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Thread: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

  1. #61
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by AppallinglyDull View Post
    Sorry, I didn't phrase the first question very well. For Blood Moon I was mostly thinking of the Moon Stompy decks where I want to fetch basic Plains & Island but then can't cast Wear on a Chalice. And I'm also playing Unexpectedly Absent, so I want white mana more than your deck does I guess. Probably overthinking it.

    Regarding Blasts and Delver, I've read a lot of 'sideboarding guides' for Miracles (mostly the Counter-Top version) and it seems like a lot of people don't like to bring them in unless they have a basic Mountain (for example, Philip Schonegger's old Miracles primer at SCG). Maybe it's just a personal preference / risk vs. reward.
    No Problem;)

    The Wear and Tear gets just better in this match up.. just fetch on the Island and plains first if they're not in the Hand (When they not have t1 Moon) and if you have the Island and 1 plains you can just Play any dual/Fetchland for the red mana (Cause of moon) and normaly you can take out the chalice and the moon to the same time;)

    I think it's just personal Preference with pyroblast.. But specially now you have to Play Mentor.. so pyroblast and Mentor are nice together, specially in the delver match up.

  2. #62
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I didn't jump to Miracles until after top ban. I noticed that virtually every miracles deck that ran Entreat the Angels ran a total of 2 copies pre ban.

    I've been switching back and forth between mentor and Entreat. While running Entreat I have felt in many games I wanted two because of discard spells. Anyone else have this problem or notice this?

  3. #63
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I've gone back and forth on SB Mentors, but I'm very happy with 2 MD Entreats. It makes finding one to set up the win easier and often lets you fire off a small Entreat for 2-3 in the midgame to force your opponent to answer it or lose. At worst it's a split card where one half is Mind Twist + Time Walk and the other half is 'win the game'.

  4. #64

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Munchyman View Post
    I didn't jump to Miracles until after top ban. I noticed that virtually every miracles deck that ran Entreat the Angels ran a total of 2 copies pre ban.

    I've been switching back and forth between mentor and Entreat. While running Entreat I have felt in many games I wanted two because of discard spells. Anyone else have this problem or notice this?
    There are two situations here: do you play IRL or MOL? In IRL matches you dont need to win fast, so 1 Entreat is enough. But in MOL matches the things are a bit complicated because of time.

  5. #65
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I play both online and RL. Time is certainly an issue online. I find regardless of my builds. The matches I do lose. At least half of them are due to time.

    I still think that only partially answers my question.

    I do have some really cool tech I've been working on. Well... least I think it cool. Another blast from the past. I'll spoil it before the weekend. It's been really solid for me. And causes a lot of rage quit online.

  6. #66

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Munchyman View Post
    I play both online and RL. Time is certainly an issue online. I find regardless of my builds. The matches I do lose. At least half of them are due to time.

    I still think that only partially answers my question.

    I do have some really cool tech I've been working on. Well... least I think it cool. Another blast from the past. I'll spoil it before the weekend. It's been really solid for me. And causes a lot of rage quit online.
    I've been playing with only 1 Entreat and without any Mentor MB or SB and I have no problem closing the game. Sometimes Snap beats are enough and sometimes Jace can close the game pretty fast. For sure it is harder when you lose the first game, but you can handle that with more experience.

  7. #67
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Munchyman View Post
    I play both online and RL. Time is certainly an issue online. I find regardless of my builds. The matches I do lose. At least half of them are due to time.

    I still think that only partially answers my question.

    I do have some really cool tech I've been working on. Well... least I think it cool. Another blast from the past. I'll spoil it before the weekend. It's been really solid for me. And causes a lot of rage quit online.
    Are you Rockey on MTGO?
    Quote Originally Posted by B88 View Post

    People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

  8. #68
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Nope same handle as on here.

  9. #69

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Apparently Miracles took down a 209-person tournament in Japan a few days ago:

    http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16326&f=LE


    19 LANDS
    1 Arid Mesa
    4 Flooded Strand
    5 Island
    1 Karakas
    2 Plains
    3 Scalding Tarn
    3 Tundra

    7 CREATURES
    3 Monastery Mentor
    4 Snapcaster Mage

    32 INSTANTS and SORC.
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Council's Judgment
    2 Counterspell
    2 Flusterstorm
    3 Force of Will
    4 Ponder
    4 Portent
    4 Predict
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Terminus
    1 Unexpectedly Absent

    2 OTHER SPELLS
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    SIDEBOARD
    1 Cast Out
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Counterbalance
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Force of Will
    1 Hydroblast
    2 Invasive Surgery
    1 Leyline of Sanctity
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Vendilion Clique

    It was a side event at GP Kyoto. Good to see the deck still alive and well. I think this is the biggest win for it thus far?

    Stand-outs:
    - 19 land straight UW with one land being a Karakas.
    - Only three FoWs in the main with one in the board, perhaps suggesting an overly fair expected metagame. He was down a land and still cut a FoW.
    - One-one split between Council's Judgement and Unexpectedly Absent in the main.
    - One-one split of Canonist and Leyline of Sanctity in the board. This guy really pushing to have his cake and eat it too with the 1-1 splits haha. Seriously, a singleton Leyline doesn't seem worth a slot so I'd be curious to hear how often it was relevant.
    - Pithing Needle makes an appearance along with two Invasive Surgeries to stick it to combo. I don't know that there's a way to enable the Delirium naturally without a creature or Jace being killed/countered but it's decent even without. Maybe one could have been Flusterstorm #4?
    EDIT: - Somehow missed Cast Out. This SB seems well-equipped to beat Sneak n Show.

  10. #70

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Congrats to Kobayashi Tatsuumi for their win at the GP Kyoto side event, I think 209 players is the largest paper event Miracles has taken down yet although I'm not certain.

    Would it be most accurate to say that the intellectual heritage of the Miracles deck is principally Alan Comer's Turbo Xerox deck from 1997? It is convenient to say that Miracles (and all control decks) are descendants of Brian Weissman's The Deck from 1994, but The Deck (in the form I've played it in Old School events) has a bunch of really strong sorcery speed spells as well as a ton of mana sources (around 26 with the jewelry, I believe) Turbo Xerox has neither, and instead focuses on cantrips and counterspells with a very low land count.

  11. #71
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by crowe_1 View Post
    Apparently Miracles took down a 209-person tournament in Japan a few days ago:

    http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16326&f=LE


    19 LANDS
    1 Arid Mesa
    4 Flooded Strand
    5 Island
    1 Karakas
    2 Plains
    3 Scalding Tarn
    3 Tundra

    7 CREATURES
    3 Monastery Mentor
    4 Snapcaster Mage

    32 INSTANTS and SORC.
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Council's Judgment
    2 Counterspell
    2 Flusterstorm
    3 Force of Will
    4 Ponder
    4 Portent
    4 Predict
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Terminus
    1 Unexpectedly Absent

    2 OTHER SPELLS
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    SIDEBOARD
    1 Cast Out
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Counterbalance
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Force of Will
    1 Hydroblast
    2 Invasive Surgery
    1 Leyline of Sanctity
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Vendilion Clique

    It was a side event at GP Kyoto. Good to see the deck still alive and well. I think this is the biggest win for it thus far?

    Stand-outs:
    - 19 land straight UW with one land being a Karakas.
    - Only three FoWs in the main with one in the board, perhaps suggesting an overly fair expected metagame. He was down a land and still cut a FoW.
    - One-one split between Council's Judgement and Unexpectedly Absent in the main.
    - One-one split of Canonist and Leyline of Sanctity in the board. This guy really pushing to have his cake and eat it too with the 1-1 splits haha. Seriously, a singleton Leyline doesn't seem worth a slot so I'd be curious to hear how often it was relevant.
    - Pithing Needle makes an appearance along with two Invasive Surgeries to stick it to combo. I don't know that there's a way to enable the Delirium naturally without a creature or Jace being killed/countered but it's decent even without. Maybe one could have been Flusterstorm #4?
    EDIT: - Somehow missed Cast Out. This SB seems well-equipped to beat Sneak n Show.
    Thank you for this! Very interesting decklist! The biggest takeaway is that the Japense Miracles Masters, of whom the winner here is a part of, appear to be working on the deck and playing it again, which is excellent news!
    Quote Originally Posted by B88 View Post

    People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

  12. #72

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Actually if you check the decklists on hareruya website this list is pretty much the "stock" miracles list in Japanese tournaments. Interesting take on the 4 snap 3 mentor creatures package with a split on UA and council. There is also a spicy list with as foretold and mentors that 6-0 a 40 people tournament .

    Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk

  13. #73
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Interesting lists over at Hareruya.
    Why do you think sometimes there is one single Counterbalance in Side?
    What would you bring it in against?

    http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD05584K/

  14. #74

    [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    I've been playing new miracle at my weekly LGS and last wednesday I played it to a 3-1 finnnish.
    I play a rather stock list with 3 jace+ 1 entreat as main wincon. I also run a new Gideon, as a test, in place of the fourth portent. I run a 4/2 split of swords and UA.

    My board is 2 fluster, 2 BtB, 2 cliques, 2 canonists, 2 surgical, 2 disenchant, 2 mentors, 1 BeB.

    I started out beating Grixis delver 2-0 and UR delver 2-1.
    Then had some interesting games versus Reanimator and and Dark depths.

    M3G1 versus Reanimator.
    I keep a hand of FOW and double swords. He reveals chancellor. Plays ritual, thoughtseize me for one sword, therapy himself for the chancellor then reanimate it.
    On two lands I swords the chancellor but I forget that the reveal trigger is still in effect so the spell gets countered and I die shortly after.

    G2 I'm on the play with FOW + counterspell hand. I counter his two first reanimation attempts: Since reaimator started to play Collective brutality I've been countering the reanimation spells instead of binning-spells. When it was just Careful study and Entomb i think that was worth it. Do you guys agree on this? Anyway, I played a clique and then a jace and he scooped.

    G3 He puts in a Sire on turn 1 and I have to discard my entire hand. Luckily I draw a land and and when I'm at 7 I topdeck portent (and he forgets his chancellor trigger), look at three card and shuffles.In his upkeek I draw a mentor that hits the bin at his EOT. Now I'm at 1 and I slam a topdecked swords to his sire. I have trouble rebulding as I canot fetch nor fow. I get a clique into play, chosing not to take his Daze eventhough I hold a fow and are at five lands. Next turn he goes for reanimate and i hard cast FOW that gets dazed, he puts griselbrand to play. He draws 7 and passes. I land my Gideon and "mazes" his Griselbrand. From the fresh cards he exhumes a chancellor (which also gets me my mentor back), and animate dead another chancellor. I play a cantrip for a token and goes for the emblem with gideon. He swings with the chancellors at gideon and Grisel at me, i chump with clique. I draw a jace that will get countered by the chancellors and eventhough it will pump my army of monks I can not present lethal.

    Now, I did side out terminus for countermagic and surgical. On the draw, however, sometimes countermagic doesn't do the trick (due to chancellor). Do you think that terminus is worth keeping in on the draw, and if so how do you board?

    Next game I face turbo depths.I know he's on it so I make sure I keep hands with a swords.
    First games we slowly build upout lands and I terminus away a safekeeper and then a hexmage.
    Eventually he starts going for the combo but I have swords each time and he's out of cards but at 58 life.
    I entreat for 3 and beats him to death with a snapcaster in hand should he present another 20/20.

    I board out a land, a portent, a predict and 2 terminus (he made marit lage during my eld step each time).
    I boarded in 2 surgical, 2 flusterstorm and 1 mentor.

    Next game he goes for a turn 2 marit lae i swords it. he tries to surgical my StP i fluster it. I surgical his DD and the game's over.

    This matchup felt very easy being able to deal with the token using maindeck cards. It felt a bit wierd not running needle in the board however, do you guys run it?

    Entreat felt very strong over all. I consider running 2 instead of the Gideon.

  15. #75

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    it might be a paradox, but now.. isn't it time for Null Rod to go mainstream?

  16. #76
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Arschmann View Post
    Would it be most accurate to say that the intellectual heritage of the Miracles deck is principally Alan Comer's Turbo Xerox deck from 1997?
    No offense, but who cares?

  17. #77

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by klaus View Post
    No offense, but who cares?
    To be fair, if it hadn't been for the Hatfields and their love for Portent and going deep on the Turbo Xerox idea, I doubt we would have found Portent as a way to revitalize the archetype. Also, we should keep in mind that they were the players to popularize Top and Counterbalance in Legacy first, before it became a force in Extended.

    Then again, testing is good enough I suppose. That guy just introduced an awesome idea in the form of running 19 lands.

  18. #78

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by zyprian View Post
    Interesting lists over at Hareruya.
    Why do you think sometimes there is one single Counterbalance in Side?
    What would you bring it in against?

    http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD05584K/
    It's probably decent at stalling Elves and ANT? The Azorius Charm kind of has me screatching my head. Could be Unexpectedly Absent. I guess it has upsides in the mana cost and the cycle ability (enables Terminus) but the versatility of Absent to hit any nonland permanent is more useful IMO, at least at face value. Has anyone here tried Azorius Charm?

  19. #79
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    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by crowe_1 View Post
    It's probably decent at stalling Elves and ANT? The Azorius Charm kind of has me screatching my head. Could be Unexpectedly Absent. I guess it has upsides in the mana cost and the cycle ability (enables Terminus) but the versatility of Absent to hit any nonland permanent is more useful IMO, at least at face value. Has anyone here tried Azorius Charm?
    Mostly the lifelink which is broken with Mentor.

  20. #80

    Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control

    Had a top 8 run today with the deck. First time I ever played Miracles and went with the stock UW list. Too drained to do a report, but I won vs Eldrazi twice, once vs Stoneblade, lost vs Grixis Delver, and drew against the mirror.

    I messed up my top 8 vs Dredge. I may have overboarded against it, and mana screwed myself in game 3. Any ideas in dealing with Dredge?

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