[Deck] Czech Pile

[DemolitionColorScheme]

friend sent me this its a 81 player turny Dutch open series I think with a few Piles games during coverage and finals.
Think it was few days ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c..._commentators/

I was the Czech Pile player (Michel de Jong) going against Tom Neven, who was playing Soldier Stompy (completely foiled up). I'd say that's an interesting deck which you don't come across often!

Timestamp: 06:07:10

Some misplays from me due to time and camera pressure; that Fatal Push off of that Usea with that Fetch in hand hurt my soul and Snapping back that Abrupt Decay instead of that Push (which in my mind didn't exist due to shame, haha) wasn't that bright, knowing he was playing Challice, Suppression Field and Winter Orb. Game was locked anyways with that Jace out, so just went fast-mode to close things out and won anyways.

Went 4-3 in the end due to drawing nothing but land vs. B/R Reanimator when we were 1-1. Managed to stick it out thanks to hardcasting a FoW and having 2 Flusterstorms, but sadly never drawing any business. Felt I could've gone 5-2.

[FFreak]

Just asking , why not play pile with full set of bolts :) ?

[DemolitionColorScheme]

Just asking , why not play pile with full set of bolts :) ?

Because most versions run on UB. Red is basically just a splash in comparison. I feel a 4-of of Bolt is better suited in tempo decks like Grixis Delver.

[Misersoneof]

Just asking , why not play pile with full set of bolts :) ?

Because most versions run on UB. Red is basically just a splash in comparison. I feel a 4-of of Bolt is better suited in tempo decks like Grixis Delver.

Some decks run more volcs/badlands than others but I think the real answer here is what bolt is in our deck to do. In Czech pile bolt is a cheap source of removal for creatures that can also be used against planeswalkers. Without Bolt, our deck has a hell of a time fighting a resolved planeswalker pre-board and post-board if the walker is non-blue.

On the other side of this coin, Grixis delver runs 4 bolts because it is a cheap source of removal and its aggressive game plan makes bolt into a late game finisher. Pile isn't as aggressive so bolt seldom becomes a late game finisher for us. We also don't necessarily need finishers since Pile excels in the late game with 2-for-1s and topdecks. Instead we run K-command, which fills the role of bolts number 3 and 4 but also has utility in the form of discard, artifact removal and creature recycling.

[DemolitionColorScheme]

To add: When the popularity of Pile was rising, list like D&T stacked up on Mirran Crusader - even going to a full playset, which Bolt was an optional out to. My list features 2 Volcs / 1 Badlands as well and I prefer packing 2 Bolts. Sometimes, in the percentage game, a Bolt does close out a game whereas a Push wouldn't.

[WThomas]

Any consideration to running LofV or Dack Fayden in the 60?

Or is it much of the same eg: discard, creature removal (LotV), and destroy / steal artifacts, draw (Dack)?

[Misersoneof]

To add: When the popularity of Pile was rising, list like D&T stacked up on Mirran Crusader - even going to a full playset, which Bolt was an optional out to. My list features 2 Volcs / 1 Badlands as well and I prefer packing 2 Bolts. Sometimes, in the percentage game, a Bolt does close out a game whereas a Push wouldn't.

You are correct. There are always going to be some creatures that bolt deals with better than fatal push and vice versa. I'd rather have a fatal push against a Thought-Knot Seer or a Tarmogoyf. Part of why pile is so strong is the diversity of cards we have access to.

I also am not saying that bolt cannot be a late game finisher for us but in most cases it is not. I too have used it to win a game. I faced down a mono black pox opponent that ran bitterblossom at my last tournament. To win I had to do my best burn impression and bolt snap bolted him so he died in his own upkeep while I was at 2 life. Usually however, this is not the case.

Any consideration to running LofV or Dack Fayden in the 60?

Or is it much of the same eg: discard, creature removal (LotV), and destroy / steal artifacts, draw (Dack)?

Lilliana of the Veil has seen play in some lists but most of her abilities are not what we need. Her +1 takes out the opponents' worst card and ours. Since our deck is based around 2-for-1s, our worst card is probably better than their worst card. Her -2 is sorcery speed and that can be too slow against opponents making Marit Lage.

Dack Fayden, on the other hand, has seen play but he requires cards that can be returned to your hand for card advantage. This is why some builds have been including punishing fire and grove of the burnwillows to return it to the hand. Here is a video of the list being played.

The problem with this strategy IMO has been that grove forces the deck to go heavier with green and run less black. Additionally, punishing fire is 2 mana which can make it too slow or easily dazed. In a meta filled with fast delvers and Marit Lage tokens on turn 2, black is better. Black gives us Fatal Push, Diabolic Edict, Marsh Casualties and Toxic Deluge.

[xix]

Lilliana of the Veil has seen play in some lists but most of her abilities are not what we need. Her +1 takes out the opponents' worst card and ours. Since our deck is based around 2-for-1s, our worst card is probably better than their worst card. Her -2 is sorcery speed and that can be too slow against opponents making Marit Lage.

Dack Fayden, on the other hand, has seen play but he requires cards that can be returned to your hand for card advantage. This is why some builds have been including punishing fire and grove of the burnwillows to return it to the hand. Here is a video of the list being played.

I would watch this stream for the Dack list instead, mengucci was having fun and self-admitting didn't understand the real power of rise//fall usage. And this stream has like weeks of gameplay footage :)
https://www.twitch.tv/stryfo

I agree with most of what you said though, veil is much better in the dack lists and the pfire lists, because you can just discard pfire while they discard better cards. I would play last hope if you weren't on the pfire plan 10/10

[Misersoneof]

I would watch this stream for the Dack list instead, mengucci was having fun and self-admitting didn't understand the real power of rise//fall usage. And this stream has like weeks of gameplay footage :)
https://www.twitch.tv/stryfo

Thanks for the link. I'll definitely have to check it out. I still think that going into Dack + P Fire isn't where this deck wants to be but I'm willing to be surprised.

I agree with you about the Mengucci video but I also think that he has trouble with legacy in general. I watch his legacy series when I run out of other content and I have seen him make various plays that have left me scratching my head.

[Julian23]

Here's an invite link to the Czech Pile Discord server: https://discord.gg/8X3J5Uh

My opponent at GP Madrid last weekend asked me whether I knew about a Czech Pile discord and I told him I'd post it here if I found it.

[beta]

Here's an invite link to the Czech Pile Discord server: https://discord.gg/8X3J5Uh

My opponent at GP Madrid last weekend asked me whether I knew about a Czech Pile discord and I told him I'd post it here if I found it.

Just a pity that chat group is not that active compared to the rest. I wonder where did Tomas Mar and the others go to talk about strategies.

[Misersoneof]

Just a pity that chat group is not that active compared to the rest. I wonder where did Tomas Mar and the others go to talk about strategies.

This forum can be pretty inactive as well. haha..

All kidding aside, I have been thinking about having an unearth or 2 in the main to help with the grindier matchups. It seems so useful since if we can't use it, it at least cycles for a new card. Has anyone on here been playing with them? What do you guys think about it?

[WThomas]

This forum can be pretty inactive as well. haha..

All kidding aside, I have been thinking about having an unearth or 2 in the main to help with the grindier matchups. It seems so useful since if we can't use it, it at least cycles for a new card. Has anyone on here been playing with them? What do you guys think about it?

Wouldn't Unearth just make our good MU's better?

I play in a heavy D+T meta and have been testing 2 bolts main and really enjoying the flexibility. Has anyone else tried upping the bolt count?

[Misersoneof]

Wouldn't Unearth just make our good MU's better?

Which matchups are you talking about? I think Unearth is great against aggro and grindy matchups. Against delver or eldrazi you can rebuy creatures that have fallen in combat or to removal. The only decks I wouldn't necessarily want it against are those that play Plow or Chalice but even then you can cycle it. It seems pretty flexible, but maybe it's just too narrow. I've been trying to think of what I would cut for 1 of them. What do you think? Even if you wouldn't play it yourself, what would you cut?

I play in a heavy D+T meta and have been testing 2 bolts main and really enjoying the flexibility. Has anyone else tried upping the bolt count?

As far as I can tell, 2 bolts have somewhat become the norm. Every list I've looked at in the past month has run at least 2. If you're talking about going up to 3 or 4 then I suggest you scroll up a little bit to post #302 where we talk about why we don't usually run the full 4. In a D&T heavy meta, you might find it valuable to have more, but with 3 snapcaster, you can always snap one back when you need more. My overall feeling with D&T is that it has lost a lot of it's power and is not as strong as it once was. How has the matchup been for you overall?

[WThomas]

Which matchups are you talking about? I think Unearth is great against aggro and grindy matchups. Against delver or eldrazi you can rebuy creatures that have fallen in combat or to removal. The only decks I wouldn't necessarily want it against are those that play Plow or Chalice but even then you can cycle it. It seems pretty flexible, but maybe it's just too narrow. I've been trying to think of what I would cut for 1 of them. What do you think? Even if you wouldn't play it yourself, what would you cut?

Perhaps that was a little of an overstatement on my behalf. I meant, it's probably a little too cute, it takes a little bit of work to set up and I think i would rather it be another removal spell. Have you found it to be not the case?

As far as I can tell, 2 bolts have somewhat become the norm. Every list I've looked at in the past month has run at least 2. If you're talking about going up to 3 or 4 then I suggest you scroll up a little bit to post #302 where we talk about why we don't usually run the full 4. In a D&T heavy meta, you might find it valuable to have more, but with 3 snapcaster, you can always snap one back when you need more. My overall feeling with D&T is that it has lost a lot of it's power and is not as strong as it once was. How has the matchup been for you overall?

Yeah, i dont think 4 bolts is where you want to be, but hadn't seen much literature on more than 1 bolt. I'm only new to the format so orginally it was difficult (i was also on 1 bolt), however with more knowledge and the additional bolt (perhaps a crutch?) it has felt much more manageable 55-60%.

[Misersoneof]

Perhaps that was a little of an overstatement on my behalf. I meant, it's probably a little too cute, it takes a little bit of work to set up and I think i would rather it be another removal spell. Have you found it to be not the case?


Yeah, i dont think 4 bolts is where you want to be, but hadn't seen much literature on more than 1 bolt. I'm only new to the format so orginally it was difficult (i was also on 1 bolt), however with more knowledge and the additional bolt (perhaps a crutch?) it has felt much more manageable 55-60%.

From my experience, unearth can be great in the mirror and against Grixis delver. It's a positive tempo spell that allows you to put a more expensive or valuable creature into play for equal or less mana. I've used it to put a strix into play against an early aggressive start and used it to bring a snapcaster back to flashback removal. However, with all that being said, I think the meta has moved away from where this type of play can be helpful. Currently Death and Taxes is a Deck to Beat and Unearth is really bad against them because our creatures get outclassed by Thalia and Mom and will get Plowed.

With the rise of Death and Taxes, we may also see a move to add more bolts in the main. Bolt is overall better against D&T because it can hit Mirran Crusader and is cheap for Thalia. A lot of people on the Discord Server have been high on adding more bolts.

If Death and Taxes becomes more prevalent then I will use the Unearth flex slot I have for a liliana the last hope. She has a similar effect but also can wipe out a board of small-ish creatures.

[WThomas]

From my experience, unearth can be great in the mirror and against Grixis delver. It's a positive tempo spell that allows you to put a more expensive or valuable creature into play for equal or less mana. I've used it to put a strix into play against an early aggressive start and used it to bring a snapcaster back to flashback removal. However, with all that being said, I think the meta has moved away from where this type of play can be helpful. Currently Death and Taxes is a Deck to Beat and Unearth is really bad against them because our creatures get outclassed by Thalia and Mom and will get Plowed.

With the rise of Death and Taxes, we may also see a move to add more bolts in the main. Bolt is overall better against D&T because it can hit Mirran Crusader and is cheap for Thalia. A lot of people on the Discord Server have been high on adding more bolts.

If Death and Taxes becomes more prevalent then I will use the Unearth flex slot I have for a liliana the last hope. She has a similar effect but also can wipe out a board of small-ish creatures.

I certainly see your point, I currently have 1-2 flex spots, so I may give it a whirl. As for LtLH, I can confirm, it's gas. Just sometimes it's too slow.


Has anyone tried the no basics list, I like the idea of being able to waste opposing decks to slow them down early/mid and letting our superior end game do the talking as unopposed as possible through the early - mid turns.

[Misersoneof]

Has anyone tried the no basics list, I like the idea of being able to waste opposing decks to slow them down early/mid and letting our superior end game do the talking as unopposed as possible through the early - mid turns.

When I first started playing the deck I ran 2 Wasteland / no basics. I occasionally found that I was weak to things like blood moon which could sometimes win games on the spot. However, I think the best reason to play a couple of basics recently is delver.

If you look at the Grixis Delver Primer, their plan against us is to keep our manabase in check while they apply pressure. Their best strategy is to waste us aggressively, pierce or daze our removal of their threat or daze/remove our strixes. This is one of the reasons I am not a huge fan of this move to add more bolts to the main btw. Due to blood moon, we never really want to run a basic mountain. Having a basic swamp gives us access to Deathrite and Fatal Push without opening ourselves to a death-knell blood moon or a wasteland. If you have access to multiple lands in your opener, then it is sometimes right to get the Swamp right away.

[beta]

Another MKM and another victory for czech pile!

http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/cov...e-2018-legacy/

Think by playing additional discards sorta helped his combo matchups all the way to Top 8. What strikes me is the singleton library in the main, cutting down to 3 ponder and FOW.

[NegatorITA]

Another MKM and another victory for czech pile!

http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/cov...e-2018-legacy/

Think by playing additional discards sorta helped his combo matchups all the way to Top 8. What strikes me is the singleton library in the main, cutting down to 3 ponder and FOW.

It s clearly set for grindy matches and the vextra discard is for early interaction indeed, since force is card disadvantage, and that list is all about making the most out of everything ( like 3 Bolt to ensure mirran crusaders and opponent profile doesn't ruin your party)
I like it a lot, just I know I can't run less than 4 forces in the main.