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Thread: [Deck] Two Green

  1. #1

    [Deck] Two Green

    First off, this is flat out @Barook's idea. I'm just posting it because I came up with the awesome name - and I really love the concept. The name references the casting cost of the main spells in the deck. 2G.

    The basic idea is to use Ranumap Excavator and Azusa, Lost but Seeking to pull off complete land annihilation on your opponent, while slowing them down with lock pieces.

    So, here's a tentative list and some thoughts on it. Totally still developing, so feel free to share ideas and comments.

    Creatures (17)
    4x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
    4x Ranumap Excavator
    4x Tireless Tracker
    4x Elvish Spirit Guide
    1x Wurmcoil Engine

    Search/Filter (10)
    3x Sylvan Library
    3x Realms Uncharted
    4x Green Sun's Zenith

    Artifacts (8)
    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x Mox Diamond

    Lands (25)
    4x Ancient Tomb
    3x City of Traitors
    4x Wasteland
    1x Ghost Quarter
    4x Forest
    1x Verdant Catacombs
    1x Misty Rainforest
    1x Windswept Heath
    1x Wooded Foothills
    1x Dryad Arbor
    1x Thespian's Stage
    1x Dark Depths
    1x Inventor's Fair
    1x Horizon Canopy

    Sideboard
    3x Krosan Grip
    4x Trinisphere
    4x Obstinate Baloth
    4x Ravenous Trap

    I'm honestly not sure 4x Wasteland is the right call since the deck just plans to re-use the same lands over and over again. Replaced some of what would normally be basics with fetches to take advantage of Ranumap, Sylvan Library, and Tireless Tracker. Realms Uncharted is a bit of a wildcard, but it's a shuffle, it gets you a lot of lands, you're not super picky about whether or not they're in your hand or GY, and it lets you run some sweet singleton/combos, like the Stage/DD, Horizon Canopy, and Inventor's Fair. Decklist probably needs a Thragtusk or something maindeck for lifegain alongside the Wurmcoil Engine. With Inventor's Fair, adding a single Crucible of Worlds as a backup might be a good idea, but maybe just in the sideboard. Kind of feel like some Smuggler's Copter or Trinisphere, maybe Thorn of Amethyst.

    Anyway, like I said, credit for the idea goes to Barook. I'm just trying to sketch out what a decklist might look like. 11 shuffles might not be enough for Library, but Realms pulls a massive 4 lands from your deck, and the longer the game goes, the thicker the GSZ's pile up in your deck.
    Last edited by morgan_coke; 06-27-2017 at 04:11 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    this deck is going to want some non-zero number of loam.
    -rob

  3. #3

    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    Volrath's Stronghold or Haunted Fengraf (to stay mono green) seems it could be good to keep up your creatures.

    If you want mainboard lifegain, just use Courser of Kruphix.

    If you can maintain positive land count with a consistent Azusa, Rishaden Port or Tabernacle would be useful, especially since with Tabernacle you could get to flawless victory state. It's also the tits against Pyromancers. Delver decks just shut down when they get hit with a Tabernacle trigger.
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  4. #4

    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    this deck is going to want some non-zero number of loam.
    No, it really doesn't. Crucible and Loam deck both recur lands from the graveyard, but they work on fundamentally different axes.

  5. #5

    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    I'm planning on attempting something similar but with Trinisphere and Smokestack. Possibly Bridge as well - though I'm unsure about how that dynamic would play out.

  6. #6

    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    Quote Originally Posted by square_two View Post
    I'm planning on attempting something similar but with Trinisphere and Smokestack. Possibly Bridge as well - though I'm unsure about how that dynamic would play out.
    I've been testing something with Stack, Armageddon, Exploration, and the creature package in the OP plus Renegade Rallier and BoP. Nut draw is turn two Smokestack, turn three Geddon resulting in a scoop. I'm not really sure if this is anything but a casual deck though. It's hell of a lot of fun either way!

  7. #7
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    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    Posted this in the Sylvan Plug thread before, but the list is probably too different to be in the same deck:

    3 City of Traitors
    3 Wasteland
    4 Ancient Tomb
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Karakas
    1 Bayou
    2 Savannah
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Forest
    1 Misty Rainforest

    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere
    2 Umezawa's Jitte

    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Reclamation Sage
    2 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
    3 Ramunap Excavator
    2 Tireless Tracker
    1 Courser of Kruphix
    1 Knight of the Reliquary
    1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

    1 Sylvan Library
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Living Wish

    Sideboard: 14/15
    1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
    1 Tireless Tracker
    1 Ramunap Excavator
    1 Faerie Macabre
    1 Thought-Knot Seer
    1 Minister of Pain
    1 Walking Ballista
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Wasteland
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Karakas
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Containment Priest
    1 open slot

    This list is purely theorycrafted without actual testing against an opponent yet (still waiting for the Cockatrice update).

    Living Wish is there for more consistency and to fetch the missing combo pieces. There are so many cards that could be included, so proper testing needs to be done what actually sticks.

    I reallly like the idea of Tabernacle as tutor target - destroying all their lands into Tabernacle should do a proper clean-up job against anything they could throw against you, including TNN.

    Side note: DRS probably doesn't fit the deck (nonbo with Chalice @1 and you don't want to exile your precious lands). Jitte might also be less stellar since most of the creatures aren't really good attackers. That might clear up some room for other stuff.

  8. #8

    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    If you want to make a green prison deck, I also would suggest Smokestack. Too sad Braids, Cabal Minion isn't green, and BB is heavy for a splash...^^
    Anyway for a prison deck, Trinisphere and is a must for the mainboard.
    Further I'm not sold for Realms Uncharted, true it finds lands, but seems rather slow. Needs to be tested...

  9. #9
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    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    Quote Originally Posted by P210 View Post
    If you want to make a green prison deck, I also would suggest Smokestack. Too sad Braids, Cabal Minion isn't green, and BB is heavy for a splash...^^
    Anyway for a prison deck, Trinisphere and is a must for the mainboard.
    Further I'm not sold for Realms Uncharted, true it finds lands, but seems rather slow. Needs to be tested...
    Smokestack is slow and seems kinda meh without the CoW Naga.

    I might cut the splash for Black, DRS and the Jitte for a second main deck KotR, a Horizon Canopy and a Tabernacle, with a Tabernacle and KotR in the wish board slots, maybe even a Canopy in the wish board for mana fixing/getting a draw engine online with Naga.

  10. #10

    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Smokestack is slow and seems kinda meh without the CoW Naga.

    I might cut the splash for Black, DRS and the Jitte for a second main deck KotR, a Horizon Canopy and a Tabernacle, with a Tabernacle and KotR in the wish board slots, maybe even a Canopy in the wish board for mana fixing/getting a draw engine online with Naga.
    Why should someone play it without the Naga? You need something to break the symmetry, usually Crucible of Worlds or a token generator. In a green shell we would have the Naga which is tutorable via Green Sun's Zenith. No idea if it's worth it. But you need something to get rid of other permanents than lands, and lands if Wasteland is not drawn.

    I don't think Tabernacle is a good idea, since many of our nonland permanents are creatures...

    Edit: Ticking up Smokestack up to 2-3 counters should be fun with Azusa, Lost but Seeking...^^

  11. #11

    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    I really like the Living Wish idea. If you're going to go with Tutors, go all out. But I still like Realms Uncharted. Also, I'm not sure that KotR really does anything worth doing. The more I think about it, the more I think any heavy non-green splash might be a bad idea. Green/Colorless/White is basically a three color deck already, but given Karakas and Horizon Canopy, it's an exceptionally easy one to pull off. I also really like the idea of making this more of a "stompy 5c Eternal Garden" type deck. So maybe something like:

    Lands
    4x Ancient Tomb
    2x City of Traitors
    3x Wasteland
    1x Ghost Quarter
    1x Karakas
    1x Dryad Arbor
    1x Horizon Canopy
    1x Sea Gate Wreckage
    1x Misty Rainforest
    1x Windswept Heath
    1x Verdant Catacombs
    1x Wooded Foothills
    1x Nomad Stadium
    1x Savannah

    Basic Lands
    3x Forest
    2x Snow Covered Forest

    Artifacts
    4x Mox Diamond
    4x Chalice of the Void
    3x Trinisphere

    Removal
    3x Spatial Distortion

    Draw/Tutor
    3x Living Wish
    4x Green Sun's Zenith
    3x Realms Uncharted
    2x Sylvan Library

    Creatures
    3x Ranumap Excavator
    2x Asuza, Lost but Seeking
    1x Reclamation Sage
    1x Tireless Tracker
    1x Obstinate Baloth
    1x Scavenging Ooze

    Sideboard
    Wish Targets
    1x Ranumap Excavator
    1x Asuza, Lost but Seeking
    1x Reclamation Sage
    1x Loaming Shaman
    1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    1x Wasteland

    Regular Board
    1x Glacial Chasm
    1x Dark Depths
    1x Thespian's Stage
    3x Obstinate Baloth
    3x Beast Within

    I really like Nomad Stadium as a recurring source of lifegain. Not sure if Spatial Distortion will be worth it or not, but it's a removal spell in our "colors" that dodges Chalice, and kills most early threats. Big fan of Tabernacle+LD and 3sphere. Maybe Sea Gate Wreckage should be Inventor's Fair? The board section of "wish targets" gives you your combo pieces, graveyard hate, artifact/enchant removal, and a solution to creatures, which is about as good as you're going to do with it. I guess Revoker is also an option if you feel like the need to wish for a 'walker answer is necessary.

  12. #12
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    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    I really like the Living Wish idea. If you're going to go with Tutors, go all out. But I still like Realms Uncharted. Also, I'm not sure that KotR really does anything worth doing. The more I think about it, the more I think any heavy non-green splash might be a bad idea. Green/Colorless/White is basically a three color deck already, but given Karakas and Horizon Canopy, it's an exceptionally easy one to pull off.

    I really like Nomad Stadium as a recurring source of lifegain. Not sure if Spatial Distortion will be worth it or not, but it's a removal spell in our "colors" that dodges Chalice, and kills most early threats. Big fan of Tabernacle+LD and 3sphere. Maybe Sea Gate Wreckage should be Inventor's Fair? The board section of "wish targets" gives you your combo pieces, graveyard hate, artifact/enchant removal, and a solution to creatures, which is about as good as you're going to do with it. I guess Revoker is also an option if you feel like the need to wish for a 'walker answer is necessary.
    Revoker also disables DRS.

    I'm not sold on Sea Gate Wreckage - it just seems so expensive and clunky when Horizon Canopy and Tracker provide much better draw engines.

    When building the deck, we should keep the following things in mind, as they might be problematic:

    - Graveyard hate, especially DRS
    - Delver
    - TNN
    - the high self-inflicted life loss from Tomb, Canopy and repeated fetchlands activations
    - the need of proper creature removal

    I'm eager to see how good Tabernacle is at handling creatures once online testing is possible.

    Random side note:
    I just realized Tireless Tracker can provide extra permanents to sac for Smockstack. Saccing the clues this way provides a free way to pump Tracker due to the way its worded. That might be interesting for people who want to pursue a Smokestack route and gives an alternative to break the symmetry aside from Excavator. While I'm not a fan of Smokestack personally, I encourage testing different builds to maximize our chance to find the good stuff.

    Edit:
    With access to KotR and a Living Wish board, why don't we run the Grove of the Burnwillows/Punishing Fire? It would make dealing with Planeswalkers and those pesky creatures much easier. Red mana shouldn't be a problem and I don't think that we give a shit about their life totals since the end goal is depriving them of their ability to play Magic. I admit that 3sphere and PF is a bit of a nonbo, though. Bonus points for throwing in Kavu Predator for shit and giggles.

  13. #13
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    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Revoker also disables DRS.

    Edit:
    With access to KotR and a Living Wish board, why don't we run the Grove of the Burnwillows/Punishing Fire? It would make dealing with Planeswalkers and those pesky creatures much easier. Red mana shouldn't be a problem and I don't think that we give a shit about their life totals since the end goal is depriving them of their ability to play Magic. I admit that 3sphere and PF is a bit of a nonbo, though. Bonus points for throwing in Kavu Predator for shit and giggles.
    at some point you are doing TOO much. In doing so it breaks apart the decks central focus and actually becomes weaker. I think doing so with grove would start to turn the deck into a bag version or RG lands / Aggro Loam.
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  14. #14

    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    I recall Spawnwrithe can take games over very quickly and fits the CC theme. I'm also a little surprised by the lack of Elvish Spirit Guides in the later lists.

  15. #15
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    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    at some point you are doing TOO much. In doing so it breaks apart the decks central focus and actually becomes weaker. I think doing so with grove would start to turn the deck into a bag version or RG lands / Aggro Loam.
    Yeah, I came to the same conclusion after trying it out. I'm probably running a few MD Ballistas instead. Stilll trying to figure out how I could squeeze more removal in aside from Ballista.

    Edit: Maybe something Polukranos (very expensive) or Ulvenwald Tracker (bad on its own, clashes with Chalice @1 when drawn) as GSZ targets. In terms of grindiness, Master of the Wild Hunt would probably be the best pick.

    @rufus: Space is premium and Mox Diamond fits the theme better due to land discard and being able to provide a permanent, multi-colored mana source. I don't miss ESG which is also a bad topdeck.
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  16. #16

    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Edit: Maybe something Polukranos (very expensive) or Ulvenwald Tracker (bad on its own, clashes with Chalice @1 when drawn) as GSZ targets. In terms of grindiness, Master of the Wild Hunt would probably be the best pick.
    I've used both Master of the Wild Hunt and Ulvenwald Tracker in green stax decks before, and both were always killed on sight by opponents if they were able to do so. When they fail to find removal, both can dominate the game very effectively. I'd lean towards Master.
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  17. #17
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    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Yeah, I came to the same conclusion after trying it out. I'm probably running a few MD Ballistas instead. Stilll trying to figure out how I could squeeze more removal in aside from Ballista.

    Edit: Maybe something Polukranos (very expensive) or Ulvenwald Tracker (bad on its own, clashes with Chalice @1 when drawn) as GSZ targets. In terms of grindiness, Master of the Wild Hunt would probably be the best pick.

    @rufus: Space is premium and Mox Diamond fits the theme better due to land discard and being able to provide a permanent, multi-colored mana source. I don't miss ESG which is also a bad topdeck.
    What is it that you are trying to remove? Maybe you dont need to remove it and can do one of the following. Overpower it, race it, gain life through it, or prevent damage.

    Also, Glacial chasm should be in the deck certainly as a 1 of. Considering you dont need to pay its upkeep cost ever.

    ground seal seems like it should be somewhere in the list becuase of your concern of removal and necessity to recur from the graveyard. It is two sided and will help your opponent.

    If you are really trying to TAX your opponent, ideally you'd want more white than anything because of whites overwhelming ability to tax your opponents resources (see Death & TAXES). There are several resources the deck (D&T) doesn't use because its more aggro than prison control.
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  18. #18

    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    Just spent some time going through the old 5c Eternal Garden thread looking at the debates and decklists it had. One thing I noticed is that creature based plans pretty much folded to The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale+Glacial Chasm. The other thing was that the deck used lots of colored mana and tried to beat combo/tempo by bringing in Chalices+3Spheres. Obviously, just mainboarding those and 2 mana lands with fewer colors is a better plan vs. the field.

    So I think we want to look at around 25-27 lands given that Tabernacle and Chasm don't produce mana. It's also worth noting that Tomb does Damage, which Chasm stops.

    Also, what are peoples thoughts on Crystal Vein vs. City of Traitors? City is more explosive early, but Vein doesn't hinder our development quite as much.

    What do you guys think of something like this as a manabase:

    4x Ancient Tomb
    3x City of Traitors
    3x Wasteland
    1x Glacial Chasm
    1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    1x Karakas
    1x Horizon Canopy
    1x Nomad Stadium
    1x Ghost Quarter
    1x Savannah
    3x Forest
    2x Snow-Covered Forest
    4x G/x Fetchlands
    1x Dryad Arbor

    That's 27 lands, which after the base 11 artifacts (4 Mox/Chalice, 3 3sphere) leaves us 22 slots for tutors and duders. Say 12 tutors/draw spells (4 GSZ, 8 Library/Realms/Wish) and 10 dudes (5 combo, 2-3 tracker, couple targets)

    This gives the deck a plan vs. swarm: Tabernacle, vs. combo/tempo: 3sphere/chalice, vs. burn: chasm/stadium That seems like a couple of pretty strong plans vs. the vast majority of the field. Thoughts? Stuff I'm overlooking?

  19. #19
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    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    So Stax with tutors? Colour me intersted. I like that idea a lot.

    Issues I can see from playing Stax, you do not have a way to force through damage after a board is flooded. Say with a young Pyro. For Stax that is not an issue because you put down Bridge and then Tabernacle, but you are looking to find other ways of doing that. (For the builds that do not have access to Tab.) I think you have a great idea to start with otherwise. I love the idea of somehow fitting Gitrog in here, even if he does not fit.

    As a Lands player, Tracker, in multiples, is a fucking train wreck for the other guy. When you start cracking clues and then building massive fuckers that must be answered, that is great fun. I would suggest having one in the side if your going to Wish as well. Tracker lets you get away with losing your Graveyard to something like a RIP by powering though it.

    I might mess around with this as a more "Stax with Tutors" idea. I like it.
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  20. #20
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    Re: [Deck] Two Green

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Just spent some time going through the old 5c Eternal Garden thread looking at the debates and decklists it had. One thing I noticed is that creature based plans pretty much folded to The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale+Glacial Chasm. The other thing was that the deck used lots of colored mana and tried to beat combo/tempo by bringing in Chalices+3Spheres. Obviously, just mainboarding those and 2 mana lands with fewer colors is a better plan vs. the field.

    So I think we want to look at around 25-27 lands given that Tabernacle and Chasm don't produce mana. It's also worth noting that Tomb does Damage, which Chasm stops.

    Also, what are peoples thoughts on Crystal Vein vs. City of Traitors? City is more explosive early, but Vein doesn't hinder our development quite as much.

    What do you guys think of something like this as a manabase:

    4x Ancient Tomb
    3x City of Traitors
    3x Wasteland
    1x Glacial Chasm
    1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    1x Karakas
    1x Horizon Canopy
    1x Nomad Stadium
    1x Ghost Quarter
    1x Savannah
    3x Forest
    2x Snow-Covered Forest
    4x G/x Fetchlands
    1x Dryad Arbor

    That's 27 lands, which after the base 11 artifacts (4 Mox/Chalice, 3 3sphere) leaves us 22 slots for tutors and duders. Say 12 tutors/draw spells (4 GSZ, 8 Library/Realms/Wish) and 10 dudes (5 combo, 2-3 tracker, couple targets)

    This gives the deck a plan vs. swarm: Tabernacle, vs. combo/tempo: 3sphere/chalice, vs. burn: chasm/stadium That seems like a couple of pretty strong plans vs. the vast majority of the field. Thoughts? Stuff I'm overlooking?
    I like the idea of Chasm, especially sitting behind it and building up a huge Ballista to snipe your opponent to death. But with we want to go with the recursive plan for it, dealing with GY hate is mandatory. And DRS' lifeloss can still get around this plan.

    Crystal Vein is worth testing.

    I'm not really sold on Nomad Stadium, at least in my variant of the deck, as it would have trouble to reach threshold by itself.
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