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Thread: Sleeves both inner and outer

  1. #1

    Sleeves both inner and outer

    Hey guys just wanted to see what everyone is using nowadays for sleeves? In the past I used kmc perfect fits w/ the old style dragonshield.

    But i see there have been some changes in quality and variety

    For outers I was looking at : Dragonshield matte, KMC hyper matt and Ultrapro pro matte

    For inners: dragonshield clear/smoke, KMC perfect fit, or KMC perfect fit hards.

    From what i've read the kmc's have dipped in quality while ultra pro is becoming usable.

    Thanks guys

  2. #2

    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    Quote Originally Posted by 13b View Post
    Hey guys just wanted to see what everyone is using nowadays for sleeves? In the past I used kmc perfect fits w/ the old style dragonshield.

    But i see there have been some changes in quality and variety

    For outers I was looking at : Dragonshield matte, KMC hyper matt and Ultrapro pro matte

    For inners: dragonshield clear/smoke, KMC perfect fit, or KMC perfect fit hards.

    From what i've read the kmc's have dipped in quality while ultra pro is becoming usable.

    Thanks guys
    I can't speak to degradation in quality of outer sleeves. But I have had a nice amount of time with the new-ish UltraPro Eclipse sleeves and the KMC Hards.

    The Eclipse sleeves open with a great texture and shuffle feel. This declines a bit over time. I have also experienced the color getting nicked along the bottom and sides. This wear is minor, but new to me, compared to other sleeves. Likely due to how they're achieving the two-tone sleeve color. These complaints aside, they're great sleeves. I wish they had the color range available from other types and brands. Hopefully that will grow over time.

    KMC Perfect Hard sleeves provide a very durable feel. I imagine something comparable to triple sleeved cards. This feels like a bonus for protecting cards and may help with keeping foils from curling. On the other side, the deck ends up being noticeably thicker than a deck double sleeved in perfect fits. To the point that it may impact your choice in deck box. And the stiffness makes it more difficult to shuffle. This has been most pronounced with sleeves that are already sticky, like the non-matte Dragon Shields. Was not happy with that pairing. I have found the Hards go just fine in KMC Hyper Mats or UltraPro Eclipse.

    Perfect Hards come with another annoyance, they have tended to creep up after shuffling and play. So the top of the card ends up *just* poking out of the top. Have found that I need to keep pushing the cards back down into the outer sleeve. It's somewhat manageable in Hyper Mats or Eclipses. It was way too much of an issue with the KMC Hyper Mat Premium sleeves. Those seem a bit shorter than regular Hyper Mat sleeves and the Perfect Hard was always sliding out. To the point I had to adjust cards after each game. (Boo! Otherwise, really liked the Hyper Mat Premium. I'm a sucker for matte front, turns out).

    All in all. Happy with KMC Hyper Mat, Hyper Mat Premium, Dragon Shield, and Eclipse outer sleeves. Happy with Perfect Fit and Perfect Hard inner sleeves.
    "If magic is your crutch, cast it aside and learn to walk without it." —Teferi

  3. #3

    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    actually I found Perfect Hards to noticably improve shuffling with less outter sleeve wear due to increased thickness of the individual card there is more space in between thus easier to mash without damage by cards sticking together, it's a bit harder to operate and gives almost highlander sizes, feels good in hand once you get the used to it a bit blind drawing a 7 not recommended, the real downside is my old deck box doesnt fit so I have to carry 2 around and I'm quite afraid I'd mix a perfect fit card in there eventually, which is also a new avenue for cheating btw. resleeving perfect fits is terrible XP but when resleeving outters it feels much safer as corners do not bend... roughly 3 months use, 9,5/11 would recommend, using KMC B matte asbtw outters btw., did not really feel a considerable decrease in quality of those yet, but Im not resleeving all my cards unless those are real garbage tbh
    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
    .

  4. #4
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    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloshthedark View Post
    actually I found Perfect Hards to noticably improve shuffling with less outter sleeve wear due to increased thickness of the individual card there is more space in between thus easier to mash without damage by cards sticking together, it's a bit harder to operate and gives almost highlander sizes, feels good in hand once you get the used to it a bit blind drawing a 7 not recommended, the real downside is my old deck box doesnt fit so I have to carry 2 around and I'm quite afraid I'd mix a perfect fit card in there eventually, which is also a new avenue for cheating btw. resleeving perfect fits is terrible XP but when resleeving outters it feels much safer as corners do not bend... roughly 3 months use, 9,5/11 would recommend, using KMC B matte asbtw outters btw., did not really feel a considerable decrease in quality of those yet, but Im not resleeving all my cards unless those are real garbage tbh
    I'm playing the same set up. My rating: 11/13 would recommend as well.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  5. #5

    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    I've been using the Ultra Pro Side Load inner sleeves, and the Pro Matte Eclipse for some time now.

    Sleeving and day 1-2 shuffle is the best ever. Unfortunately after just a few days, the Eclipse sleeves tend to get a bit sticky and dont shuffle very well.

    I'm in the process of testing out the Ultimate Guard Supreme Matte sleeves (in the mail now), and the Pro-Matte (non eclipse) versions.

    It's frustrating because the Eclipse sleeves are the best around until they get a bit dirty; at which point theyre pretty mediocre.

  6. #6

    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    For the past 2 years I have been using the BCW inner sleeves. While about 5/100 are a little too snug, they are about 1/4 the price of KMC perfect fits. Love them.

    Four outer sleeves, I have really been liking the Dragonshield matte sleeves. Started with Black but the Ivor and Green apple feel a bit better (and I love the black) and look nice too.

  7. #7
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    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    Not to derail, but how necessary is double sleeving? I've always single-sleeved my stuff and saw double sleeving as an uneccessary precaution that was only really necessary if your deck was full of Beta/Japanese foil pimp.

  8. #8

    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    Quote Originally Posted by apistat_commander View Post
    Not to derail, but how necessary is double sleeving? I've always single-sleeved my stuff and saw double sleeving as an uneccessary precaution that was only really necessary if your deck was full of Beta/Japanese foil pimp.
    For me it's just a matter of very cheap additional insurance. When youre dabbling with $200 - $500+ cards, it seems trivial to spend the extra $5 to double sleeve.

    Is it critical? Probably not - does it give some added protection if someone dumps a drink on the table or when you're re-sleeving? Heck yeah. And the burden of doing it is so minimal.

    In summary: the cost of doing it is so low that its nice insurance against unexpected damage with basically no downside

  9. #9
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    Sleeves both inner and outer

    I'm still using kmc perfect fits as inner sleeves and hareruya v2.0 outter sleeves. No complaints. My collection is sleeved in the inners so I won't be changing to hards or another brand. The hareruya v2.0 are my favorite sleeves and have held up great.


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  10. #10

    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    KMC Perfect Fit inside KMC Hyper Matte for years now.

  11. #11
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    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    So rather than start a new topic, this seems like a good place to ask: for those of you using KMC Perfect Hards, what type of deck box fits your deck? I'm considering resleeving my Vintage deck in Perfect Hards, but not sure if it'll fit in one of my normal Ultra Pro or Ultimate Guard flip boxes. I was thinking maybe an Ultra Pro Satin Tower?

  12. #12

    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart View Post
    So rather than start a new topic, this seems like a good place to ask: for those of you using KMC Perfect Hards, what type of deck box fits your deck? I'm considering resleeving my Vintage deck in Perfect Hards, but not sure if it'll fit in one of my normal Ultra Pro or Ultimate Guard flip boxes. I was thinking maybe an Ultra Pro Satin Tower?
    Look for a box shaped like a square prism. 75 and some tokens in Perfect Hards are about as deep as they are wide.

    I haven't tried one of the Satin Towers, but they look nice and to be about the right size.
    "If magic is your crutch, cast it aside and learn to walk without it." —Teferi

  13. #13
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    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    Cheers Settler - that was my impression, too. If anyone has a deck box they know works with Perfect Hards, let me know!

  14. #14
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    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart View Post
    Cheers Settler - that was my impression, too. If anyone has a deck box they know works with Perfect Hards, let me know!
    Ultimate Guard Flip Box 100+ works well.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  15. #15

    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    I use the KMC hard perfects and Dragonshield Sky Blue - love them both.

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    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    Am I weird for not doing the double sleeve thing? It just seems like a bit much to me, right up there with the 2 inch thick screw down baseball card holders from the 1980s. Does anyone here shuffle PSA cases?

    For what it is worth.

    • I have the cards I want.
    • I am not looking to sell, so condition isn't a great concern of mine.
    • My cards are not mint, I would rather have a play set of nice-ish cards over 2-3 copies that are 10s on corners, centering, printing, and surface.
    • No amount of sleeves will allow for long term regular play without wear

  17. #17
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    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    Ultimate Guard Flip Box 100+ works well.
    Thanks! I've really enjoyed Ultimate Guard's 80+ deck boxes, so that could be the way to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryant Cook View Post
    I use the KMC hard perfects and Dragonshield Sky Blue - love them both.
    Good to know. I've avoided Dragon Shields in the past, as I've found they're a bit tight on Perfect Fits. However, Hyper Mattes seem to have become much lower quality and prone to exploding mid-shuffle, so maybe it's time to give Dragon Shields another shot.

  18. #18

    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    Another fan of the KMC hard here.

    Unfortunately I noticed that they are not good with UltraPro Eclipse (very sad, these are the most beautiful sleeves I've ever tried). Kmc hard fit perfect with kmc hyper matte, but we all know their quality dropped a lot recently.

    Is dragonshield the solution? I don't know this brand, I'm seeing that they have a lot of different sleeves. Which one is better combined with kmc hard?

    ty a lot

  19. #19

    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    I really like double matte sleeves (both front and back matte), and KMC makes a line of such sleeves called the Premium Mattes (not the same as Hyper Matte). For what it's worth, I haven't personally observed any big quality drop despite what people have been saying about Hyper Mattes turning to crap. Downside is of course, with any double matte sleeve, foils are dulled due to the matte finish on the front.

  20. #20

    Re: Sleeves both inner and outer

    I have been using KMC Perfect Fits inside KMC Hyper Matte sleeves for quite some time, but I am looking at changing. No issue with the Perfect Fits, but the last few packs of Hyper Matte sleeves seem to be shorter than before. Short enough, that the cards are nearly sticking out the top of the sleeve. This isn't an issue with Dragonshield Mattes though. Might make the change over as I don't like having to monitor the cards to make sure nothing is sticking out after every game.

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