Ruby Storm

[mistercakes]

i don't really treat the decks as identical and looking for slot swapping. because this deck can't run discard it has to run more threats. this makes it a different deck entirely.

whatever floats your boat :p

[Mr. Safety]

i don't really treat the decks as identical and looking for slot swapping. because this deck can't run discard it has to run more threats. this makes it a different deck entirely.

whatever floats your boat :p

I get that; I was just looking at the discard as disruption/protection in a general sense, doing the same job as Defense Grid/Blood Moon.

The decks are nowhere near identical, but looking at it through an established setup it might help find where the holes are.

[mistercakes]

I like to think of it as what are the bare minimum numbers for each card and then whatever I have leftover is X slots.

[Mr. Safety]

I was doing the same, and it ends up shuffling around the same 7-10 cards (as I'm sure you've noticed.) I think the difference with Faithless Looting is that it should mean we see less random games. I found that shuffling around those 7-10 slots made some games better, some games worse. The variance factor is hard to nail down when its just relying on drawing the correct mix of cards with the current decklist at-hand. I think Looting will help to narrow down where the variance is coming from. Gamble also fills that role, and I've been super happy with Gamble.

It's important to note that the first Faithless Looting is card disadvantage, the second one is parity. During the combo turn where multiple copies of PiF are cast it becomes incredibly good, better than Reforge the Soul I think.

I'm curious if you've tried out Looting, and if so, what were your thoughts/results? I don't remember it being mentioned in the thread, but I may have just missed it.

[Icapica]

I have to admit I am interested in trying Faithless Looting, though I don't think I'll play the full set. I've been keeping my list the same for several leagues in MTG Online now, figuring that there's no point in switching stuff around after just five matches. Maybe I'll soon try some changes finally.

In addition to feeding PIF, Faithless Looting would allow me to convert unnecessary lands and extra PIFs etc into something potentially useful.

[Mr. Safety]

I am also a little skeptical about the full 4...but I'm also going to try a singleton Chrome Mox which makes extra copies a better pitch-card than rituals.

[mistercakes]

I had tested faithless in the original 8rocks builds. My main problem with it then was that it was not working much card disadvantage.

It was nice when you could flash it back for R, but other than that I wasn't really thrilled with the card. Feel free to continue testing though. Maybe there's a place for 1 or 2.

[Mr. Safety]

Starting with 4, taking slots out that were dedicated to Reforge the Soul (2 of them) and dropping Act on Impulse altogether (1 slot) and dropping to 14 lands (1 slot.) Testing will show if I draw into too many of them. If I do I think I'll drop to 3 and add in 1x Chrome Mox.

[mistercakes]

Dropping AoI is prob wrong! Been there done that!

[vieko]

Dropping AoI is prob wrong! Been there done that!

Yup... this seems bad.

[Mr. Safety]

Well, I still have them. They can always go back in. I also finally picked up a set of helm in paper to test, along with berserkers and overmaster. Building up a decent pool of cards to work with.

If you guys had to choose between huf, rts, or aoi, which would you favor? Aoi?

[vieko]

Well, I still have them. They can always go back in. I also finally picked up a set of helm in paper to test, along with berserkers and overmaster. Building up a decent pool of cards to work with.

If you guys had to choose between huf, rts, or aoi, which would you favor? Aoi?

AOI any day :)

HUF: I'm done with the card, too random. RTS: maybe as a one-of. AOI is 3-4 in all my lists. AOI is the most predictable of the cards you inquire about: you may not know what's coming but if you play it with enough available mana to use and / or a reduction artifact in play, you'll likely benefit from it.

[Icapica]

Also I like that you can even play a land with AOI, unlike with HUF. Sometimes it's relevant.

[mistercakes]

AoI is the best, Reforge is great. I still run 4 AoI and 2-3 Reforge with 1 sb.

Wheel of fortune is just too powerful of an effect to ignore.

AoI however is one sided and usually 2 mana. Hazoret's is usually 5 and it's still just a coin flip.

AoI is also. A better draw late game as you may not have 5 mana available. I've won quite a few games with 3 mana +a rock open and drawing AoI into a win after they exhausted their counters the turn prior.

[hadhod]

Hi at all. Sorry for my absence.

Yesterday i did another league with another 3-1 :D

that is my new list:


// 60 Mazzo
// 11 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
3 Helm of Awakening

// 4 Creature
4 Simian Spirit Guide

// 9 Instant
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
1 Commune with Lava

// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
10 Mountain

// 22 Sorcery
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Rite of Flame
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Empty the Warrens
3 Act on Impulse
3 Reforge the Soul


// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Creature
SB: 3 Scab-Clan Berserker

// 2 Enchantment
SB: 2 Blood Moon

// 4 Instant
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Abrade

// 6 Sorcery
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul




(yesterday i played -1 gitaxian + 1 commune)

little report:

round 1 - BG depths (another guy, not the same)

Win the roll -> lost g1, obv, 'cause i was drawing 8 lands with 3 AoI and a surgical onto BW in g1!

side -> +2 abrade +2 Bmoon + 1 Grape - 2 EtW - 1 Commune - 2 Gitaxian

g2 -> combo off with 24 goblins at first and his Marit Leage cried now :D
g3 -> a little more complicated: take hand with 3 ssg/petals, AoI, Helm, 2 Morphose and try to combo off at first. With the second Morphose i drew Bmoon with 3 mana in pool, i can cast AoI and Bmoon, but i can't cast some other spells from AoI if they aren't rites, so i decide to cast Bmoon and win with this :D

1-0

round 2 -> snt

win the roll -> g1: doing rite into bw -> fow, hardcasting EtW for 14 and double swing :D

side: nothing

g2: i can go combo off at first, i did and i lsoe onto his FoW
g3: same of g2

1-1

round 3 -> BG Rock

Win the roll again -> g1: he casted Cabal Therapy into BW, i've one in hand. Don't draw more enabler/drawer

side: same of depths, only +1 etw -1 gitaxian

g2: he surgicals me the bw and cast pernicious saiding: "u can't close now!" -> next turn i did +60 dmg with grape xD
g3: i did a fast goblins that put him at 3-4 LP, but i don't have more goblins! But i'd 2-3 rocks and every topdeck save me -> AoI into PiF, bw, Song. Not bad.

2-1

round 4 -> BG depths (that gay is the same of the other league! REVEANGE)

Lost the roll -> g1: combo off at second after t1 rock and his Leage in front of me.

side: same of other bg depths

g2: he start urborg -> seize, i put mountain go and he did DD + Hexmage. OK, i lost... NO, THAT IS THE REVEANGE! I tried to do spells (i'd 2 morphose and a Wheel). I did some rite and casting Wheel i've only 1 red float. Now he surgicals me Rite of Flame. Resolved wheel: Ssgx2, Songx2, Ruby, BW, AoI :D With that hand, i closed easy :D

3-1


I see that we have a very bad MU against combo with U (snt, infect) because we don't have big interaction with them and they have with us! In fact, I lose in this league and also in an other one only because I found the wrong MU. The deck is very strong against eldrazi, D&T (without Prelate), and discards effect, but have a very bad MU that we can't resolve with a little SB (like 9 cards).

Another little point: Fiery COnfluence in sb is very great :D

[Mr. Safety]

AOI any day :)

HUF: I'm done with the card, too random. RTS: maybe as a one-of. AOI is 3-4 in all my lists. AOI is the most predictable of the cards you inquire about: you may not know what's coming but if you play it with enough available mana to use and / or a reduction artifact in play, you'll likely benefit from it.

My experience has been very good with HUF, that's one of the cards I don't waffle over. I will always have 1-2 maindeck. AoI has been great when I draw it, in almost all situations, it just didn't seem as appealing as draw 7 with Reforge the Soul. My perspective on RtS has changed a lot since facing off against the premier blue decks of the format.

However, you're still on LED right? LED powers out AoI in a big way. I still think its really powerful, and a much better topdeck than a ritual with no PiF in the graveyard.

List for testing, putting Helm/Mox into maindeck and Blood Moon side. Still think Faithless Looting is worth slots. How many, I don't know, but starting with a 2/2 split of Looting/Gamble. Honestly, I think the Reforge the Soul should probably be the 3rd AoI. I know a lot of folks are sold on that card, but in my metagame its just too risky by feeding blue decks more counterspells (and handing reanimator decks the win on the spot...) Inferno Titan has been tabled, it just isn't worth slots.

4x Rite of Flame
3x Desperate Ritual
4x Seething Song
4x Manamorphose
4x Lotus Petal
1x Chrome Mox

4x Ruby Medallion
1x Helm of Awakening

2x Faithless Looting
2x Gamble
4x Gitaxian Probe
2x Act on Impulse

3x Past in Flames
1x Reforge the Soul
2x Hazoret's Undying Fury

4x Burning Wish
1x Empty the Warrens

10 Mountain
4x Crystal Vein

Sideboard

1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Grapeshot
1x Past in Flames
1x By Force
1x Cave-In
2x Blood Moon
2x Surgical Extraction
3x Pyroblast
2x Scab-Clan Berserker

[Mr. Safety]

AoI is the best, Reforge is great. I still run 4 AoI and 2-3 Reforge with 1 sb.

Wheel of fortune is just too powerful of an effect to ignore.

AoI however is one sided and usually 2 mana. Hazoret's is usually 5 and it's still just a coin flip.

AoI is also. A better draw late game as you may not have 5 mana available. I've won quite a few games with 3 mana +a rock open and drawing AoI into a win after they exhausted their counters the turn prior.

Have you drawn opponents into Force of Will post-Reforge? I have, and its a lousy feeling lol. I think with Helm in there Act on Impulse's stock goes way up, because it becomes a draw 3 for 2 rather than a draw 7 for 4. I'll take only 3 cards at the cost of *not* giving my opponent a fresh 7 any day of the week against fair blue decks. Against non-interactive, non-graveyard decks it can be disruption but against those decks we're kind of favored already.

Theres' always a nagging thought in the back of my head as well: Hazoret's Undying Fury is what put the deck on the map as a potential storm variant, and not folks are basically saying 'not good enough!' It's an odd paradox, because without the printing of that card this deck wouldn't even start incubating (not seriously anyways.)

[Icapica]

Theres' always a nagging thought in the back of my head as well: Hazoret's Undying Fury is what put the deck on the map as a potential storm variant, and not folks are basically saying 'not good enough!' It's an odd paradox, because without the printing of that card this deck wouldn't even start incubating (not seriously anyways.)

I have thought about that too. Then again, I suspect that there's several decent (if probably not DTB level) decks that could be built from Legacy card pool but just haven't been discovered.

[mistercakes]

I suppose so, but fruity pebbles was a precursor to trix. I don't fault trix for not running enduring renewal.

[Mr. Safety]

I remember a very respected member of my legacy community once saying: 'only new cards make new decks' (paraphrased.) I assumed this to be true, because it only made sense. There has to be a breakthrough piece of technology that takes a deck from mediocre/inconsistent into a deck powerful enough to win games.

I suppose getting the 'right mix' is also part of the equation that can put a deck on the map, which takes a lot of effort but thankfully we have a dedicated group of 4-5 of us that are willing to put in that effort for Ruby Storm. I think the deck is close, maybe 1 card off from being optimal.

The biggest challenge is taking the random factor out of the deck as much as possible, which is difficult because in the color pie red is the most random of any color. It's designed to be chaotic. This is why cards like Act on Impulse are so important for the deck, they give an angle for red to get card advantage/quality without splashing.