Yeah, right now I'm playing UW because of the terrific mana-base. If I would move on to UWr I would certainly put that card into consideration.Originally Posted by twndomn
I did som testing versus a friend who plays DnT yesterday and came up with some rather untuitive result.
My original plan was to board out 3 counterspells, 3 FoW (since there's vial and cavern of souls), which is rather intuitive. I brought in 2 mentors (who are more or less a moat), 2 cliques (to take away Equipments, control his drawphase and not being taxed by Thalia) and 2 disenchant (for revoker, vial and equipments). However, what i felt is that the deck becomes way to clunky with these cards in. New Miracle is a great deck when you're at five plus mana, but is very weak in the early game since you run so much air. You need to be able to cast your cantrips to find your business cards. In the face of wasteland, port and Thalia your early game is very taxed and Death and taxes can be very explosive. Like, a turn 2 Thalia off plains and port can be very problematic. A turn 4 Thalia off a vial @ 2 is not all that devastating since by then you have had 3 turns of cantripping, developed your mana and set up your draws. So what i did was remove the cliques and put back 2 FoWs. this may seem very bad versus a deck who can play around counters as much as Death and taxes but hear me out. If he plays a turn 2 Thalia I wanna force it to bridge to the mid-game. This deck if any can recover from the card disadvantage. If he plays it off vial sure, I cant force it, but by then the Thalia is not that dangerous anymore. It's sort of the same logic I've had keeping force in playing BUG versus Eldrazi , when that deck was a thing. I he plays a turn 2 TKS I need to force it or he will take my strix. If he plays it turn 3 off a cavern that's OK because then strix is already in play.
Also, from my experience, post board Death and taxes bring in more targets for force of will: Coucils judgement and possibly needle for jace, and Gideon, AOZ. Plus if you keep the board clean they may start to hard cast their equipments.
TLDR: Keeping FoW in versus Death and taxes felt better than boarding it out. It buys you time to develop your mana. When you have enough mana you will win. What do you guys say?
Agree, I leave in 3 Force of Wills.
Currently I sideboard
-2 Counterspell
-2 Flusterstorm
-1 Force of Will
+1 Disenchant
+2 Monastery Mentor
+2 Containment Priest
Not super thrilled with bringing the Priests in, but they're OK at stopping vial and some Flickerwisp shenanigans.
In UW version your best cards are:
- terminus in primis
- monastery mentor
- plow + snap into plow
- engineered explosives
- unexpectedly absent is not bad
- jace after terminus can be gg
+ from sideboard
- another explosives
- containment priest
- disenchant + sometimes snap into disenchant is not bad
- vendilion clique
- gideon, ally of zendikar
- council's judgment
You can't counter all his cards.
You need to setup Terminus in the right time and enter in control mode or play (and defend) a faster Mentor to take the board.
EE is pretty underwhelming in strict UW.
I've always been very underwhelmed by Clique vs DnT. I don't have them in my sideboard at the moment, but I wouldn't bring them in if I did.
Great that you came to the same conclusion.
This deck is certrainly gaining on me. I have been playing it in between leagues ever since I knew I was set for the finals and didn't care for wins and losses.
Now I'm considering running it the next season.
What league is this you're talking about?
After the Sensei's ban, the cards who give us trouble have converted mana cost 0-1 and sometimes 2.
In a meta dominated by Grixis Delver, Chalice decks and with a good presence of Elves, Engineered Explosives give us a very flexible slot who can used in 2 colors list too.
Obv in a 3 colors list, EE is better then in a 2 colors list, but in a 2 colors list EE is not weak as he seems.
Eh, just the local league @ the LGS in Stockholm. They run league every week and three tournaments each season. Then finals for the three tournament winners and top 13 of the league.
hello people. What is your sideboardplan vs burn/UR delver? Im running the UW shell with 3 mentor and 3 snapcasters. I tried multiple hydroblasts, but that was not that effective. Im now trying 2 stoneforge and 1 batterskull, allong with counterbalances (im sold on these) and 1 hydroblast
Current sideboard:
1 back to basics
1 disenchant
2 surgicals
2 counterbalances
2 invasive surgery
2 stoneforge mystic
1 batterskull
1 hydroblast
1 v clique
1 cannonist
1 containment priest
Eldrazi stompy list: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/noloam
sideboard guide can be found on page 84
For those who haven't seen it yet, an interesting article on 'new Miracles' by Rich Cali: https://www.flipsidegaming.com/blogs...e-new-metagame
Also, this is a very strange card from the new Commander decks. Apparently the rules will also change so that tokens phasing out does not cause them to disappear like 'blinking' them does, so this should still work with monk or angel tokens on board. Not sure it deserves a slot, but it has utility against Storm, Elves, Sneak and Show (phased-out lands can't be annihilated!), as well as against board wipes like Toxic Deluge.
Teferi's Protection | 2W
Instant
Until your next turn, your life total can't change and you have protection from everything.
All permanents you control phase out.
(While they are phased out, they're treated as though they don't exist.
They phase in before you untap during your untap step.)
Exile Teferi's Protection.
1-3 last night.
Won as expected versus grixis delver. Games were close and fun, 2-1
Then it started going downhill. 0-2 versus lands. I made some mistakes but mu feels unfavoravle. Maybe a rest in peace is warrented here, or red splash for blood moon/from the ashes.
Then MUD 1-2. Mu is actually ok, i've faced it twice and won last time. Mistakes were made g3 though, where i jammed mentor instead of holding up StP for blightsteel.
Then finally 0-2 versus grixis pile. I mean that deck was designed to beat old miracle and has crazy CA. Admittedly he was the better controlplayer all along were I was the one jamming threats then loosing the counterwar, then unable to fight over him playing jace. Scooped to jace @ 12 both games. More practice needed.
Next week I'm jamming mentor miracles, lets see how that goes.
I've found UR Delver to be really tough, Burn even harder. I play Leylines and they help with these matchup quite a bit, hopefully those CBs will be similar for you. Please let us know how they go, I'm tempted to try them again.
Otherwise I feel that the SfM package might be a bit slow, though you may be able bridge the gap with enough countermagic for it to do its job.
Nice article, thanks for sharing.
Tough breaks.
Lands is really hard, if you don't have dedicated sb hate (like B2B or Blood Moon) even postboard games will be tough. G1 is heavily in their favour. MUD I've found to be favourable too, mostly thanks to UA, sometimes they get you. And yeah, Grixis can be tough too, I was struggling with the matchup until trying out Gideon, AoZ, he's amazing vs these midrange piles if you get a chance to try it.
Yeah I did run B2B but felt it didn't do enough. He could keep recurring GQ thanks to mox and basic forest. B2B doesn't really stop the combo from happening either.
I did side out 3 counterspells as I mostly want to be able to counter spells turn 1, and 4 Terminus since they need to be set up at instant speed or they're useless. I put in 2 flusterstorms for countering gamle and rotations, 2 B2B, 2 mentors and 1 disenchant.
But yeah that match-up is horrible. Maybe a Sanctum Prelate in the board could tilt it?
Thanks for the advice on big Gideon, i will ty him out at some point.
I have som Projects I'm going to test, one is miracle mentor. Another, much more spicy, is BANT miracle with counterbalance and mirris guile. The idea is that mirri would set you up to "always" countering 1-drops (or 2 drops versus certain decks) making counterbalance a one-sided chalice - and turning brainstorms into counterspells. It can also help to find teminus and keep it floating if need be. Also should work well with predict. Green doesn't give much more unfortunaly. I wouldn't mention this horrendous spice unless counterbalance was mentioned above.
im testing counterbalance for quite a while sideboard. Since the japanese dude played 1 side and ended up winning a 200 man tournament. I think it is great already in UW, with the amount of cantrips you are playing. It also has some nice interaction with predict
Eldrazi stompy list: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/noloam
sideboard guide can be found on page 84
http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD08498W/ this guy top 4ed a 70 man tournament with 3cb maindeck.
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I have a few Lands players (either RG, RUG, or Turbo Depths) in my local meta, and after playing against them multiple times over the past few weeks, am really questioning whether non-basic hate enchantments are even the right approach. They are expecting it, are able to play around it (basic Forest, Mox Diamond), and their answers to it are more or less unstoppable (Krosan Grip, Abrupt Decay). I imagine there are times when an early Blood Moon can lead to a win, but in my (albeit limited) experience thus far it simply hasn't been a very strong or reliable plan.
Which, to beat a dead horse, leads me to question whether Blood Moon is worth the slots, or whether they could be better spent on other cards. I might try a basic Mountain (to support Pyroblasts against Delver) and another Disenchant effect (maybe EE) in place of the two Blood Moons I've been running and see how that feels. Really not sure where that leaves the Lands matchups though. It feels pretty rough, all in all.
Sanctum Prelate is an interesting idea. Meddling Mage might be a little more one-sided, but obviously can't shut down Life from the Loam and Punishing Fire in one card -- though it also doesn't shut off Disenchants, Predicts, etc. at the same time.
* * *
Since we're on the subject of lands, a mini-report from last night. Pretty poor showing, though I feel like I got some pretty bad matchups. Still, lots of room to improve.
0-2 vs. Burn: Even when I was able to Terminus away three creatures, counter a couple spells, and resolve a Mentor, I had taken too much damage, drew two lands in a row, and died to Exquisite Firecraft + Fireblast. This feels very bad, and I'm not entirely sure what to do here (apart from adding Counterbalance back into the 75, perhaps, and maybe not even then).
1-1-1 vs. Tezzerator: Game 1, I missed finding an Unexpectedly Absent to deal with a Tezzeret ready to -4 and drain me for 22, I think. Game 2 I won by keeping him off Ensnaring Bridge and storming off with Monk tokens despite two Chalices on 1. Game 3 he had two Chalices on 2 and two Ensnaring Bridges, I had a Jace, and he had a Thopter-Sword combo assembled, but we went to turns and neither of us could win.
0-2 vs. Turbo Depths: Game 1 I failed to find any meaningful pressure before he found a Life from the Loam. I gave it a couple more turns and then conceded to save time. Game 2, I was able to Surgical the Life from the Loam, but had to fight through two Tireless Trackers attacking for 5+, and after running out of resources was overwhelmed by a large Manabond + Stage-Depths combo. In game 2, I had a turn 3/4 Blood Moon, and he had two Krosan Grips in hand.
0-2 vs. RUG Lands: In both games, I kept one-land hands with multiple cantrips and was able to find lands 2 and 3 without much trouble, but as a result couldn't search for answers. In game 2 I had a Blood Moon but had to play a Volcanic earlier, and it got Wasted before I could cast the Blood Moon. Maybe a mistake on my part, and I needed to hold the Volc until I was ready to play the Blood Moon. But at the same time, he had a Forest and Mox Diamond active, and an Engineered Explosives which he cast for 3 anyway (which, given his board, he could have done even under a resolved Blood Moon). In both games, he found a Tabernacle before I could pressure him, and between his Wastelands and Ports, I was off paying for Tabernacle in the upkeep or casting Jace in the main phase. No real avenue to victory that I could see.
Last edited by AppallinglyDull; 08-11-2017 at 02:14 PM.
I've always preferred From the Ashes for the purposes of screwing over lands. Its work is undone over time by loam, not instantly and inevitably by grip.
Prelate only stops non creatures, you can still Snapcaster. She's strong vs lands. If you stop molten vortex or seismic assault and have an answer for Marit Lage, they're basically locked.
Ah, quite right. Not used to playing against a Prelate not set to 1. :\
I like the idea of From the Ashes as well. It also works with Surgical Extraction. I did try a game 3 against my RUG lands opponent treating Blood Moons as From the Ashes just for testing, but never had the chance to cast one, so no insight from that game. Perhaps I'll try one or two next week.
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