I think it depends on your approach with the deck. If you don't mind being a bit slower, you can try vieko's approach. I'm not sure he's had time to test yet, but likes running guttersnipe and bolt maindeck along with light up the stage.
You won't have so many all in kind of turns, but you will likely be a pretty consistent turn 3/4 deck.
AFAIK he does not like bonus round, and tried to minimize randomness by not running Hazoret's or Reforge.
You can also try the red + intuition build I've put together. You could cut 1 intuition and 2 hazoret's for 3 light up the stage.
This would mean you have
4 act
3 light
2 intuition
4 wish
4 bonus round
It doesn't run Reforge as it's not really necessary. I think that Josef and I are both pretty sure that Reforge isn't very good after game 1, although it's very good during game 1.
Youll have to play with numbers and adapt to your metagame. Playing well with this deck is hard, and you'll have to master it when going into matches with the blue decks.
Maybe vs blue decks having more maindeck empty is a better idea as well. Then bonus round isn't as good.
The game 1 %'s of this deck are very good.
the post SB %'s of this deck can be much worse (even going from 60+% down to 40%.
It might make more sense to have some matchups slightly worse game 1 and have a better maindeck intended for those grindy matchups and lose a little speed.
Then the sb can be more dedicated to hedge even more against those decks post sb. Can also have some heavier hate for the combo matchups.
What might this deck look like?
The 3 main contenders for maindeck resiliency would likely be:
lightning bolt
guttersnipe
empty the warrens
how many of these would we need to have moderately less successful game 1, but allow us to have more flex spots in the sb?
-rob
to follow up:
// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
// 2 Creature
2 Guttersnipe
// 10 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Lightning Bolt
// 15 Land
2 Ancient Tomb
9 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle
// 21 Sorcery
4 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Act on Impulse
2 Bonus Round
4 Light Up the Stage
1 Empty the Warrens
// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Enchantment
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Abrade
// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Bonus Round
(example for reanimator meta)
for storm meta leyline could be something like tormod's crypt, or scab-clan berserkers.
for more blue meta, maybe include more empty the warrens.
i tried defense grids a lot, and i'm not happy with them.
-rob
i've been thinking about how to cut hazoret's from the maindeck and this is what i've come down to:
// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
// 13 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
3 Desperate Ritual
2 Intuition
// 14 Land
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
2 Volcanic Island
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Mountain
// 21 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Act on Impulse
4 Bonus Round
4 Light Up the Stage
// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Creature
SB: 4 Guttersnipe
// 11 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 3 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Sadistic Sacrament
if you're greedy run 1 more intuition over a desperate ritual.
----------
for non-led, i think i could have some fun with this
// 60 Maindeck
// 8 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
// 3 Creature
2 Guttersnipe
1 Hope of Ghirapur
// 13 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Commune with Lava
// 14 Land
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Mountain
// 22 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Act on Impulse
4 Bonus Round
4 Light Up the Stage
1 Empty the Warrens
// 12 Sideboard
// 1 Creature
SB: 1 Guttersnipe
// 11 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 3 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Sadistic Sacrament
you could also run a 2nd maindeck hope of ghirapur if you are in a heavy show and tell/reanimator meta. it functions as a time walk as well as a way to beat the control decks. also can trigger light up the stage.
-rob
for anyone interested in the non-blue version, i think this is the most consistent red LED version.
// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
// 10 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Desperate Ritual
// 14 Land
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle
// 24 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Act on Impulse
4 Bonus Round
4 Light Up the Stage
3 Empty the Warrens
// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
// 2 Creature
SB: 2 Guttersnipe
// 11 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Sadistic Sacrament
SB: 1 Goblin War Strike
SB: 1 Telemin Performance
if you have a high ANT meta, you can also consider just running an extract in the sb instead of sadistic sacrament. if you want to be more proactive with your general game plan, then just run more guttersnipe or by force, abrade etc.
-rob
Quick question for you mistercakes: I cast bonus round, then past in flames, and then flashback bonus round. How many copy triggers do I get? To me it seems like the first bonus round gives me 1 copy trigger, the flashbacked copy gives me a 2nd copy trigger, the original bonus round gives me a 3rd copy trigger of the bonus round I just flashed back. If this is correct Lightning Bolt by itself can become a lethal 'storm' kill. (Bonus Round follow by Bolt = 6 damage, build mana and flashback Bonus round to get 3 copy triggers, bolt for 12 damage.) Eighteen damage is often lethal.
I tested a few games with my list. I am 100% sold on 3x Lightning Bolt. I'm not sure if 4 is correct, but I'm leaning that way and cutting the maindeck Empty the Warrens for the 4th copy. Bonus Round is the literal nutter-butters for this deck. For anyone curious, I'm not using LED.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
bonus round works like this
1 resolved means when you cast future spells you get 1 copy.
if you cast a 2nd bonus round (or the 1st one a second time via PiF)
cast bonus round (copy on stack). 2 total resolve.
now if you cast a spell, you will get 3 copies.
if you cast a bonus around again it will look like this
cast bonus round (BR trigger, BR trigger, BR trigger). resolve them all, now you will get 4 more copies.
cast something like manamorphose and you get 7 copies
the number of copies is following the pattern: (2^n) - 1 to determine the number of copies. you can just do 2^n to determine total number of spells that will resolve if all copies resolve.
also referred to as Mersenne Numbers, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersenne_prime
bolt damage would be 6, 12, 24, 48, 96 damage etc. i liked bolt in the reforge builds b/c if you cast 1 or 2 bonus rounds and cast a reforge, you can win before reforge and the copies fully resolve if need be (and in a a circumstance where you might get decked (assuming all your bolts aren't in the last X cards)
-rob
Cool thanks.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Keep Walking, Voidwalker! - Use bugs with moderation -
Bonus round copies the additional bonus rounds as well, so after casting the first you have 1 bonus round in effect. Then you cast the second one, the first triggers on this as well so after everything resolves you have 3 bonus rounds in effect.
1 copy
3 copies
7 copies
15 copies
31 copies
63 copies
127 copies
255 copies
-rob
So I've been getting some reps in with the deck (not matches, just goldfishing) and Light up the Stage is the real deal. In this deck it doesn't need to be enabled with Spectacle at all, I rarely play it that way. The Ruby's making it even 2 mana is just fine. I'm still on the non-LED version, which makes it about a turn slower, but it's still very explosive. Bonus Round has really made it so Tendrils wins are less necessary, turbo charging the storm count (not literally, just drawing more cards and making more mana) so Grapeshot is easily lethal.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
It was posted earlier on, the only change being that I put 1 Bonus Round into the sideboard.
4x Rite of Flame
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Seething Song
4x Manamorphose
4x Ruby Medallion
4x Lotus Petal
4x Burning Wish
4x Light up the Stage
4x Act on Impulse
3x Past in Flames
3x Bonus Round
3x Lightning Bolt
1x Hazoret's Undying Fury
4x Ancient Tomb
10x Mountain
Sideboard
1x Tendrils
1x Empty
1x Grapeshot
1x PiF
1x Bonus Round
1x Pyroclasm
1x By Force
1x Reforge the Soul
3x Guttersnipe
2x Scab-Clan Berserker
2x Pyroblast
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
This deck is so much fun, Light Up the Stage is such a boon, a totally missing piece of the deck. SSS but playing on cockatrice, being able to go over the top, especially against Eldrazi which gave the first iteration of this deck soooo much trouble with resistors, chalice, etc. JOY! Thanks everyone here (except the purple players, blue is the devil, you're all dead to me) for making this a sweet sweet brew. I'm on the fence about playing in a 1k this Saturday, so many things to do, so little time.
Previously was on the man-plan, but for stated reasons, I don't like turning on removal. I play EtW minimally, for that reason. But when I got Scab-Clan Berserker live, it housed other storm decks, can-trip cartel too. It competes with Defense Grid.
Current deck list, currently wouldn't change anything. Always open to SB suggestions. Saw Sadistic Sacrament, isn't that way win-more, felt similar about Telemin Performance.
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Commune with Lava
8 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Sandstone Needle
1 Past in Flames
4 Rite of Flame
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
3 Bonus Round
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Reforge the Soul
4 Light Up the Stage
SB:
3 Defense Grid
1 Past in Flames
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 By Force
1 Cave-In
1 Shattering Spree
1 Chain Lightning
1 Banefire
1 Bonus Round
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 Fiery Confluence
Last edited by ahg113; 02-21-2019 at 12:54 AM.
There are no purple players, only one player. The reason for that seem to mostly be because of either budget reasons or an in my mind irrational dislike of blue. It's a bit unfortunate in my opinion as i (obv) think UR is better and that blue offers more possibility for varying play styles in different matchups. I'm currently ~62% wins this year (almost 150 matches). I'm certain that it can be increased somewhat just by settling which strategies to use in which matchup.
2 examples of where that has happened
- I had an revelation a while ago about why the grixis control matchup was so good. Before that revelation i had 24-14, after that revelation i am 13-2, this is without any major changes in the deck.
- The other example being sneak and show, i realized a while ago that i am _not_ the beatdown in the postboard games. Before that i was 3-6, after that i am 5-0, very small sample size and it's obviously not a 100% matchup but i feel a lot more confident in that matchup now.
Both those changes are directly related to the cantrips, what to keep, what to shuffle away etc.
It would be awesome with more people playing UR and be able to discuss playstyles instead of just decklists. If only i weren't so lazy i would create my own thread and be more active in promoting the deck :)
I'm joking with you, you're a-ok. Sarcasm doesn't translate the best online, and I don't participate enough for it to be evident. I'd include mistercakes as purple since he started splashing for Intuition.
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