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Thread: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

  1. #341
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Hi everybody! I'm new here, but I follow this forum from months. I'm testing for a straight UW Mentor Miracle list, and i also cut CB for 3 Spell Pierce, with no Azcanta, because I haven't tried it for now. I see with some testing with some pretty bad matchups like Dragon Stompy, Mono B Pox, BUG Control, that CB is so unstable here, so i preferred pushing for Pierces, due to more response against turn 2 CoTV, some Seize, and why not some Rituals for combos. I know that Flusterstorm is more efficient in a Mentor list, but it can't afford CoTV, or other things( Blood Moon on turn 1, i can't fetch, i'm nearly dead). I also play the 4th Snapcaster in main for having more tempo action for Pierces eventually, we have to reach late game. I'll post you my list, that I', gonna try to an event here in Italy. Suggests are very welcome ^^

    Mentor Miracles by Stonerwolf

    4x Snapcaster Mage
    3x Monastery Mentor

    4x Ponder
    4x Brainstorm
    3x Portent
    3x Predict
    4x FoW
    3x Spell Pierce
    2x Counterspell
    4x StP
    3x Terminus
    2x Unexpectedly Absent
    2x JTMS

    4x Flooded Strand
    3x Polluted Delta
    1x Windswept Heath
    3x Tundra
    1x Karakas
    6x Island
    2x Plains

    Side:
    2x Surgical Extraction
    2x Flusterstorm
    2x Back to Basics
    2x Disenchant
    2x Entreat The Angels
    1x Ethersworn Canonist
    1x Containment Priest
    1x Council's Judgment
    1x Vendilion Clique
    1x Supreme Verdict

    Ps.: Yeah, I play 61 main deck cards ;)

  2. #342
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Stonerwolf View Post
    Ps.: Yeah, I play 61 main deck cards ;)
    Have you tried going down to 19 land? With just two Jaces and that amount of cantrips you should be able to get away with it.

  3. #343
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by klaus View Post
    Have you tried going down to 19 land? With just two Jaces and that amount of cantrips you should be able to get away with it.
    I should try it, but a land cut in a deck who nearly needs a land drop for turn, could it be a good idea?

  4. #344

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Stonerwolf View Post
    I should try it, but a land cut in a deck who nearly needs a land drop for turn, could it be a good idea?
    The discussion of how many lands originally went from 21 to 20. During the DTT era, Miracles lists with really few lands (even Wasteland) were popular because card advantage was so easy. However, 20 became the standard once Mentor became a staple of the deck in/out of the sideboard. Test it out to see if 19 works; I'd guess that 19 might be okay with enough fetches and the basics.

    Your list reminds me of the Mentor Miracle list that Claudio Bonanni has had developing: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-Miracle/page3

    The key inclusion that Bonanni makes is Daze: the Daze build has the ability to pivot very quickly at the expense of some power level and some consistency because of the ability to tap out for Mentor with some counter protection/added value.

    ~~~

    I play a version that's not as strongly tempo drive and has 3 Mentor/3 Snap, but my catchall removal is Engineered Explosives. It was based on the original CounterTop version that ran the same with Predict as the post-ban draw engine: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post956685 & the link Minniehajj refers to about GP Columbus: http://www.thebrainstormshow.com/pod...raculous-lens/

    Using EE in the current metagame can be a little more fragile. I use a basic Mountain, though others run 2x or 3x Volcanic Island. The added value is getting multiple cards with an EE, and avoiding any double color requirements that aren't Blue. (I also don't run Entreat) That being said, needing sometimes to eliminate a Leovold or TNN is almost as challenging.

    The card I've used in my flex slots has been a 2x Disrupt. It's not free like Daze, but has some upside in early interaction--specifically countering hand disruption on T1/2--and is another outlet for instant speed draw. In general though, it's still relatively weak. It's one of the first cards to side out for a blast effect or Flusterstorm. I think that's generally something that keeps the Tempo Mentor builds is that there isn't a really strong free spell to marry with the Mentor. Cabal Therapy is almost there in an Esper shell, but its problem is that it's slower than Pyromancer.

  5. #345
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by t3hmyth View Post
    The key inclusion that Bonanni makes is Daze: the Daze build has the ability to pivot very quickly at the expense of some power level and some consistency because of the ability to tap out for Mentor with some counter protection/added value.

    I've also tested Daze too but this card is better for tempo shells decks, i haven't feel it good here. How much is good investing a bounced land for a free countered spell?

    Spell Pierce did not pass my testing, too unstable, and i forget a big trouble: Cavern Of Souls.
    So Pierce, is useless for now. I'm going back to swap with 2 CB again and 1 EtA.

  6. #346

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I feel UWr should be the default miracles build now. blasts and reb are too good in legacy.

  7. #347
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I'll be streaming the Legacy Challenge today! Playing UWr Miracles and will be joined by the legendary Angelo Cadei after he finishes an IRL event :) Would love if you all joined me!

    https://www.twitch.tv/minnifer/
    Quote Originally Posted by B88 View Post

    People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

  8. #348

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I’ve dug through the primer but couldn’t find a match up analysis for burn. I find I can’t close out games quick enough and they just win. Anyone have strategies for this match up?

  9. #349

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by NimbleJosh View Post
    I’ve dug through the primer but couldn’t find a match up analysis for burn. I find I can’t close out games quick enough and they just win. Anyone have strategies for this match up?
    As we know, mono-red Burn loses to itself due to variance, so you get that going for you. Not to discriminate, but a lot of Burn players miss the Eidolon triggers and Vortex triggers. Hence, be aware of the miss-trigger rule, like really understand it. Ultimately, you want the game state to be Jace + CB and you use Jace to setup what you're floating every turn. Sometimes it's a good idea to just damage race using Mentor. In short, this MU is very difficult without CB. Hence, my first priority would be to find it.

    You can of course SB-in some Burn hate, and that's actually more common in paper event than one would presume. The important issue of side-boarding is to consider what's Burn player's SB: Pillar, Vortex, Firecraft, Vexing Shusher. If you know for sure Firecraft is coming in, RiP is a good way to prevent that eventual inevitability. Disenchant effect are must as it would hit both Eidolon and any other damage dealing enchantments.

    Overall, I would stress that using your StP and Blue cantrips wisely. Always consider the possibility of StP your own creature to stay out of Bolt range. When you cast each Brainstorm/Ponder, anticipate what your Burn opponent's next Burn spell would be. Yes, you're supposed to do that for all MU when you have CB in play, but every spell in this MU matters.

  10. #350

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I'm a U/W stone-blade player here looking to play some miracles. I have just about everything for this deck, with the exception of volcanic islands for the red splash. From what I've seen the only red cards appear in the sideboard. This seems like it would make the volcs nothing but a liability in game 1 by increasing our vulnerability to wasteland. With the inbred, blue infested meta I clearly see the value of having red blasts in the SB, but it seems the deck would still be playable as strictly U/W.

    Could any of the veterans of this deck share their ideas for what a straight U/W version of this deck should look like? I'm really not sure where to start and I'm sure there would be many little things that I just don't know about to consider when dropping red from the deck. Thanks in advance for your time!

  11. #351
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by wolffman View Post
    I'm a U/W stone-blade player here looking to play some miracles. I have just about everything for this deck, with the exception of volcanic islands for the red splash. From what I've seen the only red cards appear in the sideboard. This seems like it would make the volcs nothing but a liability in game 1 by increasing our vulnerability to wasteland. With the inbred, blue infested meta I clearly see the value of having red blasts in the SB, but it seems the deck would still be playable as strictly U/W.

    Could any of the veterans of this deck share their ideas for what a straight U/W version of this deck should look like? I'm really not sure where to start and I'm sure there would be many little things that I just don't know about to consider when dropping red from the deck. Thanks in advance for your time!
    I would say that the deck considerably weaker without the red splash. The cases where you’re punished for the volcanics occur far less than the cases where blasts put in serious work. You would have a very hard time winning the mirror, too. I’d avoid the detour and practice with the red from the beginning..

  12. #352

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Why is no one playing Gideon, Ally of zendikar? For me it such a powerhouse in so many fair match-ups
    Playing one in the sideboard and one in the mainboard

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  13. #353

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Deckerator View Post
    Why is no one playing Gideon, Ally of zendikar? For me it such a powerhouse in so many fair match-ups
    Playing one in the sideboard and one in the mainboard

    Gesendet von meinem Aquaris X5 mit Tapatalk
    I run it as a one of in the sideboard since my meta always has 1-2 czech pile decks floating around. Having a game ending threat that doesn't die to abrupt decay/fatal push or a pyro/reb is outstanding.

  14. #354
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    My problem with Gideon is it's only good when you're at parity or already ahead, not things I like to count on for this deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  15. #355

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Do the miracle decks already have a core deck?
    I am still not sure what is the right configuration after the top ban.

    The addition of 2x Search for Azcanta is an improvement for this deck.
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  16. #356
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Deckerator View Post
    Do the miracle decks already have a core deck?
    I am still not sure what is the right configuration after the top ban.

    The addition of 2x Search for Azcanta is an improvement for this deck.
    1 Arid Mesa
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Plains
    4 Island
    2 Volcanic Island
    3 Tundra
    1 Counterspell
    3 Predict
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Council's Judgment
    3 Portent
    4 Ponder
    4 Terminus
    2 Search for Azcanta
    3 Counterbalance
    1 Entreat the Angels
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Snapcaster Mage

    Sideboard
    2 Monastery Mentor
    3 Surgical Extraction
    3 Flusterstorm
    2 Disenchant
    3 Pyroblast
    1 Council's Judgment
    1 Snapcaster Mage

    Something like this is pretty much stock at the moment, you can cut a predict for a counterspell main, or a snap for a mentor sb and other minor tweaks, but yeah, I'd say this is ~73/75 stock ish.

  17. #357

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by FGCmtg View Post
    1 Arid Mesa
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Plains
    4 Island
    2 Volcanic Island
    3 Tundra
    1 Counterspell
    3 Predict
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Council's Judgment
    3 Portent
    4 Ponder
    4 Terminus
    2 Search for Azcanta
    3 Counterbalance
    1 Entreat the Angels
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Snapcaster Mage

    Sideboard
    2 Monastery Mentor
    3 Surgical Extraction
    3 Flusterstorm
    2 Disenchant
    3 Pyroblast
    1 Council's Judgment
    1 Snapcaster Mage

    Something like this is pretty much stock at the moment, you can cut a predict for a counterspell main, or a snap for a mentor sb and other minor tweaks, but yeah, I'd say this is ~73/75 stock ish.
    Thanks FGC for providing the stock list! i have been thinking of going back to miracles at my LGS this week as well but that place is flooded with chalices. From big eldrazi, white palace jailer chalice concoction to merfolk. Do you think playing 1 EE in the main is good to combat chalice heavy decks? or should I just play 2 council's judgement in the main.

    With only 3 jaces and 1 entreat, do you guys have a problem with ending the game on time? I have always been trying to speed up my play without compromising for errors.

  18. #358
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Two Miracle decks made Top 8 of SCG Philly (team constructed open, though), with others in 11th and 23rd. Also an interesting deck labeled "Jeskai Helm" in 25th. List here http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...y=Philadelphia.

    Joe Brennan's list is particularly interesting, featuring 9 basic lands, 3 terminus without access to Verdict or another sweeper in the 75, and some other interesting choices. Man seems determined not to lose to chalice with 2 Unexpectedly Absent, 1 CJ, and 2 Wear / Tear in the board. Relic is an interesting choice as well. Also Ruination over From the Ashes is honestly very confusing.

    Notably 2 Mentors is a four sideboards. I know a lot of people had been getting away from that card entirely.

  19. #359
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I took 3rd at a 115ish person 4k at Channel Fireball today!


    I have played like 3 paper events in the last 6 months so I have not been too active on this thread lately, but I thought I would share my list since it is a bit different:

    1 Arid Mesa
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Island
    1 Mountain
    1 Plains
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Tundra
    2 Volcanic Island

    3 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Monastery Mentor

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    3 Portent
    2 Predict

    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    2 Counterbalance
    2 Search for Azcanta

    2 Counterspell
    4 Force of Will

    1 Engineered Explosives
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Terminus

    Sideboard:

    1 Council's Judgment
    1 Engineered Explosives
    3 Flusterstorm
    1 From the Ashes
    1 Pithing Needle
    3 Pyroblast
    1 Pyroclasm
    1 Rest in Peace (this should be a 3rd surgical)
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Wear // Tear

    Matchups:
    2-0 ANT, but with some fun/suboptimal card choices
    2-0 D&T
    2-1 Miracles mirror
    1-2 BG depths
    2-0 D&T
    2-1 UR Delver
    2-0 ANT

    I was the 3rd seed, but we just split.



    I am really happy with 4 mentors. They were the MVP all day. In literally every matchup but depths, I got to cast early mentors and win games where I was behind. Against both ANT opponents, I was losing the attrition war, but stole the game with relatively early mentors. Against the 2nd D&T opponent our round was over in 10 minutes! In the miracles mirror, he resolved CB and search, and I got to resolve mentor after and win with little fight back.

    Rest in peace should be a 3rd surgical, I just couldn't find one.

    From the ashes is not a card I feel strongly about and could be something else. I would like something that helps the Depths/lands matchup though.

    If anyone has questions or feedback I would be happy to hear it.

  20. #360

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    ^can you go over the turbo depths matchup? how did you lose to it?

    why the single mountain?

    I know there is a guy on here who plays bg depths and is a cfb local. i think his name is solnox. did you play him?

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