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Thread: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

  1. #21

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Jblinder View Post
    clone103 here.

    I've been discussing this deck some with ewlandon, and I've tried his version out (just one league; went 3-2). After giving it the test run, I still like my version with the Tin Fins style kill better, simply because it is more explosive. However, I will concede that in a fair format, this deck will perform a lot better, as it can grind/cast Grave Titan, etc. In my small sample, I found Lake of the Dead rather clunky, though I did use it some. I also found the Unburial Rites a bit slow without the LEDs. Sure, it is great as an Entomb target, but there is much more synergy with Lion's Eye. For instance, in my version of the deck, a hand like LED, Dark Ritual, Swamp, Griselbrand, Entomb makes turn 1 Griselbrand. Replace Griselbrand with second Entomb and it still makes T1. Unburial is really only good here when you have double Entomb and no Reanimation (or it gets countered), or like Collective Brutality/Griselbrand with no Reanimation. Even then you have to be able to generate 4 mana with a white. I'm not saying it's not worth the slot in ewlandon's version, just that it doesn't shine here like it does in the version with LEDs.

    There are a few things that I liked enough about ewlandon's list to switch some stuff around in my Dark Fins list. Collective Brutality is just a very good card. Others had suggested it, and I really didn't give it enough credit, even though I had been playing up to 4 in other versions of Tin Fins without Depths. I just wanted my deck to be as fast as possible, but Brutality is still probably worth an include. I have been playing 2 in place of two Lion's Eye Diamonds in a shell similar to the above. I also replaced two Shallow Graves with two Reanimate. This is more experimental, but Reanimate plays better with Collective Brutality (ritaual/Brutality/reanimate being a T1 line) and SG plays better with LED. Splits on both may seem weird, but actually it gives the deck some versatility; drawing one LED and one Collective Brutality is a lot better than drawing two of either. Same goes for Reanimate/SG.

    Another thing I am now doing is boarding out the Tin Fins package (Children/Labman) in the matchups where sticking a Griselbrand is good enough (basically any fair deck not running StP/Karakas).

    A note to Hovercraft or anyone who wants to try the Fins style deck: I def do not recommend Tendrils of Agony. It's just a win-more card, really. One of ewlandon's big complaints about my deck is that he hates drawing Labman and/or Children (although Children is pretty hot to just draw and cast against ANT). They are essentially mulligans, and that's true. Adding Tendrils just gives you one more mulligan, while not adding a ton. If you are fully going off, Labman will always get the job done. If you have Tendrils in your hand, you can never use it if you sac an LED--the labman just gets reanimated before you draw off the deep end. He is very reliable and the only kill condition you need (other than attacking a bunch of times with Griselbrand or once with a Marit Lage). Tendrils will win some games on the spot where maybe you couldn't quite go full loop (maybe you draw 14, can't make a children, but have a couple Rituals and a Tendrils. However, most of the time you win that game anyway, even though you "fizzled." After all, you just drew 14 cards!

    Shizo, Death's Storehouse is a card I didn't know existed. It is going straight in the deck. Will be very good against Turbo Depths, where you often have dueling Lages and eventually the Sejeri Steppe you.

    Here's what I'm on (4-1, 4-1, 1-0 so far).

    4 Griselbrand
    4 Vampire Hexmage
    1 Laboratory Maniac
    1 Children of Korlis
    4 Entomb
    4 Exhume
    2 Shallow Grave
    2 Reanimate
    1 Unburial Rites (the first is one of the best cards in the deck, as frequent Entomb target, the second is ok but unneeded. It tends to not be a great natural draw)
    2 Collective Brutality
    4 Unmask (a card I also missed when playing ewlandon's version)
    1 Thoughtseize
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Lotus Petal
    2 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Dark Depths
    4 Thespian's Stage
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse (not currently in my build, but will be next league)
    2 Swamp
    1 Scrubland
    4 Polluted Delta

    Edit: forgot SB. It's a work in progress.

    4 Pithing Needle
    2 Surgical
    2 Fatal Push
    1 Collective Brutality
    1 Thoughtseize
    2 Fatal Push
    1 Massacre
    2 Seal of Cleansing

    I board out the remaining two LEDs (usually unburial also gets cut when LEDs go) in all the fair deck matchups, where going allin is less attractive, especially post board, and explosiveness isn't necessary. I board out Children and Labman if they aren't Swords to Plowshares decks. I still like to be able to power through StP and/or Karakas by winning on the spot with the Fins kill in those matchups. Shaving a Griselbrand or two is usually also a nice way to free slots post board.

    Edit 2: Just realized Shizo doesn't work against opposing Marit Lage. That makes it more "meh." Still maybe worth it, but much less exciting.

    I like Shizo for DnT when they have Mom + Flicker/Serra Avenger or any other deck with flyers that can chump block.

    I have won by Tendrils more than Lab Maniac so far, I actually love Tendrils with Shallow Grave and Griselbrand (I'm still on 4 Shallow Grave). Also gives you a potential win con even if Grisel and Depths are both Surgically extracted from your deck (Happened to me, then I stocked up a couple rituals and LEDs while attacking with Hexmage/Children and was able to win with Tendrils.) I agree than having the 3 dead draws is kinda shitty but as you said Lab Maniac can often be boarded out anyway. If I were to cut one I would cut Lab Maniac first at this point, but I still need to test against a bigger variety of decks.

    I still think in the Tin Fins version you still want at least 1 Grave Titan in the SB/75 to further protect from Surgical Extraction and Karakas. G2 I pretty much always swap 1 Grisel for a Grave Titan.

    I think both versions are going to be great combo options now as they can attack from multiple angles, but eventually people will realize what is going on if more and more people start playing it. Hopefully we don't see an uptick in Diabolic Edict or similar card that can stop both Marit Laige and Griselbrand. I'm going to have to pick up some Lake of the Dead and more than 1 Grave Titan so I can try ewlandon/Griselpuff version as well.

  2. #22

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by hovercraft View Post
    I like Shizo for DnT when they have Mom + Flicker/Serra Avenger or any other deck with flyers that can chump block.

    I have won by Tendrils more than Lab Maniac so far, I actually love Tendrils with Shallow Grave and Griselbrand (I'm still on 4 Shallow Grave). Also gives you a potential win con even if Grisel and Depths are both Surgically extracted from your deck (Happened to me, then I stocked up a couple rituals and LEDs while attacking with Hexmage/Children and was able to win with Tendrils.) I agree than having the 3 dead draws is kinda shitty but as you said Lab Maniac can often be boarded out anyway. If I were to cut one I would cut Lab Maniac first at this point, but I still need to test against a bigger variety of decks.

    I still think in the Tin Fins version you still want at least 1 Grave Titan in the SB/75 to further protect from Surgical Extraction and Karakas. G2 I pretty much always swap 1 Grisel for a Grave Titan.

    I think both versions are going to be great combo options now as they can attack from multiple angles, but eventually people will realize what is going on if more and more people start playing it. Hopefully we don't see an uptick in Diabolic Edict or similar card that can stop both Marit Laige and Griselbrand. I'm going to have to pick up some Lake of the Dead and more than 1 Grave Titan so I can try ewlandon/Griselpuff version as well.

    You say you win with tendrils more, and I don't doubt that's true. This is because tendrils will usually happen before labman...When you fully combo you'll draw the tendrils and win on the spot. However you could also win with Labman in that very spot. It just takes a few more clicks. I wouldn't count those as tendrils kills. Those are tendrils win-more.

    You've identified some spots where tendrils is useful, but they really are typically corner cases. The problem with cutting labman before tendrils would be not being able to sac a led when you draw tendrils. It's gone forever if you do. Therefore it isn't as reliable. In the matchups where I am boarding out children and labman, I'd always be boarding out tendrils as well, if somehow i were playing one.

    Death and taxes is a spot where Shizo could be good. I think it's worth inclusion, just not as sexy as I thought at first when I thought it could break the marit lage stalemate.

    Agree that grave Titan should be in the 75, if not the main.

  3. #23

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Last point on Tendrils in the Fins version (sorry for somewhat hijacking the thread on Fins/Depths and not the ewlandon version--they are similar enough I think we can share this thread; ew adapted his list from the fins version).

    Yes, there are times when Tendrils will win a game that otherwise wouldn't have been. surgical on griselbrand and depths, and then drawing tendrils and being able to storm being one. But obviously that is rare. There are others, such as not being able to entomb/reanimate a children but drawing tendrils instead and winning (when combining off). This is less rare, but unless they combo kill you next turn, or make a karakas, you're often winning anyway. But it's clearly not useless. Tendrils will win some games.

    However, replace that tendrils with, say, collective brutality. I can guarantee that you will win MORE games by drawing that card instead of a tendrils. DRS exists. It can be a discard outlet. It can peel away a force of will. I think it boils down to the simple fact that you want to make your Fins package, if you even include it (ewlandon ditched it altogether after not having a ton of success with my version), absolutely as lean as possible to make room for cards that actually do something.

    Ok, so I hope I've made my case for only using two slots on children and (something). But I haven't made a case for labman over the other two options, which are emrakul the aeons torn and tendrils of agony. Emrakul would be my choice if I weeent running LED, but he is a nonbo there as he will take away exhume/SG plus Led discard lines when he is in hand. Otherwise he is best because there are times you actually want to entomb/SG him. He also wins even through ensnaring bridge (as do the other two) as long as you play a collective brutality. Once You have children/griselbrand going, you can loop through your deck infinite times, and use all your rituals and leds and petals to make infinite mana. Emrakul shuffles everything back continually and You can either cast collective brutality 10 times or just hard cast emrakul. It sounds complex and tedious but it's easy to execute with a little practice. Still, I don't like the interaction with LED when you draw him.

    Tendrils suffers the same drawbacks that emrakul does, but is even worse. It's also a nonbo wirh LED, since it's gone forever if you discard it. Now imagine you fully combo off. Draw down to 3 cards left in library. Tendrils is bottom 3. You have to pass turn and maybe die playing against ANT or whatever. With emrakul, you'd just entomb him, shuffle everything back and keep going. With labman you just entomb him, animate and draw off the deep end. If you discard him early to led, no biggie. You just animate him and win anyway.

    My preference is lab man>emrakul>tendrils, and certainly to use only one. Now that I'm down to only 2 LED, emrakul is a strong consideration. I'd be back on 4 shallow graves 0 reanimate if I made that switch

  4. #24

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by filln View Post
    Great to see others brewing this as well. I've been testing a Reanimator Depths list for the past half a year or so, but using Living Wish and Primeval Titan in the main. I know Living Wish has traditionally been too slow in most lists but I like the utility and it's just a fun card.

    How has the Unburial Rites worked out for you? I tried it a few times but it just seemed so slow.

    PS: For added discussion, here's a Renaimator Depths list that Top 8'ed a tournament in Japan back in early May.
    I have a living wish version built as well. It's actually not bad; the living wish toolbox is really quite strong. You can get hexmage, depths, stage, or griselbrand (when you have brutality or led to pitch it). But you can also fetch loyal retainers as a reanimation "spell". Karakas as a silver bullet. Even ethersworn cannonist. It also allows you to run a tin fins package with children of korlis and labman or emrakul in the board instead of taking slots in the main. That plan is a little less consistent than when those cards are in the main though.

    In the end, I've found that wish is maybe just a little too slow, and it doesn't sideboard as well because you have to devote most sb slots to wish targets. But the deck is certainly promising.

  5. #25

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Jblinder View Post
    Last point on Tendrils in the Fins version (sorry for somewhat hijacking the thread on Fins/Depths and not the ewlandon version--they are similar enough I think we can share this thread; ew adapted his list from the fins version).

    Yes, there are times when Tendrils will win a game that otherwise wouldn't have been. surgical on griselbrand and depths, and then drawing tendrils and being able to storm being one. But obviously that is rare. There are others, such as not being able to entomb/reanimate a children but drawing tendrils instead and winning (when combining off). This is less rare, but unless they combo kill you next turn, or make a karakas, you're often winning anyway. But it's clearly not useless. Tendrils will win some games.

    However, replace that tendrils with, say, collective brutality. I can guarantee that you will win MORE games by drawing that card instead of a tendrils. DRS exists. It can be a discard outlet. It can peel away a force of will. I think it boils down to the simple fact that you want to make your Fins package, if you even include it (ewlandon ditched it altogether after not having a ton of success with my version), absolutely as lean as possible to make room for cards that actually do something.

    Ok, so I hope I've made my case for only using two slots on children and (something). But I haven't made a case for labman over the other two options, which are emrakul the aeons torn and tendrils of agony. Emrakul would be my choice if I weeent running LED, but he is a nonbo there as he will take away exhume/SG plus Led discard lines when he is in hand. Otherwise he is best because there are times you actually want to entomb/SG him. He also wins even through ensnaring bridge (as do the other two) as long as you play a collective brutality. Once You have children/griselbrand going, you can loop through your deck infinite times, and use all your rituals and leds and petals to make infinite mana. Emrakul shuffles everything back continually and You can either cast collective brutality 10 times or just hard cast emrakul. It sounds complex and tedious but it's easy to execute with a little practice. Still, I don't like the interaction with LED when you draw him.

    Tendrils suffers the same drawbacks that emrakul does, but is even worse. It's also a nonbo wirh LED, since it's gone forever if you discard it. Now imagine you fully combo off. Draw down to 3 cards left in library. Tendrils is bottom 3. You have to pass turn and maybe die playing against ANT or whatever. With emrakul, you'd just entomb him, shuffle everything back and keep going. With labman you just entomb him, animate and draw off the deep end. If you discard him early to led, no biggie. You just animate him and win anyway.

    My preference is lab man>emrakul>tendrils, and certainly to use only one. Now that I'm down to only 2 LED, emrakul is a strong consideration. I'd be back on 4 shallow graves 0 reanimate if I made that switch


    Hey just wanted to chime in here,
    I played your tin fins version quite a bit so I think I can comment on this debate. I tried tendrils, lab maniac and both. If you win with tin fins lab maniac is better hands down. Some games I wish I had tendrils as an out when I got them down to 11 or so with some weird beat downs. That being said in the end I decided lab maniac was better.

    I had a couple issues with the tin fins version that I thought would keep it from tier 1-2 that I think this version overcomes. First, shallow grave is great but it really sucks when you top deck it the turn after you were forced to chump block with a hexmage. Second, tin fins leans toward being all in. I really hated discarding my whole hand and getting fow'd or surgicalled, you just lose. And, as you mentioned I really hated drawing one or both parts of the tin fins cards. I've always preferred fair decks to combo (mixing it up with combo from time to time) because of the ability to win longer games through multiple answers. Like you dont play delver, get it killed and just auto lose like you do with all in combo decks. Discard effects like we have in your tin-fins deck, BR reani, storm etc. are what make those decks good and something like belcher not, but I think there are too many games that the fins deck just loses to a silver bullet. This lake of the dead version gives you 3 different angles to win with one of which involves the very fair plan of hard casting grave titans. That's why I like it.

  6. #26

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Ewlandon View Post
    Hey just wanted to chime in here,
    I played your tin fins version quite a bit so I think I can comment on this debate. I tried tendrils, lab maniac and both. If you win with tin fins lab maniac is better hands down. Some games I wish I had tendrils as an out when I got them down to 11 or so with some weird beat downs. That being said in the end I decided lab maniac was better.

    I had a couple issues with the tin fins version that I thought would keep it from tier 1-2 that I think this version overcomes. First, shallow grave is great but it really sucks when you top deck it the turn after you were forced to chump block with a hexmage. Second, tin fins leans toward being all in. I really hated discarding my whole hand and getting fow'd or surgicalled, you just lose. And, as you mentioned I really hated drawing one or both parts of the tin fins cards. I've always preferred fair decks to combo (mixing it up with combo from time to time) because of the ability to win longer games through multiple answers. Like you dont play delver, get it killed and just auto lose like you do with all in combo decks. Discard effects like we have in your tin-fins deck, BR reani, storm etc. are what make those decks good and something like belcher not, but I think there are too many games that the fins deck just loses to a silver bullet. This lake of the dead version gives you 3 different angles to win with one of which involves the very fair plan of hard casting grave titans. That's why I like it.
    I agree with a lot of what you said. I've been liking my current version with some of your ideas, but keeping the children/labman. Collective brutality is great when things aren't going as smoothly. I will also agree that grave Titan is a great plan vs stuff like grixis delver (as is the marit lage plan). I do have a comfortably winning record vs Delver decks, but yours is certainly even better there.

    The counterpoint is that your deck is considerably weaker agains ANT (and other fast combo). the fins deck is just faster than ANT, and actually it's one of the best matchups for my version. Unmasks really help when you whiff on the full combo, as we have discussed, as stripping their hand with Gbrand in play is usually enough, while getting griselbrand into play and passing often isn't. Led speeds up both halves of the combo, as well (stage + depths + led is turn 2 lage).

    I could really see siding into the fins package vs combo/ANT being correct for your deck. It's just 2 sb slots. Without LED you'll still lack some explosion, but winning outright when you make a griselbrand still helps a lot. Also, children themselves buy you tons of time if you just run them out. They need to tendrils with 19 storm or chain of vapor them to win. Adding unmasks won't hurt either. I think it's better than TS. Generally you can figure out which plan you're on, and pitch a redundant card or the other half of the combo. Saving the mana often helps, and saving the life is sometimes relevant. Obviously, it's much better once griselbrand is on the battlefield.

    I'm going to keep playing/tinkering with the fins style and let's compare notes in a month or so. Ill probably try some stuff with grave Titan in the main and certainly in the board. There was a sweet Japanese list of a fins style reanimator list with grave Titans, lake of the dead and 4 grim monolith(!!) in the board. I might even try that.

    I'll spreadsheet my results and get back with some more robust data.

  7. #27

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    A lot of good points on the wincons, I guess I am just reluctant to give up on Tendrils as a win con yet, since I'm coming from Burning Reanimator. I feel like Griselbrand and Tendrils are made to be broken together haha. One of the Japanese reanimator storm lists was playing Magus of the Will, seems like it might be fun inclusion with Tendrils main as a way to play it from the graveyard. Seems like a slow card to me, but if you could reanimate on a combo turn with Shallow Grave, at least it will have haste.

  8. #28

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by hovercraft View Post
    A lot of good points on the wincons, I guess I am just reluctant to give up on Tendrils as a win con yet, since I'm coming from Burning Reanimator. I feel like Griselbrand and Tendrils are made to be broken together haha. One of the Japanese reanimator storm lists was playing Magus of the Will, seems like it might be fun inclusion with Tendrils main as a way to play it from the graveyard. Seems like a slow card to me, but if you could reanimate on a combo turn with Shallow Grave, at least it will have haste.
    Yeah. That's the sweet list with the grim monoliths and full set of grave Titans in the board. That is a spicy brew. There are some pretty big differences that make Tendrils the optimal kill in that deck. The main one is that he is playing 4 infernal tutor, making the natural storm kill more of real thing. Magus of the will acts as his children of korlis. if i recall correctly he isn't playing children, but can entomb magus, SG or corpse dance and then plays leds/rituals again and tutors up the tendrils (or plays it from the grave).

    Tendrils is the right card for that deck for sure. I will try that deck out--I think my deck or ewlandons are both better/more resilient with the depths plan, but still that list looks too fun not to play around with a little. For those who are curious there is a thread I think started here by zooligan on that deck.

    Anyway, in the fins version of depths/reanimator, laboratory maniac isn't just the cutest way to win. He's the right man for the job. We don't have room for any magus of the will shenanigans, as cool as that idea is. Put a collective brutality or another thoughtseize or cabal therapy in that tendrils slot and never look back, imo.

  9. #29

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Jblinder View Post
    Yeah. That's the sweet list with the grim monoliths and full set of grave Titans in the board. That is a spicy brew. There are some pretty big differences that make Tendrils the optimal kill in that deck. The main one is that he is playing 4 infernal tutor, making the natural storm kill more of real thing. Magus of the will acts as his children of korlis. if i recall correctly he isn't playing children, but can entomb magus, SG or corpse dance and then plays leds/rituals again and tutors up the tendrils (or plays it from the grave).

    Tendrils is the right card for that deck for sure. I will try that deck out--I think my deck or ewlandons are both better/more resilient with the depths plan, but still that list looks too fun not to play around with a little. For those who are curious there is a thread I think started here by zooligan on that deck.

    Anyway, in the fins version of depths/reanimator, laboratory maniac isn't just the cutest way to win. He's the right man for the job. We don't have room for any magus of the will shenanigans, as cool as that idea is. Put a collective brutality or another thoughtseize or cabal therapy in that tendrils slot and never look back, imo.
    Yeah I definitely agree extra discard is key, I just need to get more reps in with the Lab Maniac plan. I will probably test Magus for fun anyway, just for a bit of Yawg's will nostalgia. Great to see this archetype generating some quality discussions already, it's super fun to play.

  10. #30
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    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    What about 3x Helm of Obedience and 4x Leyline of the Void in the side? Is that too cute/slow? I feel like the dream you could T0 the Leyline, T2 Lake of Dead out the Helm?

  11. #31

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Emrakul503 View Post
    What about 3x Helm of Obedience and 4x Leyline of the Void in the side? Is that too cute/slow? I feel like the dream you could T0 the Leyline, T2 Lake of Dead out the Helm?
    It is probably too cute/slow, yes. If you did try it, I might suggest Enlightened Tutors since we are already playing Scrubland. I'd probably throw an Animate Dead somewhere in the 75 as well, to make Enlightened Tutor better when it gets sided in.

    In the end, it's likely just too many sideboard slots for a transformation plan, especially when our deck is already designed to attack from many angles.

  12. #32
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    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    One of our local guys was running this kind of deck for month's before Vegas, not sure if he is still playing it. He had some really good results locally, but didn't do so well at the GP.

    His original list was:

    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    2 Griselbrand
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Sire of Insanity
    4 Vampire Hexmage

    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Entomb

    4 Beseech the Queen
    2 Duress
    4 Exhume
    3 Reanimate
    4 Thoughtseize

    4 Lotus Petal

    4 Dark Depths
    4 Thespian's Stage
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    5 Swamp
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse

    I know at some point he cut Shinzo to run a Bayou to get Decay out of the board, and I think he tinkered with the number of some other things too (like going to 3 GBees).

    If I can get a hold of his latest list, I'll post it. Maybe Friday, if I make it to play.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  13. #33

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    I recently built this deck as my first go at the Legacy format and have competed in about 5 MTGO Legacy Leagues so far with it. I have yet to 5-0 but I have managed to go at least 3-2 or 4-1 in all leagues. Very fun deck to play. I will be following this for any updates. Best of luck to all.

    Sent from my SM-G720N0 using Tapatalk

  14. #34

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Took a version of Reanimator Depths that I've been tinkering with over the last few months to a weekly last night, going 3-1. My list is different from the ones gaining popularity recently in that it's Black-Green and leans a little more into the Depths combo with Crop Rotation and Living Wish.

    3 Dark Depths
    3 Thespian's Stage
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 Bayou
    1 Forest
    1 Swamp
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Primeval Titan
    2 Grave Titan
    3 Vampire Hexmage
    4 Reanimate
    2 Exhume
    4 Entomb
    3 Crop Rotation
    3 Living Wish
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Collective Brutality

    Sideboard
    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1 Ashen Rider
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Vampire Hexmage
    1 Dark Depths
    1 Thespian's Stage
    3 Abrupt Decay
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Karakas
    2 Toxic Deluge
    1 Pithing Needle

    I defeated High Tide, UR Delver, and Sneak & Show, but lost to Miracles in my last round after a mull to four and then going all-in on the wrong side of my deck in the second game. The deck felt pretty decent all night, though likely the Primeval Titan is a bit too cute and should really just be Griselbrand. I think my next iteration would cut one of each Titan in favor of Griselbrand.

  15. #35

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by filln View Post
    Took a version of Reanimator Depths that I've been tinkering with over the last few months to a weekly last night, going 3-1. My list is different from the ones gaining popularity recently in that it's Black-Green and leans a little more into the Depths combo with Crop Rotation and Living Wish.

    3 Dark Depths
    3 Thespian's Stage
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 Bayou
    1 Forest
    1 Swamp
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Primeval Titan
    2 Grave Titan
    3 Vampire Hexmage
    4 Reanimate
    2 Exhume
    4 Entomb
    3 Crop Rotation
    3 Living Wish
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Collective Brutality

    Sideboard
    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1 Ashen Rider
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Vampire Hexmage
    1 Dark Depths
    1 Thespian's Stage
    3 Abrupt Decay
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Karakas
    2 Toxic Deluge
    1 Pithing Needle

    I defeated High Tide, UR Delver, and Sneak & Show, but lost to Miracles in my last round after a mull to four and then going all-in on the wrong side of my deck in the second game. The deck felt pretty decent all night, though likely the Primeval Titan is a bit too cute and should really just be Griselbrand. I think my next iteration would cut one of each Titan in favor of Griselbrand.
    When I have time I'll post my Living Wish list. I think LW should push you more into the territory of using Lions Eye Diamond. It opens up lines such as Living Wish/respond crack LED for WWW, discarding Griselbrand, fetch Loyal Retainers/sac reanimate. Or just fetch and cast a silver bullet like Eidolon of the Rhetoric (is that the storm hoser?).

    This could be really good too, but Wishes and LED go together like peanutbutter and jelly so I'd recommend at least giving them a try. I don't personally have ESG or Crop Rotation. Maybe that's really good/better.

    Edit: Just realized your list has 0 Griselbrand. Yes, definitely fix that! If you have been doing well with reanimating Primetime being plan A you'll be doing even better with Griselbrand.

  16. #36

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths


  17. #37

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Still putting up solid results with this:

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/700937#paper

    4-1, 4-1, 4-1, 4-1, 4-1, 5-0, 3-2, 2-3 in my last 8 leagues. One of my losses was due to playing turn 1 Stage, LED, turn 2 dark depths and then misclickung and discarding my hand to remove a Depths counter instead of making a 20/20.

    After playing both, I'm still of the opinion that the Fins kill with Laboratory Maniac is stronger than the Grave Titan plan C, though it may just come down to familiarity with the lines the deck wants to take and playstyle.

    I think the Grave Titan plan is better against the delver decks and the grixis control without delver, but that matchup is already good for the Fins version. I'm 9-3 vs Delver.

    The fins plan is better vs new miracles, which is a tougher matchup for both versions. This is because if the fins version makes griselbrand, it can win that turn, even through karakas and/or swords. I recently won a game where my opponent had Jace active for 3 turns, Gideon of the trials with an emblem, and had just made 4 angels with entreat and faresealed to the top. I entombed to shuffle (GB was already in gy), drew exhume and fully comboed, including making hexmage to kill his Gideon before winning with labman. There are spots that you can get out of that would be unwinnable for more traditional reanimator builds.

    The fins version is also much stronger vs combo, especially ANT/TES. It's a matchup that I'm quite happy to face and I think Grave Titan versions will struggle some.

  18. #38

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Anybody tried infernal tutor in the deck? Seems like it would be good with the many collective brutality.

  19. #39
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    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    The deck looks awesome. What's you SB plan against the more common decks in the metagame?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jblinder View Post
    Still putting up solid results with this:

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/700937#paper

    4-1, 4-1, 4-1, 4-1, 4-1, 5-0, 3-2, 2-3 in my last 8 leagues. One of my losses was due to playing turn 1 Stage, LED, turn 2 dark depths and then misclickung and discarding my hand to remove a Depths counter instead of making a 20/20.

    After playing both, I'm still of the opinion that the Fins kill with Laboratory Maniac is stronger than the Grave Titan plan C, though it may just come down to familiarity with the lines the deck wants to take and playstyle.

    I think the Grave Titan plan is better against the delver decks and the grixis control without delver, but that matchup is already good for the Fins version. I'm 9-3 vs Delver.

    The fins plan is better vs new miracles, which is a tougher matchup for both versions. This is because if the fins version makes griselbrand, it can win that turn, even through karakas and/or swords. I recently won a game where my opponent had Jace active for 3 turns, Gideon of the trials with an emblem, and had just made 4 angels with entreat and faresealed to the top. I entombed to shuffle (GB was already in gy), drew exhume and fully comboed, including making hexmage to kill his Gideon before winning with labman. There are spots that you can get out of that would be unwinnable for more traditional reanimator builds.

    The fins version is also much stronger vs combo, especially ANT/TES. It's a matchup that I'm quite happy to face and I think Grave Titan versions will struggle some.

  20. #40

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by gngpostalsrvc View Post
    The deck looks awesome. What's you SB plan against the more common decks in the metagame?
    For reference, I'm using the same main board with an extra thoughtseize and seal of cleansing replacing iona and keranos in the sb.

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/700937#paper

    My SB and plans are a work in progress, but I'm where I want to be for sure vs Grixis Delver since it's such a common matchup.

    Vs Grixis Delver:

    -2 Griselbrand, -2 LED, -1 Unburial (too slow w/o Led vs a deck that actually provides a clock) -1 children of korlis, -1 labman.

    +3 thoughtseize, +1 grave Titan, +3 needle.

    Note that I no longer have Iona or Keranos in the board (up to 3 Thoughtseize). I do not think anything beyond Grave Titan is necessary, and in general my plan for playing around Surgical (other than using discard obviously) is to win with dark depths. It's built right into the deck! For similar reasons I won't board in seal of cleansing even if I see a grafdiggers cage in a matchup like this. That card is for chalice/blood moon decks only basically. Or leyline, which seems on the decline.

    Plan vs grixis control/Czech pile type decks is similar. Def cutting the fins kill. Maybe leaving unburial is ok, as they are slower. 1 or 0 needles if they aren't on wasteland. Surgical is an interesting card as they have snapcaster, it can act as a discard spell or a peek effect to see if the coast is clear in more desperate times. Plans are all similar for the bug and grixis decks, but I will leave in the Fins kill vs suspected or known Aluren or Food Chain. Basically, they are all similar to grixis delver in principle, with tweaks based on wasteland, snapcaster and/or if they have a combo finish.

    Vs burn: I also cut the Fins kill (labman), but leave in Children. Seal of cleansing comes in for eidolon, vortex, and potentially leyline/pyrostatic pillar. 4 eidolon alone is enough for me to want it. This matchup is hard to lose, you can probably shave the reanimates (dangerous, dead cards after turn 2) and labman for seal, fatal push and grave Titan.

    Vs lands: I currently board -4 dark depths, -4 vampire hexmage, -2 collective. +4 needle, +1 seal of cleansing, +3 Thoughtseize, +2 Surgical. Thoughtseize isn't great by any means, but I think the Depths plan is quite bad against them. It can take something like crop rotation to prevent instant bog or be aimed at self as a griselbrand discard outlet.

    Vs new miracles: I actually cut an urborg, as games go long often (you can win a long game, it's ok) so you'll draw too many lands over the course of the game, and these are legendary. Again, trim leds and griselbrands (common cuts) though here I like leaving unburial. Add in discard and Grave Titan and I like at least one surgical since it's a discard spell in a long game, and they have Snapcaster. I leave the Fins kill in here since it is the best way to power through potential karakas. Even Grave Titan isn't great here and maybe he shouldn't even come in as going for gb is always going to be better, even if they have karakas generally.

    I see ewlandon and bob (in the CFB video) consistently trimming stuff like exhume, which I rarely like. This deck has no brainstorms and ponders; imo you need a critical mass of combo cards for the deck to function properly.ill occasionally shave 1. I've also seen petals being trimmed, which does make some sense as things slow down post board. I never do this as I still want the ability/threat to turn 1.

    Vs Sneak and show: I think it's hard, because I want to keep all the Griselbrands, making show plan much riskier for them. +3 thoughtseize for sure, +at least 2 Needle for sure (naming sneak) and +1 seal for blood moon. Cuts are LEDs, unburial,probably a collective brutality or two (?). Shave some other stuff as you deem fit. It's one of those work in progress matchups for me (not that the matchup is too bad--it's somewhere near 50% probably on the favorable side).

    Death and Taxes: it's a nightmare. It's the only truly awful matchup for the deck, imo. Of course I'm 1-0 vs it recently! My plan is to board out depths combo, and maximize my t1 and t2 kill rate with the Fins plan. This means leaving in all the griselbrand and leds. I also bring in thoughtseize and plan to target myself with them if I have a griselbrand more often than I would normally. Obviously massacre comes in and so does fatal push. I don't know if boarding out depths fully is correct, but it's a poor plan against a deck with 3x karakas, so I think it is. So -4 depths -4 hexmage. The rest of the slots after fatal push, 3 thoughtseize and massacre can be needles or grave Titan. Needle on karakas is cool, but I really want to absolutely maximize proactive cards here.

    ANT: +3 thoughtseize -1 shizo, -1 hexmage, -1 brutality. maybe brutality is awkward cut, but it's a tad slow for the mu and thoughtseize is a clear upgrade. Surgical is tempting but it's hard to find cuts. Could always shave griselbrand (can do that instead of hexmage/brutality as well) but I like maximizing led lines which are the fastest kills the deck can produce. Confident +3 TS and +0/1 surgical is correct. Cuts somewhat unclear. Note that almost all hands that contain a castable children of korlis are keepable here. The card generally buys you insane amounts of time unless they have chain of vapor. Now that ANT players know the score they are bringing in all their bounce vs us (which they didn't vs fins sans the depths combo) which is rather unfortunate. A truly bad hand with t1 children is still a mulligan.

    Elves: I don't board much. This is a good matchup because we are faster and their post board discard and couple surgicals aren't enough. Can shave a griselbrand or two and a shizo if desired and add a fatal push and maybe a thoughtseize or two as anti-surgical measure. Needle for DRS and some stuff like symbiote/ranger/druid is a trap imo. Be proactive! 1 if you must. Massacre is also a trap. Just make them dead. Side note re massacre: Massacre is for D&T and any other deck playing the card Thalia, Guardian of Thraben basically. It can be ok vs the stoneforge decks. Not particularly great if you're just targeting containment priest, as the instant speed will still ruin your day. Fatal push is better tool for that job.

    Reanimator: surgicals and thoughtseizes, pretty obviously. Def go down to 2 griselbrand to limit their discard/reanimate lines. A land is cuttable here. Collective brutality is fine but a little slow, id shave 0-1. This is maybe the matchup where shaving 2 exhume might be right. Even here it's not bad, as you will usually win on the spot even if you both make Griselbrand...however iona can be problematic (though 7/7 lifelink>7/7).

    A common theme in many matchups is boarding out a land. I used to play as few as 18 main deck! Generally, if you're in a matchup where you want the game to be consistently over by turn 3 (generally combo), especially matchups where aggressive mulligans aren't as costly (again combo, as you're fighting through less hate and mainly trying to goldfish) it's fine to board out a land (usually shizo). 2 on the draw is even maybe fine, but is probably risky/aggressive. Vs almost anything blue (note miracles exception above) and especially anything with wasteland obviously keep all the land always.

    Finally, notice that I basically never cut Unmask. Some people don't even like running the card: I personally think that is crazy--the card is bonkers in this deck. You've probably figured out that I'm very long-winded by now; I could probably write a book on unmask in this deck. The cliffs: good against combo because it is the "fastest" and allows you to pull that potential surgical without costing you a turn. Good in the fair matchups when used properly. The cliff notes of the potential book would be: be patient! 90% of my unmasks are saved for the turn I am trying to go off only, especially vs the fair decks. This will give maximum information on their hand and won't let them hide something for later under a brainstorm or radically change the composition of their hand in future turns. It also gives you maximum information on what to pitch. Almost always you'll have something redundant or have a clear idea which half of the combo you are aiming for, with a card like hexmage or shallow grave from "the other half." If you're casting unmask on a turn you aren't trying to go off you are probably doing it wrong!
    Last edited by Jblinder; 07-19-2017 at 09:07 AM.

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