesting if true.
    There was a discussion going on in the b/r forum about what the impact would be if such a card did get printed. To my knowledge it is just a fantasy.
    Last edited by Fallen_Empire; 12-20-2018 at 02:20 AM.

  18. #38
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    Re: AskNought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    You're mistaken about sundial (Unearth is a sorcery, so you'll be casting it on your turn, which Sundial can end with bad spells on the stack). Unearth also cycles so it's never dead.

    Appropos of nothing, ending your turn in response to a kill spell is one of the best feelings. As is sundial-as-wasteland when they try to fetch. You usually get one free activation a match with careless opponents.
    Yeah you right cuz. Just ordered 3 more sundials

  19. #39

    Re: AskNought

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrislegend View Post
    What? Why haven't I heard of this? Where did you hear of this? This will be very interesting if true.
    Someone bumped the thread as a joke.

  20. #40
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    Re: AskNought

    @Fallen-Empire the main issue between the two is that Dreadnought prefers basic island openers over any other. Your list is BG, so we aren't going to see much conflict over basic swamp opener [the Horror Plan] and Dreadnought; it's just that it would be more powerful/easier to build in Grisel, Shadow/Deluge, or Marit Lage with Horror. [Colored] Dreadnought prefers land destruction/mana denial as a primary route to victory, and this plays rather poorly with producing BB early on.

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