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Thread: Ruby Storm

  1. #961

    Re: Ruby Storm

    My test list would look like"

    4 gamble
    2 PIF
    2 RTS
    1 Mizz
    2 Helm
    3 Ruby
    4 LED
    4 Petal
    4 ROF
    4 Seeth
    4 probe
    4 manamorp
    1 tendrils
    4 wish
    4 AOI

    4 Fetch
    6 MTN
    3 Tomb

    SB

    1 tendrils
    1 empty
    1 mizz
    1 PIF
    1 RTS
    1 abrade
    1 Mizzium mortars
    2 Pyro
    3 Defense Grid
    probably 2 blood moons
    1 Cave-In


    Gonna proxy test this with loots as gambles and goldfish it. If I like it I'll pick up the gambles and try it out at my weeklies.

  2. #962
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    I've played 2 gambles in the deck past. It's fine but not always what I want.
    -rob

  3. #963

    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    I've played 2 gambles in the deck past. It's fine but not always what I want.
    I should also actually just try dropping the maindeck Reforge and replace with PIF.

    that may be the better play, but USUALLY need a burning wish to win the game at some point. Reforge gets there.

    I DO think that the specific grouping of cards matter pretty hard for the deck. It allows different lines. Faithless Looting becomes worse when you take out past in flames and mizzix's mastery.

    Reforge is worse without the LED's etc. Changes the whole storm flow chart.

    Gamble could be good with heavy Past in Flames and Mizzix's how Faithless is. Or maybe -2 RTS +2 PIF -1 mizz +1 gamble

    Lots of goldfishing for lines is good. Can't play weeklies EVERYDAY.

  4. #964
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    I'm not sure how you get away with only 14 initial red mana sources. I've goldfished this deck probably more than anyone and I don't think it's correct.
    -rob

  5. #965

    Re: Ruby Storm

    Did you test Serum Powder to increase the likelihood of having a Medallion in your opening hand? It gives away what you're playing, but on the other hand it increases consistency.

  6. #966
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    i haven't tested it, but the deck doesn't really need ruby to win. however, you will be significantly favored in the games where you resolve a ruby.

    serum is quite clunky otherwise, maybe in a version with 4 helm of awakening. what do you propose the cut is?
    -rob

  7. #967
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    I'm not sure how you get away with only 14 initial red mana sources. I've goldfished this deck probably more than anyone and I don't think it's correct.
    10x Mountain + 4x Petal? That's what I'm doing as well. I cut the SSG's completely when I moved over to Shreds of Sanity so I would have more instants to fetch out (another reason for Bolt.) It has worked fine for me, and ironically enough, in the past 4-5 test games I've drawn 3+ lands in my opener.

    I am loving Lightning Bolt, to the point that I think Overmaster might need to go away completely to make room for the full set of Bolts. Right now I am 2/2/2 on Bolt/Overmaster/Empty in the maindeck and there are tons of ways to leverage a longer game that way. Killing Deathrite Shamans has been great, and a storm chain of 10 becomes lethal many times with a Bolt in the mix because I can go off leaner and kill with Grapeshot even without a Medallion. With a medallion it becomes a lot easier to go for Tendrils or EtW/War Strike.

    My testing recently has me making these observations of the test cards:

    -Shreds makes mana rock 5+ really unnecessary, because its a leaner Past in Flames option that can boost mana/storm. Shreds has added on average a 3 storm count and typically ended up with the same mana I started with, so even on mana (sans Medallion.) With Medallion it becomes incredible, and adds 3 storm on average and +2 mana on average. I am completely sold on this as maindeck PiF #4. I haven't tried Mizzix Mastery...but I haven't needed to, Shreds is very good. I also think this completely obfusticates the need for Gamble, which was a fairly low impact card even when it did what I wanted. Some games Gamble is amazing, but most games I didn't draw it at all. Shreds is better as a redundant storm enabler than Gamble, in my humble opinion.

    -Lightning Bolt makes Grapeshot kills a lot easier, which makes games without Medallion much smoother. When you can use 1-2 extra mana (not enough to achieve a tendrils kill) to deal 3-6 extra damage that can usually win the game. The removal is very good. I am on the verge of going for the full set, just for early interaction against fair decks and on a slow start. Without the cantrip cartel to smooth the deck out it is really reliant on raw draw power with AoI, Probe, Manamorphose, HuF, and Reforge. Its not a matter of if we will go off, but whether we have enough time to go off. Bolt buys us time and actually speeds up the kill potential by maybe a half-turn. This is pretty big considering I don't have access to LED.

    -Guttersnipe does the same as bolt out of the board. It actually speeds the deck up, but at the risk of removal. In my metagame there is a glut of fair decks, many of them blue with plenty of removal like Grixis Delver/Czech pile or Punishing Maverick. Post-board Guttersnipe has been really good at simply pressuring from a different axis. If they don't have an answer to Snipe the longer game gets better because chains of rituals don't need to go anywhere on their own, they are pinging off 2 life every time a short chain happens. Really sold on Guttersnipe out of the board.

    -Blood Moon, as much as I love it, just doesn't warrant enough slots. I have enough decks in the metagame Moon-ing people themselves that it is a dead slot. Those slots are going to Snipe. I also forgot that I had a By Force in the board, which I neglected to include in my list further up.

    -I had used Helm of Awakening for a long time, without any real effect of enabling opponent's too much. Something had to give for Bolts and I am positive this is a better option, at least I'm convinced for now.

    Those are my thoughts right now. Really like Lightning Bolt, it's a little counterintuitive because its not a traditional storm inclusion, but man I should have seen it before. Thanks to mistercakes for selling me on Guttersnipe and Bolts.
    Brainstorm Realist

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  8. #968
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    the guttersnipe is all vieko. (as is LED and probe). damn him.

    the bolt is cabaltherapy, vieko and myself.
    -rob

  9. #969

    Re: Ruby Storm

    I've left Magic for some months due to university, but i'm still following this thread.

    I've seen much hate against gamble, but often forgetting one of its best side: the awesome flexibility for reach SB pieces, such as 1x Blood Moon and so on. In my tests, last summer, it has ben incredible, also to increase the possibility of a t2 rock.

  10. #970
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    gamble has been in my maybeboard for quite some time. it's a great card, but haven't felt like using it in a while.
    -rob

  11. #971
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    10x Mountain + 4x Petal? That's what I'm doing as well. I cut the SSG's completely when I moved over to Shreds of Sanity so I would have more instants to fetch out (another reason for Bolt.) It has worked fine for me, and ironically enough, in the past 4-5 test games I've drawn 3+ lands in my opener.

    I am loving Lightning Bolt, to the point that I think Overmaster might need to go away completely to make room for the full set of Bolts. Right now I am 2/2/2 on Bolt/Overmaster/Empty in the maindeck and there are tons of ways to leverage a longer game that way. Killing Deathrite Shamans has been great, and a storm chain of 10 becomes lethal many times with a Bolt in the mix because I can go off leaner and kill with Grapeshot even without a Medallion. With a medallion it becomes a lot easier to go for Tendrils or EtW/War Strike.

    My testing recently has me making these observations of the test cards:

    -Shreds makes mana rock 5+ really unnecessary, because its a leaner Past in Flames option that can boost mana/storm. Shreds has added on average a 3 storm count and typically ended up with the same mana I started with, so even on mana (sans Medallion.) With Medallion it becomes incredible, and adds 3 storm on average and +2 mana on average. I am completely sold on this as maindeck PiF #4. I haven't tried Mizzix Mastery...but I haven't needed to, Shreds is very good. I also think this completely obfusticates the need for Gamble, which was a fairly low impact card even when it did what I wanted. Some games Gamble is amazing, but most games I didn't draw it at all. Shreds is better as a redundant storm enabler than Gamble, in my humble opinion.

    -Lightning Bolt makes Grapeshot kills a lot easier, which makes games without Medallion much smoother. When you can use 1-2 extra mana (not enough to achieve a tendrils kill) to deal 3-6 extra damage that can usually win the game. The removal is very good. I am on the verge of going for the full set, just for early interaction against fair decks and on a slow start. Without the cantrip cartel to smooth the deck out it is really reliant on raw draw power with AoI, Probe, Manamorphose, HuF, and Reforge. Its not a matter of if we will go off, but whether we have enough time to go off. Bolt buys us time and actually speeds up the kill potential by maybe a half-turn. This is pretty big considering I don't have access to LED.

    -Guttersnipe does the same as bolt out of the board. It actually speeds the deck up, but at the risk of removal. In my metagame there is a glut of fair decks, many of them blue with plenty of removal like Grixis Delver/Czech pile or Punishing Maverick. Post-board Guttersnipe has been really good at simply pressuring from a different axis. If they don't have an answer to Snipe the longer game gets better because chains of rituals don't need to go anywhere on their own, they are pinging off 2 life every time a short chain happens. Really sold on Guttersnipe out of the board.

    -Blood Moon, as much as I love it, just doesn't warrant enough slots. I have enough decks in the metagame Moon-ing people themselves that it is a dead slot. Those slots are going to Snipe. I also forgot that I had a By Force in the board, which I neglected to include in my list further up.

    -I had used Helm of Awakening for a long time, without any real effect of enabling opponent's too much. Something had to give for Bolts and I am positive this is a better option, at least I'm convinced for now.

    Those are my thoughts right now. Really like Lightning Bolt, it's a little counterintuitive because its not a traditional storm inclusion, but man I should have seen it before. Thanks to mistercakes for selling me on Guttersnipe and Bolts.
    I actually had an idea of a list with 2 MD Grapeshot, 4 Bolt and 3-4 Firebrand Archer. I think this version would play much closer to a traditional storm deck (storm to ~10 and kill you) and Archer seemed a bit interesting to me due to mana constraints.

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  12. #972

    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    gamble has been in my maybeboard for quite some time. it's a great card, but haven't felt like using it in a while.
    Yes, i know, i've read all the pages of this thread. I was saying that, imho, we forget about this two things about gamble too often, just that =)

  13. #973
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Manroe View Post
    I actually had an idea of a list with 2 MD Grapeshot, 4 Bolt and 3-4 Firebrand Archer. I think this version would play much closer to a traditional storm deck (storm to ~10 and kill you) and Archer seemed a bit interesting to me due to mana constraints.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
    Archer is a little weak...the old Modern/Extended tech was Pyromancer's Swath. I don't think you need it, Guttersnipe is a better threat and 3 mana isn't difficult to achieve over 2. I could see Young Pyromancer as a 2-drop in a Grapeshot-focused deck, but I don't think that's very good either (just too fragile compared to Warrens.) The bolts allow leaner-mana situations to allow Grapeshot to be lethal, which means we don't have to lean on Medallion as much. I love this because it means I don't have to play Helm of Awakening. I don't hesitate to make a small Grapeshot chain to act as a Wrath of God and buy time either.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  14. #974

    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    serum is quite clunky otherwise, maybe in a version with 4 helm of awakening. what do you propose the cut is?
    Thank you for considering my suggestion, but after some days of extensive goldfishing I came to the conclusion that Serum isn't quite warranted. The more practice I have with the deck, the less I see the need for a guaranteed Ruby in the opening hand.

    Based on the list in the opening post, there's not enough room for Serum either. The only cards I'd cut after goldfishing are Commune with Lava which (at least from my experience as of yet) shouldn't be replaced with anything but draw spells.

  15. #975
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by shimst3r View Post
    Thank you for considering my suggestion, but after some days of extensive goldfishing I came to the conclusion that Serum isn't quite warranted. The more practice I have with the deck, the less I see the need for a guaranteed Ruby in the opening hand.

    Based on the list in the opening post, there's not enough room for Serum either. The only cards I'd cut after goldfishing are Commune with Lava which (at least from my experience as of yet) shouldn't be replaced with anything but draw spells.

    i like commune, but it could probably be a 1 or or even dropped. i'm going to continue testing it until i can at least get some matches in with it.

    the slots that are flexible seem to be the 16th land (although you can probably get away with 14 if you're lucky) . some people play 13 here, but over the course of a long tournament, it will catch up with you. the bolts as well, and the guttersnipes.

    if you do run the playsets of snipes and bolts, you're likely to make it to an end game (bolts keep honest decks slow, although they can be brutally bad vs some decks.)

    i like the 16th land right now, although i am considering cutting 1 commune for a 3rd bolt or a 3rd pif, probably a bolt. it could also be a gamble as mentioned.
    -rob

  16. #976
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Regarding lands: I tried 15 lands and I got flooded way too much, even over 50+ games. I cut to 14 and I am happy with that number. I would never play 16 unless it were for utility lands that perform like a spells.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  17. #977

    Re: Ruby Storm

    I preface this with the knowledge that I need way more reps with this deck, however love reading the thread. What are your thoughts on this:

    2 city of traitors
    12 mountain

    4 Ruby Medallion
    4 Lions eye diamond
    4 lotus petal
    4 rite of flame
    4 manamorphose
    4 seething song
    4 gitaxian probe
    4 act on impulse
    4 burning wish

    3 guttersnipe
    2 past in flames
    1 shreds of sanity
    4 lightning bolt//3 and 1 abrade

    Sb:
    1 tendrils of agony
    1 empty the warrens
    1 grapeshot
    1 past in flames
    1 cave-in
    1 reforge the soul
    1 by force/shattering spree
    3 scab clan berserker
    2 defense grid
    2 silent gravestone
    1 abrade or potentially hull breach.

    This is what I think I'd like to test after reading this far.
    If leds can't be found im thinking 15th land and 3 desperate rituals.

    I'd say keep our eyes peeled for this year's group of products. Dominaria will likely be promising and between all the cool new products and the core set returns, we could very well wind up with an additional act on impulse or something else.

    Side note, say we did get a functional reprint....what would we even cut?

  18. #978
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Knighthawk View Post
    I preface this with the knowledge that I need way more reps with this deck, however love reading the thread. What are your thoughts on this:

    2 city of traitors
    12 mountain

    4 Ruby Medallion
    4 Lions eye diamond
    4 lotus petal
    4 rite of flame
    4 manamorphose
    4 seething song
    4 gitaxian probe
    4 act on impulse
    4 burning wish

    3 guttersnipe
    2 past in flames
    1 shreds of sanity
    4 lightning bolt//3 and 1 abrade

    Sb:
    1 tendrils of agony
    1 empty the warrens
    1 grapeshot
    1 past in flames
    1 cave-in
    1 reforge the soul
    1 by force/shattering spree
    3 scab clan berserker
    2 defense grid
    2 silent gravestone
    1 abrade or potentially hull breach.

    This is what I think I'd like to test after reading this far.
    If leds can't be found im thinking 15th land and 3 desperate rituals.

    I'd say keep our eyes peeled for this year's group of products. Dominaria will likely be promising and between all the cool new products and the core set returns, we could very well wind up with an additional act on impulse or something else.

    Side note, say we did get a functional reprint....what would we even cut?
    Honestly, I've had better luck without LEDs if I run snipes main. I originally built this to be budget and I got the LEDs for something else. Really fell in love with it.

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  19. #979
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    List looks worth testing. Play the singleton Abrade if you're in a heavy dnt/drs/Stompy meta. Otherwise play a 4th bolt or a 2nd shreds (it gets better with bolts too.


    If we get a functional reprint of AoI this deck becomes very scary. I don't know if it will ever happen, but would also be happy with a 1R 2 card AoI. Anyway. Let's see what happens, as mentioned earlier in the thread: the deck will only get better over time. The other storm decks are already pretty optimal, so the work in progress is a great reason to keep this deck sleeved up.
    -rob

  20. #980

    Re: Ruby Storm

    With a duplicate AoI, i'd trim some g.probes, and from the above list, some bolts. There should be two gy effect cards, mizzix or pif, so that Shreds is looking to be replaced by AoI clone too. And if Commune is in the deck, that''s a candidate as well.

    Not touching any ramp spell(morph inc.), not touching artifacts, nor burning wish, what's left? Snipes for sure, but i'm a huge fan of those.
    Last edited by ahg113; 02-15-2018 at 07:09 AM.

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