I'm probably not BR mathing right, but i'm seeing 24: 2 castings of BR (plus 1 copy of BR) into to casting of fiery confluence + 3 copies of it, for 6x4= 24 damage.
Is that the line you are seeing?
edit - NVM, forgot the flashback again for the extra 24. got it!
Why is this dropping to the second page? who's got some results to share??
I have no recent results, I have been testing a new brew. (non combo) will return to this deck when I have some more time. Been goldfishing with it still from time to time. Have been trying out a 14 land build that runs 4 tomb, 6 mtn and 4 sandstone needle which seems to be decent. (4 ssg and 4 petal as well)
-rob
Losing Gitaxian Probe was huge. One of the ways that the deck, in any interation, fueled its engine was through raw card draw (Probe, Manamorphose) so losing 'free' cantrips has hurt it's ability to consistently combo out. Perfect information was fairly critical, as most lists didn't play protection, instead relying on brute force and Past in Flames.
While there remains plenty of engines to use (Past in Flames, Reforge the Soul, Bonus Round) they all get significantly better if you can get free spells after you cast them. The fewer free spells, the more you rely on cost reducers like Ruby Medallion/Helm of Awakening, or you have to commit to investing in Lion's Eye Diamond to gain enough mana (and work around it's discard clause) to have mana floating after casting an engine. I tried subbing in Overmaster for Probe (to maintain at least the draw and relevant ability if not the 'free' cost) but it was fairly miserable unless I already had a nutty-good hand.
My next attempt will be with 2x Gamble and Faithless Looting. It puts the deck into Past in Flames, almost assuredly, g1. That should be fine without DRS in the format. G2 it will, by necessity, lean on Empty the Warrens more. This should be fine. Without LED's it's a lot harder now without Probe; Probe really was the poor-man's combo enabler.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Pretty simple approach with this list
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Helm of Awakening
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
3 Reforge the Soul
3 Empty the Warrens
2 Past in Flames
6 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
SB
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Pyroclasm
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Past in Flames
1 Apex of Power
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Abrade
3 Defense Grid
1 Shattering Spree
1 Reforge the Soul
-rob
I really don't like Sandstone Needle here; entering tapped with more Wastelands in the format is an unnecessary risk. I fully support Sol Lands, but not ones that enter tapped. I would also caution against too much reliance on Reforge the Soul. It's the nuts against non-blue decks, but those are a strong minority in the format.
Also surprised to see no Bonus Rounds in the 75.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
So I actually dropped G.Probe before the ban (although the ban does seriously piss me off). The loss of life in conjunction with A. Tomb was actually losing me a few games here and there that would make a round closer than it needed to be.
This is the list I've been working with to good results. I still am not good at mulligan decisions (personal/personnel? problem). As with any deck, it will lose to itself if the shuffling is against you, too much mana, too much action, too much mana, etc., but it still just overpowers when the right mix is available. The SB could use some tweaking, maybe a Fiery Confluence, only not in deck because I've hit my internal budget for magic cards, maybe I can trade/store credit for one...
I've been a big fan of Commune with Lava, works great with LED, scales with Rubies, and is silly with Bonus Round (but what isn't). The instant part is a great trick to pull on folks, manamorphose (with rock), seething song, can cast those spells on opponents EOT and untap with all those cards in exile to expand options. To replace G.Probe, I moved to a split of Faithless Looting and Overmaster. I would rather G.Probe, but they do the job somewhat adequately. I've found F.Looting to be great early in the game to sculpt hands, and Overmaster while chaining spells, or to bait a counterspell. It is a good psychological bluff.
Ruby Storm - Lightning Bonus
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Commune with Lava
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Past in Flames
4 Rite of Flame
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
2 Faithless Looting
2 Overmaster
3 Bonus Round
SB
3 Defense Grid
1 Past in Flames
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 By Force
1 Cave-In
1 Pyroclasm
1 Shattering Spree
1 Chain Lightning
1 Banefire
1 Bonus Round
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
I'm currently going to test Bonus Round, but Commune with Lava seems very good to me. Surprisingly enough, most of the red rituals are instants, which makes an EOT Commune with Lava pretty good. You can dump SSG/Desperate/Seething Song into a decent sized Commune and have access until the next turn. I like it better than Reforge the Soul for sure.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I've tested that card heavily and it's fine. Pretty great with led. Not sure if it's better than Reforge even in the blue matchups bc you want defense grid and it's about the same as Reforge but usually less on your main phase. Still a nice card.
edit: sandstone is just being tested. i'd rather have sandstone needle in the deck over desperate ritual. (which both serve the purpose of +1).
testing without bonus round b/c the main benefit from bonus round was the interaction with manamorphose and probe. without probe it can be too much of an investment vs the blue decks without an immediate payoff.
-rob
Bonus Rd with the bolts, especially when you bonus rd a bonus rd. You guys did the math before i did, don't discount that ish. Bonus rd is much better than just a g.probe/manamorphose enhancer.
i agree, maybe i'm just jaded from my testing vs blue tempo decks.
also that sandstone needle deck could prob cut 2 helm for 2 hazoret's.
i do love bolt w/ bonus round.
-rob
it's a fine approach, and i liked it a lot. bolt with bonus round functions as an alternate kill to a storm-based kill.
-rob
Been playing my UR version alot lately(8 cantrips and 1 meditate as blue cards) Feels like I got game vs most decks but sometimes they just have 3-4 counters. Omnishow is probably the worst matchup as they have the tools to stop us and also can win really quick. Same with UB shadow, discard, counters and a quick clock.
I'm not sure there is a way to improve those matchups. I have two slots that I'm experimenting with that's currently 2 reforge.
i was watching togores replay from the last challenge and it's been a while since i played grixis storm. (i used to play doomsday heavily about 2 years ago and prior.)
during the replay he clobbered a bunch of blue decks, but the entire time he was heavily reliant on the discard. he took a few games with empty, but that still required him to discard interaction prior to finding it.
i suspect that just running 4 maindeck defense grids (it's been about a year since i tried that) can go really far.
another simple straightfoward list if you aren't into empty the warrens.
// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Defense Grid
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
// 2 Creature
2 Simian Spirit Guide
// 8 Instant
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
10 Snow-Covered Mountain
// 24 Sorcery
4 Rite of Flame
3 Reforge the Soul
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Faithless Looting
-rob
My SB plan usually involved -probes +grids FWIW.
How do you play your defence grids? ASAP or hold until you can play it and go off on the same turn? I've had so many destroyed grids so I'm currently trying to use it as a way to deploy multiple threats on one turn, but not really sure what's best...
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