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Thread: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

  1. #41

    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by hovercraft View Post
    Anyone have a decklist for either of Jund Loam players? Is it something like Jund Depths or more like Aggro-Loam?
    I'm not sure about Besta, Kevin, but I played against Sacks, Neal he was playing traditional DRS, Bob, Goyf, BBE, Lili Jund.

  2. #42
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    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by hovercraft View Post
    Anyone have a decklist for either of Jund Loam players? Is it something like Jund Depths or more like Aggro-Loam?
    I don't, but Kennen Haas have been playing Jund Depths for a long ass time, and it might be this list then:

    http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=113746

  3. #43

    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by IAmWill View Post
    I'm not sure about Besta, Kevin, but I played against Sacks, Neal he was playing traditional DRS, Bob, Goyf, BBE, Lili Jund.
    Okay cool thanks! Did you see any Loam?

  4. #44

    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by hovercraft View Post
    Anyone have a decklist for either of Jund Loam players? Is it something like Jund Depths or more like Aggro-Loam?
    Both decks I mentioned on Reddit do not contain any Dark Depths packages, both were Punishing variants.
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  5. #45

    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by bradleyjx View Post
    Both decks I mentioned on Reddit do not contain any Dark Depths packages, both were Punishing variants.
    So we're talking about Jund midrange and not 4C Loam?

  6. #46

    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    I'm crossing my fingers for countryside crusher and terravore loam. The real tier 0.

  7. #47
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    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    My impression was that Lion's Eye Diamond had a pretty good Day 2 conversion rate, but apparently it had an abysmal Day 2 to Top 64 conversion rate.
    "I'm willing to imagine a TES where Past in Flames replaces Ill-Gotten Gains entirely, and we just don't play Diminishing Returns." - me, 29/09/2011
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  8. #48

    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by Griselpuff View Post
    So we're talking about Jund midrange and not 4C Loam?
    Yeah seems like Punishing Jund. Could still have 1 or 2 Loam in the 75 but not the main game plan.

  9. #49
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    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by thefringthing View Post
    My impression was that Lion's Eye Diamond had a pretty good Day 2 conversion rate, but apparently it had an abysmal Day 2 to Top 64 conversion rate.
    This sort of thing happens a lot. It is actually a function of the way that a tournament will progress, not an Abby Normal event.

    Given:

    a large enough tournament
    even skill level
    a variety of decks

    The distribution of decks making up the top cohort will cycle as rounds are played. Some decks aren't good enough to be in the cycle, so they fall away as rounds pass.

    If deck A is the largest component of the cohort now, it will not be after a number of rounds, then it becomes the largest part of the cohort again several rounds later if it belongs in the cycle.

    There can be instances of stability, but they don't tend to occur naturally. Something along the lines of having 5 decks with exactly the same win probability to the field strangling out the other decks.

    I had a bit of fun about 10 years ago with an excel model and these were some of the findings.

  10. #50

    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    Small correction 50th place kevin besta was on punishing jund.

  11. #51
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    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    I could be wrong but top 64 looks much less diverse post top banning.
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  12. #52
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    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by hymnyou View Post
    I could be wrong but top 64 looks much less diverse post top banning.
    I'm very much enjoying the post-Top world, but this stretch of decks is pretty embarrassing:

    25 Bogucki, Woodrow [US] BUG Delver
    26 Ogawa, Satoshi [JP] 4C Loam
    27 Dominguez, Javier [ES] Hymn BUG Delver
    28 Li, Richard [CA] Grixis Delver
    29 Graves, Robert [US] Elves
    30 (5) Duke, Reid [US] Elves
    31 Huschenbeth, Arne [DE] BUG Delver
    32 Phraner, Ryan [US] Grixis Delver
    33 Eliatamby, Charles [XE] Grixis Delver
    34 Huynh, Anthony [US] BUG Delver
    35 Stoute, Terry [US] Grixis Delver

  13. #53
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    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by hymnyou View Post
    I could be wrong but top 64 looks much less diverse post top banning.
    I disagree completely. There is clearly not an oppressive force. Delver's total share (31% of top 16) seems about right given the number of people who play it. The top 64 is also all people who did roughly as well as one another (within a single point for most of them) so we're splitting hairs.

    7 deck arches in the top 8 and 9-10 in the top 16. That's not bad at all. And nothing in the top 64 says "You have to run colors X and Y to fight deck X" which is big. In terms of color diversity we see UBgr, UWGb, UWr, BUG, RUG, BUR, GRB, GB, UW, UR, UB, UG, <>, W, G, U

    I think the only things missing that people play are GBW, BW(g), B, R; which aside from Burn, make up like.. 8% of the meta or something ridiculous and it's not surprising that these decks who's best consistency engines are Bob, Library, Guile, GSZ, or Oath of Nissa stacked on top of grindy-CA plans don't pan out in 14 rounds or w/e.

    I think that's pretty good. We see grave strats, dude-strats, control strats of both the Miracles, D&T, and the 4-color style, combo in various forms (UR, BUG, depths), and we see FOUR competing Delver archtypes represented; which is awesome. We only know that Tempo works; no indication that a single Tempo is dominating out of them; especially given the fringe numbers RUG or UR were experiencing by comparison to Grixis or even BUG.

    Even after 14 rounds we see a blown-open meta IMO; and on top of that? We see Elves, Grixis, D&T, and TNN strats alive despite people expecting it; which means I don't think we're going to see a clear downfall of these decks soon. It feels like all the waiting has produced, IMO, more evidence that Legacy is the most open it's been in the 5-6 years I've been in the format.
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  14. #54
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    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by hymnyou View Post
    I could be wrong but top 64 looks much less diverse post top banning.
    Top 32 from each GP


    Grand Prix Louisville
    ======================
    7 Miracle Control
    6 Sneak Attack
    3 Team America
    3 4C Delver
    2 Reanimator
    2 Grixis Pyromancer
    2 Infect
    1 BUG True-Name
    1 Death and Taxes
    1 Lands
    1 Food Chain
    1 UGR Threshold
    1 4c Control
    1 Dark Depths


    Grand Prix Las Vegas
    =====================
    5 Grixis Pyromancer
    3 Elves
    3 Team America
    2 Blade Control
    2 Neo-Miracles
    2 Sneak Attack
    2 Lands
    2 4C Control
    1 Grixis Control
    1 Reanimator
    1 Death and Taxes
    1 UR Burn
    1 UGR Threshold
    1 DeathBlade
    1 BUG Control
    1 Dark Depths
    1 Aluren
    1 Infect
    1 4C Loam
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  15. #55
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    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    Not sure if I am supposed to be impressed here, but looks a little better.
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  16. #56
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    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    People sometimes find so-called "card breakdowns" (ie, how many of each card there were) useful. Without the lists, we can't make a 100% accurate breakdown but with the deck names, we can certainly make an educated guess.

    So here you go: http://lonestarlhurgoyfs.com/2017-06...ard-Breakdown/

    Don't complain to me about methodology. I do not care. I made this because I was bored and thought it might provide useful or interesting information.
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  17. #57
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    Re: GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

    Seems like I jumped the gun a little and we're still missing

    63 Pecora, Gerald [US]

    If anyone has any leads, please let us know. Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

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