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Thread: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

  1. #561

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    I think you're severely underestimating how bad card disadvantage cards are. Look at their floors as well as the ceilings.
    If you want to profit from card disadvantage, you should be running Ensnaring Bridge somewhere in the 75. But that trick is better suited for either Helm-RiP-Line combo or SnT-Omniscience-Griselbrand combo which wants to LDV their combo pieces with the additional option of finding a Bridge or Terminus for harassment/survival.

  2. #562

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Good morning guys.
    This is the first message I write. Meanwhile, I would like to apologize for the not perfect English.
    That said, it's a year that I've been playing wonders and I'm currently getting along very well with the list that jim davis brought to worcester.
    The only changes I made were: -1 jace, -1 azcanta, -1 path to exile, -1 fetch; +1 entreat, +1 supreme verdict, +1 EE, + 1 tundra.
    I definitely prefer the UW version, with which preban of deathman shaman I have made good results in local tournaments and a top8 in a tournament of 143 players.
    At the moment, however, it seems to me that the goal has changed and I get some perplexities about BtB maindeck and the use of CB, which I never wanted to insert.
    So I wanted to ask you what you think of CB and what answers we can adopt more generally against RUG delver, which presents 10+ counter maindeck (this is a match up that I find really inconvenient)

  3. #563

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Supreme Verdict would help a lot there. Terminus is a little subpar because of the pression and Stifle

  4. #564
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    First, Counterbalance is really good. We're horrible underdogs to storm without it, its still the best card in the mirror, and it's great against RUG. Please stop playing lists without it. If Jim Davis hadn't decided he didn't like that card after playing with the deck for all of a week this wouldn't even be a discussion. Piay Counterbalance.

    Second, Supreme Verdict will not help there; Supreme Verdict is terrible against RUG Delver. There are a few reasons for this.

    1. It lines up horribly against how post board games will actually play. If they have Winter Orb (most will have 2), you can't play a four mana sorcery ever. From a straight mana efficiency perspective, Verdict fails miserably. All their threats are 1-2 mana. They will rarely deploy multiple threats at once. Many people are even taking out Goyfs post board and relying on Nimble Mongoose and TNN being untargetable.

    2. The best cards vs RUG are Counterbalance and Mentor. Because CB is so good, your fetching pattern is often UUUW or UUWU, not UWUW or UUWW. You want to be patient and make land drops, hold up flusters for Stifles early, and cantrip. Then you go for Counterbalance with Fluster up, hence the 3 blue sources. Mentor is a nightmare for RUG. They can't answer it well, and if we play around daze, it dodges most of their permission. Then it dominates the board and invalidates Mongoose while rewarding you for everything you try even when you lose the fight. Supreme Verdict does not help this plan.

  5. #565
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    Yup Grixis is going to be everywhere and so is REB
    Jace feels obsolete even though great.

    I still think 4 Mentor +4 Predict will be great in next meta of discards bolts and Stoneforge Mystic

    Edit: even the mother of every tempo player is playing back 4 Daze and 3 Pierce as well as 4 Stifle.
    Jace is a out imho 4 Mentor and 4 Snapcaster all the way. Also 2xEE in the 75 for Nimble Mongoose
    Mentor impedes itself after a point. I doubt anyone wants to run the numbers on this, but my guess is that it's probably 2 copies or 2/1. Doubt there's much reason to care about UWx Blade; they have about 6 wincons of which 5 lose to Terminus and 4 to SCM/STP. Their postboard deck's plan is still going to just fold to Disenchant (they can't stop playing the equip stuff). Bring in 2nd CJ and every way they could win has to involve sending their blue cards after your white ones. Why try to go all-in on white card wincons when all they will have left over are white cards which answer it (likely board up to 2x Verdict); just win with unopposed blue cards and perhaps the occasional Mentor. The Blade decks have always been fine, but it's just another way to have a worse win % with Tundra since they aren't derp'ing out wins with CB.

  6. #566
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Grixis is one of the most entertaining match ups. The only thing I fear from them is Jace. nearly every other card is irrelevant. Counterbalance is a huge problem for grixis.
    Atm I play 3 Mentor (and 1 Entreat) and 3 Predict. I love the card advatage and predict at all but wouldn't play 4. You have to set it up, even if it's easier than Terminus or entreat.
    I'm stucked in the summer break with no events I could play after the ban. So I have no chance to create a "good" list and I have my Dark Miracles totally in a vacuum. Can't wait to get some real results.

  7. #567

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo900 View Post
    Grixis is one of the most entertaining match ups. The only thing I fear from them is Jace. nearly every other card is irrelevant. Counterbalance is a huge problem for grixis.
    Atm I play 3 Mentor (and 1 Entreat) and 3 Predict. I love the card advatage and predict at all but wouldn't play 4. You have to set it up, even if it's easier than Terminus or entreat.
    I'm stucked in the summer break with no events I could play after the ban. So I have no chance to create a "good" list and I have my Dark Miracles totally in a vacuum. Can't wait to get some real results.
    Three predict are a bit heavy. Against delver based they are really ugly.


    However I think I will listen to your advice, inserting the CB in maindeck and moving the BtB in sideboard (remove the BtB altogether I do not because in some match ups are really strong).


    Instead I still have doubts:
    1) 3 terminus / 3 terminus + 1 supreme verdict / 4 terminus? Which of these options?
    2) leyline of sanctity in side is it worth it? Against thoughtseize / terapy / duress are interesting. Ant should not be a fantastic match up.
    3) 2 or 3 jace TMS?

    Ty!

  8. #568
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    So far I dont have many problems with creatures. 4 Swords to Plowshares with 3 Snapcaster Mage and 3 Terminus were enough until yet.
    At the moment I play 3 Jace; he is a threat, a win con and a solution for many situations. Terminus into jace is often times a point were the opponent loses the game.
    I'm also a bit unsure about Back to Basics. So far it's a powerhouse against 3 color decks with just 2 basics. Or against various stompy decks. My first post deathrite events will come up in august; I will see how much everything changed.

  9. #569

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    2 Back to Basics MD
    2 Azcanta SB

    Each of them is stellar against different decks

  10. #570
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I'm not a huge fan of Search for Azcanta, at least in my list. either get only cantripd out of it or terminus on my hand. It's card advantage, no doubt, which isn't bad.
    Using Mentor as main win con and instrument of pressure, I feel quite bad finding it in Azcanta and have to skip it for a Ponder.
    I loved Search in my Deathblade because I had to chance to get win cons out of it and I felt that all the spells had more individual value than spells in Miracles.
    Maybe I see the deck wrong, the power level or underestimate the cards as single cards in my hand. I think the whole construct of the deck is strong. like a engine, each piece works together. But single cantrips without my powerful part of the engine, the mentor, feel bad.

  11. #571

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Grixis control plays no Wasteland, is commonly played and it’s a super grindy matchup

    There Azcanta shines. EOT Azcanta into Jacestorm seals the match in normally few turns

  12. #572

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Today I participated in a local tournament, I'll give you a very short report.


    First round affront RUG delver. G1 I come to 1 calculated life point, not random, and I win the game after having finished the cards to the opponent and solved a protected jace.
    G2 I lose at the fifth turn, buried by two hundred counters.
    G3 I come back again to 1 life with double counterspell, double swords in hand and the opponent without cards, but ends the time to the 1-1.


    At the second round I face BIG eldrazi. G1 without history, eye of ugin wins the game. G2 I put 2 back to basics and 2 pithing needle inside, but the opponent accumulates enough mana to solve everything with two ulamogs.


    Third round vs eldrazi AGGRO. G1 Easy victory. I solve a terminus and I do a mentor board. G2 I lose from double Thorn of Amethyst. G3 again an easy victory. Board control and then an entreat the angels (five chickens) solves the game.


    Fourth round vs UW stoneblade. I do not remember well how the games went, but I won 2-1 because his threats create problems, while ours, if resolved, make games.


    Fifth round we play for the top. I will again face eldrazi AGGRO.
    G1 I lose it from an explosive departure of mimic, seer, seer and smasher.
    G2 I played a really good game, attentive to everything and I take it to the control board and the +2 of jace.
    G3 mulligan to five. I hold my hand with island, island, plains, back to basics and counterspell. He solves a seer at t2, fortunately without cavern of souls, i counter it and back to basics, a couple of counters and entreat win the game.


    In top8 i affront UB reanimator of my friend, with whom I tested a lot. I already know that I have no chances in G1. In fact I lose it in two minutes counted. Post side I should win (testing I have always won eight out of ten, because of priest, rip, surgical and needle). Instead I open two poor hands (initial hand and mulligan) and lose miserably 0-2.


    The deck seems to me to perform well.
    The conclusions I drew from today's tournament are, briefly:
    1) vendilion in side is needed to deal with BIG eldrazi even more than it is against combos.
    2) too many eldrazi in this meta (or at least in my part) to fully enjoy counterbalance, which I think I still play.
    3) 2 back to basics, at least in side, are necessary. Each tournament brings me a few games home.

  13. #573
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    So Volcanics and Blasts in the sides or BtB in the main? Not really a card availability thing for me, but I do only own 2 Volcanic 3 Tundra, not the 3/3 that you see often.

    I think B2B is strong in my local meta, so that might be enough to tip me towards straight UW, but I'm not entirely clear on it yet without testing myself. I know that I probably don't want to play B2B main as that seems a bit cheesy to me, so maybe 2 Azcanta main and 2 B2B side for a pretty easy swap in relevant matchups?

    How about this list? Any opinions on this? I want to play the 2 Counterbalance but I'm unsure about these Preordains or the maindeck Clique. Everything else looks fine and about what I want to play. Bonus points are that I own 100% of these cards...

    http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19644&d=326025&f=LE

  14. #574

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by ashent View Post
    I think B2B is strong in my local meta, so that might be enough to tip me towards straight UW, but I'm not entirely clear on it yet without testing myself. I know that I probably don't want to play B2B main as that seems a bit cheesy to me, so maybe 2 Azcanta main and 2 B2B side for a pretty easy swap in relevant matchups?
    Just want to point out the obvious synergy between Teferi, Hero of Dominaria and Back to Basics. Currently there're lists floating around focusing on Teferi and have cut Counterbalance completely.

    http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/cov...acy/#top8decks

  15. #575

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I am testing a list with Cliques 1 Karakas and 2 B2B MD

    Containment Priest is less stellar then I thought. Current SnT decks are packing back again Omniscience and I think Meddlingn Mage on SnT is just better.

    He will never be able to Boseiju into Sneak Attack and we can both play Pithing Needle, Priest and Hydroblast.

    Possibly Meddling Mage is a good card back again? We need more combo around

    Predict worst card of the deck. I thought much better of it

  16. #576

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    [QUOTE=ashent;1051980]So Volcanics and Blasts in the sides or BtB in the main? Not really a card availability thing for me, but I do only own 2 Volcanic 3 Tundra, not the 3/3 that you see often.

    I'm playing only 2 tundra (9 basic lands and 9 fetches), so 2 BtB in the main and 1 in the side.
    I dont want to lose vs BIG eldrazi anymore. -.-

  17. #577

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    Just want to point out the obvious synergy between Teferi, Hero of Dominaria and Back to Basics. Currently there're lists floating around focusing on Teferi and have cut Counterbalance completely.

    http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/cov...acy/#top8decks
    I am not sure I would ever cut CB.I feel so better with a Brainstorm or a Snapmage in hand and CB on the field

    I am much more convinced, instead, to play Meddgling Mage. Great for Abrupt Decay and Show and Tell

  18. #578

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Uhhh guess it's time to try Esper Miracles out. Jeeeeez



    Edit: Clearer picture


  19. #579

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    I am not sure I would ever cut CB.I feel so better with a Brainstorm or a Snapmage in hand and CB on the field

    I am much more convinced, instead, to play Meddgling Mage. Great for Abrupt Decay and Show and Tell
    Abrupt is not anymore in meta and UR S&T has solution for meddling mage (pyroblast and more than one win con).

  20. #580

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Ability 1
    Jace is just better. It allows you to see 2 more cards and to get rid of 1 more card.

    Ability 2
    we have no advantage on it other than Snapcaster Mage, but there is no stronger position for it than the hand and Jace can return it to your hand

    Ability 3
    The most senseless and situational fatality ever.
    Totally conditional and our forte is to keep opponent’s board to a minimum through Terminus and StP which is nombo with the only reason why this Planeswalkers is even a card

    Dulcis in fundo, 3 different colors of which one that has nothing else to give us apart from this (and Thoughtseize, ok) in a world that super punishes greedy mana base

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