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Thread: Ruby Storm

  1. #1481
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    I'm still waiting for the next few sets. Something will come, no need to force it.
    -rob

  2. #1482

    Re: Ruby Storm

    I honestly don't think the deck will get any new toys in a looong time. Or maybe the mono red version could get some cantrips, and maybe there could be some relevant sideboard cards. But I don't see them printing any better fast mana. That leaves business/draw, we have a lot of good >4 mana business already and i dont think there will be 1 mana spells that improves over brainstorm/ponder. So then there is 2/3 mana spells left. But how far can they push it? Not sure I would play 1R draw 2 cards, probably, but don't think they will print it. Red merchant scroll could maybe be good enough.

    My prediction is that we will have to work with what we have.

  3. #1483
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Does Runaway Steamkin have any merit for the big combo turns as a repetitive ritual? Or perhaps out of the board?

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  4. #1484

    Re: Ruby Storm

    I'm not 100% sure, but i don't think it's good enough. In the best case scenario it's basically add R for each spell you play, which basically is what ruby medallion does (neither helps blue spells). But this has more limitations because it's only after every third spell you get the mana. I think i rather would play Baral, but as i mentioned in another post, turning on opponents removal feels bad. This card have the upside that it can be used just as a 4/4 beater. This is just theorycrafting from my side, and i would love if someone tested it and found it to be good :)

  5. #1485
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    here's my current:


    // 60 Maindeck
    // 12 Artifact
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Ruby Medallion
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond

    // 12 Instant
    4 Seething Song
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Desperate Ritual

    // 14 Land
    3 Ancient Tomb
    7 Mountain
    4 Sandstone Needle

    // 22 Sorcery
    4 Burning Wish
    3 Rite of Flame
    4 Act on Impulse
    2 Past in Flames
    4 Bonus Round
    3 Reforge the Soul
    2 Hazoret's Undying Fury


    // 15 Sideboard
    // 2 Creature
    SB: 2 Hope of Ghirapur

    // 4 Enchantment
    SB: 4 Leyline of the Void

    // 9 Sorcery
    SB: 1 Rite of Flame
    SB: 1 Grapeshot
    SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
    SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
    SB: 1 Past in Flames
    SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
    SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
    SB: 1 Shattering Spree
    SB: 1 Reforge the Soul


    only other considerations are maybe running grids over hope, and also squeezing in 1-3 lightning bolts in the maindeck, but that would only be for a very high DNT meta.
    -rob

  6. #1486
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by JosefK View Post
    I'm not 100% sure, but i don't think it's good enough. In the best case scenario it's basically add R for each spell you play, which basically is what ruby medallion does (neither helps blue spells). But this has more limitations because it's only after every third spell you get the mana. I think i rather would play Baral, but as i mentioned in another post, turning on opponents removal feels bad. This card have the upside that it can be used just as a 4/4 beater. This is just theorycrafting from my side, and i would love if someone tested it and found it to be good :)
    I was kind of thinking it would fit better in the SB after your opponents take removal out. Idk though.

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  7. #1487

    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Manroe View Post
    I was kind of thinking it would fit better in the SB after your opponents take removal out. Idk though.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
    Maybe, SB space is tight tho.

  8. #1488

    Re: Ruby Storm

    Hello. Tournament report!

    Winter Legacy 2018 - Patriot Games Sheffield

    Deck List

    Main:
    4 Act on Impulse
    3 Ancient Tomb
    3 Bonus Round
    4 Burning Wish
    3 Desperate Ritual
    1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
    2 Helm of Awakening
    3 Lightning Bolt
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Manamorphose
    7 Mountain
    3 Past in Flames
    1 Reforge the Soul
    3 Rite of Flame
    4 Ruby Medallion
    4 Sandstone Needle
    4 Seething Song
    3 Tormenting Voice

    Sideboard:
    1 Banefire
    1 By Force
    3 Defense Grid
    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Grapeshot
    1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
    1 Past in Flames
    1 Reforge the Soul
    1 Rite of Flame
    1 Shattering Spree
    2 Silent Gravestone
    1 Tendrils of Agony

    1: Mono White 2-0

    The only cards of my opponent's I saw were Aether Vial, Kor Firewalker, Rishadan Port and Karakas so I don't know what he was playing really. I don't know legacy particularly well. Turn 2 Tendrils of Agony in the first game and turn 3 Banefire for 35 (with seven copies) in the second. No problems here. That Firewalker got my opponent up to 35 but it didn't matter. Port targeting Sandstone Needle is annoying.

    2: Sneak and Show 0-2

    I got crushed both games by Griselbrand and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. I'd have been fine, but for my opponent's seemingly obscene number of counters. He told me afterwards he had two Flusterstorm and two Force of Will in hand in game two. I brought in the three Defense Grid in game two and did my best to bait counters. Got through one, but then it was countered by Force pitching Force and I made a sad face.

    3: UW Stoneblade 2-0

    No problems here really. I had to play around some counters and never got the Defense Grid down. Still, turn four Tendrils of Agony then turn 5 Banefire for lots. I only won game two though because my opponent misplayed. Earlier they'd taken a while to counter something after Bonus Round and I made a point of saying "Bonus Round trigger on the stack" while he was thinking. Just to be helpful, like. He correctly said "let the trigger resolve, Flusterstorm, pay four". Again, being helpful, I say "actually it's five because it's copied by Bonus Round". I couldn't be any kinder than that, right? So then I cast Reforge the Soul, Bonus Round trigger on the stack and my opponent says "Force of Will the copy, the original resolves". I'm happy enough with that. He later remembers Bonus Round copies his spells too. I'll take it.

    4: Trinisphere All Three Games 1-2

    Did you know we can combo off through Trinisphere? I did. I haven't played many games with this deck but I'd played against Trinisphere. Still, though, it's tricky. I'd guess my opponent's deck more accurately would be "Mono Red Prison" and I died to Goblin Rabblemaster very quickly while I couldn't assemble. I never drew Burning Wish so I never got to Shattering Spree or By Force, so bad draws to some degree. My mistakes were not mulliganning aggressively enough and not playing Lotus Petal at the first opportunity. I could have won this. Oh, I also tried to play a three-mana Lightning Bolt into Chalice of the Void with one counter. With an Ancient Tomb. That was dumb. But hey, I won one game and I won it with eight three-mana Lightning Bolt to the face. Thanks, Bonus Round. Manamorphose for three mana is really good value when you get four of them.

    5: UW Control 2-1

    Managed to sneak under the counters game one for a turn five Tendrils of Agony win. Game two my opponent brought in Flusterstorm and I couldn't piece it together against Monastery Mentor and my two Past In Flames in hand matched up poorly against the Tormod's Crypt on my opponent's side of the field. Game three was interesting. I got Hazoret's Undying Fury with Burning Wish, cast it next turn (only four mana available and two Ruby Medallion), it got countered. Next turn played another and it resolved hitting enough card draw (Act on Impulse is a superstar[/cards] and just enough mana (mostly from a Seething Song off the Act) and a Bonus Round so I could fetch Banefire and Rite of Flame and Banefire for 10 doubled. He had graveyard hate so Past in Flames did nothing, Reforge the Soul is really bad against counters and he'd exiled Manamorphose with Surgical Extraction so no Tendrils of Agony (short of finding two Lotus Petal obviously but I couldn't go counting on that). That was a good, tense, end to the day. Even with Past in Flames, Reforge the Soul, Manamorphose and Tendrils (effectively) shut off, I pieced together a win with only Hazoret's Undying Fury in hand and a not-insignificant amount of luck.

    Wrap-up

    3-2 overall. 12th place out of 28.

    Why on earth are we not playing Pyroblast?

    I played against three blue decks and each time it felt like an uphill struggle. Even worse than Trinisphere (for which we have ways and means), Force of Will just feels insurmountable if they have it and it's everywhere. Silent Gravestone never got brought in. Are we consistently slower against Reanimator to the point that we need those two? I know it's a neat silver-bullet for some graveyard strategies and protects us against Surgical Extraction but I'd rather shore up our weakness against blue decks I think. I understand it's tricky because I only get five real sideboard slots but Force of Will scares me more than Reanimate. I might just be thinking that because of the meta in Sheffield though.

    Otherwise, the deck performed very well. I think every wish target was useful (or would have been had I drawn Burning Wish, Mr Trinisphere) at some point except Grapeshot and Empty the Warrens. We need the latter for Leyline of Sanctity. Maybe we don't need Grapeshot? Is that crazy? I almost never cast it even when goldfishing and when I do I could just as easily win with Banefire. Oh yeah, and you should definitely all be playing Banefire. It gets you wins other cards wouldn't get and is insane with Bonus Round.

    I also had quite a lot of people complimenting the deck. The judge congratulated me on my result and for bringing "the most interesting deck". Someone said he'd seen the deck online a few times but had never seen anyone play it in paper. I know I'm preaching to the converted here, but this is a super-sweet option for paper legacy. It's also much easier to play in paper just because you can shortcut through all the Bonus Round triggers.

    I'm pretty happy with my result for a first legacy tournament and this deck is pretty legit. I have to give Pyroblast some real thought but otherwise I like my build of the deck and it's proven itself very consistent and powerful.

    Thanks, mistercakes, I had a great time.

  9. #1489
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Super cool report. I can recommend defense grid to help get around counters + surgical. Josef also has some experience with hope of ghirapur.

    Grapeshot is good when you need to side in some extra win conditions, plus it's great vs teeg + Thalia, delver and all the little annoyances.

    How were the bolts? I always love them when playing actual games and always end up cutting them when I'm just goldfishing.

    I think with your list you can cut 1 pif for one more Reforge. It helps push through the counter wars. My philosophy is they only have so many hard counters. Soft counters we can cast through more often than not.

    I'd probably run a confluence over the banefire. It gives you another out to hate rocks like 3ball and chalice/canonist/null rod.

    You can also try pyromancer ascension as a way around counters. I was testing it a lot before bonus round and was pretty happy with it. (was better with probe, but overall still fine.)
    -rob

  10. #1490

    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    Grapeshot is good when you need to side in some extra win conditions, plus it's great vs teeg + Thalia, delver and all the little annoyances.
    Yeah, this is true. Turning Burning Wish into creature removal seems good. I think you're right.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    How were the bolts? I always love them when playing actual games and always end up cutting them when I'm just goldfishing.
    Bolts are great. In this tournament I bolted Stoneforge Mystic, Goblin Rabblemaster, and my opponent for the win. Three feels right and I wouldn't want to cut them. It's my main deck win-con.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    I think with your list you can cut 1 pif for one more Reforge. It helps push through the counter wars. My philosophy is they only have so many hard counters. Soft counters we can cast through more often than not.
    I think you're right about cutting a Past in Flames but I'm not so sure on adding another Reforge the Soul. You definitely can have too many PiF but I'm really afraid to cast Reforge against the blue decks and they're probably my biggest concern. I might try it though. Most of the time it's just card draw and I'm likely to have more cards than they have Force of Will after a Reforge. Yeah, I'm talking myself into it. Miracles are nice too.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    I'd probably run a confluence over the banefire. It gives you another out to hate rocks like 3ball and chalice/canonist/null rod.
    In addition to, possibly? Banefire is fast becoming my favourite win condition. All you need is Bonus Round, any ritual and Banefire and you've got an uncounterable unpreventable win even without any prior storm count. Have you tried it? It's nowhere near the chopping block for me at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    You can also try pyromancer ascension as a way around counters. I was testing it a lot before bonus round and was pretty happy with it. (was better with probe, but overall still fine.)
    I remember testing with it and having some mixture of Bonus Round and Pyromancer Ascension and Bonus Round just proved itself better every time. This was a lot of goldfishing, mind. Ascension being one mana cheaper might matter in some match-ups but having it there main deck feels like it'd just make the deck less consistent and if I'm going to side anything else against blue it's probably Pyroblast.

    Have you tried Pyroblast at all?

  11. #1491
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Didn't test pyroblast extensively. Feel free to jam more games, but when you give an opponent a new hand you should aim to beat fow + flusterstorm. Pyroblast can't really do that so for me it's not worth it. I think you should try though. I tried banefire and it seems win more. One ritual isn't lethal.
    -rob

  12. #1492
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Have you tried Pyroblast at all?
    Yes, and it can give you a small edge but it will never be a blowout card. My experience has been the critical mass of engine cards is what makes the deck good (Past in Flames, Reforge the Soul, Bonus Round, Hazoret's Undying Fury.) I fought through counterspells by having a ton of must-counter cards. When I had it in my sideboard it was more to kill Leovold (stops Reforge) and Jace (locks me out with first ability.)
    Brainstorm Realist

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  13. #1493

    Re: Ruby Storm

    I'm really bad with multiquotes, so i just dont quote :)

    Regarding banefire, i never ran it, but i ran Kaervek's torch instead for quite a long time. I have a hard time thinking out a scenario where the uncounterability is important when using it as a kill condition. If you resolved a bonus round some rituals and some burning wish without interaction from the opponent they probably don't have any interaction :) I preferred kaervek because i could use it as canonist removal as well and then still being harder to counter. Also Mindbreak Trap.
    I cut it after i realized that even tho it was the most used wincon for me, i rarely needed it, if i had enough mana/active bonus rounds to kill with an x spell i could almost always win by getting either PiF or Hazoret (or both) instead. The times a copied hazoret has fizzled for me is less than 2.

    Regarding reforge, i have a hard time understanding why people dislike it vs control. I can have issues with it when i spend my last mana casting it and i play vs combo. But vs control it's like restarting the game undoing their cantripping and with mana already in play. Maybe it's different because i run blue and cast it for it's miracle most of the time. I have a favorable match history against grixis control, and i attribute much of that to reforge. Favorite play is cantrip t1 hiding reforge 2 cards down, try go off turn 2 even if i know i cant to draw a force, let them hymn me and untap and reforge.

    Not considered pyroblast, but mostly due to having access to flusterstorm.

  14. #1494

    Re: Ruby Storm

    Okay, so I'll trust Reforge the Soul a bit more and throw another one in over a Past in Flames. I take your point about Banefire as well so I'll rip it out for Fiery Confluence and do some goldfishing.

    I'm still not sure about Silent Gravestone. I could see running more wish targets, maybe just another Tormenting Voice and a Pyroclasm. Overmaster could be worth a look as well but surely if they're going to counter a thing they counter the Burning Wish that tries to get it.

    Has anyone had a game where they brought Silent Gravestone in from the board? Why did you bring it in and how did it perform?

  15. #1495
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by mort47 View Post
    Okay, so I'll trust Reforge the Soul a bit more and throw another one in over a Past in Flames. I take your point about Banefire as well so I'll rip it out for Fiery Confluence and do some goldfishing.

    I'm still not sure about Silent Gravestone. I could see running more wish targets, maybe just another Tormenting Voice and a Pyroclasm. Overmaster could be worth a look as well but surely if they're going to counter a thing they counter the Burning Wish that tries to get it.

    Has anyone had a game where they brought Silent Gravestone in from the board? Why did you bring it in and how did it perform?
    it's good vs decks with surgical and doubles up vs snapcaster mage. in addition it's decent vs reanimator, but nothing incredible. it's mostly to help against surgical. if you are running lightning bolts main it's not as needed. just keep in mind when you use bonus round surgical can hit a bunch of targets.
    -rob

  16. #1496

    Re: Ruby Storm

    Warning! Long post incoming!

    I tried the "Magic Online Replay Tool" to analyze my matches with the deck since the last major change i did (4 reforge the soul). The data is not perfect as some of the games have been with me trying out some strange things like 4x overmaster or 4x Noxious revival and also i use to scoop even when winning if im x-3 in a league(don't know why not more people do that, only 2 persons done that to me ever and that was before this data). Also i think the tool has problems identifying opponents decks sometimes. For example i'm pretty sure that 4c_control is mostly grixis control. But still fun.

    Here are the results for every matchup with 5 or more games. (games played - deck - win%)
    18 - Miracles 55%
    16 - 4c_Control 62%
    14 - Storm 57%
    14 - Br_Reanimator 35%
    10 - Eldrazi_Aggro 80%
    9 - Grixis_Delver 55%
    7 - Death_and_Taxes 71%
    7 - Loam 42%
    7 - Dredge 100%
    7 - Dragon_Stompy 85%
    7 - Burn 42%
    6 - Stoneblade 83%
    5 - Dark_Depths 60%
    5 - Maverick 80%
    5 - Lands 80%

    My total match win is 57.28% with 64.56% win preboard.

    Notable lacking decks are show and tell, but that is because the tool have logged matches vs Sneak n show, omnishow, and something it calls show and tell. If i group them together i get ~44%.

    So the sub 50 matchups are
    BR_reanimator, Loam, Burn and show n tell. I'm pretty sure something must be wrong with loam being there, probably matches i scooped. I also think that delver matchups overall would be slightly under 50% currently, just from feeling. I also feel that miracles is probably one of the hardest decks to play correctly, and a lot of my opponents have not been up to the task. My current match streak vs miracles is 0-6.

    I don't know if it's related or just an coincidence but since i got a 5-0 published 2 weeks ago my win rate is down to 48%. It also could be that i'm experimenting with RoF-less builds, or just variance.

    One very interesting thing with the tool is that it shows correlation between casting a spell and winning. Some of the data is obvious like casting tendrils and winning is 1. But some things are a bit surprising. Some examples
    • There is a high correlation to win vs grixis/4c control and casting Reforge, but a slightly negative correlation vs Miracles. It's really high correlation vs miracles preboard, but postboard it's horrendous. Overall a high correlation.
    • There is overall a negative correlation for both hope of ghirapur and defense grid. Hope is somewhat better. Flusterstorm is slightly positive. Surgical is positive.
    • Overmaster has a higher correlation to winning than both ponder and brainstorm!? I've never had overmaster in the sideboard so this is vs the field. I don't think i ever had use of the uncounterability effect of overmaster, so this tells me that i must be really bad with cantrips and that it's better to just draw a card for me :) But no, it probably is just variance and i have had just 20 games where i cast overmaster vs 354 for ponder.
    • Both act on impulse and LED have negative effects on winning, so i feel confident in not playing with them.

    Anyway, i'm still playing, and have some things i want to try out, like pyretic ritual and fire/ice. I also would like to try playing without ruby medallion again and also to try 0-reforge builds. Most of my experiments fail tho :)

  17. #1497
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    would be cool to do one with Hazoret's Undying Fury to see statistically how often games are won when this card is cast/resolved.

    thanks for the update!
    -rob

  18. #1498

    Re: Ruby Storm

    Yeah, currently i'm winning 93 % of the games where i cast Hazoret, but that is a bit misleading as it's a wish target and i almost never cast it without bonus round in effect. I know i fizzled the last 2 times i cast it without bonus round (and i always forget the lands do not untap thingy so last time i cast it i cast it just as bait to resolve my reforge next turn, but it resolved and gave me nothing and i were unable to cast reforge the next turn).

  19. #1499
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    Re: Ruby Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by JosefK View Post
    Yeah, currently i'm winning 93 % of the games where i cast Hazoret, but that is a bit misleading as it's a wish target and i almost never cast it without bonus round in effect. I know i fizzled the last 2 times i cast it without bonus round (and i always forget the lands do not untap thingy so last time i cast it i cast it just as bait to resolve my reforge next turn, but it resolved and gave me nothing and i were unable to cast reforge the next turn).
    good to know though that with bonus round + wish you have almost a 100% win rate. that's pretty amazing as it requires almost no cards to execute.

    with ruby:

    cast bonus round + wish (RRR), then you just need RR or if you already have cast a RoF you only need R.

    pretty amazing.

    i think what can be important from your data is to help better understand what matchups are actually weak and focus on those. with non-blue matchups above 60-70% it might be worth sacrificing some of what makes those matchups so good to help compensate for some other cards that will improve the blue ones. (Reanimator will always be a balls to the wall sb approach.)

    -Rob
    -rob

  20. #1500

    Re: Ruby Storm

    That data is pretty cool Josef, thanks for sharing it!
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