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Thread: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

  1. #401

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    kenta hiroki asked me a couple questions about miracles after the MTG First 40 duals event. You can find the link here: http://www.hareruyamtg.com/article/s...esmartphone=on . The article is in Japanese (and has trimmed some of what I wrote), but you can find the unabridged English version below. Enjoy!

    Q:so the first question is basic. Why do you like Miracles and how long have you playing the deck?

    A: I started playing Miracles in the spring of 2014 after challenging myself to improve at Magic. I had only recently started playing competitive Legacy and found myself losing more than I wanted with my deck at the time - Show & Tell. After some serious self-reflection, I realized the reason I was losing so much was partly due to my play but also a function of the deck I was playing. I found myself too many times in situations where my linear deck simply didn't have the options available to handle unfavorable board-states or allow me to leverage my skill as player against my opponent. Around this time Reid Duke wrote an article, "The Best Way to Win in Legacy", in which he described how the recipe to success in the format was sticking with one deck and mastering it. Admittedly, I was guilty of flip-flopping through a number of decks, so I decided then and there to follow Reid's advice, pick 1 deck, and never let it go. After lots of browsing, I stumbled on the Miracles gameplay of Brian-Braun Duin and Joe Lossett, and the spike in me instantly started drooling as I watched the two masters Matrix-dodge their way through all the tricks and traps their opponents threw at them. And yeah, it was love at first spin. Sure, I had no idea what I was doing when I started, but I could sense the seemingly limitless depth and flexibility the deck presented. Today, thousands of spins and a ban later, the deck has a lot less raw power but still retains that depth of options that rewards me for playing the deck well.

    Q: Yeah, from my experience, miracles was the deck that I didnt know the right play every single game how many I tried to go back and think. so Speaking of top, how did top ban change? I know that was the drastic change, but the deck has still been keep up in top tier.

    A: Yeah the Top ban was devastating both for the deck and for me personally. From the deck's perspective, the most obvious loss was the Top-Counterbalance soft lock. No longer is there this low-investment late game destroyer. But for me, what I missed the most was being able to stop all the turbo xerox nonsense the hyper-efficient Legacy decks are capable of, like Probe into Ponder, Therapy, flashback Therapy gg kind of thing. The lock was very good at slowing down the pace of the game, and after the ban I was definitely struggling with Miracles to beat those strategies. Don't get me started about dying to Bolt!! Of course, there were other downsides too - not being able to reliably cast Terminus at instant speed or hide critical spells from discard or even have a consistent engine to support my favorite card, Predict. The deck just felt a lot less consistent, but that made sense since you no longer had the reliability of Top. Playing matchups the way I did before the ban also just didn't work. Turns out, the deck changed a lot more than I initially thought. It was the subtle things - like having to use my removal more aggressively against Delver to not get burned out or having to Force of Will creatures more often or even playing with cards I never played with before like Leyline of Sanctity. When I first started playing right after the ban, the deck seemed really bad. It still had some power behind Terminus, but it just kept dying to itself, aka too inconsistent to keep up with the more efficient decks. Let me tell you - Portent is no replacement for Divining Top. In fact, that card is really, really bad. It just happens to work really well with Terminus and Terminus is almost the only reason to play this deck now. Things had to change. And they did! The first few drafts that were succeeding, largely due to the innovation of Callum Smith, Nicklas Lallo, and friends, were just UW Predict-value piles that maxxed out on cantrips and card draw and tried to bury the opponent in card advantage. There were some obvious flaws with this early version. Storm using Cabal Therapy was just too efficient at shredding the defensive 7-card hand. Hymn to Tourach allowed Czech Pile to snowball into the better Snapcaster control deck. Loam and Punishing Fire in game 1 were unbeatable. And even Grixis Delver, a matchup that was favored (slightly) for Miracles, would just counter Predict and make the Miracles deck too inconsistent. In other words, if our answers didn't line up well with the threats our opponent presented, we lost. Previously we had CB+Top to handle the random elements, but now... not so much. I don't remember where on the timeline it happened, but I had been keeping track of the players who had been succeeding with UW control, mostly players from Japan and Dan "61/14" Miller. And the common card that they were playing that I wasn't was... surprise! Counterbalance. My gut reaction after the ban was that the card was just too inconsistent to rely on. The closest we could come to locking someone out was with Jace, the Mind Sculptor in play, but even then we could only eliminate a single CMC. But after playing with the card some, I realized that it was more than good enough, and significantly better than the other cards it was replacing, like Ethersworn Canonist and Leyline. And if you think about it, it makes sense. Lock out CMC 1 vs the Probe/Therapy decks or put two CMC 2 spells to beat Lands. Blind flip to reveal for fetches and Predict. And so on. Also, playing more with the deck we were able to learn how we needed to adapt our play to start winning matchups again. The deck is a different beast and now requires different strategies and tactics to win. But what made the deck "okay" to "reasonably good" in my eyes was the 1U Ixalan enchantment - Search for Azcanta.

    Q: so from your list last weekend, how did you come up with the list. Some interesting approach like No mentors in the main and SB, total 4 Flusters main and sb, 3-1 split sweeper, Back to basics.


    A: My list is definitely impacted by my preferences in playing the deck. To explain this it is necessary to understand my deckbuilding philosophy, which is built on the pillar of favoring consistency over power. The idea here is that, even though I will have fewer of the glamorous 1-of "whammy" cards, my deck will be packed with generic answers that are applicable across the broad spectrum of all Legacy decks. For example, instead of playing 2 Ethersworn Canonists that are good mostly vs Storm, I have the 3rd and 4th Flusterstorms which can come in against Delver and Czech Pile. Or, instead of Izzet Staticaster for Death & Taxes/Infect/Elves, I have Supreme Verdict for ALL creature decks. Sure, Canonist and Staticaster are more powerful in the matchups they are great in, but Flusterstorm and Verdict are more powerful in the matchups the other two cards are worse in. I would be okay with Flusterstorm in the Storm matchup, but definitely not be okay with Canonist in the Delver matchup. Additional justification for playing the 50/50 cards over the 70/30 cards is I can leverage my skill to bump that 50 to a 51 or 52 so that over the course of infinite games I win more matches overall than with the 70/30 cards. Thus, I prefer cards with a high floor and low ceiling.

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    3 Portent
    3 Search for Azcanta
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Predict
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Terminus
    1 Supreme Verdict
    1 Council's Judgment
    4 Force of Will
    2 Counterbalance
    1 Counterspell
    1 Flusterstorm
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Back to Basics
    1 Entreat the Angels
    2 Tundra
    2 Volcanic Island
    5 Island
    2 Plains
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Scalding Tarn
    2 Arid Mesa

    3 Flusterstorm
    3 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Back to Basics
    1 Supreme Verdict
    1 Disenchant
    2 Engineered Explosives


    To go through specific card choices for the maindeck:

    2 Portent vs 3 Portent - I think this was one of the tougher choices to make, as silly as that might sound. Its actually really difficult to measure the impact of playing or not playing a single cantrip because the metrics to evaluate it are just too subjective. Its not as easy a decision as Swords over Bolt where I can see the Bolt not kill the Tarmogoyf, its always a question of whether I am finding my deck consistent "enough". Did I draw the Disenchant for the Sylvan Library on time? Did I find my 4th land drop on turn 4 for Jace? In those situations I just think its easier to be lazy and default to the safer choice of 3 Portent. It means I'll have fewer 1-land hands with no cantrips. It means I'll be able to proc Terminus on my opponent's turn more often. It means I'll have one less card to have to worry about boarding out. Its the type of stress thats probably not worth the trouble of worrying about. So why not 4 Portent, Anuraag? Let's be clear - Portent is still a bad card. A baaaaaaad, bad card. I've already come to terms with playing it, but too many times I've been at 4 life looking for that Plow to stop my opponent's Deathrite only to draw...

    3 Search For Azcanta, 2 Snapcaster Mage, 2 Predict - The way I came about these numbers was interesting. My list from the SCG Team Open in November featured 3 of each of these cards. If you know me, you know I love me some Predict. And Snapcaster Mage has been a 3-of staple in the deck for who knows how long. Most lists only play 2 Search. Anuraag, what are you doing?! Let me explain. Remember, my deck needs to operate as consistently as possible. On turn 3, Predict drawing two cards is far, far more powerful than Search for Azcanta's pseudo-scry ability. But what are the worst case scenarios, especially in the highest ELOs? In my experience, an early Predict is very difficult to resolve postboard in the fair blue matchups. The card has proven its value and (I like to think) it's earned the respect it deserves. So unlike before, my opponents now aggressively counter it when possible. When I can't fight to protect it, the card can be so painful to play with. The reason is that it just costs too much. I am okay with spending a turn to try to draw some cards - playing Terminus gives me that luxury. But what I am not okay with is sacrificing percentage points by suboptimally stacking my cantrips in a way that punishes me if Predict doesn't resolve. Before, I had Top to simply reorder the cards. But now, my cantrips work one time and one time only, so drawing even 1 card is an inefficiency I have learned I cannot afford. Cutting the 3rd Snapcaster Mage is something new for me - I did it back when I won Eternal Extravaganza 6, but like every other blue mage, if I can play 4 I most definitely will. The issue with Snapcaster I find comes very specifically from the Grixis Delver matchup. Arguably (Bob, if you're reading this close your browser now) the current best deck in Legacy , I want to win this matchup all the time every time. The situations I find myself losing are the ones where I can't escape the early game. Maybe I draw too many duals, maybe my opponent YOLOs into a Terminus but doesn't get punished. But the one that feels the worst is looking at a hand of 2 or 3 Snapcasters on turn 4 with a graveyard of Ponders and a Deathrite on the other side of the table. It's great in the late game when both sides are topdecking, but in the early game it can be a little clunky and too easy to interact with. My solution for the lack of Predict and Snapcaster is to play 3 Search for Azcanta, the card I think is almost solely responsible for the deck's recent success. The card is an engine all on its own - in the early game it filters away cards you don't need, in the mid-game it ramps you to snowball faster, and in the late game it drowns the opponent in card advantage. Of these 3 effects, transforming into a blue source is probably the most powerful, followed by the early game filtering and lastly the card draw. However, the takeaway should be that the card functions by itself. It doesn't require me to know the top card of my deck or need me to have cast certain spells to be especially useful. It is more consistent, but less powerful. Sound familiar?

    3 Terminus 1 Supreme Verdict - This split is a function of playing Search for Azcanta. While Terminus is the reason to play Miracles, there's a slight issue with finding it off a Sunken Ruin activation and then not being able to cast it for a turn or two. Verdict solves this issue by giving me something I can dig for and cast with relative (-to-Terminus) ease. And let's be real - "uncounterable" is silly. Really silly. Verdict doesn't come without downside though; there are definitely situations where it is strictly worse than Terminus. On turns 1 to 3, it does almost nothing. It will only ever be sorcery speed in this list. The worst part of this card is the WW cost. Playing Verdict actually disrupts the deck's entire construction. On turn 4 I'd ideally have UUUW to maybe play Counterbalance or Snapcaster+Cantrip and protect it with Flusterstorm. Now there are more situations where I find myself fetching UUWW to cast Verdict through Wasteland. With UUWW, boarding patterns and the range of counterspells I can play is affected, which brings me to the next point...


    2 Counterbalance, 1 Counterspell, 1 Flusterstorm - Mana is everything in Magic. It's the fundamental axis on which the game revolves around. Accordingly, the spells I want to play must align with what I can cast. As I mentioned earlier, UUU in a world of WW spells is difficult to accomplish. My tradeoff is limiting as many UU spells as I can, and the result is this countermagic configuration. I still want at least one copy of Counterspell as its universal applicability makes it a great card to draw to in the mid and late game. Unfortunately I am not a fan of additional copies in the 75 as the card can actually be quite inefficient in stages of the game where I need to operate as low to the ground as possible. Specifically this is on turn 1 to 3 for matchups like BUG Delver or Czech Pile where Counterspell could be a great card, but not necessarily in that moment or against more cheaply costed spells. To retain the density of countermagic in my maindeck, I've opted for a single copy of Flusterstorm. Flusterstorm is still great in the fair blue and combo matchups in game 1, to the point where the downside is a risk I am comfortable taking. In this situation, I err to power over consistency because without Flusterstorm in the deck, I do not feel like I meet the baseline power-level the deck needs to perform. Finally, the Counterbalances. Counterbalance is a card I am torn on. It has the potential to be backbreakingly powerful, yet is clearly imbued with blind-flip variance. It's a great tool to have in game 1 against decks like Lands or Storm, where you can manipulate the top of your deck to almost completely shut down their strategies. It's also great to prison out your opponent on turn 10 when your Jace is drawing cards every turn. The situations where I am not a fan are the low-resource game states where you've burned all your cantrips trying to survive and are now in topdeck mode. Its just very disheartening to have your opponent topdeck a creature of a random CMC only to have you flip a fetchland. Don't get me wrong though - the card is absolutely necessary. It gives the deck a semblance of inevitability that gives Miracles its very draw-go essence. But to rely on it like we did in the past with Top is definitely a trap.

    1 Back to Basics - To make up for not playing the 3rd Counterbalance yet still wanting more prison aspects to the deck, I chose to play 1 Back to Basics. I was never a huge fan of this card but lately have really enjoyed this effect against the tier 1 decks. Obviously this card shines when your opponent (correctly) assumes you play no Wastelands and only fetches duals. It's also great very specifically against Rishadan Port, one of the few cards that can steal inevitability away from this deck. But despite being vulnerable to freshly drawn lands in a way Blood Moon is not, I think that Back to Basics forcing my opponent to commit more resources is a very underrated benefit of the card. One of the most sinister poisons in high-octane Legacy matches is drawing your 5th or 6th land and immediately committing it as a resource. Unlike other formats, Legacy is extremely efficient, so the diminishing returns in land drops is especially real. You don't (usually) need 8 lands in play to cast the 3 1-mana spells in your hand. Instead, its probably better to save those lands for a more powerful Brainstorm down the line. But, when Back to Basics forces any player to commit more lands to cast spells, those unrefundable resources become a liability that the Miracles player can capitalize on. One downside to Back to Basics is that it does not synergize well with Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin. As poor as it sounds, in testing these situations usually do not matter too much as either Back to Basics has locked up the game, will stay in my hand uncast, or Azcanta has drawn enough cards to not be necessary anymore.

    1 Entreat, 0 Mentor - "So what's the consensus now? Mentor or Entreat? Which is better?". I hear this question a lot, and every time I say what I say now - it's preference. In a deck like Miracles, the actual threat that ends the game rarely matters from a theoretical perspective. As Miracles-Master-turned-vegan-monk Philipp Schoenegger once said, "If I could win all my matches with a single copy of Raging Goblin as a wincon, I would do just that". To determine whether Entreat or Mentor or something else is "better", the first question one must answer is "How do I want to play this deck?". Personally, I prefer the style of playing to "not lose" rather than playing to win. It may sound a little backwards but the idea is that once I have established control using cards like Jace, Counterbalance, or Back to Basics, the actual win will ...inevitably... come, so I focus entirely on stabilizing and pulling ahead when I can. For this kind of strategy, I choose to play Entreat as it is the most powerful and resilient one-card combo available. Even though the flurry of angels isn't as readily available on my opponent's endstep, 20 to 28 power worth of flyers is still impressively difficult to manage for the average opponent. Monastery Mentor is definitely a powerful counterpart to Entreat. Untapping on any turn with Mentor in play is usually lights out. My issue with Mentor is that a lot of things have to go right for Mentor to take off. The biggest issue with Mentor is that it is significantly less resilient. Dying to almost every removal spell especially sucks since its a lot harder to protect Mentor with Counterbalance. This fragility means I'll likely have to play multiple copies of Mentor since I can't rely on just the single copy. Suddenly, my deck becomes more focused on winning rather than not dying, and that is not in line with my overall game plan. Mentor is really good against postboard nonsense like Bitterblossom or Winter Orb in ways that my current list is not. However, I believe the other situations one might call for Mentor are sufficiently handled by other card choices, like the 2nd Verdict or 4th Blast. I might lose some percentage points against really narrow hate, but the percentage points I gain by playing Entreat are for now more than I am losing otherwise.


    Manabase - 5th Island over 3rd Tundra to complement Back to Basics.


    With regards to the sideboard, I think the individual choices make sense when you look at how they perform against the different subsections of Legacy decks - Flusterstorm is great vs combo, Blast is great vs fair blue decks, Surgical for graveyard hate, and the remaining removal spells and mana denial for the non-blue decks. However, you'll notice when looking at my sideboard that there is a lot of redundancy. Cards you might find in my list and not others are the 4th copies of Flusterstorm and Blast. Postboard I really want my deck to be as lean as possible, and these 1-mana spells are probably the best in the business. 4 Blast is nothing new, but the 4th Flusterstorm needs a little justification. As a control deck, I typically have targets in the back of my mind for what I want to beat. Notably, the decks I am interested in absolutely crushing are Delver and Czech Pile. What I've learned through infinite games is that Flusterstorm is phenomenal both offensively and defensively against this deck. On the play or draw it's absolutely remarkable at stopping Hymn to Tourach (the most important threat Pile can present), Stifle, Force, Blast and any Brainstorms along the way. Most people might not enjoy the extra Flusterstorms in these matchups, but on turns 1 and 2 I always found myself begging to have just one copy in my hand. The downside is that in the late game the card is not as great, but my focus in these matchups is to survive first and let my stronger cards (Search, Jace, etc) do the heavy lifting later on. The way my sideboard is constructed at the moment, there are some glaring weaknesses. But currently the meta is not in a position to take advantage of those weaknesses so I will keep playing this configuration.
    Last edited by AnziD; 02-16-2018 at 10:06 AM.

  2. #402

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Hello, I participated in a 1k that turned into a 2k at Gaming Etc in Acton Mass over the weekend. Finished 14th out of 95 with a 5-2 record. Had my breakers been better I could have been top 8. Here’s the list…
    3x Snapcaser
    3x Monastery Mentor
    2x Jace the Mind Sculptor
    3x Counterbalance
    1x Search for Azcatana
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Ponder
    3x Portent
    2x Predict
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    4x Force of Will
    4x Terminus
    2x Counterspell
    1x Unexpectedly Absent
    1x Arid Mesa
    4x Flooded Strand
    4x Scalding Tarn
    3x Tundra
    2x Volcanic Island
    4 x Islands
    2x Plains
    Side Board:
    1x Karakas
    1x Engineered Explosives
    2x Surgical Extraction
    3x Red Blast
    2x Flusterstorm
    2x Disenchant
    1x Containment Priest
    1x Ethersworn Cannonist
    1x Vendilion Clique
    1x Bloodmoon
    Round 1 (Miracles):
    Game one we did a little back and forth. I landed a mentor while he had two cards. One is a swords, I force. The other is a swords, I force. We are both hell bent. He rips a blind terminus. In the next few turns he lands a Jace and counterbalance. I scoop it up before we kill too much time. Out 4x Swords and 2x Terminus, In 3x Blast 2x disenchant. Game two I get a turn two counter balance followed by a mentor. I floated a terminus on top of my deck which countered 2 of his. Mentor seals the deal in two turns. Game three, read game two again… (1-0)
    Round 2 (4c Control):
    I don’t remember much about this match other then Hymm hit me 4 times in the two games I lost. (1-1)
    Round 3 (Burn):
    Game one I land a turn two counter balance. I had to play pretty tight as my life was at 1. I ended up storming off with mentor for the win. Out 3x terminus 1x UA In 2x fluster 2x disenchant. Game two was pretty much the same. He kept a spell heavy hand and was punished by counter balance. He did try to fireblast me in response to an alpha strike, I swordsed a 5/5 monk to stay alive and win. (2-1)
    Round 4 (Belcher):
    Game one I got belched. Out 4x swords, 2x terminus In 2x flusterstorm, 2x disenchant, 1x EE 1x Cannonist. I’m on the play, he storms off and make 22 goblins turn 1. I drop and EE turn 2 and wipe his board. I slowly win with a Jace ultimate. Game 3 my opener was 2 force, flusterstorm and some assortment of lands and cantrips. He doesn’t attempt a turn one win. Turn two he storms into empty which I fluster. He has enough mana to drop belcher which I force. I win the match off a mentor. (3-1)
    Round 5 (4c Control):
    Game one takes 35 minutes and I loose. Out 3x swords and 1x terminus, in 3x red blast and 1x EE. He never saw a red source game 1 and is shocked when his Leo is blasted off a fetch. I close the game quick with mentor. Game three goes to time. I’m at 6 and he’s at 4. I have a monk token and snap, he has 2 DRS. I top deck an EE and pop it for 1 and swing. He gained life off his DRS pre pop so he’s still at 4. He rips a Leo, I counter it, he salts out. (4-1)
    Round 6 (Punishing Theives)
    Game one is interesting; I have no idea what he’s playing. At one point I brainstorm and he slams a notion thief. He draws his two cards as I put two back. I then say, “poo I had a swords I could have played.” He puts his two cards back on his deck and says, “Then play it, you’re good.” Guy was great. Long story short, I couldn’t compete with his threat density (LotV, Jace, Chandra, Dak) and he had punishing fire to deal with mentor. My opponent was great but I felt the match was unwinnable. I lost in game two. (4-2)
    Round 7 (Lands):
    Game one he has a fast combo and I have no way to deal. Out 1x counterbalance 1x counterspell 4x terminus, in 1x bloodmoon, 2x disenchant, 2x surgical 1x karakas. Game two I baited his wasteland with a volcanic and landed a karakas to bounce his token. I then stormed off with mentor. Game three was very slow, he turn 2 sphere which was forced and turn three sphere which was countered. I landed a mentor. He attempts to punishing fire while I’m tapped out. In response I surgicaled a random card in his grave yard. I built a small army of tokens to the point where I swordsed his ML token and was still able to kill him through the 20 life gain.
    Overall the deck felt solid. 4c Control is annoying, seems to be very draw dependant. The thieves deck also seemed almost unwinnable. I probably could have boarded better, he said red blasts and karakas and clique would have been good against him.. Not sure I like the SB karakas but I never went up against S&T or reanimater.

  3. #403

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by NimbleJosh View Post
    Hello, I participated in a 1k that turned into a 2k at Gaming Etc in Acton Mass over the weekend. Finished 14th out of 95 with a 5-2 record. Had my breakers been better I could have been top 8.
    Congrats! I was at the same tournament and finished 3-2-2, out of even top 32 contention. Both draws were against Port/Vial decks, and had games where my opponent had 3+ Ports keeping me off actually winning, even though he had no other action. One went to time in game 3 where I had a won board state; in the other I won a grindy, come-from-behind game 2 with less than a minute on the clock. I was playing Entreat + CJ in the main instead of Mentor, and with some differences in the sideboard as well.

    Was your Lands opponent named Jim, by any chance? I played him on Lands in R2 and lost to two Spheres on board in game 3. (I didn't have the counters or the Disenchants.) Super nice guy.

  4. #404

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by AnziD View Post
    kenta hiroki asked me a couple questions about miracles after the MTG First 40 duals event. You can find the link here: http://www.hareruyamtg.com/article/s...esmartphone=on . The article is in Japanese (and has trimmed some of what I wrote), but you can find the unabridged English version below. Enjoy!
    This was really interesting. Thanks for sharing!

  5. #405

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by AppallinglyDull View Post
    Congrats! I was at the same tournament and finished 3-2-2, out of even top 32 contention. Both draws were against Port/Vial decks, and had games where my opponent had 3+ Ports keeping me off actually winning, even though he had no other action. One went to time in game 3 where I had a won board state; in the other I won a grindy, come-from-behind game 2 with less than a minute on the clock. I was playing Entreat + CJ in the main instead of Mentor, and with some differences in the sideboard as well.

    Was your Lands opponent named Jim, by any chance? I played him on Lands in R2 and lost to two Spheres on board in game 3. (I didn't have the counters or the Disenchants.) Super nice guy.
    I don’t think his name was Jim.

  6. #406

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    i'm just back home from Eternal Clash in northern Germany. We had 103 Players this time. I played the following Decklist:
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    1 Entreat the Angels
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Portent
    2 Predict
    4 Force of Will
    2 Counterbalance
    1 Counterspell
    1 Flusterstorm
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Terminus
    1 Councils Judgement
    1 Engineered Explosives
    3 Jace, tms
    2 Search for Azcanta
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Scalding Tarn
    2 Arid Mesa
    3 Tundra
    2 Volcanic Island
    4 Island
    2 Plains

    Sideboard
    3 Pyroblast
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Monastery Mentor
    2 Disenchant
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Counterbalance
    1 Sorcerers Spyglas

    Round 1 vs Elves
    Game 1 a timly Terminus cleans up the board followed by a Entreat for 3 tokens which was good enough.
    Sideboard: -1 Jace, -1 Counterspell, -1 Plains // + 2 Monastery Mentor, +1 Flusterstorm
    Game 2 he starts with turn 1 zenith for arbor turn 2 visionry + Symbiote. i have the sword and follow with a turn 2 search for azcanta (i actually don't like boarding search out vs decks that potentially board in choke vs. us) he later gets choke in play but my flipped azcanta keeps me in play until i can explosive the choke, followed up by a jace and entreat again
    Round 2 vs Miracles
    game 1 i start with turn 2 azcanta vs his turn 2 balance. I wait until azcanta flippes and have explosives just when he dropped his own search so i can trade 2 for 1. The game proceeds for another 15 minutes until i hace a kill. He played with 2 mentor and 2 absent maindeck which spelled some trouble but i got to manage it. With 15 minutes left we start game 2. he had turn 3 clique which beat me down to 8 but i then got balance, search along a mentor online which was obv good.
    Sideboarding
    - 4 Swords, -2 Terminus, -2 Plains, -1 Entreat, // + 3 Pyroblast, +2 Flusterstorm, + 1 Counterbalance, +1 Red Elemental Blast, +2 Mentor
    Round 3 vs Eldrazi
    Game 1 i got smashed pretty fast by turn 1 Chalice into Dorks with me having loads of cantrips in hand. Game 2 he had turn 1 thorn which ai can force, than i got an timly terminus followed by snapcaster beats. Game 3 i mull to six and keep Flooded Strand, Jace, Portent, Swords, Explosives, Brainstorm. HE starts with turn 1 Thorn which is really bad news but i draw my second land in time and cast portent just after he had Thought-Knot Seer for my Swords. Portent shows me another Portent, another jace and a Terminus. I think for quiet a long time and choose to shuffel and draw because i thought i just need to draw a land in time which was propably wrong. he dropped smasher and killed me in 2 swings. i guess i just need to take the terminus in my next turn and hope to draw some lands afterwards.
    Sideboarding
    -2 Counterbalance, -1 Counterspell, -1 Flusterstorm, -1 Jace // + 2 Mentor, 2 Disenchant, 1 Spyglas

    Round 4 vs Ur-Delver
    Both games i manage to to stabilize on just unter 10 life with balance and jace in play which is good enough.
    Sideboarding
    -1 Jace, -Judgement, 2 search, 2 Force, Counterspell // +2 Flusterstorm, 2 Mentor, 1 Counterbalance, 2 Pyroblast

    Round 5 vs Elves
    I fail to draw very timly Terminus which leaves him with a Cradle that makes tons of mana. Game 1 i can counter a deadly natural order but the following nissa is to good. Game two i get choked but my flipped azcanta keeps me in play until i have explosives for choke but in the same turn he has nissa which is to good again.
    Sideboarding
    -1 Jace, 1 Predict, 1 Counterspell, 1 Plains // + 2 Mentor, 1 Flusterstorm, 1 Spyglas (i'm still not happy with my boarding vs elves. i knew that he was on 2 nissa maindeck so i decided to board the spyglas too)
    Round 6 Omni Show
    Game 1 i have counterspell and force earlyon but just island and plains for lands so i need to cantrip for my 3rd land, but doesn't have counterspell up because of my plains after i forced a turn 2 show and till, which makes sneak attack to good to beat. Game 2 and 3 i Board a massiv amount of cards and surgical show and tell in both games and shut sown sneak attack with spyglas in both postboard games.
    Sideboarding
    -4 Sowrds, 4 Termins, 2 Plains, 1 Search, 1 Judgement, 1 Explosives, 1 Entreat // + 3 Pyroblast, 3 Surgical, 2 Flusterstorm, 2 Mentor, 2 Disenchant, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 1 Spyglas

    Round 7 vs Grixis Delver
    Game 1 i can handle every creature he throws at me and land a jace on 7 life which takes the game. Game 2 i mull to 5 and keep a hand with 2 lands, fluster search and balance which is ok and keeps me in play for a few turns but i get grinded out in the end. Game 3 i land a counterbalance which counters 3 spells. i find a really timly terminus for 2 creatures in 7 life when he had 2 bolts left in hand. after that i can land jace and he responds with one of his bolts. i reaveal another 1 drop on top and jace takes down the game.
    Sideboarding
    -2 Force of will, -1 Counterspell, -1 Search for Azcanta, -1 Jace // +2 Mentor, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Counterbalance

    5-2 in the end is good enough for 11th. I had loads of fun again and the only changes i might make is cutting a 4th blasteffect for the 4th snapcaster but i am still not sure on this. Another thing that might me ok is cutting the 3rd surgical or 3rd balance for a single leyline of sanctity in the board. Especially the spyglas was really good all day and i would keep it for the moment. I would really love some feedback to my keep in game 3 and the situation with my portent on turn 2 as well as my sideboarding vs elves.

  7. #407

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Wurst_ View Post
    Sideboarding
    - 4 Swords, -2 Terminus, -2 Plains, -1 Entreat, // + 3 Pyroblast, +2 Flusterstorm, + 1 Counterbalance, +1 Red Elemental Blast, +2 Mentor

    5-2 in the end is good enough for 11th. I had loads of fun again and the only changes i might make is cutting a 4th blasteffect for the 4th snapcaster but i am still not sure on this. Another thing that might me ok is cutting the 3rd surgical or 3rd balance for a single leyline of sanctity in the board. Especially the spyglas was really good all day and i would keep it for the moment. I would really love some feedback to my keep in game 3 and the situation with my portent on turn 2 as well as my sideboarding vs elves.
    Cutting 2 plains is pretty extreme, I would only do this if I were on the draw for game 2. I can see 19 in certain MU, but not in mirror.

    I know most MTGO players are running 4 Blast + 3 Flusterstorm to dominate the stack. It's such an in-breed meta thing to do. I would not run 4 Red Blast effect to begin with.

    I don't understand why one would play Spyglass instead of needle. Needle can get cut off by Chalice on 1, that's about it, you don't need to look at opponent's hand to figure out what to name, you should just know once you put your opponent on an archetype.

    White Leyline is not a silver bullet one-of. You have to run multiple to actually enjoy its effect. You might be able to justify as one-of if you run Enlightened Tutor package, maybe.

    I disagree on approach in SB games against Elves. First, you have to respect Choke. Second, you have to respect Nissa. Flusterstorm is not going to help against there. These are all in addition to the usual suspects (play patterns) coming from Elves.

  8. #408

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I have been playing this list with some success, what do you guys think about Nahiri?
    It is really nice/fast as long as you dont draw Emrakul...also extra enchantment hate and somewhat cantrip...
    The Big Boy can be also used to reset your graveyard in a grindy game, with Azcanta, predict or Nahiri.

    1 Arid Mesa
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Island
    2 Plains
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Tundra
    2 Volcanic Island

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    3 Portent
    2 Predict
    4 Force of Will
    2 Counterspell

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Terminus
    1 Council's Judgment

    2 Counterbalance
    2 Search for Azcanta

    3 Snapcaster Mage
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Thorn
    1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    Sideboard:
    1 Moat
    1 Entreat the Angels
    1 Council's Judgment
    2 Disenchant
    3 Flusterstorm
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Snapcaster Mage / Null rod / Engineered explosives

    As you can see I'm currently playing 0 monastery mentor in the 75...Actually im not missing them much...
    What do you guys think about it?
    Cheers

  9. #409

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by sikariok9 View Post
    As you can see I'm currently playing 0 monastery mentor in the 75...Actually im not missing them much...
    What do you guys think about it?
    Cheers
    I think its not good, bc Nahiri needs two slots dedicated to her instead of one with Eta. This dillutes the deck.

    Also i think lacking mentor makes certain matchups worse. Especially elves and everything were u dont have invietability.

    -But dont get me wrong if u are able to faster set up nahiri into emrakul than a mentor with some spells against decks that have a better lategame or outgrind us, then its better.

    Look what i found in search for the rules text of nahiri:

    https://pre00.deviantart.net/3965/th...st-darpuqm.jpg

  10. #410

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Well,
    You can substitute the 2nd slot for Nahiri (emrakul) for the 3rd predict or 3rd counterbalance, it is already a flex slot in my opinion.
    What kind of decks or specific ones have a better lategame than we do? What others can outgrind us?
    In the real lategame Emrakul is insanely strong, since you can shuffle back the whole graveyard, resetting your deck.

    Concerning to monastery mentor, I always see him powerful, but makes you do suboptimal plays to pump him, and I think this is not the game plan. Everybody knows we playing SB mentors, so they can adapt and leave some removal, in which case you end up a) wasting resources to pump him then watching it die, b) waiting too long to drop him some with untapped mana, being almost at the same time thay you would play Nahiri.

    I see SB entreat as a great wincon, since you include him in the MUs where he really shines, being a horrible draw in many others main deck.

    Any more opinions?
    PD: Nice pic XD

  11. #411

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by sikariok9 View Post
    Well,
    You can substitute the 2nd slot for Nahiri (emrakul) for the 3rd predict or 3rd counterbalance, it is already a flex slot in my opinion.
    What kind of decks or specific ones have a better lategame than we do? What others can outgrind us?
    In the real lategame Emrakul is insanely strong, since you can shuffle back the whole graveyard, resetting your deck.

    Concerning to monastery mentor, I always see him powerful, but makes you do suboptimal plays to pump him, and I think this is not the game plan. Everybody knows we playing SB mentors, so they can adapt and leave some removal, in which case you end up a) wasting resources to pump him then watching it die, b) waiting too long to drop him some with untapped mana, being almost at the same time thay you would play Nahiri.

    I see SB entreat as a great wincon, since you include him in the MUs where he really shines, being a horrible draw in many others main deck.

    Any more opinions?
    PD: Nice pic XD
    If you’re playing mentor properly, you should be winning the game with in the next two turns he comes into play. That’s just my experience though.

  12. #412

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Elves is a deck that tries to outgrind us in game 2, with the combination of mystic and symbiote, glimpse of nature and nissa.
    I also can imagine that it is difficult to keep nahiri alive since they have so many critters.
    The mentor is a very good card vs elves.

    Eldrazi is a problematic matchup when they get into late game and keep eye of ugin plus reality smashers going.
    The Eldrazi Post matchup i think is straight unwinnable, without going full beatdown with mentor and entreat.

    I also think it is very difficult to set up nahiri emrakul against every deck that plays burn or creatures. Since in order to pull a win u always have to keep nahiri around for 3 turns.
    I understand that u always can argue that this is no problem since u can reset everything with emrakul but this takes again longer and you have to jump further hoops.

    But you are right to not play mentor in main deck, i also play my mentor in the side since i cant grab it with azcanta.

    I also think that the mentor comes at a relatively low cost in the sb and can be boarded in in many matches as second wincon next to entreat.

  13. #413

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by NimbleJosh View Post
    If you’re playing mentor properly, you should be winning the game with in the next two turns he comes into play. That’s just my experience though.
    This statement is absurd. I think you mean "ideally" instead of properly. I absolutely understand I am nitpicking but Mentor has its risks and a blanket statement like "just play it better" is a cop-out. Without Top cantrips are used a lot earlier to stabilize and that makes Mentor a lot less powerful unless we're already winning the game. In that situation, sure proper play makes Mentor really good. But in other situations where we haven't stabilized and are forced to cast Mentor the card can be very embarrassing. In those situations Mentor was played as best as possible and simply wasn't enough. It's fine to look at other win conditions that are good in those situations.

  14. #414

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by AnziD View Post
    This statement is absurd. I think you mean "ideally" instead of properly. I absolutely understand I am nitpicking but Mentor has its risks and a blanket statement like "just play it better" is a cop-out. Without Top cantrips are used a lot earlier to stabilize and that makes Mentor a lot less powerful unless we're already winning the game. In that situation, sure proper play makes Mentor really good. But in other situations where we haven't stabilized and are forced to cast Mentor the card can be very embarrassing. In those situations Mentor was played as best as possible and simply wasn't enough. It's fine to look at other win conditions that are good in those situations.
    How do You win against a deck like elves.

    I can imagine that the mu is terrible with your deck from the interview

  15. #415

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Magicmarvin View Post
    How do You win against a deck like elves.

    I can imagine that the mu is terrible with your deck from the interview
    Yea its certainly not easy. The plan is still straightforward - shut down Symbiote + Visionary, counter the bombs (Glimpse/Nissa/Choke/...maybe NO but unlikely), and wrath wrath wrath. I'm not sure how to adapt this matchup to the post-ban lists, but the thought of Surgical and Back to Basics did cross my mind. Obviously I am not in love with this kind of strategy, but I've never actually resolved a Surgical versus Elves so I don't even know if its good/bad. Gut says high risk high reward. Between EE/Verdict/Snapcaster/counterspells its not unreasonable to get something in the GY but the variance still exists. Post-ban I have resolved B2B/Moon vs the deck a few times and it was great twice and awful once. The time it was awful was vs reidderrabbit and I think it involved me punting plus him topdecking a Forest. The other two times it was a blowout, once preboard, once postboard (I kept it in because G1 I saw Trop for Leo and Cavern). I'm unsure though, I think land hate might be acceptable because the cheese factor is almost assured to work once, and when it does the games are so favorable. Without the cheese plan its really just grind vs grind, so Predict/Search/Jace are king. I actually think I'm off CB in the post-board games because its just too much variance for too little reward (unlike Surgical which potentially could have a high reward but again, I have no data so I can't really say its good or bad).

  16. #416

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    i always left cb in, its not bad on 1 or 2.

    But i agree cutting cards for sb is hard and cb is a valid cut.
    The only thing im 100% sure taking out is one plains since they have no wasteland.

    Im playing a duplicate of the whitefaces list for reference.

  17. #417

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    As you can see, in the mentorless decklist I provided, there is an unique sideboard card. Yes, It is the moat.
    Perfect to protect Nahiri and Jace from walking creatures, and also happens to be nuts VS the 2 decks you mentioned (elves and eldrazi). Nahiri also exiles choke and sylvan library.

  18. #418
    Site Contributor
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I'm still not sure on the right way to sideboard vs elves honestly.

    I think I like CBs, but there's certainly merit to cutting them. Mentor is great, Flusters are great, I tend to hedge with 1 Disenchant for Choke and consider the second after I see one. I usually cut lands vs combo, but I don't really like it vs elves. Our cantrips are taxed to find relevant interaction the first few turns meaning we have less freedom to use them for lands if needed.

    B2B/Moon is a blowout on a clean board for sure. It's not the kind of thing I like playing for, but it's worth trying more.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  19. #419

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Elves bla bla

    B2B/Moon is a blowout on a clean board for sure. It's not the kind of thing I like playing for, but it's worth trying more.
    Isnt that win more though? If you swept you're already in good shape. If they have the crew assembled it does nothing.
    Just board in your moat and counter gsz. :)

  20. #420
    Site Contributor
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    Isnt that win more though? If you swept you're already in good shape. If they have the crew assembled it does nothing.
    Just board in your moat and counter gsz. :)
    Kind of. As a follow up play it can be devastating, it's quite situational though. Like I said, not really the way I'd approach the matchup, but it's high impact. They can rebuild really fast post terminus, Symbiote + Visionary is basically Griselbrand.

    No way jose will I be playing a Moat. Much too narrow a card these days. And if Eldrazi became massively popular again, I'd probably just play something else.
    Last edited by Whitefaces; 03-05-2018 at 08:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

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