So I was thinking about just how bad Standard could get if UW Approach turns out to be the best deck. Came up with a list of ways the other colors have to stop it:
Blue: Counterspells
White: Gideon of the Trials
Red: Glorious End
Black: Lost Legacy
Green: LoL noobs!
It's counterspells + 3 specific cards, only one of which is really maindeckable. Maybe Ramunap Red can stay fast enough to get in under it and keep the format from being the dumbest, slowest thing in history. It would be really bad for the game is Standard was messed up.. again, but goddamn the shaedenfruede would be amazing.
Now that it's fully spoiled, this set seems pretty weak.
It isn't the greatest set, but I don't think it's weak, just meh overall. It has a couple of interesting cards like Spyglass or the blue flip enchantment and is certainly way better than the shitshow that Amonkhet.Originally Posted by rufus
I was really hoping there'd be some awesome red dinosaurs so people could rebuild Dragon Stompy and call it "Jurassic Park." No dice, I guess.
You don't think Charging Monstrosaur will wreck face in Legacy? It's like... a Lava Axe with legs!! and tiny arms...
Raging Ferocidon stands out as something red decks want to at least be aware of. It's 2R for a 3/3 that says "players can't gain life" plus damage on creatures entering the battlefield.
Sunbird's Invocation is pretty key to running a mono-red storm list.
Deeproot Champion is a green merfolk quirion dryad (except it doesn't trigger of critters, making it useless to merfolk)
Most of the flip lands look pretty interesting, although we'll have to wait and see how they play out in practice. It's not a Legacy all-star set by any means, but there's a fair bit of stuff there.
I do wonder what the obsession with the "4C" casting cost was this set though.
I predict Swords to Plowshares will make it so that card never sees eternal play. In most situations, Sin Prodder is just better. I'll admit to looking at Ferocidon multiple times before coming to that conclusion though.
I wasn't anticipating this set being strong, since there's a strong emphasis on fluffy tropes, tribes, and big stompy stuff and none of that really ends up doing well in Legacy. That said, I think there's a few things that are worth mentioning:
Kopala, Warden of Waves: An interesting sidegrade to Kira in a Merfolk deck. It's better against some things (Decay) and worse against others (Bolt, StP, Dismember), but being able to pick up tribal bonuses is really useful. Overall not super exciting because Merfolk isn't a super exciting deck.
Search for Azcanta: This is kind of interesting in control decks since it should be relatively easy to flip and the back side is supremely useful. That said, it's effectively four mana to dig a card out of your top four, which is a really steep rate, and the front side is such minor filtering that it isn't even worth a card. I can't see it being all that good anywhere right now.
Deeproot Champion: Quirion Dryad hasn't been playable in ages, so this won't be either.
Perilous Voyage: Chain of Vapor or Voyage? Chain is cheaper but Voyage has upside. Voyage is also randomly better in some niche situations where raw mana efficiency doesn't matter all that much (against Chalice, for example). Overall I think Chain still has the edge here because the decks most interested in bounce rather than hard removal are really interested in the one mana price tag (such as Storm).
Sorcerous Spyglass: This is a slightly more useful Pithing Needle against decks that run Chalice and a lot of permanents with activated abilities, so stuff like Lands or Aggro Loam. That said, the raw mana efficiency of Needle is worth more than a turn of perfect information most of the time, so I suspect this won't displace Needle from most sideboards.
The amount of good targeted removal we have in legacy makes going wide really better than going high.
Tarmogoyf is at a historycal minimum of playability, and the guy's better than both Quirion Dryad and Deeproot Champion already.
I'd say Search for Azcanta and Chart a Course have a sligh chance of being legacy viable, but I'd not bet on that.
re-edit: nvm, read the card wrong.
You guys completely missed this card?
It's not irrelevant, given what it does.
The more important part is that Chalice decks can run Pithing Needle effects now, too - with upside, as early as turn 1. Enjoy getting your grip with fetchlands only jammed.
One of the problems of the fliplands is the nonbasic hate in Legacy. Jumping through hoops, just to get wastelanded/Blood Moon'd doesn't sound too hot, but maybe some of them turn out to be playable despite of that.
The only deck that would want a 2 maana hatebear ironically gets pretty hosed by this hate bearYou guys completely missed this card?
It's not irrelevant, given what it does.
I'm suprised nobody has talked about this yet:
GSZ-able weenie removal and blocks Delvers for days. It's a shame the power couldn't be two - that would have been an amazing gamechanger against Delver and DRS alike.
I wrote this off as draft chaff, but it is actually kind of sweetI'm suprised nobody has talked about this yet:
GSZ-able weenie removal and blocks Delvers for days. It's a shame the power couldn't be two - that would have been an amazing gamechanger against Delver and DRS alike.
In bold cards with (fringe) legacy use.
Underlined is for standard use
Italic for Modern
Hostage Taker is a 4 mana duplicant in ub tezz that also deals with artifacts. Fringe play, but could be good
Chart a Course looks like delver material.
All the flip lands will see heavy commander play
Kinjalli's Sunwing is decent, even in DNT even with Thalia out there. Evasion is relevant in a deck with stone-forge mystic
Settle the Wreckage looks decent. Instant speed mass-exile
Depths of Desire and Perilous Voyage could be sideboard cards for Storm decks to get rid of hate bears. Scry is great for 2-card combo decks like reanimator (bounce rest in peace, scry 2) or sneak and show (bounce needle, scry 2), enabling them to dig for more relevant combo pieces and answer problem permanents. However, you probably want to bounce the problem permanent only IF you have the combo in hand, so I'm not sure how useful the scry is in this case. Storm decks could use it against Gaddock Teeg, but I kind of like Depths of Desire a little bit more because storm decks that run into hatebears have a little bit more time on their hands anyway and the Treasure goes a long way in helping them go off. They play Lotus Petal, so a free petal on a combo-hate-answer is good even though you don't generate storm with it like you do with actual Lotus Petal (3cc vs 0cc).
Dreamcaller Siren will see a bunch of standard play. Ability to tap down creatures, and high power evasive pirate is good. Reminds me of Dungeon Geist which was played in standard a lot as well (same mana cost, body, flying, and no untaps instead of taps)
Kopala looks like a great addition for the merfolk deck, but I think Merfolk is still not good enough
Search for Azcanta is imo the best card in the set. I spoke about this already and you see its popularity go up on MCM too now. It will dominate standard UW approach and I believe in legacy this might even become the replacement for counterbalance in hard control decks. Difficult to evaluate the latter, but def has the potential.
Siren Stormtamer looks very efficient. I wonder if there is a place for this in legacy. It will probably see play in Modern and standard because it's a 1 drop evasive hardcounter. It's cheaper than most hard counters in these formats, while also being able to beat.
Dead Eye Tracker - I'm still on the fence about dead eye tracker. The ability to draw cards off of graveyard hate is great. It can even grow with +1/+1 counters, but the mana cost is prohibitive. I like the explore mechanic and I think there will be a standard explore deck because of a green card and a vehicle I mention later.
Fathom Fleet Captain can get out of hand quickly. Menace is a great ability to have and producing more creatures with menace is sweet. This will see standard play
Kitesail Freebooter is a flying duress that works with pirate cards like Lookout's Dispersal
Captivating Crew could go into dragon stompy but it probably won't be good enough due to sorcery speed. Otherwise, you could get a Marit Lage before it attacks.
Rigging Runner - did we have a 2/2 first strike for R before?
Rampaging Verocidon - Menace and continuous life loss for playing creatures is good in standard. In ability to gain life is nice as well, esp. against approach of the second sun
Rowdy Crew will see standard play. It looks like the most playable mythic, oddly enough. So this is a 5/5 trample that cantrips and fills the graveyard at max, and a 3/3 tramp that hoses your hand at worst. Red doesn't get a lot of proper card draw, so if you view this as a card draw spell with a body attached to it, then I think it is okay.
I'm exciting for Captain Lannery Storm. I think dragon stompy can use him, and I will personally brew with this card. I'm thinking of Curse of Opulensce + Captain Lannery Storm + Ghirapur Aethergrid. Will probably never be good enough but fuck it I'll still brew this up
Atzocan Archer is a very nice way to get rid of Young Pyromancer and block delvers
I'm undecided about Deathgorge Scavenger
Growing Rites of Itlimoc - This is not nearly Gaea's Cradle, but it is still a good card (because it is also decent pre-flip)
Vona, Butcher of Magan looks strong enough to see play if there is a BW deck out there.
Vraska, Relic Keeper is also a great standard card. Might even pop up in nic fit as a one off.
Primal Wellspring - If you can flip this, you win the game instantly after playing only one Approach of the Second Sun. The copy will go on the stack and resolve first, then you resolve the actual Approach of the Second Sun and you win the game.
Sorcerous Spyglass will go into chalice decks. Lantern control, and against the scarab god, It will see heavy play imo.
There's one more uncommon in the set that is a sleeper, but I'm keeping that one for myself for now :-)
For standard I like this as an explore shell: Shadowed Caravel + Wildgrowth Walker + Dead Eye Explorer
Shadowed Caravel
Wildgrowth Walker
Dead Eye Explorer
lurking chupacabra
merfolk branchwalker
ixalli's diviner
emperor's vanguard
direfleet interloper
Probably too many shitty creatures, but theoretically you could chain into more creatures or get the +1/+1 counters, and Wildgrowth Walker + Shadowed Caravel would grow sort of like gro-a-tog decks. The lifegain from wildgrowth walker is relevant against ramunap red and the graveyard removal from dead eye tracker is relevant against the scarab god. Shadowed caravel will just get abraded though.
Last edited by bruizar; 09-16-2017 at 01:52 AM.
I don't think this is true because the flip side doesn't actually _cast_ the copy (Is Isochron Scepter still the only card that does this?). So the original Approach will see that you have 'resolved' another approach this game but not actually 'cast' one.Primal Wellspring - If you can flip this, you win the game instantly after playing only one Approach of the Second Sun. The copy will go on the stack and resolve first, then you resolve the actual Approach of the Second Sun and you win the game.
I think you're right.
"Copies of spells are just placed on the stack, they are never cast. 706.10. To copy a spell or activated ability means to put a copy of it on to the stack; a copy of a spell isn't cast and a copy of an activated ability isn't activated.Oct 28, 2012"
Did you guys go deeply talking about the artifact? Information is essential and I'd be pleased to pay one mana more to Peek my opponent and Needle him.
TEAM MtG Berlin
"Dredge isn't a deck, it's public masturbation with graveyard triggers."
It is a proactive wasteland in ancient tomb decks that increases the explosiveness and density of turn 1 plays alongside chalice. The information is very relevant for ancient tomb decks because they get hosed very hard by Daze. Paying 3-4 mana and 2-4 damage to resolve a spell only to have it countered for free is a surefire way to lose a game.
If you double up on Approach the Second Sun with Sunbird's Invocation that should work.
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