Quote Originally Posted by Jblinder View Post
clone103 here.

I've been discussing this deck some with ewlandon, and I've tried his version out (just one league; went 3-2). After giving it the test run, I still like my version with the Tin Fins style kill better, simply because it is more explosive. However, I will concede that in a fair format, this deck will perform a lot better, as it can grind/cast Grave Titan, etc. In my small sample, I found Lake of the Dead rather clunky, though I did use it some. I also found the Unburial Rites a bit slow without the LEDs. Sure, it is great as an Entomb target, but there is much more synergy with Lion's Eye. For instance, in my version of the deck, a hand like LED, Dark Ritual, Swamp, Griselbrand, Entomb makes turn 1 Griselbrand. Replace Griselbrand with second Entomb and it still makes T1. Unburial is really only good here when you have double Entomb and no Reanimation (or it gets countered), or like Collective Brutality/Griselbrand with no Reanimation. Even then you have to be able to generate 4 mana with a white. I'm not saying it's not worth the slot in ewlandon's version, just that it doesn't shine here like it does in the version with LEDs.

There are a few things that I liked enough about ewlandon's list to switch some stuff around in my Dark Fins list. Collective Brutality is just a very good card. Others had suggested it, and I really didn't give it enough credit, even though I had been playing up to 4 in other versions of Tin Fins without Depths. I just wanted my deck to be as fast as possible, but Brutality is still probably worth an include. I have been playing 2 in place of two Lion's Eye Diamonds in a shell similar to the above. I also replaced two Shallow Graves with two Reanimate. This is more experimental, but Reanimate plays better with Collective Brutality (ritaual/Brutality/reanimate being a T1 line) and SG plays better with LED. Splits on both may seem weird, but actually it gives the deck some versatility; drawing one LED and one Collective Brutality is a lot better than drawing two of either. Same goes for Reanimate/SG.

Another thing I am now doing is boarding out the Tin Fins package (Children/Labman) in the matchups where sticking a Griselbrand is good enough (basically any fair deck not running StP/Karakas).

A note to Hovercraft or anyone who wants to try the Fins style deck: I def do not recommend Tendrils of Agony. It's just a win-more card, really. One of ewlandon's big complaints about my deck is that he hates drawing Labman and/or Children (although Children is pretty hot to just draw and cast against ANT). They are essentially mulligans, and that's true. Adding Tendrils just gives you one more mulligan, while not adding a ton. If you are fully going off, Labman will always get the job done. If you have Tendrils in your hand, you can never use it if you sac an LED--the labman just gets reanimated before you draw off the deep end. He is very reliable and the only kill condition you need (other than attacking a bunch of times with Griselbrand or once with a Marit Lage). Tendrils will win some games on the spot where maybe you couldn't quite go full loop (maybe you draw 14, can't make a children, but have a couple Rituals and a Tendrils. However, most of the time you win that game anyway, even though you "fizzled." After all, you just drew 14 cards!

Shizo, Death's Storehouse is a card I didn't know existed. It is going straight in the deck. Will be very good against Turbo Depths, where you often have dueling Lages and eventually the Sejeri Steppe you.

Here's what I'm on (4-1, 4-1, 1-0 so far).

4 Griselbrand
4 Vampire Hexmage
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Children of Korlis
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
2 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate
1 Unburial Rites (the first is one of the best cards in the deck, as frequent Entomb target, the second is ok but unneeded. It tends to not be a great natural draw)
2 Collective Brutality
4 Unmask (a card I also missed when playing ewlandon's version)
1 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
2 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse (not currently in my build, but will be next league)
2 Swamp
1 Scrubland
4 Polluted Delta

Edit: forgot SB. It's a work in progress.

4 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical
2 Fatal Push
1 Collective Brutality
1 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
1 Massacre
2 Seal of Cleansing

I board out the remaining two LEDs (usually unburial also gets cut when LEDs go) in all the fair deck matchups, where going allin is less attractive, especially post board, and explosiveness isn't necessary. I board out Children and Labman if they aren't Swords to Plowshares decks. I still like to be able to power through StP and/or Karakas by winning on the spot with the Fins kill in those matchups. Shaving a Griselbrand or two is usually also a nice way to free slots post board.

Edit 2: Just realized Shizo doesn't work against opposing Marit Lage. That makes it more "meh." Still maybe worth it, but much less exciting.

I like Shizo for DnT when they have Mom + Flicker/Serra Avenger or any other deck with flyers that can chump block.

I have won by Tendrils more than Lab Maniac so far, I actually love Tendrils with Shallow Grave and Griselbrand (I'm still on 4 Shallow Grave). Also gives you a potential win con even if Grisel and Depths are both Surgically extracted from your deck (Happened to me, then I stocked up a couple rituals and LEDs while attacking with Hexmage/Children and was able to win with Tendrils.) I agree than having the 3 dead draws is kinda shitty but as you said Lab Maniac can often be boarded out anyway. If I were to cut one I would cut Lab Maniac first at this point, but I still need to test against a bigger variety of decks.

I still think in the Tin Fins version you still want at least 1 Grave Titan in the SB/75 to further protect from Surgical Extraction and Karakas. G2 I pretty much always swap 1 Grisel for a Grave Titan.

I think both versions are going to be great combo options now as they can attack from multiple angles, but eventually people will realize what is going on if more and more people start playing it. Hopefully we don't see an uptick in Diabolic Edict or similar card that can stop both Marit Laige and Griselbrand. I'm going to have to pick up some Lake of the Dead and more than 1 Grave Titan so I can try ewlandon/Griselpuff version as well.