Yeah, I've definatly seen where multiple reducers can really make Commune go. I dunno what I'd drop for it though. Maybe 2 LEDs, as I find I cast them more for storm count than anything. But, any time I think about dropping them I goldfish a game where they were needed for the black mana with Tendrils.
EDIT: Also, without Guttersnipe I'm not really liking the MB bolts as much. I may go with 2 more desperate rituals. But, I'm going to wait until I play some real matches to determine that. I've got about half the deck sleeved up and all but 6 cards (2 Medallions, 1 commune with Lava, 2 Bolts and 1 Ancient Tomb) in the mail to me.
Last edited by escobert; 02-04-2018 at 08:31 PM.
The bolts are good, but guttersnipe is definitely a better card for the deck. Before filling the deck with more rituals it might make sense to play 1/2/3 snipes.
Right now I'm on 7 rocks, but realistically it could. Be 5 or 6 and 1/2 snipes respectively.
The bolts would be best in a high delver/dnt/pile meta.
-rob
Wow, I love the look of the updated first post. Treating Guttersnipe and the Ruby's in a similar fashion is a great idea. I see that it also reduces the number of seemingly random (but not random) 1ofs in the main. (Gamble/shreds/helm etc) I really need to get more practice in with the deck instead of looking at it longingly.
I'm glad to see there were updates with commune with lava, was going to ask the other day before I forgot.
It's been awhile since I read the entire thread, but what was the consensus on bedlam reveler as a potential draw 3? Seeing mardu pyromancer in modern just led me to wondering. I'll guess likely not, but wanted to double check to be sure it was covered.
Edit: While Ali from Cairo has some definite style points, there is a likely much cheaper alternative in Fortune Thief, just costs 1 more. However, how does it stop elves as a free win? It'll stop crater hoof stuff, but a single Deathrite activation afterwards is game over isn't it? (A dear friend and elves expert will occasionally use Elder scale Wurm to blow out some players in a similar fashion and we'd regularly discuss how to get around it.)
ali says anything that would reduce your life to less than 1 reduces it to 1. i imagine that should stop them from killing you. fortune thief is the same. they have no ways of killing a 4cc creature in their 75. (unless if i'm reading something wrong on the rules text).
i'm still not convinced that commune is the best version, but it's definitely one of the more powerful versions that has effects that only are one-sided. it will need more testing, as guttersnipe has already proven itself. haven't had time to test bolt yet, but it's rarely a bad card in mtg as a whole.
-rob
From the gatherer on Fortune Thief-
The first ability applies only if your life total is being reduced by damage. Other effects or costs (such as “lose 1 life” or “pay 1 life”) can reduce your life total below 1 as normal
So hoof for a ton then Deathrite to finish the job is my understanding. If they see the play of course.
Also, was totally unaware this existed till now, likely under powered but always good to know.
Crash Through
R Sorcery
Creatures you control gain trample til end of turn.
Draw a Card.
So R draw a card that doesn't actually need a target to cast. Could be something if that's an effect someone was looking for.
ah crap. yea that's right.
if you're looking for R cantrip, just play overmaster. i'm not really on board with that plan.
-rob
I like Guttersnipe for making shorter storm chains lethal with BW > Grapeshot. I will be cutting 1x Helm and 2x Warrens (1 maindeck ETW still) to get 3 copies of Snipe in.
I'm still on the Overmaster plan...playing 3 main. I know mistercakes is opposed to it, but I haven't been disappointed yet.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
My biggest concern with Guttersnipe is he's a 3 mana 2/2 that doesn't dodge any removal in the format. I do think he plays well with the deck but, it's not like the deck has issues getting to a 10 storm count for empty or tendrils.
In my testing with him in the list, I was able to do some fun stuff but I just think he's too susceptible to removal.
Maybe sideboard material then, but others have said he has done really well. I don't think we cast him unless we plan on winning the same turn, and he is typically 2 mana with a reducer.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I didn't play guttersnipe for a very long time. After playing it in two weeklies, the little guy is actually very good. Even if he eats a removal spell.
-rob
It's honestly fine in any version. Unfortunately, you have to play actual matches with the deck to see it. It's one of those cards that looks bad on paper, and then turns out great. (eg. Tarmogoyf, gurmag angler, arcbound ravager)
-rob
Played in a $2k Saturday 2/3/2018 @ Top Deck Games, NJ, monthly event, 39 people, 6 rds cut to T8
Overall, finished with a record of 3-3. One of those wins was on paper cause my opponent wanted to go hang with his gf, so he dropped. One of those loses was because I forgot to desideboard, and called myself out on it. I would've won that g1*, and did win g2, lost g3. So, karma balanced, record balanced, some good and bad things. The list I played (was missing the 3rd PiF in MD, replaced with RtS, who'd think PiF was a hard card to find between 3 LGS the night before.)-
// Legacy - Ruby Storm-L.Bolt/snipe
// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
// 4 Creature
4 Guttersnipe
// 10 Instant
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
2 Lightning Bolt
// 14 Land
11 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
// 20 Sorcery
4 Rite of Flame
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Reforge the Soul
// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Silent Gravestone
// 2 Creature
SB: 2 Scab-Clan Berserker
// 11 Sorcery
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Cave-In
SB: 1 Mizzium Mortars
SB: 1 Telemin Performance
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Sowing Salt
M1 - Jack - ANT
G1 - I played, t2 killed. A probe t1, then AdN down to 4, lots and lots of Tendrils copies.
G2 - I played, mull to 6. First note is that I should've mullled from 6 to 5, it was the same 6, minus a petal from the 1st 7, and a petal was the first draw. The shuffler is the devil, it is known. He fizzled on turn 2 (storm > 11, had bounced my Scab-Clan, AdN down to 5, then g.probe to 3), had revealed the wrong card on Infernal Tutor. My turn 3 I recast Scab-Clan, and he would've died upon resolution. He punted, but I'll take that fair catch.
G3 - He played, both mull to 6. Turn 2, lots of storm, AdN down to 8, was never in this game. Can't remember if I had a Scab-Clan in hand or not.
(0-1, 1-2)
M2 - Noah - BUG Food Chain
G1 - He doesn't really do much. I snap bolted a first turn DRS. On my t4 I storm for 10 Goblins, he had made a strix or two. Right before the game ended, he cast an Eternal Scourge with a Food Chain out, basically untapped it. But too little, too late.
G2 - Got there by t4, on the back of Guttersnipe. On my turn 2 I was able to ping 3 with three spells, for 5 triggers (an AoI exiled another Snipe.) A few turns not drawing anything that would draw spells, just sat there and waited, casting another Snipe. One spell with 3 triggers drops him to 2, then a bolt the next turn would be -7. He never really got going in this game, was kind of a passenger. He cast a V.Clique, and my one card in hand was a mountain I decided not to play.
(1-1, 3-2)
M3 - Ed - RG Lands
G1 - He played, I mulled to 5. Died so fast, not many notes. He dredged into DD with loam, and I died shortly there after.
G2 - I played. I got three Snipe triggers, and then died to DD token again.
Ed decides he wants to bounce after testing some modern proxy deck, so I I get to continue with a win.
(2-1*, 5-3*)
M4 - Zach - ANT
G1 - He played, I mulled to 6. His turn 3, he naturally storms and makes about 12 goblins. He's at 15 after three fetches and a g. probe. My turn, I go yolo, get a Snipe in play, a trigger, have storm at about 5, and flip an AoI with mana in pool, and a BW, and another castable spell, no two black sources for Tendrils, but can likely make about 16 goblins or so. From the AoI, I see a silent gravestone. whomp whomp
G2 - I cast a t2- Scab-Clan, he concedes. After reading the card, and realizing what it does, he makes a face. That face was worth my entry fee, so while not as good as I had hoped, the day was somewhat worthwhile.
G3 - He cast EtW for 12 goblins, I try to dig at 6 life, but couldn't find it, c'est la vie.
(2-2*, 6-5*)
M5 - Ryan - Lands
G1 - I mulled, he played. He doesn't do much, kinda derping. On t4 I win with a storm of ~8+ but using snipe triggers to get him to 4, and an overkill with Tendrils.
G2 - He played. I quick out a Scab, hits, does 2 pings. He doesn't do much, ghosted his own land for a green source. Played a chasm, stopped Scab and a played Snipe. Paid the cost twice, dropping from 14 to 8. Couldn't find any of his combo pieces, I storm out with 3 rocks in play on turn 6 or 7 with Tendrils.
(3-2, 8-5)
M6 - Nick - Miracles
G1 - He played. He has no idea what I'm on, first guests Dragon Storm. Basic mountain pass threw him for a loop. He fetched three times, cast a FoW on Reforge, took a snipe trigger in between. I would've kept with the self-masturbatory nonsense, but the kill is in my gy with Snipe triggers and he concedes. I cast the mana and have it float in pool. I bait him with a Reforge, he counters, then I cast PiF, and cast Reforge anyway. Lots of triggers. It was a fun game.
G2 - He played, I mull to 5. He has the jist now, an early C. Balance counters a Snipe. Never really get in the game with my draws, die to snappy beats slowly. This is funny because he didn't want me to slow play G1, yet he is attacking with a sole Snappy and he has another 2 in hand, and I'm doing nothing. Oh the hypocrisy.
G3 - I play. We go back and forth a bit, he FoW'd an AoI, stops me for that salvo. Lets mana rocks, Gravestone resolve, counters Snipe, Draw. Then, in a moment that might've swung the game in his favor, we were both down to 1 or no cards in hand. He cast perdict, knowing I had an LED on top (Unexpectedly Absent). I had a Silent Gravestone in play, could've used it to draw the LED, limiting his draw from two to one. I later crack the Gravestone in resp to him casting a Wear//Tear. Probably should've cracked it previously. He get's Search for Azcanta flipped, and just pulls away on card draw. By the time he cast Entreat the Angels for 3, non-Miracled, I try to go yolo, but he's got about 5 counterspells in hand. My game is done, I had drawn a bunch of lands.
(3-3, 9-7)
How I felt on the day - mixed results. The Guttersnipes were awesome, always happy to see. They were a wincon, but folks didn't focus on them, too worried about what storm count was, or what might grab with BW, and the Snipes did lots of work. Happy to see rocks, folks usually didn't molest them, maybe a bounce here or there. Typically, I was either super game, or just dead in the water. ANT was just faster, and the lands seemed like a coin flip. In G2 of M3 he durdled a bit, and I could've cast BW for Sowing Salt, but he had a Ghost Quarters that would've blanked it. With loam, a moot point.
Was typically happy with my SB, Scab-Clan is a go, the Gravestones felt way better than T. Crypt. Missed the Defense Grids for that lone Miracles match-up.
Really though, I missed not seeing Act on Impulse. I'm switching in some Commune with Lava on 'Trice to try it. Deck needs more draw, more than just cantrip. Also, 3 PiF feels wrong. There were a few games I had two in hand, that's completely worthless. Even two BW represent more options than just four copies of PiF in two cards. I also coin-flip kept Mizzix in my board rather than Hull Breach. I felt I wanted Breach, but didn't really miss it, maybe against Counterbalance, but that game BW, or the Hull Breach, weren't gonna resolve anyway.
After the game, my 12 Post friend and I played a few no-SB games with our decks and I rolled him. Then we swapped, he floundered at first. After he got use to the need to mulligan, and just to trust the flips with AoI, he started rolling me. He became a hesitant convert, wanted to see more draw spells, Reforge especially.
And not sure where to put this, but I'm mixed on fetches vs. all mountains. Budget reasons, I'm on A.Tomb than City of Traitors. I do like that A.Tomb sticks around, there hasn't been a situation where the two mana from A.Tomb, would have saved the day, but couldn't use because of life loss. Basically, flips with AoI, or Reforge and grabbing a grip that's land heavy, that's sad town. What to do? I like 14 lands, my friend wanted 15 lands.
My match-ups were weird, two ANT, two Lands, Miracles, BUG Food Chain.
What I plan to play with upcoming:
// Legacy - Ruby Storm-Snipe/Commune
// Sideboard a work in progress, Goblin War Strike, Grapeshot, Flame Slash, Mizzium Mortars, Collective Defiance, Fiery Gambit, anger of the gods, Telemin Performance, slaughter games, tormod's crypt, scab-clan berserker
// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
// 3 Creature
3 Guttersnipe
// 11 Instant
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
3 Commune with Lava
// 14 Land
11 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
// 20 Sorcery
4 Rite of Flame
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Reforge the Soul
2 Past in Flames
// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Silent Gravestone
// 2 Creature
SB: 2 Scab-Clan Berserker
// 11 Sorcery
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Cave-In
SB: 1 Mizzium Mortars
SB: 1 Telemin Performance
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Sowing Salt
Last edited by ahg113; 02-06-2018 at 12:56 PM.
thanks for the report. great info here. your 75 looks pretty good. haven't tested a maindeck tendrils, i suppose it could be okay. how were the bolts? good to hear about the gravestone, although sometimes crypt can be good vs storm.
the hard part for me is always sticking with 4 ruby and 0 medallion. it's probably correct, and frees up some goodstuff slots. i'll suck it up and go back to the 4. wondering if you would have lost the first game vs food chain without that bolt.
also, sowing salt? purpose here?
-rob
I did like bolt. Don't want four, but as a bit of interaction, disrupt their dudes, reach for the last bit of kill, or an outlet for excess mana, storm count, bolt is a good stuff card on color.
Sowing salt is really corner case against silly stuff like chasm, or the dark depths combo. Not always relevant, but snagging a cloudpost, or an eldrazi temple can really help turn a game if done quickly without waiting for the perfect hand. Can't wait too naturally sculpt your hand a card per turn? Use sowing salt to screw over opponent, a don't lose, instead of, go for win, type selection.
I had tried 3 ruby, 2 stone before, while stone helps with twndrils, other stones, artifact hate, I really hated helping my opponents. Couldn't get overy that hurdle. Now with Commune in deck, may try again, 4r/1h.
i guess it depends on your meta, but i'd stay away from the land destruction. tendrils also gets around chasm btw.
i'll try going down to 2 commune with 4 ruby. 4 snipes, 2 bolts, and 2 pif. rest is 4's and lands will be 12 mtn, 2 tomb (tomb is better in the commune build, but i think CoT is better in an aggro metagame).
i think an argument can be made to cut 1 snipe for a 15th land or a singleton helm, the 13th mountain is prob better though if you are playing in 6+ round tourneys.
Last edited by mistercakes; 02-07-2018 at 09:47 AM.
-rob
Testing 2 tomb, 2 cot, 12 mtn, 2 snipe, 2 commune, 2 bolt.
Bolts could be other stuff, but I like the versatility.
On the + side, I got to sell two control of the court for 45 euros each.
-rob
I'm about 99% convinced to play this next weekend at a legacy 1k. I have some changes I have been working through, and overall my confidence with the deck has grown considerably since I started with it. Here is my current list, with slots that are flexible for changes. I like Lightning Bolt a lot, will playing 3 maindeck. Guttersnipe in the board for sure. I just need a little help deciding if my sideboard is up to scratch, maindeck is fairly well locked in.
4x Ruby Medallion
4x Rite of Flame
4x Seething Song
4x Lotus Petal
3x Desperate Ritual
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Act on Impulse
4x Manamorphose
1x Shreds of Sanity
3x Past in Flames
1x Hazoret’s Undying Fury
4x Burning Wish
1x Empty the Warrens
2x Overmaster
3x Lightning Bolt
10x Mountain
4x Crystal Vein
Sideboard
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Past in Flames
1x Grapeshot
1x Goblin War Strike
1x Reforge the Soul
1x Pyroclasm
3x Guttersnipe
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Scab-Clan Berserker
1x Ensnaring Bridge
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Yeah, after you mentioned them I was gonna buy them for the maybeboard. Maybenot board now. Not worth it for me IMO when the otherstuff is good enough.
went 4-3 at a 70+ person tournament. Beat Mono R sneakx2, Tes, Miracles. Lost to UR delver, Czech, and food chain, which happened to have the super nuts combo speed game 3. Shrug. I also had Super nuts for the following turn though. 5-2 would have prized as well.
the Czech match was rough. Game 1 was thoughtseize, hymn, hymn, fow+blue Fow+blue in that order. With a deathrite in there somewhere.
Game 2 was deathrite, deathrite, deathrite locking me out of PIF and Mizz. Normally doesn't feel that bad, but that match did.
UR delver has just enough disruption and a great clock. I'd add that to bad matchups. I think worse than Grixis Delver possibly, but let you all decide that.
I sided out 1 mizz and brought in 1 PIF to make that change to the main deck. Still have 1 in md and sb though.
In that czech pile matchup there was a time where i faithless looting 5 times in one turn, then next turn topdecked the past in flames. Laugh it off, but mildly tilting. I think the Faithless COULD be Gamble, and actually work very well. Get land when I need it and allow for better PIF chains. Probably more keepable hands as well. usually when I loot I know what I am looking for, and many times it is PIF or Burning Wish, or I have too many redundant cards in hand and no rits. Even getting Rite and pitching it at rando would be good for the next rite. I think the skill required for gamble is more though knowing odds, knowing the patterns and plays, not tilting to the pitch etc.
Think my Sideboard needs some work though. Slaughter Games shined a bit this weekend, but meh. Blood Moon probably still good.
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