Page 4 of 98 FirstFirst 123456781454 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 1944

Thread: Ruby Storm

  1. #61
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,274

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    Had it in the first draft. I think it's not needed. It can certainly be explored again but I'm not willing to invest time in that one.
    -rob

  2. #62
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,274

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    Will update in a few days when we got some more data. Vieko and I have been running some leagues with the deck and the control matchups are pretty good but combo decks still need to be accounted for, especially in this meta. Will try out chalice as mentioned earlier in the thread.

    Will try to get vieko's matchups so there can be a summary.
    -rob

  3. #63

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    I've been following this thread with great interest and finally got around to putting the deck together and doing some goldfishing. What struck me in my (admittedly brief) testing is how often I was able to generate very large amounts of excess mana. This led me to consider Banefire as a possible win condition, perhaps as an alternative to Grapeshot. You can Burning Wish for it, it is uncounterable, and based on my initial testing, it is easier to generate the mana needed for a lethal Banefire than it is to cast the 19 spells needed for a lethal Grapeshot. Anyhow, I would love to hear other thoughts or opinions. Is this a card that anyone else has tested or considered?

  4. #64
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,274

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    It could be okay if you have to play around a stifle, but I usually just grapeshot multiple times.
    -rob

  5. #65
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,274

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    Testing running LED, 2 volcs, some fetches and 3 gifts ungiven.

    Still no protection maindeck in this build, will update if it's any better than current builds with maindeck grids.

    also testing a mono red version w/ bedlam reveler for a little more consistency/additional win condition + good late game topdeck.
    Last edited by mistercakes; 07-16-2017 at 09:01 AM.
    -rob

  6. #66
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    I play a lot of gifts storm on modern, and splashing blue puts you right down that path. Gifts + PiF is definitely a combo, but I'm not sure its legacy material. Eventually you get to the point where you have Led and volcanics and it becomes a bad Ant. I like the mono red version because it can be explosive, which gives it merit.

    What about playing some broken creatures you can land t1, like the old all-in-red decks? Deus of Calamity probably won't cut it anymore, but lotus petal and manamorphose help you cast sire of insanity, or even just an inferno titan.

    EDIT: Overmaster makes the plan viable as well. Pif becomes an incredible backup plan, hopefully they burn interaction to deal with your t1 play, which leaves them open to pif/grapeshot.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  7. #67
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,274

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    i should flesh out my thoughts a bit more on this. the mono red version is pretty good, still definitely a tier 2 deck, albeit a very strong one.

    the mono red list roughly has about 48 slots that are set in stone (44 if you choose rite of flame over desperate ritual)

    the 48 would look like this

    (34)
    4 helm
    4 ruby
    4 desperate ritual/rite of flame
    4 seething song
    4 manamorphose
    4 burning wish
    4 lotus petal
    4 simian spirit guide
    2 past in flames
    (14)
    10 mountain
    4 ancient tomb

    from there the deck has some different configurations: (12 slots left...refer to these slots as business spells)

    i like to run some number of act on impulse, hazoret's undying fury, reforge the wheel, empty the warrens.

    3 act on impulse
    3 hazoret's undying fury
    3 reforge the wheel
    3 empty the warrens

    (this would be the most glass cannon version, although it can recover quite easily with the random topdecks of PiF, fury, AoI, reforge, or burning wish.)

    we (vieko and I) have been testing it a lot. we've tried maindeck defense grids and they seem fine, although they take away from the "business spell count". this makes hazoret's worse if you are only running 8-9 business spells + 4 wish + 2 past in flames, but it is still viable.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    bedlam reveler is a nice fit for this deck if you don't want to run defense grids maindeck, it also makes hazoret's worse by whiffing (8cc). it's a great topdeck and is quite easy to cast.
    example: turn 1 ruby/helm. turn 2 mountain, seething song. = reveler. obviously other lines can probably get there easily too, but just showing potential for him to hit. he also has prowess so if gone unchecked for a turn (he dodges pretty much all the removal right now except swords/dismember).

    the business spells that i would run if i choose to run this guy are:

    4 bedlam reveler
    4 act on impulse
    3 reforge the wheel
    1 hazoret's undying fury

    Another option here is to go for less explosive but have some interaction:

    4 Bedlam Reveler
    3 Act on Impulse
    2 Grapeshot
    2 Empty the Warrens
    1x pif, grapeshot, etw, hazoret's etc

    the last build i've been experimenting with is the modern-style gifts approach.

    because casting a gifts can result in the end of the game considering the following:
    1 helm/ruby = gifts + RR1
    2 helm/ruby = gifts + RR

    because of this it feels like the deck should be running lion's eye diamond. it allows for a turn 1 helm/ruby with a tomb followed by a turn 2 gifts + LED for a guaranteed win (if unopposed)

    then i think the business spells should be

    3 act on impulse
    1 past in flames (3 total)
    4 lion's eye diamond
    1 hazoret's undying fury
    3 gifts ungiven

    there could be some variation on this. could be wrong as hazoret's does whiff from time to time, but there's a good chance to win the game if a gifts hits. Also trying 2/2 with AoI /hazoret's here.

    Led isn't really a business spell but it enables this combo in addition to making act on Impulse and burning wish more effective. It can also double up as a ramp spell with past in flames. Pretty similar functionality in other decks. I do like that it can be used a gifts target if you're holding the past in flames or there is one already in your graveyard as the 4th ramp spell.

    I may change one desperate ritual to a pyretic ritual or even go 2/2 for gifts targets.

    anyway! those are updates from my side. maybe vieko can post his notes at some point because i know he's more adamant about using empty the warrens than i am.

    Edit, was thinking a but more and there's no reason to not try a hybrid of these two ideas.

    Business spells :

    2 Act on Impulse
    3 Lion's Eye Diamond
    3 Gifts Ungiven
    4 Bedlam Reveler

    And the lands in these gifts builds have been
    5 fetches, 2 Volcanic, 3 Mountain, 4 Ancient Tomb

    Some gifts combos. Must have at least one of each in library upon casting


    2 rocks. Gifts + R + manamorphose in grave
    pyretic, song, pif, desperate

    1 rock. Gifts + RR + manamorphose in grave
    Song, LED, pif, desperate

    Empty grave
    2 rocks. Gifts + RR
    Manamorphose, song, pif, desperate

    Empty grave
    1 rock. Gifts + RR1
    Manamorphose, song, pif, desperate

    Past in Flames in hand
    2 rocks. Gifts + R
    pyretic, manamorphose, desperate, song

    Past in Flames in hand
    1 rock. Gifts + R
    song, manamorphose, desperate, pyretic

    Past in Flames in graveyard
    2 rocks. Gifts + R
    pyretic, manamorphose, desperate, song

    Past in Flames in graveyard
    1 rock. Gifts + R1
    pyretic, manamorphose, desperate, song
    Last edited by mistercakes; 07-17-2017 at 07:34 AM.
    -rob

  8. #68

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    Running late for a meeting so very quickly:

    • Scab-Clan Berserker is a beast vs Storm (our hardest matchup IMO)
    • Reanimator is difficult but absolutely not impossible. A number of grave hate helps but overall: killing them faster seems to be the best course of action
    • I go back and forth on Helms... I'm favouring the faster builds with Tendrils kill (6 fetches and 2 badlands) so, helm seems redundant sometimes... Ruby does the trick



    Will post more later!

  9. #69
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,274

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by vieko View Post
    Running late for a meeting so very quickly:

    • Scab-Clan Berserker is a beast vs Storm (our hardest matchup IMO)
    • Reanimator is difficult but absolutely not impossible. A number of grave hate helps but overall: killing them faster seems to be the best course of action
    • I go back and forth on Helms... I'm favouring the faster builds with Tendrils kill (6 fetches and 2 badlands) so, helm seems redundant sometimes... Ruby does the trick



    Will post more later!
    glad he worked out. i'm always trying to play it too safe by running 8 helm/ruby. it's probably not optimal but i can't stand not drawing them. looking forward to posts. i think you've got more games with the deck than me!
    -rob

  10. #70
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    Is Chrome Mox worth any slots? It takes a card out of your hand for storm count but it also only helps you, where Helm aids your opponents.

    EDIT: Gitaxian Probe?
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  11. #71
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,274

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    i know vieko has tested probe a lot. he goes back and forth on it and it can be quite strong. right now the deck is a balancing act. i only tried mox as a 2 of and a 1 of and i thought it was fine, but it's more likely to take the place of something like simian spirit guide instead of another card slot.

    the trick here is finding a good compromise for hazoret's. i would say right now you only hit a big card 50% of the time. that's with about 12 dedicated hits. this could be past in flames, burning wish, reforge the soul etc.

    if the deck wants to be more interactive and load up on some bigger cards so that it can hit more often, it will need to play some other cards to slow the game down. the biggest enablers for that are chalice, tangle wire, and blood moon.

    the deck is capable of winning with chaining reforge the souls and past in flames, but still requires usually a medallion or a helm.

    right now what i've been testing is some variations using gifts ungiven. the ability to guarantee a win if it hits and you have medallion + RR1 or 2 medallions + RR is very interesting for me.

    it also might allow for some kind of unburial rites sb, although i'm a little hesitant with all the graveyard hate going around.

    i might also return to a list with chandra, torch of defiance. having the abiility to play this card on turn 1 can be absurd, and if it flips with hazoret's you have the option of seeing another card + 2 damage or adding RR to chain some more spells if needed. it also has a maindeck 4 dmg to creature so this can slow the game down as well. the ultimate in this deck should also ensure an immediate kill, although it's a lot less important, but maybe worth mentioning.
    -rob

  12. #72

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    Helm of obedience + leyiline of the void (usually gy hate of monored) in sb is viable imo. Both are an hit with hazoret, and helm is a kill with opponent's rip.


    Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

  13. #73

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocioni88 View Post
    Helm of obedience + leyiline of the void (usually gy hate of monored) in sb is viable imo. Both are an hit with hazoret, and helm is a kill with opponent's rip.
    ...
    I've wondered whether you can cut the land count and run Goblin Charbelcher (which combines with a ritual off Hazoret).

  14. #74
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,274

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    We tried both in earlier versions, belcher is better than the leyline plan. Right now we've been using scab Clan eidolon guy and defense grids. The deck is very capable of winning thorough lots of grave hate, even through leyline of the void.
    -rob

  15. #75
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    i know vieko has tested probe a lot. he goes back and forth on it and it can be quite strong. right now the deck is a balancing act. i only tried mox as a 2 of and a 1 of and i thought it was fine, but it's more likely to take the place of something like simian spirit guide instead of another card slot.

    the trick here is finding a good compromise for hazoret's. i would say right now you only hit a big card 50% of the time. that's with about 12 dedicated hits. this could be past in flames, burning wish, reforge the soul etc.

    if the deck wants to be more interactive and load up on some bigger cards so that it can hit more often, it will need to play some other cards to slow the game down. the biggest enablers for that are chalice, tangle wire, and blood moon.

    the deck is capable of winning with chaining reforge the souls and past in flames, but still requires usually a medallion or a helm.

    right now what i've been testing is some variations using gifts ungiven. the ability to guarantee a win if it hits and you have medallion + RR1 or 2 medallions + RR is very interesting for me.

    it also might allow for some kind of unburial rites sb, although i'm a little hesitant with all the graveyard hate going around.

    i might also return to a list with chandra, torch of defiance. having the abiility to play this card on turn 1 can be absurd, and if it flips with hazoret's you have the option of seeing another card + 2 damage or adding RR to chain some more spells if needed. it also has a maindeck 4 dmg to creature so this can slow the game down as well. the ultimate in this deck should also ensure an immediate kill, although it's a lot less important, but maybe worth mentioning.
    You've sucked me into this deck, lol. Your work that you've put into this is admirable.

    I think if Gifts is that good then it becomes a natural substitute over Reforge the Soul. It costs 1 less (or the same with a Medallion, not counting miracle cost.) Ponder/Brainstorm seem like they just have to be added, but maybe that's incorrect. With Gifts being essentially a 'tutor 4 cards' engine maybe its ok to be the only blue card in the deck. I'm curious to test it out, I have Magic Workstation and I can proxy it out and test it against a gauntlet (I use the DtB forum here for those decks, along with several other tier 2's.)

    4x Ruby Medallion
    4x Manamorphose
    4x Seething Song
    4x Desperate Ritual/rite of flame
    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Burning Wish
    4x Simian Spirit Guide
    2x Past in Flames
    3x Hazoret's Undying Fury
    4x Gifts Ungiven
    4x Ponder
    3x Gitaxian Probe
    4x Scalding Tarn
    2x Polluted Delta
    2x Volcanic Island
    1x Island
    1x Mountain
    4x Ancient Tomb

    Sideboard
    1x Goblin War Strike
    1x Grapeshot
    1x Empty the Warrens
    1x Past in Flames
    1x Hazoret's Undying Fury
    1x Diminishing Returns
    1x Act on Impulse
    2x Defense Grid
    2x Cave In
    1x By Force
    3x Pyroblast
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  16. #76
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,274

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    My current list im messing around with is


    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/689113#paper

    I'm just screwing around with the gifts ungiven. (see my previous post earlier this week.)

    It will likely end up either 2 Act on Impulse or 1 Act on Impulse + 1 led. Or something with an empty the Warrens.

    I need to test more. It's also possible I'll just run another Helm and 1 of those other cards just mentioned. Chandra feels like a good fit. It's easy to cast on turn 2 and even if you brick hard on hazoret's, it's still not too bad if you hit a Chandra.

    LED's work well with past in flames as well, so if you cut the LED's then the deck can also go back to 2 Past in Flames. Gifts version wants 3 Past in Flames so it can more easily kill on the spot. (keep in mind with gifts you likely want to run 2 pyretic ritual and 2 desperate instead of 4 desperate.
    -rob

  17. #77
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,274

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You've sucked me into this deck, lol. Your work that you've put into this is admirable.

    I think if Gifts is that good then it becomes a natural substitute over Reforge the Soul. It costs 1 less (or the same with a Medallion, not counting miracle cost.) Ponder/Brainstorm seem like they just have to be added, but maybe that's incorrect. With Gifts being essentially a 'tutor 4 cards' engine maybe its ok to be the only blue card in the deck. I'm curious to test it out, I have Magic Workstation and I can proxy it out and test it against a gauntlet (I use the DtB forum here for those decks, along with several other tier 2's.)

    4x Ruby Medallion
    4x Manamorphose
    4x Seething Song
    4x Desperate Ritual/rite of flame
    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Burning Wish
    4x Simian Spirit Guide
    2x Past in Flames
    3x Hazoret's Undying Fury
    4x Gifts Ungiven
    4x Ponder
    3x Gitaxian Probe
    4x Scalding Tarn
    2x Polluted Delta
    2x Volcanic Island
    1x Island
    1x Mountain
    4x Ancient Tomb

    Sideboard
    1x Goblin War Strike
    1x Grapeshot
    1x Empty the Warrens
    1x Past in Flames
    1x Hazoret's Undying Fury
    1x Diminishing Returns
    1x Act on Impulse
    2x Defense Grid
    2x Cave In
    1x By Force
    3x Pyroblast
    i thought about running ponder in this list too. definitely something that would make the deck more consistent. you could consider cutting 1 fury and 1 burning wish for 2 of something else. also the probes are average in a deck like this. you'll also want minimum 2/2 split with desperate ritual pyretic if you plan on running gifts. last thing to note is that the gifts combo works only if you have a reduction artifact in play. (i haven't figured out how much mana you need to start off with if you have none...but i imagine around 12-15 mana). consider running a helm or two over the probes. don't underestimate reforge the wheel. it's really dumb and it eventually overwhelms most blue decks.

    anyway, i don't want to be too dismissive! good luck w/ the list and let us know how it goes.
    -rob

  18. #78
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,274

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    So I just had a dismal league experience. I'm pretty sure that 14 lands while seems optimal for hazoret's is just not consistent enough for interactive games.

    I think 15-16 lands is probably a safer bet, especially with the Chandra build which has the ability to go midrange a bit.

    It also makes more sense to run rite of flame as its generally better than desperate unless if you draw multiple desperate with a ruby/Helm out.

    I just likes desperate as it is better with a rock out, but there is definitely more variance regarding the initial hand when low on red mana sources. (initial red)

    I know vieko is testing out some other builds working more around LED and sticking to mono red. So we will see how that plays out.
    -rob

  19. #79
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    i thought about running ponder in this list too. definitely something that would make the deck more consistent. you could consider cutting 1 fury and 1 burning wish for 2 of something else. also the probes are average in a deck like this. you'll also want minimum 2/2 split with desperate ritual pyretic if you plan on running gifts. last thing to note is that the gifts combo works only if you have a reduction artifact in play. (i haven't figured out how much mana you need to start off with if you have none...but i imagine around 12-15 mana). consider running a helm or two over the probes. don't underestimate reforge the wheel. it's really dumb and it eventually overwhelms most blue decks.

    anyway, i don't want to be too dismissive! good luck w/ the list and let us know how it goes.
    Without protection I think probe is more important, for planning turns. I've been goofing around with mono-red storm for years because I didn't have cash for duals/etc. The game changer is Fury (Mind's Desire for 4.) I've tried u-r storm with shocklands, even gone so far as to play Goblin Bushwhacker/EtW as my win-cons. I've tried Young Pyromancer as a secondary 'storm' engine that helps get value even if I fizzle. The power level is there, the speed is there, the consistency is simply *not* there. Fury really is a game changer, honestly, because it makes it so you have a higher chance of getting a payoff card in your opener. Reforge and EtW were the only payoff cards (PiF is only great if you have a Grapeshot/EtW already in hand.) Probe was a free way to just draw more cards, just like Manamorphose is a way to essentially just draw extra cards while adding storm.

    From memory, this is what I was last playing about a year ago for a budget mono-red storm deck:

    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Rite of Flame
    4x Desperate Ritual
    4x Rite of Flame
    4x Simian Spirit Guide
    4x Manamorphose
    4x Gitaxian Probe
    4x Overmaster
    4x Burning Wish
    3x Empty the Warrens
    4x Reforge the Soul
    2x Past in Flames
    3x Arid Mesa
    3x Bloodstained Mire
    8x Mountain
    1x Dwarven Ruins

    Sideboard
    1x Past in Flames
    1x Empty the Warrens
    1x Grapeshot
    1x Burst of Speed (for some reason I never discovered Goblin War Strike)
    4x Pyroblast
    3x Tormod's Crypt
    4x Lightning Bolt

    The emphasis was to just mulligan into a fast EtW/Reforge the Soul and hope it gets there. It was unequivocally an EtW deck almost exclusively. Ruby Medallion just wasn't on my radar because I wanted pure speed (and I had no problem getting to 4-5 mana for a payoff card.) With Fury (and to a lesser extent Act on Impulse) I think the Medallion more than makes up for its two mana cost, probably generating in the ballpark of 3-5 extra mana after its paid for. Playing Gifts storm in modern really opened my eyes to the potential of a cost reducer fueling broken storm chains. If there was even *one* more ritual in modern like Pyretic/Desperate the deck would be a consistent turn 3 deck, no doubt.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  20. #80
    Global Moderator
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Copenhagen
    Posts

    2,274

    Re: Mono Red Storm

    So it's entirely possible that a different thread could be opened for a legacy UR gifts deck, with some better mana and fixing, cantrips etc.

    I think for the mono red thread we should stick to seeing what the most optimal builds are. The deck is still in its infancy, and its highly suspect to change quite a bit.

    If you start a new thread for UR gifts, I'd be happy to help contribute.
    -rob

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)