the bonus round interaction is a good point. Cathartic Reunion? Tormenting Voice?
Faithless looting has been an all star for me. It's odd that you all are down on it.
It smooths out turn 1 hands.
It pitches past in flames and mountains. Remember that time you drew 3 mountains?
Flashback gets reduced by rubies. Gets cheapened by Past in flames even.
Haven't tested with bonus round, but sounds great there too. draw 2 pitch 2, draw 2 pitch 2. hand smooth as butter.
Probe ban is a loss, but it was my most sbed out card. Usually replaced with Defense Grids. I think more rits go there now. Or the spot for Faithless for some. Gamble is good as well.
Lots of varied experiences; overmaster had always been at least good for me, but others say it's bad. *shrug* I really like looting as well, however, grave hate will be stronger g2-3 as the format adjusts.Originally Posted by compacta_d
I totally forgot about gamble. Will put that on my playtest list again.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I think overmaster is a legit flex spot.
deck has LOTS of flex spots
I tested it quite a bit with bonus round and came to the same conclusion that it's generally not great with led and that the card disadvantage wasn't worth it.
It's not my point to tell someone what to play, so if you like it feel free.
-rob
hey guys,
currently i am trying to replace the probes. did someone ever tried noxious revival? in addition more faithless looting and reforges in mainboard. so you could go occasionally for the miracle cost of reforge... also the noxious revival mainboard can shut down reanimator (ok, they have discard but its at least something...) and i dont want to use important slots of sb for graveyard hate...
what do you think in general about the card? do know any other good cards that have synergies with noxious revival?
will post a list when i tested more...
It's okay. It's card disadvantage. If you're playing with Reforge it might be slightly better. The anti reanimator stuff is the best reason, but I wouldn't say it's worth a maindeck slot.
-rob
So, today i played a Legacy league on MTGO with this deck, and i think its great!
Here my list:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1156871#online
What were your matchups and how'd you do?
-rob
My matchs:
1 - RUG Delver 2-0, both games was close, after get almost all cards countered in g1, got 2 ruby in table, and a wish to reforge the soul, (my opponent had 3 FoW in yard). G2 put a grid on turn 1, combo off in turn 4 with a backup plan on pif.
2 - Goblins 2-0, both games i just go to combo on turn 2, no effective answer from the deck.
3 - RUG Control (Stryfo) 1-2, i win g1 turn 3, g2 lost to a Surgical Extraction on Rite of Flame when i'm comboing, g3 mull 5, stay at 1 land for 6-7 turns, there no go back.
4 - Moon Stompy 2-1, g1, just combo on turn 3 against a chalice on 1 t1 and a rbblemaster on t2 with just a City from my opponent. G2, can't handle chalice on 2, but Overmaster and bonus round can do the job here. G3, just combo off t2 against a slow start from him.
5 - Dredge 2-1, He just got a very slow start, and i combo in turn 3, after he dredge for the first time. G2, can't do anything against a explosive hand with faithless looting, led, and 2 cabal therapy. G3, win on t3 after he missed the therapy.
Bonus Roundd is insane, the Deck can combo off with just a card, and this is incredible amazing.
That's great. The flex spots are the 2 ssg, 3 overmaster, 1 Reforge and 1 hazoret's,to a lesser extent the 3rd maindeck pif.
Ssg might be less of a flex spot in a format where daze sees more play.
Haven't you tried anything else yet? Commune with Lava, gamble, other rituals?
What are you siding out when you bring in your grids?
-rob
I doesn't tried anything else. To bring up Grids, ocassionally i take out Hazoreth's Fury, Overmaster or the third PiF.
I'm thinking about running 1 Empty the warrens Main Deck or the 2nd in side to bring games 2 and 3, some times u can just do 14-16 goblins on turn 1 without a wish.
1 Empty in the main is fine. It helps if you have a dark petition or infernal tutor in the sb so you can add am extra storm if you happen to have it. Petition is also pretty cool with bonus round.
-rob
Why aren't you maxing out Rite of Flames in your MDs?
Imho it's the best ritual to start the combo or for a quick T1 ruby. I have never had the intention to wish for it till now. I my list the wishes mainly are used to find the finishers or combo pieces. I have replaced it in the side with an other ritual if needed. With a Ruby on board the 1R rituals are nearly as good and sometimes even better.
The main reason here for putting a Rof in the sb is for bonus round. For example this line is pretty common in goldfishing.
Cast bonus round, cast burning wish. Now you can get rite of flame and gamble.
If you have a single red after burning wish, you're extremely likely to win here (assuming no interaction).
-rob
Been looking back at a few cards that might interact well with bonus round:
Mizzix's Mastery (which might help justify faithless looting enough, does seem rather good after bonus round if you have a manamorphose + almost anything else.)
Browbeat (which on its own is not great, but in a build with bolts could be alright since it could deal 10 for 2r)
Fight with fire (as a wish target, dealing 20 for 6 mana)
Recoup (maybe not enough targets since it only hits sorcery).
If adding a second color as a small addition (not enough to justify the mana base, but pieces of the puzzle or desperate reseach could both be okay.)
Desperate research for 1b seems like it could be fine after bonus round.
Haven't tested any.
Mizzix's Mastery with faithless seems like it could be merited more now with bonus round. I think compacta tested it a lot pre bonus round.
-rob
Unfortunately only the kicker is 5R, so in total it would be 7RR for 20 iirc.
Thx for the example. But I don't get it. Maybe I miss something.
Your example starting with RRRRRR (no RoF in gy) --> RRR + card from Gamble (imho PiF) in gy or maybe hand (if I start with more cards in Hand).
How do I win from there?
If I have a Ruby out:
RRRR --> RRR + card from Gamble (using Rof)
RRRR --> RRRRR + PiF from Gamble (using 1R ritual)
I prefer the second line in this Ruby scenario.
What do I miss? Is there a better line?
Let's say you have R remaining after burning wish with rock in play and bonus round already resolved.
If you have 0 cards in hand then probably your only play here is to grab past in flames and rite of flame.
The hope here is that you cast past in flames with R leftover and then recast rite of flame with the hope of probably a manamorphose or something else that can cantrip after recasting bonus round.
If you have 1 or more cards in hand I prefer this line with R open:
Rof and gamble.
Cast rof and then cast gamble for manamorphose. Your odds will be at worst 50% (if you have more cards in hand it can go down a lot.)
Keep in mind you can also get a seething song here which can be equally strong.
When you discard for gamble, but prior to the copy of gamble resolving (actually the original non copy happens last), you can cast your instant.
If you don't discard manamorphose then you cast it and will have RRR+XXXX, for the second gamble you can get past in flames. Even if you discard past in flames, you can flash it back for 3R, then cast bonus round (flashback) rite of flame (flashback), manamorphose for) 4 cards) and then cast gamble (flashback). At this point you can probably just make up some line of play.
If you have RR in pool after the burning wish, then I recommend getting gamble and past in flames. This allows you to get manamorphose with each gamble. (odds are pretty low to discard manamorphose each time). Also if you don't discard the past in flames and one of the manamorphose resolves, pif only costs 2R.
Otherwise an option could be to run 3 act on impulse in the main and one in the sb. This would allow you to burning wish for rof + AoI. You'll reveal 6 cards, which could be enough considering you can hit led for mana as well. I'm not sure it's worth it since AoI is so good in the maindeck. (probably best topdeck most of the time.)
If you have a rite of flame in the graveyard prior to all of this then I think it would make sense to grab RoF + gamble. Then you can cast rof for 6 mana. Gamble for manamorphose and pif. (manamorphose first), if you discard manamorphose and past in flames, then you can still flashback and go off like in the RR scenario.
-rob
If you have RRR and no cards, or have to use LED while holding priority for burning wish, then I think if bonus round came first you should likely have a Hazoret's Undying Fury in the sb. This way you can get rite of flame and hazoret's.
Flipping 8 cards should win the majority of the time.
I've been trying to come up with a line for using led to get BBB and use desperate research into some convoluted line, but I'm not sure it's much better than the hazoret's one.
I'll have to think about it some more. There could also be a green option with regrowth if there's a manamorphose in the yard. Not sure if that's any better than the scrap card that exiles on resolution.
GGG, get regrowth + past in flames.
Cast regrowth getting manamorphose and led.
Cast manamorphose (for g bc of ruby). Draw 2 and get RRRG.* Play led, cast pif for RRR, cracking led in response for RRR.
Pool has RRRG.
Cast regrowth with flashback, returning manamorphose and LED.
Play led, cast manamorphose cracking led for RRR. Drawing 2 more and now having 8 Mana in pool. (assuming all cards drawn are completely dead, hopefully not).
Flashback pif for RRRR.* Flashback bonus round for RR. Flashback manamorphose for R, with R remaining and +8 for a total of 7 red and 2 black. (and drawing 4 cards).
Hopefully you'll hit something by this point.
Will need to investigate other options here. Bonus round leads for interesting lines.
Bonus round + rock + wish and led for GGG.
Regrowth + Regrowth + Manamorphose (in graveyard).* If you don't mind 2 sb spots being taken up then this is an easy draw your deck solution.
Another thing maybe worth noting is if you have something like seething song + led + bonus round + burning wish you can get rite of flame and hazoret's undying fury even without a rock in play.
Last edited by mistercakes; 07-15-2018 at 03:51 AM.
-rob
I have found my thinking error. It's quite easy - all other good red rituals are instants.
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