wondering if anyone has tried a singleton alhammarret's archive?
the deck is mostly running cantrips while brainstorm and jace produce an unforgiving amount of card draw. just wondering.
-rob
Been playing the soothsaying list for a bit online these past few days. Went 3-3 in the challenge today, and a 4-1 league followed by a current 2-0 right now.
I've been very underwhelmed with soothsaying, I'm not convinced that they're neccessarily better than say a pierce/snare and another predict (and likely trimming a Counterbalance for another pierce/snare). CB has overperformed and been just as insane as it was before. The issue with soothsaying though is that the mana is way too intensive, I've always been choking with hitting what I need when I need to then dig aggressively. How are you playing the soothsaying activations?
However, while I did test out a singleton Entreat, I do feel Mentor is actually better here, makes it easier to worry about floating not as many things - I was never able to setup the Entreats well at all, and then it was just a dead card in hand, when else I would have been looking at a mentor and a hand of permission, which is fantastic.
I went 4-3 at the event I went to on Saturday, small breakdown of my matches:
Decklist: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/749811
Rd 1: 2-0 Bug Control
Game 1: My opponent wasn't sure what was going on, but some early counterspells and swords took care of early threats. Eventually I played Jace and my opponent played Lilliana. Lilliana eventually ulted and my op said I can keep either Jace or everything else, I kept Jace and ulte'd a couple of turns later to win
Game 2: I was able to counter Lilliana this time and felt great doing it. Op wouldn't let my Jace stick this time, then played his own Jace, but we got a soothsaying and a Counterbalance down and eventually Entreated for lethal
Rd 2: 0-2 infect
Game 1: I killed everything except Inkmoth and then died to Inkmoth
Game 2: I kept a hand that looked like it could dig for the answers I needed and didn't find them, then died to inkmoth.
Rd 3: 2-1 Elves
Well timed terminus picked up games 1 and 3, won with Jace game 1 and Entreat Game 3
Rd 4: 2-1 Burn,
Game 1: I exhausted my opponent's resources, slammed Jace, and then +2'd my way to victory with countermagic up
Game 2: I had leyline but he got tons of creatures and quickly ran me over
Game 3: I killed the creatures, drew into leyline, then Jace'd for the win
Side Note: Thank you burn player for giving me plenty of time to eat, first time that I had at least 10 minutes to eat
Rd 5: 1-0-1 UR Planeswalkers?
I wasn't entirely sure what my opponent's deck was but here's how it went:
Game 1: I started with a great hand and opened with a Turn 1 portent targeting my op, I saw 2 Magus of the Moons and a Blood Moon, chuckled since my hand had basics and a single fetch in it, then left it (top to bottom) as Magus, Magus, Blood Moon. My opponent then brainstormed on my end step and laughed with me. I took care of both Magus of the Moons, and my opponent drew into Chandra, then Jace. I countered his Jace, put Chandra on top of his library in response to a fetch and then played Jace and won.
Game 2: I sided in 1 copy of Hydroblast for the Chandra, which my opponent got to see with an early surgical. Trinisphere hit the board which slow'd the game to a hault. I played Unexpectedly Absent on a different problematic card and it ended up getting surgical'd away so I couldn't flash it back later. Hydroblast took care of Chandra and then we had a stalled game that went to turns, and drew me the win
Rd 6: 1-2 UR Delver
Game 1: I had a decent hand, but my opponent just put down threat after threat and I couldn't keep up. Terminus would have been fantastic but never found it
Game 2: I found an early terminus after my opponent over-extended, resolved Jace, and my opponent scooped to save time.
Game 3: Repeat of game 1, except I found the terminus and it got countered.
Rd 7: 1-2 Bant Deathblade
I can't actually remember the order of the games, but some notable things I learned in this match:
1. Unexpectedly Absent into Predict is awesome, but my opponent cracked a fetch in response to Predict to stop card advantage.
2. Removing Batterskull and Jitte is what picked me up the 1 game I won
3. When you play Back to Basics, you probably shouldn't give them mana off of Jace (He played Pithing Needle off the land I gave him)
Overall I thought the deck performed great. I think had I made better mulligan decisions against Infect and played better against Bant Deathblade I might have been able to win those matches. I won almost every game I soothsaying'd for 5+. Counterbalance also performed well (excluding me forgetting my trigger twice that day) without soothsaying, and was definitely worth the slot in the deck. I need some more practice with the deck before my next tournament though, but was happy with the results it put up.
After some testing what's the general impression from everyone on counterbalance and soothsaying (not necessarily together)? Counterbalance is great as always as a control tool and doubling as a mentor defence but on soothsaying I'm a bit sceptical. It's true that in the endgame soothsaying for 4 or more is usually really really good (if you are in a normal boardstate or not completely hellbent you are in a great shape to win) but in the early and mid-game is just not great. What I want to understand is if soothsaying is worth playing or it's simply better to play 4 portent and some number of counterbalance.
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So far I've liked it only played it once at my locals so far which isn't really great for it since we have people still running a play set of decay. Soothsaying came down in one of my games indexed for 7 and then I was able to efficiently use my mana to get through a pocket of cantrips and lands. Finding the cards I needed to win the game. Overall the night wasnt great lost a couple games due to not drawing lands bit that's magic.
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I tried it at a LGS last night and it was great, looking forward to playing it more. Two SS three CB felt like a sweet spot off the bat.
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
I feel like both cards are pretty bad in early (CB can do wonder but still, it doesn't help at keeping the board clean) so I think that one SS and two CB could be enough with all the way we have to dig in it.
Hi guyz,
(Before anything sorry for my english level)
I'm testing since 4months only the match up vs grixis delver I played at least 200match versus.
I reccorded some match on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVel...YhmGSOWIYyxSGB
If you want more match just ask me, if you have tips or u see missplays I will be happy to discuss about them.
I tried plenty list, with entreat the angels, scroll rack (great with cb, terminus, hand full of lands. But in my meta there is a lot of Kcommand MD), daze, BTB MD, surgical MD.. And finally.
My current list:
// 60 Deck principal
// 5 Creature
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Monastery Mentor
// 2 Enchantment
2 Counterbalance
// 19 Instant
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Counterspell
4 Predict
1 Flusterstorm
// 20 Land
1 Arid Mesa
1 Plains
3 Island
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Mountain
1 Misty Rainforest
// 3 Planeswalker
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// 11 Sorcery
4 Terminus
4 Ponder
3 Portent
// 15 Réserve
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
// 2 Creature
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Izzet Staticaster
// 9 Instant
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
// 2 Sorcery
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
// 1 Jetons
// 1 Creature
1 Monk
My current SB plan vs grixis delver: -4 predict -3 portent -2 counterspell -1 jace +3 pyroblast +1 red elemental blast +1 flusterstorm +1 pyroclasm +1 izzet staticaster +2 engineered explosives +1 council's judgement
If you think that I should side in other way please ask me.
CU
PS: sorry for the first video the quality is lower
Goldensun, thank you for the information. I definitely respect your diligent approach to analyzing this matchup! I must admit that this was one I loved to see prior to Top getting banned, but feel like I'm on the wrong side of now.
I've been testing with a 1 of Dragonlord Ojutai. He tends to be a blowout against most decks
After trying Mentor, Gideon and Entreat a bunch, I've found the angels to be one of the best ways to fight the 4c menace. Since we're trading resources so heavily, Mentor isn't always reliable, Gideon can be taken down with chip shots from Strix, Snaps and bolt/kommand (though he's still very good). Entreat is very hard for them to interact with, it's also a good way to fight Punishing Fire decks, or any fair decks for that matter. Setting it up really isn't too difficult in a deck with this many cantrips and brainstorms. We can't reliably play it EOT anymore, but let's face it, that was totally busted. Playing it 'naturally' is still very strong.
This is the list I've been happy with recently. I'd really like to get the 4th Portent in there, but struggling on the cut.
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Ponder
3 Portent
4 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Predict
2 Counterspell
2 Flusterstorm
2 Unexpectedly Absent
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Island
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Arid Mesa
SB:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Blood Moon
1 Disenchant
1 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Izzet Staticaster
What about the new "ghost quarter" for ixalan? It can help to remove a problematic land without decrease our lands in the field. Against 3c and 4c, is basicly a sinkhole in a landslot.
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It's not really an effect this deck is looking for, the option to play Wasteland is always there, or Blood Moon after board. The cost of playing a land that taps for colourless is very high in Miracles, so until you activate it it doesn't cast very much. Even basic plains feels very bad in the deck.
@Whitefaces:
As far as I remember you played a strict UW list without red-splash after the Ban. Since Alakazimdk and others seem to do well without the splash at the moment I am considering trying UW too. I`ve always seen Blasts as essential before top&balance left the format, but right now I am not sure anymore - even in the face of 4C Controls rising in power.
What made you change your mind about the splash?
Hey, new to the forums as well as this deck in legacy but after reviewing the sideboard guide for the U/W Miracles list I have a question! Monastery Mentor looks to be sided in for a large percentage of these popular match ups. Is this due to decks sideing out removal while we side into threats or perhaps something I overlooked entirely?
Anders (Alakazim) has said lately that he wants to move towards the red splash if only for blasts. Mostly because Leyline is not that great anymore so that frees up the SB slots needed.
Totally useless/nonsense slot.
The purpose of the deck do not need lands control and, in some trouble matchup like Lands or Eldrazi, Blood Moon is a better permanent who win alone.
FOREWORD: I play Mentor Miracle version with Daze.
Last week I've play in a tournament trying without the splash and lose only by 4c.
I try many sideboard version, principally because Leyline fo Sanctity is a strong card for now (he save us from discard spells in primis, who give many problems with the 4c control who can flashback Hymn to Tourach) but i feel some slots problems to add her into a splashed list..principally because some RED slots are very good.
After a lot of trying, i think (this is a different vision from mine of two months ago) who Blood Moon is a real strong card in Miracle Mentor. And with few Abrupt Decay then before, the opponent need to choose among Mentor/Moon/Other (Balance?).
This make difficult cut out the slot for 3 Leyline of Sanctity.
Anyway: the RED splash, who can seems not essential in this meta evaluate the rise of the Black (who can give more value to Flusterstorm (vs Hymn or Seize or...Kolaghan), anyway assume relevance vs two/three iperstrong cards: Snapcaster Mage imho in primis, Jace and Force of Will (remember who our opponent keep Will vs Miracle).
Red splash is very relevant imho.
Hello all,
I'm fairly new to the deck, picked up miracles a few months ago when the portent versions were just starting to show up post top-ban. Now new-miracles seems to have changed quite a bit with little consensus on a stock build. Outside of maybe twice I've played a different version of this deck every time I've played it. Has there been any consensus on which version is best suited for the current metagame?
Soothsaying usage seems to have dropped off a bit, I briefly tried it, but was not a huge fan of the clunky-ness of an early soothsaying. Some people seem to have come full circle and gone back to playing the harder-control of 3 jace, no mentor, with entreat & jace as the win conditions. Haven't seen too many results with the 4 mentor/daze builds.
At the time there is no stock list for Miracle because the deck changing trying different solutions.
Counterbalance/Soothsaying list not affirm itself and Gideon seems very good.
Many player try Entreat (I'm not sure about it) without Counterbalance.
I play Miracle Mentor with Daze and, like many player I suppose, try some different solution because of consistency of 4c Control who dominate the meta with recursion of Snapcaster/Kolaghan,
Imho the deck is good, not easy to dominate obv, but suffer some too easy interaction of the tier deck of the format (and Lands who is not in Deck to Beat section but is tier 1).
The discard spells now are strong and we, without Sensei, suffer more then before this kind of spells.
Vs Miracle, Snap who flashback Hymn seem strong and many time there is not recoverable.
Coincidentally mentor w/ daze has been my favorite version thus far. I've now had a decent amount of experience both playing miracles against hymn decks and playing hymn against miracles and it is a very brutal card to resolve against miracles. Gideon I have yet to try, but seems promising. The issue I had with entreat was drawing it very early in games and then later having a hard time getting a good set-up for it, but that is likely due to some relative inexperience with the deck. I've only played lands once thus far and the match-up seems kinda brutal, I feel like entreat is likely pretty good in this match-up.
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