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Thread: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

  1. #281
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Eyyyy DTB status again. Does this mean we finally found Azcanta?
    Quote Originally Posted by B88 View Post

    People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

  2. #282
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I got first place in a small local tournament yesterday (20~ players, 5 rounds Swiss and cut to Top 8) with the following list:

    4 F. Strand
    4 P. Delta
    1 A. Mesa
    4 Island
    1 Plains
    1 Karakas
    3 Tundra
    2 Volcanic Island

    4 Monastery Mentor
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    1 Vendilion Clique
    2 Jace TMS

    4 FoWill
    3 Counterbalance
    1 Soothsaying
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Search for Azcanta
    2 Counterspell
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Terminus
    1 Council's Judgment
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Flusterstorm

    SB:
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Disenchant
    2 Pyroblast
    1 REBlast
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Venser Shaper Savant
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Izzet staticaster
    1 Kozilek's Return
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Blood Moon

    The deck ran very well, and Search for Azcanta in particular is an amazing card. Even without SDT, Counterbalance still pulled its weight. It's arguably even better now that most players aren't expecting it as much.

    Changes I would make going forward:
    -1 Mentor
    -1 Soothsaying
    +1 Jace TMS
    +1 V. Clique

    SB:
    -1 E. Canonist
    +1 C. Priest

    Soothsaying is busted in the late game in tandem with CB, but in that case it's really kind of Win-More. I would also consider running a 3rd copy of Search for Azcanta.

  3. #283
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    hi everyone! today i've reach top4 in my LGS legacy league (33 players)
    my list was: 20 lands, 2 JTMS, 3 SCM, 3 Mentor, 1 Council's Judgment, 4 Terminus, 4 STP, 4 Brainstorm, 4 ponder, 2 Portent, 2 predict, 3 CB, 2 Search, 2 Counterspell, 4 FOW Side: 2 V. Clique, 2 Pyro, 2 Surgical, 1 Containment Priest, 1 Canonist, 2 Blood Moon, 2 Wear//Tear, 1 EE, 2 Flusterstorm

    I've palyed against:
    Burn L 2-0,
    UB reanimator w 2-0,
    Eldrazi w 2-1,
    Grixis delver w 2-0,
    Omnitell w 2-0,
    Ant ID.

    In top8 i have won with Grixis Delver 2-1 and i've lost to dredge 2-0

  4. #284
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Congrats on the results guys, very nice! We also had three copies of Miracles in the challenge top 8 yesterday, with another finals mirror. ItIsUnfair took it down, really impressive after his second place last week.

    Johan Steurs also took down the Belgian Legacy Championship this weekend.

    I've started writing up a sideboard guide for the deck, so far it's covering Grixis Delver, Miracles, 4c Pile, Lands, Sneak and Show, BUG Delver, Eldrazi Stompy, Storm (ANT and TES), Death and Taxes, Aggro Loam, Dredge and Black Red Reanimator. I'll be adding more matchups to it later today.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...kgO7h6sI/edit#
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  5. #285

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Just formatting your list to be easier to read for discussion:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fgi_88 View Post
    my list was:

    20 lands

    3 Snapcaster Mage
    3 Monastery Mentor

    1 Council's Judgment
    4 Terminus
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Portent
    2 Predict
    2 Search for Azcanta

    2 Counterspell
    4 Force of Will
    3 Counterbalance

    2 [Jace, the Mind Sculptor]

    Side:
    2 V. Clique
    2 Pyro[blast?]
    2 Surgical
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Canonist
    2 Blood Moon
    2 Wear//Tear
    1 Engineered Explosives
    2 Flusterstorm
    For people running the counterbalances, do you play them aggressively early game, or later to try to lock it up? Does it differ from when top was available? How aggressively do you use cantrips to set up the top of the deck? Obviously they put even more power in your brainstorms, as they have a pseudo-counterspell mode with CB out - would you consider running a fourth Snapcaster to get even more out of them? I haven't tried it yet but I'm kinda intrigued, the card is obviously very powerful, especially if you catch more than one spell with it.

  6. #286
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    For people running the counterbalances, do you play them aggressively early game, or later to try to lock it up? Does it differ from when top was available? How aggressively do you use cantrips to set up the top of the deck? Obviously they put even more power in your brainstorms, as they have a pseudo-counterspell mode with CB out - would you consider running a fourth Snapcaster to get even more out of them? I haven't tried it yet but I'm kinda intrigued, the card is obviously very powerful, especially if you catch more than one spell with it.
    It really depends on what your hand is like and the matchup. If it's a combo matchup like storm you probably want to slam it asap, similarly with Delver though play around Daze etc. The sooner you get it down vs decks with cantrips the more impact it can have. If you draw it late, then yeah, use it to lock things up ideally. It's obviously a lot worse than with Top, but you can mostly lock people out by predicting their plays and casting Ponders/Portents or activating Jace each turn. Brainstorm is obviously great with it like you say. I don't think the fourth Snap would add a whole lot more to it though, three is quite a lot already and if you're using it to slow the game down enough to find more cantrips and Jace easily enough.

    A little thing with it I've found in a similar vein to Cabal Therapy names, you sometimes want to stack the deck not for what they have a higher chance of playing, but what you're cold to. As an example in the challenge yesterday vs 4c pile I brainstormed in response to a Hymn and didn't find a Pyroblast, so hid a CB with a Jace underneath. They only have two copies of Jace usually, so it was a gamble that they don't just Pyroblast the CB, but it worked out as they had the Jace. If I hadn't, I'd have been run over by it easily. The +2 from Jace would also potentially pave the way for a Pyroblast anyway too if I didn't blind have another 1cmc underneath.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  7. #287
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Whiteface: I don't really agree with some of your sideboarding choices (or your overall deck configuration really, especially the 61st card), but here's my main suggestion:

    In matchups where you need removal (e.g. 4C Leovold Control), why would you be cutting *any* copies of StP? Especially considering how important it is to answer an early Deathrite Shaman? I think you should be more willing to cut Cantrip spells instead, because the function of those cards in the first place is to find the relevant cards they're digging for -- so if there's nothing else that seems worthy of cutting, it's perfectly reasonable to cut some number of your tertiary cantrips like Portent and/or Predict to make room for your sideboard slots. This is especially true considering that if your opponent resolves a Leovold, you won't even be able to profitably cast Draw spells.

    Personally, I don't like the lists that have so much 'air' (i.e. Cantrips) in them. I understand that they make it much easier to dig for particular cards and help use Terminus/Entreat and Counterbalance, but at a certain point you aren't accomplishing much and just seem to be much better off actually playing more 'action' spells. So for me right now, I think 4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder, and 2 Search for Azcanta seems to be plenty of filter to achieve the goals of the deck, without getting too bogged down with a bunch of do-nothing filter. I've been able to use Vendilion Clique to cast an Instant-speed Terminus (and better yet, protect her with a Karakas activation), and along with Jace there's plenty of methods of setting up the relevant interactions.

    I suppose it mostly depends on how you construct the deck, but personally I prefer the fast clock provided by running 3-4 copies of main deck Monastery Mentor. Unlike Entreat, it's not a completely dead card in your opening 7, and it more readily enables you to win against otherwise heavily-unfavorable matchups, e.g Lands. To back Mentor up, I am now running 2 copies of Vendilion Clique along with 3 Snapcaster Magi to help clock the opponent.

  8. #288

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Congrats on the results guys, very nice! We also had three copies of Miracles in the challenge top 8 yesterday, with another finals mirror. ItIsUnfair took it down, really impressive after his second place last week.

    Johan Steurs also took down the Belgian Legacy Championship this weekend.

    I've started writing up a sideboard guide for the deck, so far it's covering Grixis Delver, Miracles, 4c Pile, Lands, Sneak and Show, BUG Delver, Eldrazi Stompy, Storm (ANT and TES), Death and Taxes, Aggro Loam, Dredge and Black Red Reanimator. I'll be adding more matchups to it later today.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...kgO7h6sI/edit#
    That sideboard guide is awesome. Even though I don't play Miracles it's great to see what you prioritize and how you think in the matchups against the decks I DO play. I've noticed a lot of Miracles players boarding out their Terminuses against me on TES, a decision I always find silly. I'm glad that's not the prevailing wisdom. It is worth noting that with the sideboard inclusion of Past in Flames, TES does have the ability to play multiple Tendrils in a longer game. It's not worth bringing in graveyard hate for, but it shouldn't be overlooked if the opponent is committed to playing their outs.
    Riding the Spiral

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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    For people running the counterbalances, do you play them aggressively early game, or later to try to lock it up? Does it differ from when top was available? How aggressively do you use cantrips to set up the top of the deck? Obviously they put even more power in your brainstorms, as they have a pseudo-counterspell mode with CB out - would you consider running a fourth Snapcaster to get even more out of them? I haven't tried it yet but I'm kinda intrigued, the card is obviously very powerful, especially if you catch more than one spell with it.
    Just drop them early game. If they counter it, they counter it. But if they don't, it can take over the game. Personally, I'm of the school of thought to just play into the possible counterspells (obviously, if you can afford to play around Daze then do so, and obviously if it's absolutely *critical* that you resolve something, then mitigate the risks in whichever way possible). But speaking in general, yes, I would suggest just trying to slam Counterbalance on turn 2 whenever possible. I run 3 copies in my list, so it's entirely possible to find another copy if needed.

    Now, some of your other questions are very context-dependent. Against a Delver deck, I do indeed try to aggressively set it up to have a 1-cmc on top whenever possible in order to shield myself from the majority of their spells. Same goes for various forms of combo, e.g. Storm or Reanimator. Now against a Sneak and Show opponent, in the early game you generally want a 1-cmc on top to turn off their cantrips, but as the game progresses to the mid and late-game, you probably want to be floating a 3 and/or 4-cmc card on top (for SNT and Sneak Attack, respectively). In the sideboard games, if you resolved a Containment Priest (which btw, you generally want to keep in your hand and play *in response* to S&T or a Sneak Attack) you might want to keep a 2-cmc on top so as to protect it from Pyroclasm.

    So basically, the answer to a lot of your questions really just depends on the specific context of the matchup and game state.

    The 4th copy of Snapcaster Mage is a completely reasonable card to run, but in my list I feel like it's pretty tight as is and there's currently nothing I'd rather cut for it. Plus, Snapcaster should be seen as a 3-CMC card, so it's important to consider the overall curve of your deck.

  10. #290
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by wcm8 View Post
    Whiteface: I don't really agree with some of your sideboarding choices (or your overall deck configuration really, especially the 61st card), but here's my main suggestion:

    In matchups where you need removal (e.g. 4C Leovold Control), why would you be cutting *any* copies of StP? Especially considering how important it is to answer an early Deathrite Shaman? I think you should be more willing to cut Cantrip spells instead, because the function of those cards in the first place is to find the relevant cards they're digging for -- so if there's nothing else that seems worthy of cutting, it's perfectly reasonable to cut some number of your tertiary cantrips like Portent and/or Predict to make room for your sideboard slots. This is especially true considering that if your opponent resolves a Leovold, you won't even be able to profitably cast Draw spells.

    Personally, I don't like the lists that have so much 'air' (i.e. Cantrips) in them. I understand that they make it much easier to dig for particular cards and help use Terminus/Entreat and Counterbalance, but at a certain point you aren't accomplishing much and just seem to be much better off actually playing more 'action' spells. So for me right now, I think 4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder, and 2 Search for Azcanta seems to be plenty of filter to achieve the goals of the deck, without getting too bogged down with a bunch of do-nothing filter. I've been able to use Vendilion Clique to cast an Instant-speed Terminus (and better yet, protect her with a Karakas activation), and along with Jace there's plenty of methods of setting up the relevant interactions.

    I suppose it mostly depends on how you construct the deck, but personally I prefer the fast clock provided by running 3-4 copies of main deck Monastery Mentor. Unlike Entreat, it's not a completely dead card in your opening 7, and it more readily enables you to win against otherwise heavily-unfavorable matchups, e.g Lands. To back Mentor up, I am now running 2 copies of Vendilion Clique along with 3 Snapcaster Magi to help clock the opponent.

    I'm not actually playing 61 cards, the little bit in the Miracles section was meant to mean I don't want to side out a Portent, but it's the worst card of what's left.

    The 4c pile matchup is all about card advantage from my experience, DRS is the only creature in their deck (they sometimes have one Angler too, which is often boarded out) that you can Swords for card parity, but since we also have Terminus I'd rather leverage that and take something else with it, gaining card advantage. I also don't think DRS is that much of a must answer, not in the same was as from Grixis Delver. In fact, when I was playing 4c I was boarding out all DRSs on the draw, and two on the play since it's a low impact card in the matchup. It's great in the first, say, three turns but after that it becomes really lackluster when bigger things like Kommands, Jace, Hymns, Snaps or from Miracles Search, Counterbalance, Jace, Enteat, Mentor etc are starting to happen. I still respect it enough to leave in two copies of Swords, but it's the only creature I want to ever Swords. Leo in a pinch, but I'd prefer to be using Blasts on the stack or Terminus. I guess the fundamental point of disagreement is I don't think you 'need' removal, or at least not as much as you're suggesting.

    On cutting cantrips over removal because they just find what you're looking for, this doesn't make any sense to me. It's very rare you actually want removal in the matchup, Hymns and Jaces are the scariest things they can throw at you, so cantrips let you find what you need that gets hymned away, be it action or land drops. Predict is also crucial in the matchup to recover cards after Hymns, honestly cutting it is madness to me. But since you say you don't like cantrips, this is simply two different ways of playing the deck. If anything I don't think I'm playing enough, I'd love to have the fourth Portent and a third Predict in the deck. Cantrips are busted, instant speed card advantage and velocity is too. I don't buy the 'too much air' argument either, cantrips are basically what makes this deck so great, it's the consistency and necessity to draw white cards vs creature decks and blue cards vs combo decks that makes them so important. Otherwise if you run too much action over 'air' you'll run into the midrange problem of drawing the wrong cards in the wrong matchup. Legacy doesn't allow you to do that if you're playing a control deck.


    Quote Originally Posted by FavoredRevenant View Post
    That sideboard guide is awesome. Even though I don't play Miracles it's great to see what you prioritize and how you think in the matchups against the decks I DO play. I've noticed a lot of Miracles players boarding out their Terminuses against me on TES, a decision I always find silly. I'm glad that's not the prevailing wisdom. It is worth noting that with the sideboard inclusion of Past in Flames, TES does have the ability to play multiple Tendrils in a longer game. It's not worth bringing in graveyard hate for, but it shouldn't be overlooked if the opponent is committed to playing their outs.
    Glad you found it interesting! Fair point on PiF, agree it's not worth sbing GY hate for, but good to keep in mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  11. #291
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I think you are one of the few players who cuts removal against a deck that relies so heavily on creatures to win the game.

    Yes, it's true that Terminus is the better card in this matchup, but against a decent 4C-control opponent, they're going to typically avoid over-extending into a sweeper and instead deploy few creatures at a time (barring a situation where they've stripped your hand entirely with Hymns and are able to safely pull ahead). So when they're dropping only one creature at a time, you are going to want to answer them as they come out, thus justifying keeping in all copies of Swords to Plowshares. There are likely going to be weaker spells for you to cut instead of removal, e.g. Force of Will, Portent (if you're running it).

  12. #292
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by wcm8 View Post
    I think you are one of the few players who cuts removal against a deck that relies so heavily on creatures to win the game.

    Yes, it's true that Terminus is the better card in this matchup, but against a decent 4C-control opponent, they're going to typically avoid over-extending into a sweeper and instead deploy few creatures at a time (barring a situation where they've stripped your hand entirely with Hymns and are able to safely pull ahead). So when they're dropping only one creature at a time, you are going to want to answer them as they come out, thus justifying keeping in all copies of Swords to Plowshares. There are likely going to be weaker spells for you to cut instead of removal, e.g. Force of Will, Portent (if you're running it).
    I don't want to spend too much time on this, but suffice it to say that prevailing wisdom IS to cut StP vs Czech in some number. It's literally only good vs DRS and that's it. Every other card in their deck is a 2-for-1 that you want to fight back from a 2-for-1 axis. If their creatures hit the table, they will already be up 1 card on us, so fighting them back from an axis that involves us already being behind a card is not a winning proposition. Based on your previous posts, I don't think you fully understand the concept of Card Advantage in a deck such as Miracles or, even if you do understand it, you don't respect and and choose not to employ it in your own play. That's fine, but making sweeping generalizations that are simply untrue is a bit unwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by B88 View Post

    People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

  13. #293
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by wcm8 View Post
    I think you are one of the few players who cuts removal against a deck that relies so heavily on creatures to win the game.
    It may appear that they kill you with creatures, which when taken literally is true, it's chip damage from them. If you're using Swords on Snapcasters and Strix then you're going to run out of cards fast in conjunction to Hymns, Kommands and Jace etc. Once you've run out of cards they're gonna keep playing guys and finish you off, it's not a winning axis to fight on.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    For people running the counterbalances, do you play them aggressively early game, or later to try to lock it up? Does it differ from when top was available? How aggressively do you use cantrips to set up the top of the deck? Obviously they put even more power in your brainstorms, as they have a pseudo-counterspell mode with CB out - would you consider running a fourth Snapcaster to get even more out of them? I haven't tried it yet but I'm kinda intrigued, the card is obviously very powerful, especially if you catch more than one spell with it.
    I'm playing 3 Counterbalance because i really want to slam one of them into the board as soon as possible, i've won several games yesterday simply countering stuff with it while i was sculpting my hand. Also i really want to slam a second balance into the board to be able to do tricky things with fetches and/or predict.

    If you are running mentors i do not think you need the 4rth Snapcaster, but in shell with Entreat the 4rth Snapcaster can be usefull because your main plan is to survive till you are able to put into play several angry angels

  15. #295

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    Just formatting your list to be easier to read for discussion:

    For people running the counterbalances, do you play them aggressively early game, or later to try to lock it up? Does it differ from when top was available? How aggressively do you use cantrips to set up the top of the deck? Obviously they put even more power in your brainstorms, as they have a pseudo-counterspell mode with CB out - would you consider running a fourth Snapcaster to get even more out of them? I haven't tried it yet but I'm kinda intrigued, the card is obviously very powerful, especially if you catch more than one spell with it.
    Though you don't want to run into Daze, it's completely reasonable to jam CB in the early turns. In MU against Storm variant, it's almost imperative to find CB and jam it ASAP, flipping 0-1-2-4 are all very powerful in this case.

    The number of Abrupt Decays has also been on the upswing recently, CB can become a Decay bait if you intend to jam Mentor in the next following turns.

    Using cantrips to set up CB is a bit situational dependent, I don't think there's a set of rules to go by. Against combo decks, I would conserve cantrips for the key combo pieces. Against non-combo, using cantrips to set up CB flip for opponent's permanent generates a lot more values than spells (unless the spell is Ancestral Vision per se). Another use of cantrip set up is putting FoW under your Entreat/Mentor to push through your win-con.

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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    It may appear that they kill you with creatures, which when taken literally is true, it's chip damage from them. If you're using Swords on Snapcasters and Strix then you're going to run out of cards fast in conjunction to Hymns, Kommands and Jace etc. Once you've run out of cards they're gonna keep playing guys and finish you off, it's not a winning axis to fight on.
    The bigger problem is not having a timely answer to Leovold. You won't always get to sandbag a Red Blast to deal with him on the stack, nor will you always have a Terminus set up in time. Them drawing one card from a StP is a fair trade for not shutting off your entire cantrip engine. It seems like most Miracles players are running stuff like Izzet Staticaster and Kozilek's Return as sideboard sweepers, so you don't have that many options to cleanly answer a resolved Leovold. Furthermore, many 4C decks are running bigger threats like Angler and occasionally Tasigur. Obviously it makes sense to leave in Predict to keep up with 4C's card draw/advantage, but at a certain point it seems like dropping StP in favor of Portent/Preordain is going to lose you some games.

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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by wcm8 View Post
    The bigger problem is not having a timely answer to Leovold. You won't always get to sandbag a Red Blast to deal with him on the stack, nor will you always have a Terminus set up in time. Them drawing one card from a StP is a fair trade for not shutting off your entire cantrip engine. It seems like most Miracles players are running stuff like Izzet Staticaster and Kozilek's Return as sideboard sweepers, so you don't have that many options to cleanly answer a resolved Leovold. Furthermore, many 4C decks are running bigger threats like Angler and occasionally Tasigur. Obviously it makes sense to leave in Predict to keep up with 4C's card draw/advantage, but at a certain point it seems like dropping StP in favor of Portent/Preordain is going to lose you some games.
    I think we'll just have to agree to disagree then, if your approach is working for you keep at it, mine is working for me.

    Sometimes you get punked by a turn three Leo and you're just on cantrips, and it feels awful. But I've lost many more games by having Swords rot in my hand when they're attacking from other angles and I can't interact. If you want to put it in 'not always have it', postboard there are 3 blasts, 2 stp, 3 terminus, 1 CJ and 2 Counterspell vs 2 copies of their Leos. More often than not you're casting cantrips the first few turns too, I do keep Leo in mind when doing so. Blast also answers Leo on the battlefield, it's just not as good.
    Last edited by Whitefaces; 12-19-2017 at 11:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  18. #298

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    I think we'll just have to agree to disagree then, if your approach is working for you keep at it, mine is working for me.

    Sometimes you get punked by a turn three Leo and you're just on cantrips, and it feels awful. But I've lost many more games by having Swords rot in my hand when they're attacking from other angles and I can't interact. If you want to put it in 'not always have it', postboard there are 3 blasts, 2 stp, 3 terminus, 1 CJ and 2 Counterspell vs 2 copies of their Leos. More often than not you're casting cantrips the first few turns too, I do keep Leo in mind when doing so. Blast also answers Leo on the battlefield, it's just not as good.
    I agree with you, they are not agresive enough that you should have to keep in all Swords to Plowshares.

    With my last list in the recent legacy challenge I boarded down to 1 stp in these matchups I believe.

  19. #299

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Hey there everyone, I recently picked the deck up both in paper and online and have been testing a few different versions of it. Honestly so far I've enjoyed this UW list the most, it has felt very close to my playstyle and so far has been solid during testing.

    UW Miracles

    MD 60

    Lands 20
    1 Arid Mesa
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Tundra
    1 Karakas
    5 Island
    2 Plains

    Creatures 3
    3 Snapcaster Mage

    Instant/Sorcery 30
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    3 Portent
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Counterspell
    1 Supreme Verdict
    4 Force of Will
    3 Terminus
    1 Entreat the Angels
    3 Predict

    Enchantment 4
    2 Search for Azcanta
    2 Counterbalance

    Planeswalker 3
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    Sideboard 15

    Creatures 5
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Monastery Mentor
    1 Vendilion Clique

    Instant/Sorcery 8
    3 Flusterstorm
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Disenchant
    1 Council's Judgment

    Enchantment 1
    1 Back to Basics

    Planeswalker 1
    1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar


    So far between playing in paper and jamming two player queues on MTGO, I've had trouble with burn and UR delver (BUG and Grixis are not really problematic outside of BUG's hymns) 4c has felt somewhat close to even, but the boarded games where I draw BtB or Gideon are usually blown wide open. I'm not super convinced I need one of each of these, and could see dropping Gideon for another BtB, or just dropping one or the other for something like Null Rod that has more applications against combo decks, although so far I've felt fairly well positioned against them.

    Matches so far

    2-1 VS Mono red Sneak Attack
    2-0 VS UWR Miracles (At least 2 Counterbalance)
    2-0 VS A weird UR Goblins list that splashed for BS/Ponder/Force of will, unsure what else but seemed spicy
    2-1 VS Infect
    2-1 VS ANT
    1-2 VS Burn
    1-2 VS Infect
    0-2 VS Death and Taxes
    2-1 VS BR Reanimator.
    1-2 VS 4c Pile
    2-1 VS 4c Pile
    1-2 VS UR Delver
    2-1 VS Grixis Delver

    These have been split up between paper testing and MTGO results, but so far the list feels really strong. Would appreciate any criticisms or comments that people have, as I said I'm new to the deck and looking to learn and grow as a player with it. :) Thanks for reading.

  20. #300
    Team Bad Guys
    mossivo1986's Avatar
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    You lost ALOT of matches a counterbalance based deck "should" win. Thats probobly why without top its pretty weak.

    Also where are your win conditions. This seems like a bigger problem.

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