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Thread: Ixalan [XLN]

  1. #41
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Wouldn't Conflux or Enter the Infinite just be better for that?
    True. I don't play Show and Tell enough to know the payoff for big free blue spells.

  2. #42

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    Yeah...if this is legit, Wizards printed a card that will always end the game in a draw if it is played on an empty board. Gonna be an errata out the gate on this one. This card is one of the few that is very in focus in the leak too, so the wording is very clear.

    GG guys.
    This actually makes me question how accurate this leak is to begin with. They've so consistently worded such cards as saying "another creature" or "another permanent" or something else that disqualifies it from exiling itself (e.g. Restoration Angel's non-Angel clause, Banishing Light's statement of it being a permanent an opponent controls) that it makes it really unlikely they'd overlook it for this card. If it's real, it makes me wonder if there might have been some planned rules adjustment that changes the way the effect works that just hasn't been announced yet.

  3. #43

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    This actually makes me question how accurate this leak is to begin with. They've so consistently worded such cards as saying "another creature" or "another permanent" or something else that disqualifies it from exiling itself (e.g. Restoration Angel's non-Angel clause, Banishing Light's statement of it being a permanent an opponent controls) that it makes it really unlikely they'd overlook it for this card. If it's real, it makes me wonder if there might have been some planned rules adjustment that changes the way the effect works that just hasn't been announced yet.
    who would go through the immense amount of work required to fake these cards. i mean what is the reward, the possibility of being sued by WotC?

  4. #44
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    This actually makes me question how accurate this leak is to begin with. They've so consistently worded such cards as saying "another creature" or "another permanent" or something else that disqualifies it from exiling itself (e.g. Restoration Angel's non-Angel clause, Banishing Light's statement of it being a permanent an opponent controls) that it makes it really unlikely they'd overlook it for this card. If it's real, it makes me wonder if there might have been some planned rules adjustment that changes the way the effect works that just hasn't been announced yet.
    Well, whoever made the picture stole an entire foil uncut sheet.

    Why is it so hard to believe that the current R&D just sucks so much that they fucked up again? Especially after missing Felidar Guardian, then dismiss banning it, just to ban emergency ban it two days later?

  5. #45
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    I'm not sure the combo works. With ORing it works, but it enters and leaves. This could easily be a rules redefinition that this ability can't target the source of it to any effect because it's a logical contradiction. If it's only exiled while it's on the battlefield, it can't enter exile itself and then trigger a leave because it's not a trigger. It's a while condition that specifically cannot be (mathematically or logically) satisfied if it targets itself.

    Remember, the second half *isn't* a trigger it's a duration, specifically a duration of '0' because the card can never both be exiled and on the battlefield at the same time. You're probably just seeing the results of Tabek debugging the game and finally putting that work into play.

    EDIT: Which is to say, the new template has been around for awhile and he probably realized that the new "duration" template takes the abuse case away because it's a logical contradiction; meaning they can stop wording it as "another."

    EDIT2: While somewhat uninteresting; this means that when you look at Banisher Priest the "leave" condition happens *when* a thing kills it; not after. So it's the same motion to have the next thing ETB as the priest dies. You can't stifle it or respond until the creature is in play; which actually could have some really interesting use cases with "As Enters" permanents like revoker
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  6. #46
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenslight View Post
    EDIT: Timmiest Combo piece ever with Stuffy Doll:

    Star of Extinction
    Sorcery (M)
    Destroy target land. ~ deals 20 damage to each creatuyre and each planeswalker.
    Or Mogg Maniac to make it a bit cheaper.

  7. #47

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Well, whoever made the picture stole an entire foil uncut sheet.

    Why is it so hard to believe that the current R&D just sucks so much that they fucked up again? Especially after missing Felidar Guardian, then dismiss banning it, just to ban emergency ban it two days later?
    Because this is dramatically different than the Felidar Guardian stuff, as it requires them to ignore their own templating they've been doing for a long time and ignore a card's interaction with itself (rather than an interaction between two different cards, one of which was probably disregarded as nothing more than Limited fodder). All the cards with this effect make a point to not allow you to exile themselves with it. It'd be like if they suddenly had a "draw a card at the beginning of the next turn's upkeep" on a card after years and years and years of having cantrips occur immediately. They've had some screwups, but I don't think they'd goof something like this up; this isn't a case of missing an interaction, this is willfully going against your own rules. If it's a real card, I fully expect that they were planning to have some rules change of some kind and it was pre-empted by this leak.

  8. #48
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Are those sheets for real or what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    How about: ramp into Deed, clear the board, and bash your opponent's head in.

  9. #49

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    There's absolutely nothing that would indicate that they are fake.

  10. #50
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Well fuck. Someone is going to get actually fucking arrested over this. I am all for knowing about something ahead of time, it's fun to know what's coming, but this feels wrong. Not even God book in New Phyrexian wrong, Wizards themselves played a part in that, as in fucking should never have happened, criminal liability levels of wrong.


    For the record, the process for leaks here is: If you have something you shouldn't and you desperately want to post it, take it elsewhere.
    If you have found something on a separate site and it's now in the wild your in the clear. I want this site to have nothing to do with Wizards looking for information on a cracked seal.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
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  11. #51
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post
    I'm not sure the combo works. With ORing it works, but it enters and leaves. This could easily be a rules redefinition that this ability can't target the source of it to any effect because it's a logical contradiction. If it's only exiled while it's on the battlefield, it can't enter exile itself and then trigger a leave because it's not a trigger. It's a while condition that specifically cannot be (mathematically or logically) satisfied if it targets itself.

    Remember, the second half *isn't* a trigger it's a duration, specifically a duration of '0' because the card can never both be exiled and on the battlefield at the same time. You're probably just seeing the results of Tabek debugging the game and finally putting that work into play.

    EDIT: Which is to say, the new template has been around for awhile and he probably realized that the new "duration" template takes the abuse case away because it's a logical contradiction; meaning they can stop wording it as "another."

    EDIT2: While somewhat uninteresting; this means that when you look at Banisher Priest the "leave" condition happens *when* a thing kills it; not after. So it's the same motion to have the next thing ETB as the priest dies. You can't stifle it or respond until the creature is in play; which actually could have some really interesting use cases with "As Enters" permanents like revoker
    This was what I started to think a little while after seeing the card and honestly I think this is the more likely answer. This is either a natural expression of the current rules, or a slight modification that makes it so they don't need to continually say "another target creature" on effects that would 99% of the time as written be directly to anything but itself anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
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    EDIT: Tsumi, you are silly.

  12. #52
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Pirates, PIIIIIIIRATES! Fuck this game.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  13. #53
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    Pirates, PIIIIIIIRATES! Fuck this game.

    rishadan cutpurse
    -rob

  14. #54

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post
    I'm not sure the combo works. With ORing it works, but it enters and leaves. This could easily be a rules redefinition that this ability can't target the source of it to any effect because it's a logical contradiction. If it's only exiled while it's on the battlefield, it can't enter exile itself and then trigger a leave because it's not a trigger. It's a while condition that specifically cannot be (mathematically or logically) satisfied if it targets itself. ...
    Check out the gatherer rulings on Aligned Hedron Network.

  15. #55
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Check out the gatherer rulings on Aligned Hedron Network.
    I'm kind of hoping that it's more of a signal that they're closing this particular kind of loop because in the case of a single card printing it feels fucking weird to always have to put "exile another target thing" just so you're not printing creatures that aren't able to be played on an empty board, or something?

    Like.. it's not exactly the same, but like with counterspells, it's just a rule of the game that it can't target itself when you're declaring targets even though it's technically already on the stack, right -- so maybe there's some weird shift in the rules coming that makes creatures work in a similar kind of way? Like maybe they aren't actually "all the way in play" until all their abilities resolve? But maybe that just breaks Gating, I mean I don't know. It just seems like a really weird syntactic error if it really is some kind of durdly one-card combo with itself that just happens to draw the game. Then again I guess they went ahead and printed Marath not very long ago, so maybe anything's possible and I have no idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
    Creature type - 'Fuck you mooooooom'
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    EDIT: Tsumi, you are silly.

  16. #56

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    I'm kind of hoping that it's more of a signal that they're closing this particular kind of loop because in the case of a single card printing it feels fucking weird to always have to put "exile another target thing" just so you're not printing creatures that aren't able to be played on an empty board, or something?

    Like.. it's not exactly the same, but like with counterspells, it's just a rule of the game that it can't target itself when you're declaring targets even though it's technically already on the stack, right -- so maybe there's some weird shift in the rules coming that makes creatures work in a similar kind of way? Like maybe they aren't actually "all the way in play" until all their abilities resolve? But maybe that just breaks Gating, I mean I don't know. It just seems like a really weird syntactic error if it really is some kind of durdly one-card combo with itself that just happens to draw the game. Then again I guess they went ahead and printed Marath not very long ago, so maybe anything's possible and I have no idea.
    That sounds hard to do. What, are we going to rule that permenants cannot be the target of their own effect? Just imagine how many cards get absolutely wrecked by that kind of rule. I can't imagine they would do this.

    I think we've got precedent for this just being a mistake.

  17. #57
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    There's a big difference between pirates as a feature and "Pirates, PIIIIRATES!"

    Still no goddamned Return to Sarpadian Empires.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  18. #58

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Well fuck. Someone is going to get actually fucking arrested over this. I am all for knowing about something ahead of time, it's fun to know what's coming, but this feels wrong. Not even God book in New Phyrexian wrong, Wizards themselves played a part in that, as in fucking should never have happened, criminal liability levels of wrong.
    They've caught and arrested who did it? Who? Where?

  19. #59

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    This was what I started to think a little while after seeing the card and honestly I think this is the more likely answer. This is either a natural expression of the current rules, or a slight modification that makes it so they don't need to continually say "another target creature" on effects that would 99% of the time as written be directly to anything but itself anyway.
    Doesn't the card just exile itself, come into play, exile itself, come into play, and the caster needs to choose when to end the loop? Also, doesn't this just give you infinite life with Essence Warden?

    New 2-card combo with any CiP effect? Infi damage on Pandemonium, etc? Is this the worse case scenario for the card, a 2UB creature that gives infinite life with Essence Warden? If so, please sign me up.

    edit: Can someone please confirm this shit please? If it's infinite ETB triggers but I can't draw the game. This creature is an entire new archetype in itself if so, and a potentially powerful one at that as it's a fairly simple A+B combo.

  20. #60
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumC View Post
    That sounds hard to do. What, are we going to rule that permenants cannot be the target of their own effect? Just imagine how many cards get absolutely wrecked by that kind of rule. I can't imagine they would do this.

    I think we've got precedent for this just being a mistake.
    I'll be honest I'm just spitballing. It may even be the case that I need to believe that they wouldn't screw up THIS bad, because this kind of wording on this effect is almost in the ballpark of printing a creature without power and toughness
    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
    Creature type - 'Fuck you mooooooom'
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    EDIT: Tsumi, you are silly.

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