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Thread: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

  1. #101

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Hi All,

    I've been playtesting this deck a little using collective brutality, and was wondering if anyone had tested both it and unmask. I could be wrong, but I get the sense that collective brutality skews a little grindier as it costs more (usually) and is more of a tool kit. How does that affect the decisions about what hands to keep? Does having collective brutality with a discard option make more hands keepable? I know you can unmask yourself, but that's even worse than thoughtseizing yourself.

    Thanks for all for the detailed reporting!

  2. #102

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by darker3030 View Post
    Hi All,

    I've been playtesting this deck a little using collective brutality, and was wondering if anyone had tested both it and unmask. I could be wrong, but I get the sense that collective brutality skews a little grindier as it costs more (usually) and is more of a tool kit. How does that affect the decisions about what hands to keep? Does having collective brutality with a discard option make more hands keepable? I know you can unmask yourself, but that's even worse than thoughtseizing yourself.

    Thanks for all for the detailed reporting!
    Sry, didn't mean using both unmask and collective brutality together in the same decklist, just two similar decklists with just substituting one for the other

  3. #103

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by darker3030 View Post
    Hi All,

    I've been playtesting this deck a little using collective brutality, and was wondering if anyone had tested both it and unmask. I could be wrong, but I get the sense that collective brutality skews a little grindier as it costs more (usually) and is more of a tool kit. How does that affect the decisions about what hands to keep? Does having collective brutality with a discard option make more hands keepable? I know you can unmask yourself, but that's even worse than thoughtseizing yourself.

    Thanks for all for the detailed reporting!
    Collective brutality is a fairly important improvement to the deck. Costing two can be limiting, since it sometimes slows you down, but it does double duty letting you both discard your self and discard something from your opponent, getting rid of a possible counter spell or removal. On top of that, it has the added benefit of the rest of it's toolbox kit, possibly killing a deathrite or any white hate bears, or possibly gaining you the extra two life for an additional Griseldaddy activation.

    The real question you usually want to look at for your hand disruption is unmask vs. thoughtsieze. Unmask is more explosive, but thoughtsieze is better card advantage in grindy matchups. I have personally been running 3 CoBru, 3 unmask and 2 thoughtsieze in the main with an additional CoBru and a thoughtsieze in the side, but the mix is probably a meta choice/personal preference. Do you want to have more explosive hands and risk it all or do you want to keep card advantage for slower games.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  4. #104

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    I see your point that the choice is between thoughtseize and unmask and not between unmask and collective brutality. I think I'm just gonna find as many different match-ups as I can (which I try to do anyway) using thoughtseize before comparing it to unmask. So far I've only been jamming games against eldrazi, elves, delver and infect.

  5. #105
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    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Hi, I find the Miracles matchup unplayable. Any tips or advice to beat them?

    EDIT: my current plan is to board out 4 petals, 4 rituals, 1 Griselbrand, 1 Urborg and 1 swamp and board in 4 Leylines, 1 Helm, 2 Pack Rats, 2 Duress, 2 needles
    Last edited by Ultrab77; 01-05-2018 at 08:58 AM.

  6. #106

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    does anyone know who was playing this at GPSC? Was wondering if anyone knows what their list was.

  7. #107

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultrab77 View Post
    Hi, I find the Miracles matchup unplayable. Any tips or advice to beat them?

    EDIT: my current plan is to board out 4 petals, 4 rituals, 1 Griselbrand, 1 Urborg and 1 swamp and board in 4 Leylines, 1 Helm, 2 Pack Rats, 2 Duress, 2 needles
    Pray, and if that doesn't work find a new God.

    Seriously, Miracles matchup = bye. I've won about 9% of the times.

  8. #108
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    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattskones View Post
    does anyone know who was playing this at GPSC? Was wondering if anyone knows what their list was.
    The guy is Jeremy Bowers with 2 feature matches here (two losses lol)

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/216345278

    No idea about the list but BW looking at the fetches

  9. #109

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultrab77 View Post
    The guy is Jeremy Bowers with 2 feature matches here (two losses lol)

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/216345278

    No idea about the list but BW looking at the fetches
    Think it might be time for this to be moved to established decks.

  10. #110

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Hey all,

    I ran this at our weekly yesterday:
    Code:
    Creatures (10)
    4 Vampire Hexmage
    3 Grave Titan
    2 Griselbrand
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    
    Spells (24)
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Entomb
    4 Reanimate
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Collective Brutality
    4 Exhume
    2 Unmask
    
    Artifacts (4)
    4 Lotus Petal
    
    Lands (22)
    4 Dark Depths
    1 Lake of the Dead
    9 Swamp
    4 Thespian's Stage
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    
    Sideboard (15)
    1 Coffin Purge
    2 Dread of Night
    2 Duress
    4 Pithing Needle
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Faerie Macabre
    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1 Tidespout Tyrant
    Unfortunately only went 1-2, but I had fun with the deck!

    R1 v. Grixis Delver
    G1: I go Urborg -> Dark Rit which he Forces. T2 I Drop DD and play Hexmage. He flips Delver and passes, I make a spaghetti monster. He chumps then concedes next turn.
    G2: Similar plays, but I strip his only threat (Delver) from his hand, then go for Hexmage next turn, which he counters. I reanimate her and he is thoroughly confused at this point. Make the spaghetti monster, which gets killed via Edict when I go to reanimate Hexmage a second time. Drop second Depths and EoT make another token. He digs with 2x Ponder and Brainstorm and finds Edict #2. I reanimate Hexmage for a third time and start the beats. He lands a YP then Probes + Therapies me seeing Griselbrand, Iona and Lake of the Dead. He takes Griselbrand so I can't hard cast down the road (which I'm not sure is correct). I end up hitting him to 7 with the Hexmage then hard cast the second Griselbrand with Lake, Petal, and some lands. GG.

    R2 v. Miracles
    G1: Lose the die roll. He plays fetchland and passes. I have a T2 Lage potential so I go Urborg -> Dark Rit, he Brainstorms and lets it resolve. I play a bait Entomb, which he lets resolve then Force the Hexmage (he knows I play BG Depths so maybe the Urborg was a giveaway and he had more interaction for graveyard shenanigans?). I proceed to draw redundant Depths so I go into manual tick down mode while he casts Jace and starts fate sealing. He hit it on the right turn because he only threw reanimate spells to the bottom of my library and I only drew lands (we had a good laugh at that). I get DD down to 1 counter and am ready to kill him (after he ulted Jace) then he drops Karakas on his very last turn... Damn!
    G2: I entomb Iona and she gets surgicaled. He drops Jace and I never find another Entomb or fatty for the two CoBrus I drew to go with my three reanimate spells. GG. (I drew a lot of lands that match haha.)

    R3 v. Elves
    G1: I T1 Iona and name green because I know he's on Elves and he scoops.
    G2: I keep a hand with 2 Entomb 2 Reanimate 2 Hexmage, Swamp and Urborg (?). He leads on Deathrite, I play Swamp and pass. He proceeds to Therapy me taking Entomb, plays a Symbiote, flashbacks Therapy and strips the Hexmages. I get killed by Deathrites because I drew... More lands... (Also punted and didn't reanimate a Hexmage when the one Deathrite was tapped out, but at least it didn't matter due to my dead draws.)
    G3: I keep a loose hand with T1 reanimate and go for it. I get surgicaled and can't recover. He shows me two therapies he had in his opener as well. I think I should have mulliganed harder for DD combo here since he was probably packing more hate for the Reanimator side of the dead. Ah well!

    I'll absolutely be running this one again, even if only for the confused looks. Definitely would like some games where I didn't flood as much, but thems the breaks from time to time.

  11. #111

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Anyone got information (deck list, etc) on the reanimator depths deck that made day two Worcester last weekend?

  12. #112
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    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Nope, but I’d like to see that! The deck is so inconsistent that it’s often more like an all-in choice for tournaments.

  13. #113
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    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    So a tin fins depths with burning wish made Top 16 of the GP.

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/...sts-2018-04-07

    Bayou + wish allows to play Safekeeper and Reclamation Sage in the side, I like it.

    I still feel more inclined to play the Titan version, but I’ll test BW for sure.

  14. #114

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultrab77 View Post
    So a tin fins depths with burning wish made Top 16 of the GP.

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/...sts-2018-04-07

    Bayou + wish allows to play Safekeeper and Reclamation Sage in the side, I like it.

    I still feel more inclined to play the Titan version, but I’ll test BW for sure.
    Matt Nass played my list from this CFB article. https://www.channelfireball.com/arti...depths-legacy/

    I also played the gp and started 6-0 with no byes, but scrubbed out at 7-5 drop.

    It’s funny that you mentioned safekeeper and reclamation sage, as those are the two wish targets I’ve since cut. At the Gp I replaced those with Necrotic Ooze and sejiri steppe. Necrotic ooze is a slam dunk. You wish for him when griselbrand is needled or you have a silent gravestone in play post board do retainers won’t work. I’ve also gone off turn 3 through a grafdiggers cage by casting wish, sacrificing two leds, casting ooze and finishing the labman chain. He will be a staple going forward.

    Reclamation sage was not good, and was an experiment in that list that I happened to 5-0 a league with (as was cabal therapy and only 3 living wish—4 thoughtseize 1 unmask 4 living wish 0 therapy has been performing best). I talked with Matt at the gp and he agreed sage wasn’t good. The reason is because chalice on 1 isn’t scary for this deck, as there are still many ways to get the combo going without entomb...then if you need to you can hexmage the chalice to zero mid-combo after playing as many leds and petals that you can. Frequently you can even fully combo with a labman finish without ever dealing with the Chalice on 1. Ensnaring bridge isn’t really scary because Laboratory maniac doesn’t care about attacking. Sphere of resistance and early chalice on 0 are problematic, and wishing for Rec sage is way too slow to deal with either. Hitting a blood moon with a zero counter dark depths would be cute, but never happened to me or Matt, and the dragon stompy matchUp is already favorable.

    Safekeeper was a staple in my board for a really long time...she may belong, although was only instrumental in 3 game wins in 190 matches where I had her in my board (I keep track of wish targets).

    Steppe has won me some games against Aluren and Czech where they setup baleful plus Jace to deal with Marit Lage or just infinite harpy blocks from Aluren. It’s pretty marginal though.

    I’m thinking about cutting more wish targets though for 2 nature’s claim. Probably better than decay since the big threats are sphere and chalice on 0 (and leyline), and costing 1 matters a lot, esp against sphere.

  15. #115
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    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Jblinder View Post
    Matt Nass played my list from this CFB article. https://www.channelfireball.com/arti...depths-legacy/

    I also played the gp and started 6-0 with no byes, but scrubbed out at 7-5 drop.

    It’s funny that you mentioned safekeeper and reclamation sage, as those are the two wish targets I’ve since cut. At the Gp I replaced those with Necrotic Ooze and sejiri steppe. Necrotic ooze is a slam dunk. You wish for him when griselbrand is needled or you have a silent gravestone in play post board do retainers won’t work. I’ve also gone off turn 3 through a grafdiggers cage by casting wish, sacrificing two leds, casting ooze and finishing the labman chain. He will be a staple going forward.

    Reclamation sage was not good, and was an experiment in that list that I happened to 5-0 a league with (as was cabal therapy and only 3 living wish—4 thoughtseize 1 unmask 4 living wish 0 therapy has been performing best). I talked with Matt at the gp and he agreed sage wasn’t good. The reason is because chalice on 1 isn’t scary for this deck, as there are still many ways to get the combo going without entomb...then if you need to you can hexmage the chalice to zero mid-combo after playing as many leds and petals that you can. Frequently you can even fully combo with a labman finish without ever dealing with the Chalice on 1. Ensnaring bridge isn’t really scary because Laboratory maniac doesn’t care about attacking. Sphere of resistance and early chalice on 0 are problematic, and wishing for Rec sage is way too slow to deal with either. Hitting a blood moon with a zero counter dark depths would be cute, but never happened to me or Matt, and the dragon stompy matchUp is already favorable.

    Safekeeper was a staple in my board for a really long time...she may belong, although was only instrumental in 3 game wins in 190 matches where I had her in my board (I keep track of wish targets).

    Steppe has won me some games against Aluren and Czech where they setup baleful plus Jace to deal with Marit Lage or just infinite harpy blocks from Aluren. It’s pretty marginal though.

    I’m thinking about cutting more wish targets though for 2 nature’s claim. Probably better than decay since the big threats are sphere and chalice on 0 (and leyline), and costing 1 matters a lot, esp against sphere.
    How were the Silent Gravestones? I’m considering playing a 3/3 Needle / Gravestone for the Delver matchup. SG can also be interesting for Lands or Reanimator.

    Possible SB
    3 Needle
    3 Silent Gravestone
    1 DD
    1 TS
    1 Hexmage
    1 Massacre Wurm
    1 Tidespout Tyrant
    1 Sejiri Steppe
    1 Faerie Macabre
    2 Krosan Grip (or 1 + 1 Iona)

  16. #116

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultrab77 View Post
    How were the Silent Gravestones? I’m considering playing a 3/3 Needle / Gravestone for the Delver matchup. SG can also be interesting for Lands or Reanimator.

    Possible SB
    3 Needle
    3 Silent Gravestone
    1 DD
    1 TS
    1 Hexmage
    1 Massacre Wurm
    1 Tidespout Tyrant
    1 Sejiri Steppe
    1 Faerie Macabre
    2 Krosan Grip (or 1 + 1 Iona)
    Silent gravestone is great. It stops DRS, Surgical and snapcaster, and yes it’s a house against reanimator.

    I’m not sure if you’re doing the same maindeck, but if you are the sb you suggest is missing some key cards. Namely a win condition for when you draw your whole deck in Laboratory Maniac. That is how the deck wins when you get Griselbrand online, and is the point of the children of korlis in the main (and one should also be in the board).

    Griselbrand should be in the board. Consider this hand: land, lotus petal, dark ritual, living wish, lions eye, exhume: you cast ritual, cast wish for griselbrand. Play led, cast exhume sacrificing LED in response and win turn 1. Wishing for griselbrand when you have LED is a common line of play.

    Loyal retainers must be in the board. Cast living wish, respond by cracking LED for WWW discarding Griselbrand, cast loyal retainers. Reanimation from the sb is a key component to this deck. Necrotic ooze is a pseudo loyal retainers for when you have gravestone in play or they have a needle or spyglass naming griselbrand. Ooze also belongs.

    Iona and tidespout are not great here, since neither really work with shallow grave. And if you’re running reanimate and not shallow grave, silent gravestone isn’t going to be good. The living wish tin fins deck is different than reanimator depths, and you can’t really mix and match stuff that might be good in the other version.

    Krosan grip is too slow. At that point you might as well play Rec sage since you can at least wish for it.

  17. #117
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    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Hi all-

    What are the Pithing Needles in the sb for? What are decks that this is coming in for (as these are not accessible via Wish) and what are the targets? I'm only thinking of DRS, which we are bringing in 3x Silent Gravestones for.?

  18. #118
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    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Also I've been testing this deck a bit on XMage and the first time I had to Shallow Grave + crack an LED in response, Shallow Grave hit Children of Korlis instead of Griselbrand because you can't pick the gy order. What are we supposed to do here? I heard it was broken on MODO also. Is there some way to fix this? Is it just random or is it possibly affected by order of cards in your hand at the time? I'll test more.. but that was a won game that I had to concede, annoyingly.

  19. #119

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by ashent View Post
    Hi all-

    What are the Pithing Needles in the sb for? What are decks that this is coming in for (as these are not accessible via Wish) and what are the targets? I'm only thinking of DRS, which we are bringing in 3x Silent Gravestones for.?
    Needle on wasteland is excellent vs the delver decks who are otherwise soft to Marit Lage. Playing just one is reasonable. Backup to name drs when no gravestone in sight. They also come in vs lands and can name lots of stuff depending on game state, but it’s very hard to beat active Karakas if the land a sphere of resistance.

    I’m down to 1 needle but wouldn’t go to 0.

  20. #120

    Re: [Deck] Reanimator Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by ashent View Post
    Also I've been testing this deck a bit on XMage and the first time I had to Shallow Grave + crack an LED in response, Shallow Grave hit Children of Korlis instead of Griselbrand because you can't pick the gy order. What are we supposed to do here? I heard it was broken on MODO also. Is there some way to fix this? Is it just random or is it possibly affected by order of cards in your hand at the time? I'll test more.. but that was a won game that I had to concede, annoyingly.

    Yeah there is no way around the bug on modo. Apparently it’s last card drawn on top. Since you can undo an led activation I usually just test it out first to make sure the correct card is on top. If I’m getting griselbrand I’ll undo and cast shallow, if not I’ll take some suboptimal line and file for reimbursement if I lose. It sucks.

    Fix is prob right around the corner since they’ve only known about the issue for over a year...

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