So far, after a quick look at a couple of pages back, I've been playing with this list:
4 Wish
4 Act on Impulse
1 Reforge the Soul
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury
1 Gamble
2 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Rite of Flame
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Ruby Medallion
2 Helm of Awakening
11 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
SB:
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Reforge the Soul
1 By Force
1 Goblin War Strike
1 Past in Flames
1 Gamble
1 Cave In
1 Hull Breach
3 Defense Grid
2 Scrab-Clan Berserker
It served me well back then, but now I see a lot of people playing the fourth Rite of Flame SB and a couple of Bonus Rounds. Is the RoF SB really that important? I can see it being decent with Bonus Round, and that's the reason it's in there?
So Yes this is a punnisher card, but hear me out:
So if we cast this off of a bonus round and making a lot of mana, they can't let us draw 6 and then 6 off the jump start, that would be insane. But if you deal 8 then 8, that's also a whole bunch of damage, and that's only off of one Bonus Round and one Risk Factor.
Yes it's less good on it's own before a bonus round, but is it that much worse than other pre combo cards?
This might be worth testing out.
Bonus round makes this way more powerful than it would be normally. Also reducing it's casting costs is powerful and something this deck is doing already.
It's the same as browbeat, but with flashback. If I were to try a list, it would be with 4 of this, 4 browbeat, 4 bolt, 4 bonus round.
-rob
Has anyone tried a heavy Grapeshot maindeck list with Bonus Round yet? I was thinking 4x Bonus Round, 3x Grapeshot (4th in the wishboard.) It might not be lethal, but it could generate enough value to keep the board clear or take a sizable chunk out of the opponent's life total. Spreading it out over a couple turns seems fine, considering that's often what needs to be done anyways.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
grapeshot doesn't work very well with bonus round. it will not trigger an additional storm. (up to you whether you still think it's worth it, i don't think the value is good enough)
this one looks sweet. dunno how good it is, but seems really cool, also incentivizes fetch lands quite a bit.
-rob
Seems really good with LED, honestly. EDIT: Oops, I thought it allowed cards in the graveyard to be played. THAT would be bonkers.
Has anyone seen the Mizzix's Mastery + Dragonstorm deck yet? You get a DStorm for only 4 mana if you can bin it with Faithless Looting/Tormenting Voice. (Yes storm triggers, you are casting the copy.)
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
It's still good but doesn't pair well with Reforge or manamorphose.
That dragonstorm list is pretty old. It's fine, but I think it's a different deck than this one.
Storm does not trigger with copies. They are being placed directly on the stack.
-rob
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
no i was referencing something completely different. when you use bonus round and get a copy, that copy does not trigger storm.
i was referencing your comment here, "Mr. Safety
Has anyone tried a heavy Grapeshot maindeck list with Bonus Round yet? I was thinking 4x Bonus Round, 3x Grapeshot (4th in the wishboard.) It might not be lethal, but it could generate enough value to keep the board clear or take a sizable chunk out of the opponent's life total. Spreading it out over a couple turns seems fine, considering that's often what needs to be done anyways."
so if you cast something like
seething song, seething song, bonus round, grapeshot.
storm will trigger and bonus round will trigger. when both resolve you'll have a total of 4 copies, + the original = 5 damage.
unrelated, mizzix mastery does cast the spell (dragonstorm most of the time), so storm will trigger in that case.
-rob
Ok thanks! I just figured mini-chains with Bonus Round (not doubling Grapeshot, just doubling rituals/engine pieces) could make Grapeshot into a value card rather than a one-turn win. One strength of Ruby Storm is that it actually scales up the later the game goes, rather than the other way around for TES/ANT. I'm not saying we can go forever, but rebuilding with a single Ritual into Past in Flames can be game over. I can also see the value in casting 2 Grapeshots as a way to double it up in a turn, something that Modern storm does all the time.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
that's true. i've tried it and overall it depends on the meta. grapeshot into pif into flashback grapeshot is a thing as well. i think i'd rather run empty over grapeshot if i want another maindeck storm spell though.
-rob
If we can mitigate the problem of lands being on top of the deck..the new enchantment could be a solid engine. What are ways to do so? Draw cards/looting? Shuffle or potential self mill. And if it's worthwhile wwe blow it up and unlock the hand. Given that it's play we can play a land per turn off the library. This has to be worth building around right?
First thing that comes to mind is Mana Severance. But I'm a bit skeptical about the enchantment simply because you'd have to build around it to make full use of it, and being dependent on specific cards translates into extra vulnerability. Being reliant on Ruby is enough IMO. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but those are my thoughts for the moment.
i like the enchantment but not having access to draws off of manamorphose and reforge can be a bit rough. 4 mana is also not the easiest when there's not an immediate payoff (unless if you manage to chain a bunch of rituals off the top).
i think it can be tested, and discarded if it sucks.
-rob
deck looks to be getting some gametime.
UR version was streamed the other night by togores and it was pretty nice to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAOs...utu.be&t=1m51s
also i've been working on the mono red version. i still like sandstone needles, but noticed how togores got stuck a bit on hands with just ancient tombs and kept them instead of mulliganning. for UR you have ponder and brainstorm, but red is sort of screwed.
i think scroll rack could be a legit answer here. also a singleton magma jet as a filtering mechanism, could just run another ritual, an led, an empty, or whatever. with 4 miracles maindeck it's not the worst option.
// 60 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
2 Scroll Rack
// 13 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Magma Jet
// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mountain
2 Arid Mesa
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
// 23 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Reforge the Soul
4 Bonus Round
4 Act on Impulse
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury
// 15 Sideboard
// 5 Artifact
SB: 3 Defense Grid
SB: 2 Silent Gravestone
// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Abrade
// 8 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
Something like turn 1 ancient tomb, turn 2 land pass. On their end step tap tomb, scroll rack a miracle on top, cast manamorphose and start your turn 3 with mtn, tomb + rack + 8 cards.
-rob
That is what I use Faithless Looting for.
I tested yesterdayevening with this list:
// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
// 11 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Brainstorm
// 15 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
3 Volcanic Island
// 22 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
1 Act on Impulse
3 Reforge the Soul
4 Bonus Round
4 Ponder
Sideboard:
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
1 Hull Breach
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens
3 Defense Grid
2 Silent Gravestone
1 Past in Flames
1 Shattering Spree
2 Abrade
1 Rite of Flame
This list is an almost exact copy of mistercakes his list of 9-12-18, only with a couple of adaptations in the sideboard. There are just too many Eidolons, Nether Voids and other enchantments in my metagame (in testing and in tournaments) that I like to run one enchantment-removal card and this is Hull Breach for me. I have to refine the sideboard a bit more because it has too many loose pieces. With that said, I really do like the blue splash in the deck. I feel that it makes the deck more dense and easier to combo off. It's also easier to set up a combo turn and cards like Ponder just do more for less mana than their red counterparts. I tested against Miracles, Nic Fit and Grixis Control. Being able to filter cards felt a lot strong and there were less moments that I was hoping to topdeck good, while the deck had the same gameplan.
I can't say if the blue splash is definitely better because it's obviously worse against Wasteland-decks and LED is worse with Ponder and Brainstorm than it is with AoI. It does have more upside than downside for me now so I'll continue testing with it. Next time I'll probably have the same MB but a different SB, it needs another Defense Grid with 3 Reforges MB because it's too easy to walk into a counterspell if you don't have the fourth while wheeling your hand a couple of times.
If you're not going to run 4 AoI, I would recommend not running led.
Here's the advantages of LED from my experience with the deck.
1) Great with Burning Wish
2) Act on Impulse
3) Past in Flames (also helps with awkward hands like Tomb, Ruby, LED, LED, PIF, Reforge. (not great but still is a potential turn 2)
4) Reforge the Soul.
5) Gets extra value with Bonus Round as you can tap out completely for an Act on Impulse and you have a lot more outs (X lotus petals, Y LED's).
Advantage of Desperate Ritual over LED.
1) Does have flashback
2) +RR with Ruby out and can cast other cards from hand.
3) Seething Song + Bonus Round + Desperate Ritual is a very large amount of mana.
4) Can help start your mana curve out a turn sooner to cast Seething Song.
Act on Impulse is the main real argument to play LED over Desperate Ritual, but if you are playing the cantrip version, it might be better to just cut it all together. (Mostly because you have more consistency to find a Bonus Round.)
I'd also recommend running the playset of Reforge, whether you are playing 4/0 or 3/1. (Wheel of Fortune is banned for a reason.)
as much as i like sandstone needle, i want to try out some fetches with scroll rack. it could be that the mana configuration can go back to the needles (4 tomb, 4 needle, 6 mtn), but will like to test this a bit more. the 3/3 split on desperate and led is a compromise, but might be worth further exploration.
// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
1 Scroll Rack
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
// 11 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
3 Desperate Ritual
// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mountain
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
// 23 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Reforge the Soul
4 Bonus Round
4 Act on Impulse
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury
// 15 Sideboard
// 5 Artifact
SB: 3 Defense Grid
SB: 2 Silent Gravestone
// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Abrade
// 8 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
Last edited by mistercakes; 09-22-2018 at 02:15 PM.
-rob
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