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Thread: Ruby Storm

  1. #1001
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    heyo!

    http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD07891K/

    lady edith? anyone?

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...gue-2018-02-17

    congrats! happy to see some of the old cards in there like ssg and reforge.

    would love to hear what matchups, and if you're happy with your 4x blood moon plan. i gave up on that one a while ago. (after ssg was dropped it wasn't a reliable turn 1, but you've kept 2 so maybe it's fair). it can be awkward with guide off of act on impulse.

    any other choices? i know the hazoret's is more or less just a dice roll to see if you win or lose, still might prefer a 3rd PiF or a guttersnipe. even an empty seems like a better hail mary most of the time. anyway it's great to get on the map again.


    2 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Act on Impulse
    4 Burning Wish
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
    2 Past in Flames
    3 Reforge the Soul
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Seething Song
    2 Helm of Awakening
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Ruby Medallion
    4 Ancient Tomb
    10 Mountain


    1 Past in Flames
    1 Reforge the Soul
    4 Blood Moon
    1 By Force
    1 Empty the Warrens
    2 Grapeshot
    2 Leyline of the Void
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Pyroclasm
    -rob

  2. #1002
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    yea i think the dragonstorm deck is worth sleeving up. it's definitely the best way to abuse mizzix's mastery. the dragon backup plan is honestly fine too, which is a bit odd for 2018 legacy.
    Thundermaw Hellkite FTW.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  3. #1003
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    after looking over the last 5-0 list, i wanted to rethink how i approach the deck.

    i think if not going with the guttersnipe plan, the best plan is to overload in a single turn.

    been goldfishing with the following:


    4 act on impulse
    4 manamorphose
    4 gitaxian probe
    4 seething song
    4 rite of flame
    4 burning wish
    3 hazoret's undying fury
    3 past in flames
    4 lion's eye diamond
    4 lotus petal
    4 ruby medallion
    2 helm of awakening
    2 lightning bolt
    2 ancient tomb
    12 mountain


    i gave up on hazoret's as i never really tried it with LED extensively. i also always paired hazoret's with reforge the soul, which is great when it happens, but i think it's a bit of a trap.

    i haven't spent too much time on the sb. the major difference i've been testing with is always choosing to play 2nd (on the draw). the extra card allows for better mulligans and you should optimally aim for a turn 3 kill (unless if opponent is non-blue, then you can always choose to play first).

    the only exception being show and tell since they are blue and can win fast, it may be an issue by drawing first.
    -rob

  4. #1004
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    pretty satisfied with the hazoret's list overall, but also am proposing another list.

    i have also spent some time goldfishing with ANT (i never really played the deck much as I was a doomsday player exclusively until I couldn't find time to play it....then i wasn't quick enough to make all the piles and felt bad always going to time), and realized that this deck is just extremely consistent compared to the ruby deck.

    the issue here is that the ruby deck is still pretty consistent, but in a lot of ways it's just doing what ANT does worse.

    the approach i'm taking here is very close to the hazoret's list, but asking myself what can this deck do that ANT would love to do, but can't due to maximizing efficiency (or b/c of ad nauseam).

    ANT would love to play bolts and more empty.

    so for the latest build i'll test:


    4 act on impulse
    4 manamorphose
    4 gitaxian probe
    4 seething song
    4 rite of flame
    4 burning wish
    3 empty the warrens
    3 past in flames
    4 lion's eye diamond
    4 lotus petal
    4 ruby medallion
    4 lightning bolt
    2 ancient tomb
    12 mountain


    i know there's a bunch of people that have pushed the warrens build, but not so many that have pushed it as much with LED and haven't really seen it tested with the 4 bolt approach. usually 6 goblins won't be enough in most legacy matches, but maybe with 4 bolts it's going to be able to do something that a light empty normally would fail to do. because it's just the 3 empty, the deck is still quite capable of doing all the crazy storm stuff, including tendrils for lethal quite easily.

    the only major design drawback i see here is that it might be harder to beat the miracles deck, and it will have a more difficult lands matchup than the guttersnipe builds.

    anyway, still need to test.
    -rob

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    Re: Ruby Storm

    I think the synergy that Lightning Bolt has with Ruby Storm is enough to include it, even though most other storm lists won't want it. It's adds 5 damage to a Tendrils chain, 4 damage to a Grapeshot chain, and "3 goblins" to an Empty chain. Looking back at Modern's earlier attempts at Storm variants with Pyromancer Ascension, some lists didn't even use Grapeshot but instead just used Lightning Bolt along with Past in Flames. Ascension doubled the Bolts and PiF recast them (sometimes doubled again.) This brings up the unique protection angle that this storm list has that others don't: targeted removal in the maindeck instead of discard. The way this version of storm is built it relies on a critical mass of redundancy rather than filtering spells like Brainstorm, raw draw power instead of cheap filtering. Lightning Bolt does exactly what the deck needs, whereas in TES/ANT it would be critical slots sacrificed for little gain. (I'm curious why you think ANT would love Bolts? I would think they don't really want them at all...)

    Add to that the Guttersnipe plan (sideboard for me) and it all of a sudden becomes an agro/combo deck that can clear blockers/hatebears, attack with Snipe or Gobbo tokens, and has reach with Grapeshot/Bolt.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  6. #1006
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    On Tuesday I'll try 3 bolt, 2 haz, 1 helm, 2 empty the warrens, 2 pif rest is 4s.

    feeling pretty good about this list. not running any shenanigans sb stuff.

    (also worth mentioning that i still want to test this last 5-0 list. it's been a while since i had a dedicated list with reforge. not sure how well the blood moon plan worked out. too bad no feedback from the player on their matchups)
    Last edited by mistercakes; 03-04-2018 at 05:54 PM.
    -rob

  7. #1007
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Game 1: on the draw (lost dice roll)
    opponent plays verdant
    I start w/ mountain, rof, manamorphose, led, led, bw, empty

    Game 2:
    Opponent boards a lot of cards, I board out helm and hazoret's for abrade and reforge.
    He has turn 0 leyline
    Collective brutality on my burning wish
    I cast ruby and pass
    He plays dark confidant
    I follow up with manamorphose, petal #2, reforge into #3 mountain -> Rof, cast ruby#2. Sac petal for Red, cast AoI for R.

    Flip AoI, probe, manamorphose. Play LED, LED, cast AoI and eventually chain into an empty for 30+ goblins.

    Pass turn and I lucked out b/c he had in his deck 2 golgari charm and a toxic deluge. He didn't hit any in the top 9. (I didn't bother checking what I had next in the event that he did wipe my board).

    R2: 4c leovold (lost dice roll)
    G1: I tendrils him on turn 3
    G2: I almost power through leovold, deathrite, force, fluster, 2 hydroblast, surgical (on burning wish) and 2 hymn.
    G3: Similar to game 2 except he FoW'd a defense grid.

    R3: UB reanimator (lost dice roll)
    G1: I kept a risky 6 with no lands but a lotus petal, and scry'd a nonland to the bottom. Never drew a mountain.
    G2: I had a turn 2 kill. After probing it looked safe enough to wait. He drew lotus petal and turn 1 iona.

    R4: ANT (lost dice roll)
    G1: I was able to turn 1 with a lucky 6 (bw on top). Probe, RoF, RoF, Ruby, Song, AoI -> into a few cards to kill with tendrils
    G2: had a few spells to get there, but not enough business spells and just sort of durdled a bit.
    G3: had a turn 1 rof petal 2 led bw into reforge, but with R floating and no land drop was only able to draw a land. No other accelerants. Drew 4 probes. He discarded some gas (BW I think) on my part and I was unable to draw another business spell fast enough.

    Overall the deck ran fine. I expected to lose vs UB reanimator and ANT is a bit of a coin flip.

    The maindeck was good, the only game 1 where I lost was vs reanimator. The bolts did pretty good overall.

    Out of the sb, I will cut Goblin War Strike and the Cave-In, which is worse with maindeck bolts.

    Still haven't figured out what the other 2 cards will be, but am leaning towards a 3rd grid and something else.

    Can also consider cutting 2 tormod's crypts and the 2 berserkers, but will need to evaluate options again.

    will update tomorrow w/ sb. (I'll try 3 bolt, 2 haz, 1 helm, 2 empty the warrens, 2 pif rest is 4s.)

    never got to resolve hazoret's (was countered both times, and both times i really didn't invest much mana prior, had a ruby and 4 lands in play for first one, 5 lands in play for the 2nd one)

    TL:DR
    goblins is probably good enough.
    better sb options could have improved the 4c pile.
    reanimator is normally favored vs storm, so that's an acceptable loss
    ANT is a coinflip, and whiffed on a reforge when it counted in game 3.

    afterthoughts:
    it's possible that the build with the 3 reforge and blood moon sb is good vs a 4c metagame, so will have to test it. the guides and 4 tombs also make the deck probably a full turn faster than 0 guides and 2 tomb.

    i like the maindeck in the current build as well, so i will test grids & blood moons (one or the other) and test vs grixis delver and 4c pile. the combo decks are a bit of a race/sideboarding and not as relevant for testing purposes. it's quite clear what the goal is in each case.
    Last edited by mistercakes; 03-07-2018 at 07:48 AM.
    -rob

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    Re: Ruby Storm

    I would think the Bolts would go a long ways with dealing with DRS, which is a linchpin in 4c. Blood Moon is good, but killing Deathrite is a priority for sure. I see very little 4c in my metagame so I dropped the Moons from my sideboard a month ago and replaced it with another 2 Guttersnipes. The other thing I've been doing is trying (hard!) to just leave it alone and get a bunch of games in to see which lines can be taken. Some games are non-games where I just spin my wheels, but that's the nature of any storm deck really. I've been more aggressive in mulligans, especially on the draw.

    I've also been watching some Belcher videos lately too, which shows how much of a glass cannon that deck is compared to Ruby Storm. I have gone off with only 2 cards in hand before, just making land drops and ripping a Past in Flames/Shreds of Sanity. Rebuilding a storm chain is completely reasonable. One thing that I did take away from Belcher is that Desperate Ritual speeds the deck up significantly, especially in the absence of a Medallion/Helm. Getting to 3 mana for Seething Song, or just an Act on Impulse>pass the turn is very important. I couldn't reliably do that with Simian Spirit Guide. LED would be effectively useless for this particular angle because I would be looking to draw into more action, not play BW>crack LED in response> PiF/EtW/RtS/etc.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  9. #1009
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    yep, but i'm already running bolts. the creatures weren't the issue when i lost.

    he had multiple FoW, fluster, surgical, hymn, blue blast?, thoughtseize. the bolts were effective at killing his guys (deathrites and leovolds), but in the end there was too much to power through.

    but if you haven't had much luck with blood moons i'll stick with the defense grids for now.
    -rob

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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    yep, but i'm already running bolts. the creatures weren't the issue when i lost.
    Yeah, the curve is so low, and if they have 2-3 fetchlands without fear of Wasteland then Deathrite Shaman isn't really needed. I know people say 4c has a fragile mana-base, but I think that sentiment is exaggerated. They have pretty good mana stability, even at 4 colors. Deathrite is key, but not crucial.

    he had multiple FoW, fluster, surgical, hymn, blue blast?, thoughtseize. the bolts were effective at killing his guys (deathrites and leovolds), but in the end there was too much to power through.

    but if you haven't had much luck with blood moons i'll stick with the defense grids for now.
    It really has to be turn 1, and that means it probably needs to be x4. I never had enough room to get 4 in the board. It could bait out a Force of Will, which is great, but if they spell pierce it because you can't get it t1, chances are good you'll still have to see Force later on. My take on grindy control decks like 4c and Miracles has been to just go for it...it's only going to get worse, so you just have to make them have the answers. If they do, but no threat, then I have usually been able to rebuild and try again. I'm not saying I win a lot, but at least it isn't a non-game after 1-2 pieces of interaction. I also play maindeck Overmaster, which can occasionally protect a key spell, but I dropped to 2 of them to get Bolts in there. My metagame has only a few blue decks, and the ones I see aren't really bothered by Overmaster, but Bolt does some real damage.

    Hymn to Tourach, paired with free Forces, is probably about as bad as it gets for ANY combo deck honestly, besides dredge.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  11. #1011
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    it's far from unwinnable, and i believe the matchup is actually favorable game 1. winning 1 of the 2 following games is reasonable, but the sb needs to be pretty tight.

    i won't play the blood moon plan unless if i'm on 4 tomb + guides, as it's the easiest way to maintain consistency if you have it in opening hand.

    grid, and to a lesser extent red blast seem to be the better cards here. at least with red blast you can take out a leovold, delver, ponder/brainstorm/probe, snapcaster, jace etc. if you play pyroblast it can up your storm count even if there's no blue spell/permanent.

    anywho, i think my current board will look like this:


    1 empty the warrens
    1 past in flames
    1 tendrils of agony
    1 grapeshot
    1 by force
    1 reforge the soul
    1 hazoret's undying fury
    2 scab-clan berserker
    2 silent gravestone
    4 defense grid


    the only slot i'm questioning a bit more now is the reforge the soul. it's pretty good if you are against non-blue decks and have more than 1 mana floating (or R floating with a ruby in play). this doesn't come up often enough, and for one more mana you can roll the dice with hazoret's instead. if you want a more deterministic kill, then right now it only looks like empty is the best choice if you can't storm 10.

    i'll go through gatherer and look for some other potential options.

    the only things i'm thinking of now are possible strong enchantments (like 4-6 mana ones that generate a lot of advantage or can end the game), considering running a silence or two (then i would need to find room for possibly for white mana although risking it with manamorphose/petal might be okay too), or some other big sorcery that could be effective vs the 4 color decks (possibly the destroy all lands and their owners find basics for each, or just ruination.)

    not sure though.

    only cards i can see worth testing that haven't really been named yet


    Chandra Ablaze
    Possibility Storm
    Mana Cache
    -rob

  12. #1012

    Re: Ruby Storm

    Looks like we might get a new toy in Dominaria...


    Spoiler















    ***********SPOILER ALERT**************
    Jaya Ballard
    2RRR
    Legendary Planeswalker — Jaya
    5
    +1: Add RRR. Spend this mana only to cast instant or sorcery spells.
    +1: Discard up to three cards, then draw that many cards.
    −8: You get an emblem with "You may cast instant and sorcery cards from your graveyard. If a card cast this way would be put into your graveyard, exile it instead."

    • Mana produced by Jaya's first ability can be spent among any number of instant and/or sorcery spells.
    • You choose how many cards to discard while Jaya's second ability is resolving. You can choose to discard zero cards this way (and then draw zero cards) if you wish.
    • Jaya's emblem doesn't grant you permission to do anything with instant and sorcery cards in your graveyard except cast them. For example, you can't cycle instant or sorcery cards with cycling from your graveyard.

  13. #1013
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    i already tried it last night on cockatrice.

    5 mana is a lot without ruby, 4 is playable. it can't protect itself like chandra (who is capable of making RR for anything, or drawing a single card).

    jaya draw ability doesn't play well with LED.

    i think if the deck is going to run planeswalker options, torch of defiance is better at 4, and the 6 mana chandras are better if you're willing to go for it. worldwake seems much better for 1 more mana, and the other one that makes two 3/1's. (the 2nd ability is the reason why).
    -rob

  14. #1014
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    been testing a bit more and wondering how i can improve the blue matchups without totally devoting the sb slots.

    usual 52 cards + 4 bolt + 4 pyromancer ascension.

    it was originally in the build when i first created the thread, but i was so hellbent on using it with hazoret's that i didn't realize how broken it already is with probe/manamorphose/act on impulse.

    the alternate build i'm running, which is more all in is running -4 pyromancer ascension and running 3 empty + 1 past in flames (although that pif can be a helm of awakening).

    i'll need to test the ascensions, but it seems pretty good for any games that need to go longer than 3 turns. i'll also test out 2 faithless looting and 2 ascensions, to help better round out the deck if the ascensions are clunky.
    -rob

  15. #1015

    Re: Ruby Storm

    Super excited to give Jaya a whirl. This was the first deck I thought of when it came to her. Likely desperate ritual over led but could be am engine simply pitching cards each turn.

  16. #1016
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    cool, hopefully it will surprise me. i wasn't very thrilled with it in goldfishing.

    i'm pretty happy with pyromancer ascension overall. there's a little variance in not drawing duplicates, but overall there's enough power and it helps vs all the discard decks as well.

    i did cut 1 to play a maindeck empty. i also have a dark petition in the sb now, so that way it can add another storm if for some reason i need to go for goblins and have 6 mana available instead.

    what i'll keep until i can jam some games:


    4 ruby medallion
    3 pyromancer ascension

    4 lion's eye diamond
    4 lotus petal

    4 rite of flame
    4 seething song
    4 manamorphose

    4 gitaxian probe
    4 act on impulse
    2 past in flames

    4 lightning bolt
    4 burning wish
    1 empty the warrens

    12 mountain
    2 ancient tomb


    sideboard

    2 grapeshot
    3 empty the warrens
    1 tendrils of agony
    1 past in flames
    1 by force
    1 dark petition
    1 gamble
    1 reforge the soul
    2 abrade
    2 silent gravestone


    to help sell you guys on dark petition:

    turn 1: tomb + Ruby

    turn 2:

    tap tomb + mtn, rof, seething, led, wish-> DP
    you finish that with RRRRBBB and get PiF from maindeck
    cast PiF for RRB then you have leftoer BBRR
    cast song -> then Dark Petition
    RRRRRBB before petition, RRBBB after petition
    get Wish, cast RoF so you hav RRRBBB, cast wish tendrils
    RoF, seething, led, wish, dp, pif, song, petition, rof, wish, tendrils (for 22)
    Last edited by mistercakes; 03-13-2018 at 03:19 AM.
    -rob

  17. #1017

    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post

    to help sell you guys on dark petition:

    turn 1: tomb + Ruby

    turn 2:

    tap tomb + mtn, rof, seething, led, wish-> DP
    you finish that with RRRRBBB and get PiF from maindeck
    cast PiF for RRB then you have leftoer BBRR
    cast song -> then Dark Petition
    RRRRRBB before petition, RRBBB after petition
    get Wish, cast RoF so you hav RRRBBB, cast wish tendrils
    RoF, seething, led, wish, dp, pif, song, petition, rof, wish, tendrils (for 22)
    I think you wind up with an additional mana during the turn so at some point you can even pay for daze. Nice!

  18. #1018

    Re: Ruby Storm

    I've been lurking on this for a little bit and am a huge fan of the deck. I'm still working on saving up for LEDs, what's the latest on replacement tech until then?
    I saw that someone mentioned adding 3 desperate rituals and a mountain, is that still the way to go? Are there other considerations?

    Thanks in advance!

  19. #1019
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Yep, and consider playing additional copies of Ruby Medallion (Helm of Awakening) which makes Desperate Ritual into Dark Ritual.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  20. #1020
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    i've noticed that if you have an active ascension out and cast a seething song (for 3 mana producing 10) that you can win if your other card is a burning wish. it requires that we cut the goblin war strike (easiest cut imho) and run a gamble in the sb.

    example:
    seething song (10 red)
    burning wish with (8 red).
    fetching gamble and past in flames.
    cast gamble getting manamorphose and burning wish. (discarding both). (7 remaining)
    cast past in flames (3)
    flashback seething song (10 remaining)
    cast manamorphose 8 red and 4 black.
    cast burning wish. 6 red and 4 black.
    get dark petition and tendrils.

    situation B) keeping manamorphose
    example:
    seething song (10 red)
    burning wish with (8 red).
    fetching gamble and past in flames.
    cast gamble getting manamorphose and burning wish. (discard PiF and wish). (7 remaining)
    cast manamorphose (9 remaining)
    flashback PiF (4 remaining)
    cast seething song (11 remaining)
    cast manamorphose (13 remaining)
    cast gamble (for any 2 cards)
    cast wish for tendrils


    situation C) keeping burning wish

    example:
    seething song (10 red)
    burning wish with (8 red).
    fetching gamble and past in flames.
    cast gamble getting manamorphose and burning wish. (PiF and manamorphose). (7 remaining)
    flashback PiF (2 remaining)
    flashback manamorphose (4 remaining)
    flashback seething song (11 remaining)
    flashback gamble for manamorphose and past in flames (discarding both) (10 remaining)
    flashback past in flames (5 remaining)
    flashback manamorphose (7 remaining)
    cast burning wish for dark petition and tendrils.

    lines get much easier if you have a ruby in play as well.
    happy storming!

    if you want to be really crazy you can go for this.

    example:
    seething song (10 red)
    burning wish with (8 red).
    fetching gamble and past in flames.
    cast gamble getting act on impulse and act on impulse. (discarding both). (7 remaining)
    cast past in flames (3)
    flashback seething song (10 remaining)
    cast act on impulse and act on impulse (flip 12 cards). (every probe and manamorphose is a draw 2, you can potentially start casting everything in your deck at this point).

    the only downside here is that if you discard the past in flames, you have to hit off of your first 6 cards. (but you only need mana, or more draw spells)
    Last edited by mistercakes; 03-13-2018 at 12:15 PM.
    -rob

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